Joe Flacco: Tough Talk

[The Raven]

36 minutes ago, flynismo said:

And..........who exactly is paying Thomas' contract in that situation anyway? lol

Joe should pay it. He's overpaid. Take a paycut or be traded. We're losing and it's Joe's fault. All his fault. Too much money.

[allblackraven]

34 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Joe should pay it. He's overpaid. Take a paycut or be traded. We're losing and it's Joe's fault. All his fault. Too much money.

Either that or all those McDonalds messed with his mechanics

[ALPHA]

8 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

And Joe said:

	Jeff Zrebiec (@jeffzrebiecsun)
10/26/16, 12:17 PM Flacco: "I'm obviously not playing well enough. We're not a good offense right now and that starts with the quarterback."

Is this the accountability everyone has been demanding?

Yes, thats the right place to start. I still believe in him, but he needs to get out of his funk.

[ellicottraven]

3 hours ago, usmccharles said:

This is an 'entitlement' issue.  He doesn't owe us anything, he didn't have to come out and say what everyone knows.   Joe knows he isn't playing up to par and is going to do what he can to fix it, as every single player should that isn't playing up to their potential.  What are you expecting, him to breakdown every drill that he does and how hes going to do it differently.  Im a huge Joe supporter, but im not making any excuses for him, he is playing like garbage, but does that mean I deserve an explanation?  No, why would it. 

This is not an 'entitlement issue'. Yes he owes an explanation as to why his performance has been poor this year. Is it the injury? Is it his mechanics that are flawed? Is it the constant rotation of OCs that is the issue? Or is it something else? I am not certainly expecting him to break down his drills, his dinner plans, etc.! But, I feel it is fair to expect since we are going into the bye this season and he's not performed well in any game this season and the fact that 7 games is a half season's worth sample size, he ought to be able to tell us where the issues are even if in broad terms. As an example I feel my mechanics are not where they need to be because of my knee as I feel I am subconsciously favoring it. Or my accuracy is way off this season because my timing is off and I am not stepping into my throws or something like that. And to cure that, I'm working diligently with my QB coach (oh wait...) to work on these issues and I think this bye week is a good time for me to work on these issues. This isn't me expecting him to break down every drill because like you nobody cares about specifics. I would like to know why he is underperforming in broad terms or tell us I don't know what's wrong. We're still trying to fiugre it out would suffice as well.

[usmccharles]

8 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

This is not an 'entitlement issue'. Yes he owes an explanation as to why his performance has been poor this year. Is it the injury? Is it his mechanics that are flawed? Is it the constant rotation of OCs that is the issue? Or is it something else? I am not certainly expecting him to break down his drills, his dinner plans, etc.! But, I feel it is fair to expect since we are going into the bye this season and he's not performed well in any game this season and the fact that 7 games is a half season's worth sample size, he ought to be able to tell us where the issues are even if in broad terms. As an example I feel my mechanics are not where they need to be because of my knee as I feel I am subconsciously favoring it. Or my accuracy is way off this season because my timing is off and I am not stepping into my throws or something like that. And to cure that, I'm working diligently with my QB coach (oh wait...) to work on these issues and I think this bye week is a good time for me to work on these issues. This isn't me expecting him to break down every drill because like you nobody cares about specifics. I would like to know why he is underperforming in broad terms or tell us I don't know what's wrong. We're still trying to fiugre it out would suffice as well.

Well good luck with that.  So you want him to come out and throw people under the bus? Then others are going to come out and get on him for doing that blaming his OCs and not taking ownership.  He said hes not playing good...Clearly hes going to try to fix that as are the coaches, WRs, RBs, OL....nobody wants to play bad.  Some of these things your wanting to hear remind me of Madden being an announcer:  Well, if the other team scores more points, they win.  Sounds about right. 

[Halshayeji]

2 hours ago, The Raven said:

It is moronic to trade a high pick for a player that maybe won't be playing in 2-3 years. Completely moronic. Ideally, when you trade a pick, you're getting a guy that will have the same time of service to a team that the draft pick would have had. Second rounders usually get three years AT LEAST.

Trading a pick that's potentially a multi-year starter for a two year rental is idiotic. We suck because we aren't drafting well. Mortgaging the future for the now is a stupid way to build a team.

So the Broncos are morons last year when they wanted him? And all the teams that want him now are morons? Say you don't think it's a good idea to mortgage the future but it's moronic to assume a player will retire in 2 years and it's moronic to assume a high draft pick will make a pro bowl when Thomas is almost guaranteed to make one. It's stupid to claim a late second or a third rounder next year is our future when our previous second and third rounders are struggling to make the field and some have been cut. It's a win now league. I don't think it's "stupid" to protect your 120 million dollar investment at all costs and also improve a running game that's stalling. Just my two cents

[ALPHA]

Maybe we should bring back Zorn.

[Halshayeji]

3 hours ago, flynismo said:

And..........who exactly is paying Thomas' contract in that situation anyway? lol

Send me the check lol

[Tru11]

6 hours ago, terps85 said:

You don't become a more talented player based on the players around you. Does Steve Smith now run a faster 40 time because he's playing Flacco instead of some of the scrubs they had in Carolina?

can you quote where i said anything about becoming more talented tnx to others?

im talking about being better in relation to your teammates.

wallace is better player with someone like flacco or big ben because they play to his strengths.
tannehill did not.

flacco is a better player when the o-line gives him time.
flacco is horrible when he has less then a 2nd.

 

[Tru11]

5 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Ok I get you, I interpreted it a little different.  Its crazy how most of us were so excited about our WR corps, me included...and this is what we get. 

actually you actually got what im saying.

never said others can make a player more talented once lol.

[Tru11]

4 hours ago, flynismo said:

Agreed. He played well in this system. He also played up to his potential since guys like Ngata and Pryce kept him from getting double teamed.

interesting.

is playing up to your potential the same/better/worse then not playing up to your potental?

[Tru11]

6 hours ago, allblackraven said:

Of course he is, he just played like crap vs Jets, 2nd half in particular. Perhaps his ability was compromised by knee brace and funny shoulder but he still is the same Joe Flacco.

wow.

so the o-line, receivers and such had/have no effect on him being good/bad?

you are actually saying his entire performance was all on him and him alone and has actually been this way from day 1?

dang you are the first that goes that far lol

 

[Ravensfan23]

2 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

This is not an 'entitlement issue'. Yes he owes an explanation as to why his performance has been poor this year. Is it the injury? Is it his mechanics that are flawed? Is it the constant rotation of OCs that is the issue? Or is it something else? I am not certainly expecting him to break down his drills, his dinner plans, etc.! But, I feel it is fair to expect since we are going into the bye this season and he's not performed well in any game this season and the fact that 7 games is a half season's worth sample size, he ought to be able to tell us where the issues are even if in broad terms. As an example I feel my mechanics are not where they need to be because of my knee as I feel I am subconsciously favoring it. Or my accuracy is way off this season because my timing is off and I am not stepping into my throws or something like that. And to cure that, I'm working diligently with my QB coach (oh wait...) to work on these issues and I think this bye week is a good time for me to work on these issues. This isn't me expecting him to break down every drill because like you nobody cares about specifics. I would like to know why he is underperforming in broad terms or tell us I don't know what's wrong. We're still trying to fiugre it out would suffice as well.

Do you think none of these things are happening? Why does Flacco need to say publicly that he's working on fixing it for us to get an idea that it's being worked on?

Also what you are asking for will never happen because it'd give other teams a competitive advantage. Headline, Flacco say Knee is still a mental hurdle, why wouldn't team not fall down around his feet throughout the course of a game? They wouldn't even have to hit him because it'd be a penalty or maybe they might take one 15 yard penalty just to get him thinking about his knee instead of his assignments. 

If you go back and watch his post game presser, everything you're asking for he said. Things like, we're just not playing well as an offense right now, the timing was off on this play. We didn't have enough time on that play. Oh well if that one run wasn't called back, we'd probably had a better chance of running the ball. I misread this defense. We need to run the ball and avoid 3rd down and longs, we need to score more TDs, In his presser today he spoke about precision and consistency were the biggest issues. He talked about how close the offense was but it's 1 player messing up on anything given play that stops a drive from leading to a TD, he spoke about how important it is to have a healthy oline. He spoke about how Marty will be about to use the Bye weeks to allow things to settle down around him and go back to breakdown the last 7 games and see what worked. He basically told you exactly what they are working one. 

 

[allblackraven]

1 hour ago, Tru11 said:

wow.

so the o-line, receivers and such had/have no effect on him being good/bad?

you are actually saying his entire performance was all on him and him alone and has actually been this way from day 1?

dang you are the first that goes that far lol

 

Don't wow, read. I replied to usmccharles on the same, only with Prescott as an example, since he mentioned him. 

I'm not absolving any other part of the Ravens offense of guilt but those guys around him DO NOT make Flacco better or worse player, more or less talented. They help him produce or contribute to worse production.

It is very simple stuff. Stop forcing your agenda, move on. 

[Rav'n Maniac]

9 hours ago, ALPHA said:

Maybe we should bring back Zorn.

Or maybe hire Michael Gervais, renowned sports psychologist.

[Rav'n Maniac]

5 hours ago, allblackraven said:

Don't wow, read. I replied to usmccharles on the same, only with Prescott as an example, since he mentioned him. 

I'm not absolving any other part of the Ravens offense of guilt but those guys around him DO NOT make Flacco better or worse player, more or less talented. They help him produce or contribute to worse production.

It is very simple stuff. Stop forcing your agenda, move on. 

But they can and do affect his stats which is the only thing many fans look at. It is a big reason why they think that way. 

[flynismo]

7 hours ago, allblackraven said:

Don't wow, read. I replied to usmccharles on the same, only with Prescott as an example, since he mentioned him. 

I'm not absolving any other part of the Ravens offense of guilt but those guys around him DO NOT make Flacco better or worse player, more or less talented. They help him produce or contribute to worse production.

It is very simple stuff. Stop forcing your agenda, move on. 

I just don't understand why this is so hard to grasp. I really don't. Having Mike Wallace does not add 10 yards to Flacco's arm strength or help Flacco scan the field any better. It does not mean that Wallace is less likely to drop a pass that bounces off his hands, or has more strength to prevent getting jammed at the line or knocked off his route just because Flacco is his QB. It simply means Wallace is more likely to get open and catch the pass thrown to him than say, Aiken. That results in more production for Flacco, and also allows Flacco to play to his strength of throwing deep passes -- i.e. allowing Flacco to play to his potential.

Why. Is. This. So. Hard.

[flynismo]

9 hours ago, Tru11 said:

interesting.

is playing up to your potential the same/better/worse then not playing up to your potental?

Obviously better.

That does not mean X player not holding back Y player from playing up to Y's potential makes either X or Y a better player. It means that Y player can do his job without hinderance. If Flacco overthrows Wallace, did he just make Wallace a lesser player? Or did he get in the way of Wallace doing his job? If Wallace drops a pass from Flacco, is Flacco any less of a player, or did Wallace get in the way of Flacco from doing his job? 

 

Edited October 27, 2016 by flynismo

[gtalk12]

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 0:39 AM, CalvinSmoke said:

Flacco has gotten almost all of his OC's fired man...

Cam C isn't in the league anymore, Jim C was a stand in for Cam, Kubiak left, and now we have Marc T....are you sure it's Flacco?

[terps85]

9 hours ago, Tru11 said:

can you quote where i said anything about becoming more talented tnx to others?

im talking about being better in relation to your teammates.

wallace is better player with someone like flacco or big ben because they play to his strengths.
tannehill did not.

flacco is a better player when the o-line gives him time.
flacco is horrible when he has less then a 2nd.

 

Your definition of a better player isn't the same as mine. Literally the whole point of what I'm trying to say is the first part of what I quoted. The whole saying of "quarterbacks making other players around them better" is what is not true. Flacco can't make his line play better or receivers create separation, much like Mike Wallace couldn't magically give Bridgewater or Tannehill the ability the throw the ball downfield. 

More production doesn't mean better player. Would you take Golden Tate over Odell Beckham because he had more catches last year?

[The Raven]

11 hours ago, Halshayeji said:

So the Broncos are morons last year when they wanted him? And all the teams that want him now are morons? Say you don't think it's a good idea to mortgage the future but it's moronic to assume a player will retire in 2 years and it's moronic to assume a high draft pick will make a pro bowl when Thomas is almost guaranteed to make one. It's stupid to claim a late second or a third rounder next year is our future when our previous second and third rounders are struggling to make the field and some have been cut. It's a win now league. I don't think it's "stupid" to protect your 120 million dollar investment at all costs and also improve a running game that's stalling. Just my two cents

It is absolutely stupid to trade the future for today, especially when our LT will be back for our next game..... I'd sooner trade for a center or guard than left tackle. at least we have two capable guys to play there. LT hasn't been the issue, even with Lewis in.

[Halshayeji]

1 minute ago, The Raven said:

It is absolutely stupid to trade the future for today, especially when our LT will be back for our next game..... I'd sooner trade for a center or guard than left tackle. at least we have two capable guys to play there. LT hasn't been the issue, even with Lewis in.

You do know that LT is the hardest position on the line right...

a good LT can play anywhere on the line. A good LG can't necessarily play LT or RT. So theoretically if we bring in a LT he could play RT and Wagner moves inside or he can play LT and Staley moves inside. The whole idea is to strengthen your line and a good LT is guaranteed to improve your line. I'm not saying bench Stanley 

[flynismo]

2 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

You do know that LT is the hardest position on the line right...

a good LT can play anywhere on the line. A good LG can't necessarily play LT or RT. So theoretically if we bring in a LT he could play RT and Wagner moves inside or he can play LT and Staley moves inside. The whole idea is to strengthen your line and a good LT is guaranteed to improve your line. I'm not saying bench Stanley 

These things are all true, but it's missing the point of his argument. How much will you pay for a LT? Now compare that to how much you'd pay for a center, or an OG. It's a massive difference, and for the players being mentioned, these are guys that will only be around for a year or two...that's what he is getting at.

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

You do know that LT is the hardest position on the line right...

a good LT can play anywhere on the line. A good LG can't necessarily play LT or RT. So theoretically if we bring in a LT he could play RT and Wagner moves inside or he can play LT and Staley moves inside. The whole idea is to strengthen your line and a good LT is guaranteed to improve your line. I'm not saying bench Stanley 

Yes but the idea is to strengthen your line for the present AND FUTURE. Its not just about strengthening your line this week so you can win next weeks game.

Arguably the single biggest benefit for any team in this league is having a good player who doesn't get paid like a good player. 

[The Raven]

45 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

You do know that LT is the hardest position on the line right...

a good LT can play anywhere on the line. A good LG can't necessarily play LT or RT. So theoretically if we bring in a LT he could play RT and Wagner moves inside or he can play LT and Staley moves inside. The whole idea is to strengthen your line and a good LT is guaranteed to improve your line. I'm not saying bench Stanley 

You have gone completely out of the way to miss the point.

Alex Lewis is serviceable at LT. Ronnie Stanley is good at LT. John Urschel is terrible at LG. Jeremy Zuttah is terrible at center. LT is not the only position on the line, and it's probably one of our strongest positions.

Now that I've put it into laymens terms, do you understand? Or did you watch The Blindside so many times that you think LT is the only position that matters on the line?

Also, a good LT can't necessarily play LG, RG, C, or RT, but frequently, a good interior guy can play LG, C, RG, and/or RT. Left tackles are frequently the softest guys on the line with the worst run blocking ability. They are often finesse players that can't maul.

If you don't want to bench Stanley, then why do something so stupid like trading a 2nd for a sure starter at LT? That lacks sound logic.

Edited October 27, 2016 by The Raven

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, The Raven said:

You have gone completely out of the way to miss the point.

Alex Lewis is serviceable at LT. Ronnie Stanley is good at LT.

John Urschel is terrible at LG. Jeremy Zuttah is terrible at center. 

LT is not the only position on the line, and it's probably one of our strongest positions.

Now that I've put it into laymens terms, do you understand? Or did you watch The Blindside so many times that you think LT is the only position that matters on the line?

I think what he is saying is you trade for somebody like Joe Thomas, you put them at LT, and you move Stanley inside to LG. His opinion is that a good LT can play well anywhere on the line, which I disagree with.

He thinks a line that looks like Thomas/Stanley/Zuttah/Yanda/Wagner is much improved.

I personally wouldn't want to send Lewis back to the bench, nor would I want to move my franchise LT inside through no fault of his own, which is what he his advocating.

[The Raven]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

I think what he is saying is you trade for somebody like Joe Thomas, you put them at LT, and you move Stanley inside to LG. His opinion is that a good LT can play well anywhere on the line, which I disagree with.

He thinks a line that looks like Thomas/Stanley/Zuttah/Yanda/Wagner is much improved.

I personally wouldn't want to send Lewis back to the bench, nor would I want to move my franchise LT inside through no fault of his own, which is what he his advocating.

Yeah, that's dumb, especially since LT isn't the problem. Trade for a LG or a C if we trade for anyone. Those are the positions that are holding us back.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, The Raven said:

Yeah, that's dumb, especially since LT isn't the problem. Trade for a LG or a C if we trade for anyone. Those are the positions that are holding us back.

Agreed. Have no interest in trading for a LT, especially one who's due like $8M for the next two years.

Doesn't really matter because the FO clearly isn't interested in doing it.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 9:28 PM, sflegend89 said:

Joe Flacco: 12th most sacked QB, sacked 14 times, 5 TD's, 6 INT's, 75.4 QBR

Andrew Luck: 1st most sacked QB, sacked 25 times, 14 TD's, 4 INT's, 98.3 QBR

Matt Ryan: Tied for 3rd most sacked QB, sacked 18 times, 16 TD's, 4 INT's, 113.6 QBR

Matthew Stafford: Tied for 3rd most sacked QB, sacked 18 times, 15 TD's, 4 INT's, 105.7 QBR

Philip Rivers: 6th most sacked QB, Sacked 17 times, 13 TD'S, 4 INT's, 102.4 QBR

Facts:

- Joe Flacco has the 29th worst QBR in the NFL 

- Andrew Luck has been sacked NEARLY TWICE as much as Joe Flacco yet is dominating him in every statistical category, Colts have what many feel is worst OL in football

- Only other QB's besides Flacco in entire NFL with negative TD-INT ratio are Case Keenum and Ryan Fitzpatrick

 

Enough excuses for Joe, I'm a long time supporter of his even through rough patches but this is different. This year so far he's not elite... not average... not even below average, he's amongst the very worst starting QB's in the entire NFL. Everything from his mechanics, to his accuracy, to his overall passing stats tell us so. Guys like Rivers have comparable weapons/OL and are blowing him out of the water.

As I see it, both of Joe's pics against the Jets were on him. They occurred just after he set a franchise record for consecutive passes thrown without a pic. They occurred because he is playing scared and is desperate to make a play and because nobody else is making the plays. Your statistics are very compelling but they do not tell the whole story. The most fascinating thing about your stats is that none of the QBs mentioned in your post have even played in a Super Bowl. Before SSS, Ronnie Stanley and Marshall were hurt, Joe had multiple weapons and the O-line played adequately. So, why have the others you mentioned had more success this year than Joe? IDK. The biggest difference I see between Joe and the QBs you have cited is in their mobility. They are more mobile and Joe is more of a pocket passer. When he has to scramble, its a problem and his recent ACL/MCL injury compounds that problem because he apparently has not fully recovered from the psychological side of the injury. As you know, I'm a Joe Flacco advocate and its hard to be objective. Its probably time to bench Joe until his head is right and the O-line is playing as a unit. Let's see what Ryan Mallett can do!

[rmcjacket23]

17 minutes ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

As I see it, both of Joe's pics against the Jets were on him. They occurred just after he set a franchise record for consecutive passes thrown without a pic. They occurred because he is playing scared and is desperate to make a play and because nobody else is making the plays. Your statistics are very compelling but they do not tell the whole story. The most fascinating thing about your stats is that none of the QBs mentioned in your post have even played in a Super Bowl. Before SSS, Ronnie Stanley and Marshall were hurt, Joe had multiple weapons and the O-line played adequately. So, why have the others you mentioned had more success this year than Joe? IDK. The biggest difference I see between Joe and the QBs you have cited is in their mobility. They are more mobile and Joe is more of a pocket passer. When he has to scramble, its a problem and his recent ACL/MCL injury compounds that problem because he apparently has not fully recovered from the psychological side of the injury. As you know, I'm a Joe Flacco advocate and its hard to be objective. Its probably time to bench Joe until his head is right and the O-line is playing as a unit. Let's see what Ryan Mallett can do!

So Ryan, Rivers and Stafford are mobile? How so?