Joe Flacco: Tough Talk

[The Raven]

4 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

So Ryan, Rivers and Stafford are mobile? How so?

Because they don't have the weight of a Super Bowl ring weighing them down.

AYYYOOOOO

[Tru11]

2 hours ago, terps85 said:

Your definition of a better player isn't the same as mine. Literally the whole point of what I'm trying to say is the first part of what I quoted. The whole saying of "quarterbacks making other players around them better" is what is not true. Flacco can't make his line play better or receivers create separation, much like Mike Wallace couldn't magically give Bridgewater or Tannehill the ability the throw the ball downfield. 

More production doesn't mean better player. Would you take Golden Tate over Odell Beckham because he had more catches last year?

flacco can put them in a better position to just that.

its called pre snap adjustments.

if the call is a slant route but the defender is lining to the inside should of the receiver , then by simply changing the route , he can put the receiver in a better position to gain seperation.

it really does not require the receiver to run faster or gain any physical skills tbh.

besides that he is a 9 year vet and SB MVP.

pretty sure he can use his experience to tell receivers such as perriman and young for instance what to do in certain situations.
for instance on when to continue the route when its zone or when to settle down.

he does not have to do it but he can and if the players take it by heart they can become better players.

heck he could try and explain to maxx how he and pitta have such a good report.
it can only make maxx become a better player.

for the record im not saying joe is not doing these things , im just using them as examples on how a QB can make others better.

[Steve0x]

This title of thread is backwards. Maybe its Harbaugh should be talking tough to Flacco.

[terps85]

39 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

flacco can put them in a better position to just that.

its called pre snap adjustments.

if the call is a slant route but the defender is lining to the inside should of the receiver , then by simply changing the route , he can put the receiver in a better position to gain seperation.

it really does not require the receiver to run faster or gain any physical skills tbh.

besides that he is a 9 year vet and SB MVP.

pretty sure he can use his experience to tell receivers such as perriman and young for instance what to do in certain situations.
for instance on when to continue the route when its zone or when to settle down.

he does not have to do it but he can and if the players take it by heart they can become better players.

heck he could try and explain to maxx how he and pitta have such a good report.
it can only make maxx become a better player.

for the record im not saying joe is not doing these things , im just using them as examples on how a QB can make others better.

You just are not reading what I'm writing man.  Flacco can call the right protection and routes, but he cannot execute for everyone else.  He can do all of that pre-snap stuff (which is Flacco playing well btw, not the receivers) with a line and receiving corps consisting of people that post on this board and the results would obviously not be good.  Is Flacco all of a sudden a worse player because those around him are not doing their job?

Edited October 27, 2016 by terps85

[flynismo]

1 hour ago, The Raven said:

Because they don't have the weight of a Super Bowl ring weighing them down.

AYYYOOOOO

[Tru11]

53 minutes ago, terps85 said:

You just are not reading what I'm writing man.  Flacco can call the right protection and routes, but he cannot execute for everyone else.  He can do all of that pre-snap stuff (which is Flacco playing well btw, not the receivers) with a line and receiving corps consisting of people that post on this board and the results would obviously not be good.  Is Flacco all of a sudden a worse player because those around him are not doing their job?

where did i say he should execute for everyone else?

 

[terps85]

17 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

where did i say he should execute for everyone else?

 

That's the whole basis of thinking that players can make other players better, is it not?

[VermontRaven]

4 minutes ago, terps85 said:

  19 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

where did i say he should execute for everyone else?

5 minutes ago, terps85 said:

That's the whole basis of thinking that players can make other players better, is it not?

Not necessarily.  It means 1 player can help put the other player in a better position to succeed. 

For example, if a WR gets separation, it puts the QB in a better position to make a play---However, the QB still has to execute--find the right read to go to that WR and make a good throw, etc. 

OR vice versa--  If a QB has pinpoint accuracy and puts the ball in a position where the WR can make a play--again it puts the WR in position to make the play--however, he still has to execute by making the catch.

 

[terps85]

4 minutes ago, VermontRaven said:

Not necessarily.  It means 1 player can help put the other player in a better position to succeed. 

For example, if a WR gets separation, it puts the QB in a better position to make a play---However, the QB still has to execute--find the right read to go to that WR and make a good throw, etc. 

OR vice versa--  If a QB has pinpoint accuracy and puts the ball in a position where the WR can make a play--again it puts the WR in position to make the play--however, he still has to execute by making the catch.

 

I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not.  The "not necessarily" leads me to believe you are not, but everything that followed said otherwise.

Flacco cannot magically make the other players around him better at their job, or execute.  He can put the blockers in the best possible situation or the receivers in the best possible situation, but if they are not any good, the results will be bad.  I really don't understand what's so hard about this.

[gtalk12]

3 hours ago, The Raven said:

Because they don't have the weight of a Super Bowl ring weighing them down.

AYYYOOOOO

lmaaaaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Tru11]

40 minutes ago, terps85 said:

That's the whole basis of thinking that players can make other players better, is it not?

that is YOUR basis.

 

 

[jimmypowder]

On 10/24/2016 at 9:28 PM, sflegend89 said:

Joe Flacco: 12th most sacked QB, sacked 14 times, 5 TD's, 6 INT's, 75.4 QBR

Andrew Luck: 1st most sacked QB, sacked 25 times, 14 TD's, 4 INT's, 98.3 QBR

Matt Ryan: Tied for 3rd most sacked QB, sacked 18 times, 16 TD's, 4 INT's, 113.6 QBR

Matthew Stafford: Tied for 3rd most sacked QB, sacked 18 times, 15 TD's, 4 INT's, 105.7 QBR

Philip Rivers: 6th most sacked QB, Sacked 17 times, 13 TD'S, 4 INT's, 102.4 QBR

Facts:

- Joe Flacco has the 29th worst QBR in the NFL 

- Andrew Luck has been sacked NEARLY TWICE as much as Joe Flacco yet is dominating him in every statistical category, Colts have what many feel is worst OL in football

- Only other QB's besides Flacco in entire NFL with negative TD-INT ratio are Case Keenum and Ryan Fitzpatrick

 

Enough excuses for Joe, I'm a long time supporter of his even through rough patches but this is different. This year so far he's not elite... not average... not even below average, he's amongst the very worst starting QB's in the entire NFL. Everything from his mechanics, to his accuracy, to his overall passing stats tell us so. Guys like Rivers have comparable weapons/OL and are blowing him out of the water.

 

This is a very good post and the stats don't lie. Joe is underperforming even though the offensive line stinks. 

He needs to take responsibility and start playing like a good QB. 

Right now .he stinks. 

 

 

[FlocksGottaFeed]

7 hours ago, jimmypowder said:

This is a very good post and the stats don't lie. Joe is underperforming even though the offensive line stinks. 

He needs to take responsibility and start playing like a good QB. 

Right now .he stinks. 

 

 

Very true "stats don't lie.", but stats can sometimes be used to sell a personal point of view that gives only the narrative someone feels more strongly about. This simply questions - which stats are used to argue which narrative?

Based on the same data that the poster used - what's the narrative if these stats were not completely left-out?

Out of the 10 most sacked QBs this season:

• Joe Flacco has most total passing attempts - 308
• Joe Flacco has the longest completion - 70 yds.
• Joe Flacco has the most completions - 189
• There's no more than 1 win or less that separates these teams

https://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/sacks

This is not saying that things are great so far this season (just the opposite), but it definitely shows that several considerations can be evaluated and added to the lack of great QB play (i.e. - In the total team stats you don't see). This is just 'Real Talk'. Whether anyone supports Flacco or not you would have to admit there are several known and unknown factors in every scenario when it's related to 'team' sports.

Edited October 28, 2016 by FlocksGottaFeed
typo - sell a personal point

[Ravensfan23]

I think it's tough to judge because of the different style of offensive play. Not saying that Joe has played better under either OC, but I think if Marty is the OC from day one that Joe's numbers might be a little better over the first 3 games when the oline was healthy and playing well enough. 

In terms of the numbers of sacks an pressure, I think the biggest difference in Flacco and those other QB is that Joe is coming off a season ending knee injury. A injury that he really came back before scheduled from. I think the play of the oline and the knee is clearly effecting Joe, but he's gonna have to get over it because far too many plays are being left on the field. 

[flynismo]

1 hour ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

Very true "stats don't lie."

Three types of lies:  1. Lies  2. Damn lies  3. Statistics

[ravensnj]

On 10/26/2016 at 3:08 PM, hn68wb4 said:

In Flacco's career we have never had an OC that wasn't fired before coming here - but that doesn't really mean much, 4 out of 5 were head coaches before coming here (Mornhinweg was a HC at one point in his career, just not right before coming here), head coaches don't leave their job to be OCs so they literally had to be fired to come here. The two that left for promotions - Kubiak and Caldwell - had long successful head coaching jobs before we hired them, a couple poor seasons and they got scapegoated (moreso Kubiak than Caldwell but I'd still say it applies to him as well). It's not exactly common for coaches to up and leave a team willingly unless it's a promotion so most coordinators were fired before getting their jobs if they were a coordinator or head coach beforehand.

I'm looking for new blood at OC. Enough with the old time ball group guys, they seem played out. It's time we look for up and comers in someone else's organization or scout-out an active brilliant college coach. Active in a sense, of more motion, fast paced, yet high percentage play calling. Then we need to find some real receivers, fast shifty and ball hungry. Those that are proven, not a 34 college career catch individual.

[OUravensfan]

Flacco's not the problem, watch the Bengals game, what a joke

[BmoreBird22]

7 minutes ago, OUravensfan said:

Flacco's not the problem, watch the Bengals game, what a joke

Cousins and Dalton are two of the league's more overrated quarterbacks.

[BmoreBird22]

I think the really encouraging thing for the Ravens is that IF Joe returns to a normal level of play, the Ravens will probably begin to consistently win against good teams. 

[flynismo]

4 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Cousins and Dalton are two of the league's more overrated quarterbacks.

Are they even rated? lol

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, flynismo said:

Are they even rated? lol

If you talk to Redskins Nation, Cousins is the second coming of Joe Theisman

[PurpleCity5]

Joe Flacco has the most passing attempts in the league and least TD passes. He needs to step up and lit a fire under his play. Joe is honestly playing considerably worse this year than last. Actually, through seven weeks Joe has been playing worse this year, than his 2013 season. How does that figure considering the awful group of receivers and an atrocious offensive line? 

[Cillmatic]

12 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Joe Flacco has the most passing attempts in the league and least TD passes. He needs to step up and lit a fire under his play. Joe is honestly playing considerably worse this year than last. Actually, through seven weeks Joe has been playing worse this year, than his 2013 season. How does that figure considering the awful group of receivers and an atrocious offensive line? 

Joe's always been a guy who, during the regular season, needs some good players around him. I think this WR core is the worst we've had since 2013. O-lines been terrible too.

[PurpleCity5]

I would love for Cleveland to be one and done with Hue Jackson. Even if it means changing our offensive system I would love to have him here. Jackson has a poor team in Cleveland but they're 0-7 and he's made some poor choices as their "GM". I wouldn't consider him safe by a long shot. It would help Joe a ton here. 

Edited October 30, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[52520Andrew]

On 10/24/2016 at 9:28 PM, sflegend89 said:

- Andrew Luck has been sacked NEARLY TWICE as much as Joe Flacco yet is dominating him in every statistical category, Colts have what many feel is worst OL in football

 

I guess many people have not seen Seattle play this season, by far the worst O-line in the NFL.

Luck is really doing well this year but struggled last year behind a bad O-line and if you look in Seattle, that line is killing a good offense otherwise. I do think Flacco has underperformed this year but I also don't think it is a coincidence that his best lines(2012 playoffs and 2014) have brought him the most success. We like to run the ball and take deep shots, it suits Flacco best here. You need a good O-line to do both effectively. 

[PurpleCity5]

1 hour ago, Cillmatic said:

Joe's always been a guy who, during the regular season, needs some good players around him. I think this WR core is the worst we've had since 2013. O-lines been terrible too.

I'll have to agree, it feels like this team wants Joe to be the guy who can just take do great things with less so they can focus elsewhere. He needs help. They feel like, "well, this guy is a good player but Joe can turn him into an elite WR". That's just not going to happen. Very few guys like Brady, Peyton, Brees and Rodgers are capable, but the team just expects too much out of Joe. I'm not saying Joe isn't capable of great things, but at the moment you can't pile a lot on him, it's just not a load he can shoulder. 

I think last years group of WR is worse minus Steve Smith Sr., Aiken was great last year but what did you have after that? Gilmore was serviceable but would disappear time to time. 

Protection should be much better for Joe once OL returns to health, with that said, Joe needs to play better. 

Edited October 30, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[52520Andrew]

8 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I would love for Cleveland to be one and done with Hue Jackson. Even if it means changing our offensive system I would love to have him here. Jackson has a poor team in Cleveland but they're 0-7 and he's made some poor choices as their "GM". I wouldn't consider him safe by a long shot. It would help Joe a ton here. 

That would be quite fun. Plus you have familiarity with Hue having been our QB coach in 2008 and 2009

[PurpleCity5]

11 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

That would be quite fun. Plus you have familiarity with Hue having been our QB coach in 2008 and 2009

It would be great, but we also needs some weapons here. I would love to have a guy like Alshon here, especially considering that no one is paying him Julio Jones type money. Sometimes you need to take risks. 

[PurpleCity5]

LOL, also, does Joe has anyone of Julio, T.Y or Marvin caliber here? 

Edited October 30, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[Cillmatic]

49 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I would love for Cleveland to be one and done with Hue Jackson. Even if it means changing our offensive system I would love to have him here. Jackson has a poor team in Cleveland but they're 0-7 and he's made some poor choices as their "GM". I wouldn't consider him safe by a long shot. It would help Joe a ton here. 

What bad choices has he made? I think the Browns are gonna give him more time.