Joe Flacco: Tough Talk

[MTRavensFan]

1 hour ago, terps85 said:

With all due respect, you're just throwing out a bunch of generalizations that aren't really true. If you watched Vikings games last year (gmaepass or live) you would have realized Wallace still was open deep plenty, but didn't have a QB to get him the ball. Saying a receiver is more talented or better because he has a QB that can get him the ball deep just doesn't make any sense. 

You're absolutely right.

This is a perfect example of where a player's stats don't tell the whole story, and why arguments based solely on stats are seriously flawed.

[ellicottraven]

14 hours ago, Vancouver raven said:

Joe is broke and mentally out of it.  He has zero leadership capabilities and is distant to team mates /and coaches.  It is like he is on his own sinking island.  Not being a hater, but stating what we all see every week.  Yes the O-Line is horrible and Zutah would be cut by the CFL, but Joe lacks leadership capabilities and he has zero clue to rally the team.  

Since this is your first post, I can understand your frustration. Believe it or not, Joe wasn't the way he is this year. He is still recovering from a serious injury. At least that is what I'm going to attribute his terrible performance this year. If this continues into next year, we'll know a little more. However, I doubt this slump will continue for too long. At least I hope not for the Ravens sake and their cap space's sake.

[Vancouver raven]

First time post, long time follower.  I think it may be part recovery/part unstable and under-performing O-Line.  However, other QB's with as bad lines have their QB 's still performing well.  He just seems unsure and not confident.  Throw in the no leadership and team does not seem cohesive andd getting worse

[flynismo]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Harbaugh's speech on Joe today...

"I'm a Joe Flacco fan. I believe in Joe, and Joe is certainly on offense the key to the whole thing. Joe Flacco is a great football player. Joe Flacco is the key to our success. So, we need to all do everything in our power that all the things are falling in place for him. He can play. He can throw it. He can make decisions. He can score touchdowns for us. He can do all the things we need to do. We need to make sure that we give him a chance to do that. Joe will take care of what he needs to do. I'm not worried about Joe taking care of what he needs to do. Joe works on it harder than anybody. He cares about it more than anybody. We need to protect him. We need to run routes. We need to create confidence in our passing game. We need to run the ball well. We need to do the things we need to do to make the offense work. And Joe will make the offense work."

Yeah well Harbs is just another blind homer, what does he know..

[Tru11]

2 hours ago, terps85 said:

He's still not making him any better of a player, he's just in a better situation because the quarterback fits his strengths, which he has always had.

do players play better with others that fit their strength or with players that dont fit their strenght?

[flynismo]

2 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

do players play better with others that fit their strength or with players that dont fit their strenght?

Players who fit their strengths allows that player to play to his potential. It doesn't make him a better player.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

It's hilarious how everyone freaks out here been happening for years always at the first sign of adversity. everyone acts like no one cares about the problem except them and their 10 friends that +1 their fire this person thread( which, ultimately, is what this thread is). It is the exact reason i stopped frequenting these forums years ago.... but I drop in every once in a while during the teams down times for a laugh.... THE VILLAGERS ARE ANGRY! PITCH FORKS AND TORCHES! 

[Tru11]

20 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Players who fit their strengths allows that player to play to his potential. It doesn't make him a better player.

so a player that plays better is not a better player then a player that does not play better?

better a player that plays to his potential is not a better player then a player who is not playing to his potential?

 

Edited October 26, 2016 by Tru11

[terps85]

6 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

so a player that plays better is not a better player then a player that does not play better?

better a player that plays to his potential is not a better player then a player who is not playing to his potential?

 

You're confusing talent with production. 

[allblackraven]

3 hours ago, Tru11 said:

so a player that plays better is not a better player then a player that does not play better?

better a player that plays to his potential is not a better player then a player who is not playing to his potential?

 

It's the same Mike Wallace, how do you not get it?

Edited October 27, 2016 by Moderator 3
Please don't cuss

[Tru11]

1 minute ago, terps85 said:

You're confusing talent with production. 

in a teams game the amount of talent you can show depends on the players you are surrounded with.

with the right players you can become a better player and thus play at a higher level and thus live up to your full potential.
with the wrong players you can be a bust and out of the league in a few years.

 

[Tru11]

3 hours ago, allblackraven said:

It's the same Mike Wallace, how do you not get it?

so last sunday flacco is also the same guy as the flacco that won SB MVP?

[Mahatma_Sloth]

43 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Players who fit their strengths allows that player to play to his potential. It doesn't make him a better player.

Paul Kruger?

[ellicottraven]

4 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

And Joe said:

	Jeff Zrebiec (@jeffzrebiecsun)
10/26/16, 12:17 PM Flacco: "I'm obviously not playing well enough. We're not a good offense right now and that starts with the quarterback."

Is this the accountability everyone has been demanding?

Yes I thought he should and this is a start. It doesn't go far enough. He needs to display a sense of urgency and relay what he thinks is ailing him and how he's taking measures to improve. I think the fans deserve to know that he's on it.

[terps85]

19 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

so last sunday flacco is also the same guy as the flacco that won SB MVP?

Just going to ignore he's coming off knee surgery? But if you're talking about arm talent, you must also be ignoring his 50 yard dime to Wallace. Much like Wallace with changing schemes, Flacco was able to throw that with good protection, further showing he just didn't forget how to throw which is what you're insinuating. No one has said players will perform the same regardless of situation. The idea of Flacco magically giving someone talent is what I'm saying. 

[terps85]

35 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

in a teams game the amount of talent you can show depends on the players you are surrounded with.

with the right players you can become a better player and thus play at a higher level and thus live up to your full potential.
with the wrong players you can be a bust and out of the league in a few years.

 

You don't become a more talented player based on the players around you. Does Steve Smith now run a faster 40 time because he's playing Flacco instead of some of the scrubs they had in Carolina?

[allblackraven]

28 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

so last sunday flacco is also the same guy as the flacco that won SB MVP?

Of course he is, he just played like crap vs Jets, 2nd half in particular. Perhaps his ability was compromised by knee brace and funny shoulder but he still is the same Joe Flacco.

[usmccharles]

25 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Yes I thought he should and this is a start. It doesn't go far enough. He needs to display a sense of urgency and relay what he thinks is ailing him and how he's taking measures to improve. I think the fans deserve to know that he's on it.

This is an 'entitlement' issue.  He doesn't owe us anything, he didn't have to come out and say what everyone knows.   Joe knows he isn't playing up to par and is going to do what he can to fix it, as every single player should that isn't playing up to their potential.  What are you expecting, him to breakdown every drill that he does and how hes going to do it differently.  Im a huge Joe supporter, but im not making any excuses for him, he is playing like garbage, but does that mean I deserve an explanation?  No, why would it. 

13 minutes ago, terps85 said:

You don't become a more talented player based on the players around you. Does Steve Smith now run a faster 40 time because he's playing Flacco instead of some of the scrubs they had in Carolina?

Sorry man, but this is just false.  You really think having AP in the backfield doesn't make life a bit easier on the WRs?  What about OL play, our biggest issue, that doesn't elevate the QB any? You think Dak Prescott looks this good behind our OL? Come on man, that's common sense, that's why its a team sport.  No SSr might not run a faster 40, but if there is another player that has to be accounted for and he cant be doubled....im gonna guess hes going to be a bit more open.  This analogy can be used for almost everything in life.....

[terps85]

2 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

 

Sorry man, but this is just false.  You really think having AP in the backfield doesn't make life a bit easier on the WRs?  What about OL play, our biggest issue, that doesn't elevate the QB any? You think Dak Prescott looks this good behind our OL? Come on man, that's common sense, that's why its a team sport.  No SSr might not run a faster 40, but if there is another player that has to be accounted for and he cant be doubled....im gonna guess hes going to be a bit more open.  This analogy can be used for almost everything in life.....

I've never said players aren't going to perform better in environments more suitable to their strengths though. At the end of the day, the receiver still has to be good enough to beat the guy across from him. The idea that a QB can make it so a receiver can beat the guy across from him is what I'm saying doesn't make sense. 

By your logic, any team with a good run game should automatically have a good passing game and vice versa. But that's not the case because at the end of the day, it comes down to talent. It's what makes football the best game there is. It's such a complex game, but all comes down to beating the guy across from you. 

[usmccharles]

11 minutes ago, terps85 said:

I've never said players aren't going to perform better in environments more suitable to their strengths though. At the end of the day, the receiver still has to be good enough to beat the guy across from him. The idea that a QB can make it so a receiver can beat the guy across from him is what I'm saying doesn't make sense. 

By your logic, any team with a good run game should automatically have a good passing game and vice versa. But that's not the case because at the end of the day, it comes down to talent. It's what makes football the best game there is. It's such a complex game, but all comes down to beating the guy across from you. 

Ok I get you, I interpreted it a little different.  Its crazy how most of us were so excited about our WR corps, me included...and this is what we get. 

[terps85]

1 minute ago, usmccharles said:

Ok I get you, I interpreted it a little different.  Its crazy how most of us were so excited about our WR corps, me included...and this is what we get. 

Got ya man. Saying players perform the same regardless of situation wouldn't make any sense at all, I agree with you there lol. 

But yeah, it sucks. I don't know how much of it is the receiving corps or the line, but it's definitely frustrating. Revis shadowing Perriman could mean a good thing, but that might be a bit too optimistic. 

[allblackraven]

25 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

This is an 'entitlement' issue.  He doesn't owe us anything, he didn't have to come out and say what everyone knows.   Joe knows he isn't playing up to par and is going to do what he can to fix it, as every single player should that isn't playing up to their potential.  What are you expecting, him to breakdown every drill that he does and how hes going to do it differently.  Im a huge Joe supporter, but im not making any excuses for him, he is playing like garbage, but does that mean I deserve an explanation?  No, why would it. 

Sorry man, but this is just false.  You really think having AP in the backfield doesn't make life a bit easier on the WRs?  What about OL play, our biggest issue, that doesn't elevate the QB any? You think Dak Prescott looks this good behind our OL? Come on man, that's common sense, that's why its a team sport.  No SSr might not run a faster 40, but if there is another player that has to be accounted for and he cant be doubled....im gonna guess hes going to be a bit more open.  This analogy can be used for almost everything in life.....

No, it isn't. Whether the player can produce or not based on the complementary players around him does not make that player more or less talented. With better players around him of course he'll have more success producing better results.

Crap O line definitely won't make Dak Prescott any less talented than he is. Dallas would just give more games because Prescott's talent can't be utilised, since he is in a dirt with defensive lineman on top of him.

[usmccharles]

14 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

No, it isn't. Whether the player can produce or not based on the complementary players around him does not make that player more or less talented. With better players around him of course he'll have more success producing better results.

Crap O line definitely won't make Dak Prescott any less talented than he is. Dallas would just give more games because Prescott's talent can't be utilised, since he is in a dirt with defensive lineman on top of him.

yea, see above, I just miss-interpreted his point.  Talent vs production

[allblackraven]

Just now, usmccharles said:

yea, see above, I just miss-interpreted his point.  Talent vs production

Lol, yep, saw it after I posted

 

[Wisdom]

5 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

And Joe said:

	Jeff Zrebiec (@jeffzrebiecsun)
10/26/16, 12:17 PM Flacco: "I'm obviously not playing well enough. We're not a good offense right now and that starts with the quarterback."

Is this the accountability everyone has been demanding?

Obviously!  LOL!

[flynismo]

 

2 hours ago, Tru11 said:

so a player that plays better is not a better player then a player that does not play better?

better a player that plays to his potential is not a better player then a player who is not playing to his potential?

 

Say that three times fast

[flynismo]

2 hours ago, Mahatma_Sloth said:

Paul Kruger?

Agreed. He played well in this system. He also played up to his potential since guys like Ngata and Pryce kept him from getting double teamed.

[The Raven]

15 hours ago, Halshayeji said:

Your absolutely right. A second is a steep price but we need all the help we can get. If you asked me in the offseason id say ''hell no nothing more than a 3rd!''

Yes Stanley was a great pickup and Yanda still has gas in the tank. The drop off from them and the next best is simply too much. Lewis, Wagner, Zuttah, and Urschel are players that i really like but come on now. but My problem is the same problem iv had for years. You need 8 good linemen to finish a season. At the moment we have 6 and even that can be disputed. Your as good as your weakest link. I hate it when we blame bad O-Line play on injuries. Its the NFL and linemen get hurt. Just the nature of the game.

On paper, our best 5 linemen are as good as anyone. the problem i have is that our FO keeps looking at the best 5 and waits for them to be healthy together. It doesnt work that way. They should consider how we look when 2 or 3 of our best 5 are out. Its not a secret or bad luck. Its being unprepared. take any 3 out from our ''6 good linemen'' and make any combination with the players we have on roster. Thats a recipe for disaster.

You say that youd call for Ozzies job if he traded a second for a 32 year old potential pro bowler. tell me one guaranteed pro bowler to come from last years second round. I say Id really question Ozzie if he just sits back and ignores the most glaring need and easiest quick fix. I dont care what he does but for gods sake do something. Give Monroe or Jake Long a call. Anything, just dont sit back and pick up guys of practice squads expecting them to play better than Jensen and Hurst. We dont need a starter. Im good with Stanley, Lewis, Zuttah, Yanda, and Wagner. But we do need someone other than Urschel alone to step up when injuries happen. Notice i used when not ''if'' 

It is moronic to trade a high pick for a player that maybe won't be playing in 2-3 years. Completely moronic. Ideally, when you trade a pick, you're getting a guy that will have the same time of service to a team that the draft pick would have had. Second rounders usually get three years AT LEAST.

Trading a pick that's potentially a multi-year starter for a two year rental is idiotic. We suck because we aren't drafting well. Mortgaging the future for the now is a stupid way to build a team.

Edited October 27, 2016 by The Raven

[flynismo]

4 minutes ago, The Raven said:

It is moronic to trade a high pick for a player that maybe won't be playing in 2-3 years. Completely moronic. Ideally, when you trade a pick, you're getting a guy that will have the same time of service to a team that the draft pick would have had. Second rounders usually get three years AT LEAST.

Trading a pick that's potentially a multi-year starter for a two year rental is idiotic. We suck because we aren't drafting well. Mortgaging the future for the now is a stupid way to build a team.

And..........who exactly is paying Thomas' contract in that situation anyway? lol

[Ravensfan23]

2 hours ago, usmccharles said:

This is an 'entitlement' issue.  He doesn't owe us anything, he didn't have to come out and say what everyone knows.   Joe knows he isn't playing up to par and is going to do what he can to fix it, as every single player should that isn't playing up to their potential.  What are you expecting, him to breakdown every drill that he does and how hes going to do it differently.  Im a huge Joe supporter, but im not making any excuses for him, he is playing like garbage, but does that mean I deserve an explanation?  No, why would it.

Couldn't agree more. Flacco nor any other player or coach owe fans anything. These are grown mean who are paid to do a job, they only need answer to their employer. These guys aren't responsible for putting food on our tables, taking care our families or our quality if life. The level of play don't impact or effect our day to day lives, unless you chose to get overly attached to the outcome of games which would be a personal issue.