Joe Flacco: Tough Talk

[CalvinSmoke]

Flacco has gotten almost all of his OC's fired man...

[Vancouver raven]

Joe is broke and mentally out of it.  He has zero leadership capabilities and is distant to team mates /and coaches.  It is like he is on his own sinking island.  Not being a hater, but stating what we all see every week.  Yes the O-Line is horrible and Zutah would be cut by the CFL, but Joe lacks leadership capabilities and he has zero clue to rally the team.  

[Tru11]

5 hours ago, terps85 said:

Of course. Mike Wallace is a prime example. He's with Tannehill and Bridgewater, two guys who struggle throwing it downfield.  Did Flacco magically make it so Wallace could get open deep again?

yes.

he now has a QB that can get the ball to him.

he seems a lot more motivated and goes at full speed downfield anticipating the ball , rather then just doing a half butt job knowing he is just a decoy that wont see the ball coming his way.

 

 

[MTRavensFan]

1 hour ago, CalvinSmoke said:

Flacco has gotten almost all of his OC's fired man...

That's ridiculous.

Kubiak and Caldwell left to become HC's elsewhere. Cameron's firing led to the Super Bowl, and then there's Trestman. How does that translate into most?

[Maryland]

To "fix" Flacco, I'd like the following to occur over the off-season:

Hire a new QB coach. Mornhinweg wasn't getting good results even as the QB coach; it seemed like Flacco actually regressed under him. 

Hire an OC who will install a "run-first" offense that operates heavily off of play-action passing (run-first in quotes because obviously I don't want a Cam Cameron run-run-pass offense lol, just someone who runs an offense that is committed to the run). If they could hire someone in the same mold as Kubiak or Shanahan, that would make me happy, since our OL is built for a ZBS, which is what they run. 

Improve the OL. It would be nice if we could upgrade Zuttah, but that may be unlikely. And we're going to need a new LG with Lewis most likely replacing Wagner at RT for 2017. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by Maryland

[RedFire]

2 hours ago, Vancouver raven said:

Joe is broke and mentally out of it.  

What's he doing with his money? Gambling problems? 

[Halshayeji]

8 hours ago, The Raven said:

If we trade a 2nd to a division rival for a 32 year old LT on the downswing I'll join the plebs calling for Ozzie to be fired.

Your absolutely right. A second is a steep price but we need all the help we can get. If you asked me in the offseason id say ''hell no nothing more than a 3rd!''

Yes Stanley was a great pickup and Yanda still has gas in the tank. The drop off from them and the next best is simply too much. Lewis, Wagner, Zuttah, and Urschel are players that i really like but come on now. but My problem is the same problem iv had for years. You need 8 good linemen to finish a season. At the moment we have 6 and even that can be disputed. Your as good as your weakest link. I hate it when we blame bad O-Line play on injuries. Its the NFL and linemen get hurt. Just the nature of the game.

On paper, our best 5 linemen are as good as anyone. the problem i have is that our FO keeps looking at the best 5 and waits for them to be healthy together. It doesnt work that way. They should consider how we look when 2 or 3 of our best 5 are out. Its not a secret or bad luck. Its being unprepared. take any 3 out from our ''6 good linemen'' and make any combination with the players we have on roster. Thats a recipe for disaster.

You say that youd call for Ozzies job if he traded a second for a 32 year old potential pro bowler. tell me one guaranteed pro bowler to come from last years second round. I say Id really question Ozzie if he just sits back and ignores the most glaring need and easiest quick fix. I dont care what he does but for gods sake do something. Give Monroe or Jake Long a call. Anything, just dont sit back and pick up guys of practice squads expecting them to play better than Jensen and Hurst. We dont need a starter. Im good with Stanley, Lewis, Zuttah, Yanda, and Wagner. But we do need someone other than Urschel alone to step up when injuries happen. Notice i used when not ''if'' 

[hn68wb4]

4 hours ago, CalvinSmoke said:

Flacco has gotten almost all of his OC's fired man...

You do realize that during Flacco's career we've only fired two OCs - Cameron and Trestman, both with terrible coaching histories and Cameron couldn't even get the job done at the college level, the other two OCs left for promotions.

[hn68wb4]

30 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

Your absolutely right. A second is a steep price but we need all the help we can get. If you asked me in the offseason id say ''hell no nothing more than a 3rd!''

Yes Stanley was a great pickup and Yanda still has gas in the tank. The drop off from them and the next best is simply too much. Lewis, Wagner, Zuttah, and Urschel are players that i really like but come on now. but My problem is the same problem iv had for years. You need 8 good linemen to finish a season. At the moment we have 6 and even that can be disputed. Your as good as your weakest link. I hate it when we blame bad O-Line play on injuries. Its the NFL and linemen get hurt. Just the nature of the game.

On paper, our best 5 linemen are as good as anyone. the problem i have is that our FO keeps looking at the best 5 and waits for them to be healthy together. It doesnt work that way. They should consider how we look when 2 or 3 of our best 5 are out. Its not a secret or bad luck. Its being unprepared. take any 3 out from our ''6 good linemen'' and make any combination with the players we have on roster. Thats a recipe for disaster.

You say that youd call for Ozzies job if he traded a second for a 32 year old potential pro bowler. tell me one guaranteed pro bowler to come from last years second round. I say Id really question Ozzie if he just sits back and ignores the most glaring need and easiest quick fix. I dont care what he does but for gods sake do something. Give Monroe or Jake Long a call. Anything, just dont sit back and pick up guys of practice squads expecting them to play better than Jensen and Hurst. We dont need a starter. Im good with Stanley, Lewis, Zuttah, Yanda, and Wagner. But we do need someone other than Urschel alone to step up when injuries happen. Notice i used when not ''if'' 

I'd say if you're expecting us to have more than 5 quality starting olineman at a time then you're the one with unreal expectations, most teams don't even have 5. So you're saying we should trade away our 2nd round pick for a 32 year old LT that we have no intention of starting? that's ridiculous, you don't trade away that high of a pick for anyone unless you have plans on them being the starter outright. If any team loses 2 or 3 of their best lineman they are going to have tons of trouble, literally any team, complaining that we can't absorb that level of losses and keep moving no problem is patently ridiculous. You go to the Cowboys and take away Tyron Smith, Travis Frederick, and Zach Martin and I guarantee you that they will struggle up front, no team has the ability to withstand multiple losses of quality players up front - that's not "being unprepared" that's football, there aren't enough starting quality lineman for every team to have 5 good starters, let alone more than 1 quality backup.

There's a reason Monroe isn't currently in the NFL, plenty of teams would have been happy to sign him before he retired. We aren't calling him because 1) We literally drafted Stanley so we could get rid of him, 2) He couldn't stay healthy to save his life, and 3) he retired of his own volition, he wanted to pursue other things and left football behind. Jake Long on the other hand is a member of the Vikings right now and his first game last week was a disaster.

We aren't going after Thomas, period. It makes no sense whatsoever. He's one of the best LTs in the league and we'd be giving up a second rounder to get him, plus we'd be taking on his starting caliber contract, when we already have a starting LT that we just spent a first on and fully intend on keeping at starter. We aren't giving up that valuable of a pick and taking on a big cap hit for a guy we aren't going to start, this isn't even a discussion, it's not happening in a million years. Lewis has done about as well as you can expect from a backup LT, it's hardly a time to hit the panic button especially going into the bye when we are getting both of our injured lineman back.

Edited October 26, 2016 by hn68wb4

[K-Dog]

3 hours ago, RedFire said:

What's he doing with his money? Gambling problems? 

Day care . 

[ALPHA]

Im paraphrazing here but Flacco recently said something along the lines of when the time comes we're going to have to kick him out the door, considering that stance and who his agent is he can really do what he wants, he could coast along and stink up the joint for years.

[OUravensfan]

Our WRs never get open like other teams, Dalton threw to a wide open Lafayell for a TD vs Cleveland, we haven't gotten a guy half as wide open as he was on that play

[Halshayeji]

4 hours ago, hn68wb4 said:

I'd say if you're expecting us to have more than 5 quality starting olineman at a time then you're the one with unreal expectations, most teams don't even have 5. So you're saying we should trade away our 2nd round pick for a 32 year old LT that we have no intention of starting? that's ridiculous, you don't trade away that high of a pick for anyone unless you have plans on them being the starter outright. If any team loses 2 or 3 of their best lineman they are going to have tons of trouble, literally any team, complaining that we can't absorb that level of losses and keep moving no problem is patently ridiculous. You go to the Cowboys and take away Tyron Smith, Travis Frederick, and Zach Martin and I guarantee you that they will struggle up front, no team has the ability to withstand multiple losses of quality players up front - that's not "being unprepared" that's football, there aren't enough starting quality lineman for every team to have 5 good starters, let alone more than 1 quality backup.

There's a reason Monroe isn't currently in the NFL, plenty of teams would have been happy to sign him before he retired. We aren't calling him because 1) We literally drafted Stanley so we could get rid of him, 2) He couldn't stay healthy to save his life, and 3) he retired of his own volition, he wanted to pursue other things and left football behind. Jake Long on the other hand is a member of the Vikings right now and his first game last week was a disaster.

We aren't going after Thomas, period. It makes no sense whatsoever. He's one of the best LTs in the league and we'd be giving up a second rounder to get him, plus we'd be taking on his starting caliber contract, when we already have a starting LT that we just spent a first on and fully intend on keeping at starter. We aren't giving up that valuable of a pick and taking on a big cap hit for a guy we aren't going to start, this isn't even a discussion, it's not happening in a million years. Lewis has done about as well as you can expect from a backup LT, it's hardly a time to hit the panic button especially going into the bye when we are getting both of our injured lineman back.

You make a lot of valid points but I'm afraid your missing mine. Theoretically, if we land Thomas Stanley moves to RT or LG he won't be benched. True, most teams would struggle if they lose 2 of their best 3 linemen but also consider most teams have banged up lines at this time.

i feel that we need to acquire someone as good as Urschel or better. Not necesarrily to start but because the dropoff to Jensen and Hurst is just too much for us to handle. If this year proved anything, we can't handle more than one injury on our line so let's fix it before the deadline passes.

to your other good point, "teams don't give up good linemen". Your right they don't but when they are in rebuild mode then picks are more valuable than aging players. 49ers and Browns are 2 teams that have given up on the season.

one last thing. We just lost 4 in a row. When do you normally panic lol

Edited October 26, 2016 by Halshayeji

[Rav'n Maniac]

4 hours ago, hn68wb4 said:

I'd say if you're expecting us to have more than 5 quality starting olineman at a time then you're the one with unreal expectations, most teams don't even have 5. So you're saying we should trade away our 2nd round pick for a 32 year old LT that we have no intention of starting? that's ridiculous, you don't trade away that high of a pick for anyone unless you have plans on them being the starter outright. If any team loses 2 or 3 of their best lineman they are going to have tons of trouble, literally any team, complaining that we can't absorb that level of losses and keep moving no problem is patently ridiculous. You go to the Cowboys and take away Tyron Smith, Travis Frederick, and Zach Martin and I guarantee you that they will struggle up front, no team has the ability to withstand multiple losses of quality players up front - that's not "being unprepared" that's football, there aren't enough starting quality lineman for every team to have 5 good starters, let alone more than 1 quality backup.

There's a reason Monroe isn't currently in the NFL, plenty of teams would have been happy to sign him before he retired. We aren't calling him because 1) We literally drafted Stanley so we could get rid of him, 2) He couldn't stay healthy to save his life, and 3) he retired of his own volition, he wanted to pursue other things and left football behind. Jake Long on the other hand is a member of the Vikings right now and his first game last week was a disaster.

We aren't going after Thomas, period. It makes no sense whatsoever. He's one of the best LTs in the league and we'd be giving up a second rounder to get him, plus we'd be taking on his starting caliber contract, when we already have a starting LT that we just spent a first on and fully intend on keeping at starter. We aren't giving up that valuable of a pick and taking on a big cap hit for a guy we aren't going to start, this isn't even a discussion, it's not happening in a million years. Lewis has done about as well as you can expect from a backup LT, it's hardly a time to hit the panic button especially going into the bye when we are getting both of our injured lineman back.

All of your points are good but I'd like to mention one of the most important in considering Thomas. (Money). Not only is trading a 2nd a steep price for a 31 yr old but, that 9.5m salary comes along with it. At present, we have 2.4m in cap available, so how many players do we need to cut to make up the other 7.1m.

[ravensnj]

5 hours ago, hn68wb4 said:

You do realize that during Flacco's career we've only fired two OCs - Cameron and Trestman, both with terrible coaching histories and Cameron couldn't even get the job done at the college level, the other two OCs left for promotions.

My question: When is the last time we hired a coach that was not fired from his last job? 

[Tru11]

2 hours ago, OUravensfan said:

Our WRs never get open like other teams, Dalton threw to a wide open Lafayell for a TD vs Cleveland, we haven't gotten a guy half as wide open as he was on that play

pretty sure when you watch back the all 22 film , you will find instances where our receivers where wide open but the ball never got there for various reasons.

heck there has been instances where the receivers where wide open and they just plain dropped the ball.

moore and perriman drops come to mind....

heck there are plays where receivers would appear to get open but flacco was to busy running for his life cause people where missing blocks or just straight up gotten beat bad.

[Tru11]

5 minutes ago, ravensnj said:

My question: When is the last time we hired a coach that was not fired from his last job? 

coaches rarely leave 1 job for another unless its a promotion.

[ravensdfan]

On 10/24/2016 at 9:49 PM, redrum52 said:

This isn't in defense of him, but what about putting pressures in the stats as well? What about qb hits?

What about not using a bogus stat like QBR? lol They won't put anything but stats that back up their narrative.

Flacco was done in the Jet game. It was beyond obvious but that is the very first time I have seen him completely rattled like that so I love that all the Flacco haters want to act like that is some normal thing.

[rmcjacket23]

7 minutes ago, ravensnj said:

My question: When is the last time we hired a coach that was not fired from his last job? 

By definition, this would be very hard to job.

There's really only two scenarios where a coach gets hired who hasn't been fired from somewhere before:

1. They're being hired into a promotion position from other team 

2. They for some reason decide to accept a lateral job at the same position with a different team

Here's the general cycle of coaching in the NFL...

1. Start as a positional coach. If good, see #2. If average or bad, stay put at this spot, rotating around teams.

2. Get promoted to a coordinator spot. If good, see #3. If average or bad, stay put at this pot, rotating around teams.

3. Get promoted to a HC spot. If good, stay put for a long time. If average or bad get fired and take a coordinator gig, thus restarting the process at #2. 

Infrequently, a HC will get fired and immediately get another HC gig elsewhere. Typically need large track record of success to get to this point.

[AsianRice]

10 hours ago, CalvinSmoke said:

Flacco has gotten almost all of his OC's fired man...

u sure u Ravens fan who actually watch the games and follow Ravens news?

 

 

I can't said any better than this

 

9 hours ago, MTRavensFan said:

That's ridiculous.

Kubiak and Caldwell left to become HC's elsewhere. Cameron's firing led to the Super Bowl, and then there's Trestman. How does that translate into most?

 

[Halshayeji]

1 hour ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

All of your points are good but I'd like to mention one of the most important in considering Thomas. (Money). Not only is trading a 2nd a steep price for a 31 yr old but, that 9.5m salary comes along with it. At present, we have 2.4m in cap available, so how many players do we need to cut to make up the other 7.1m.

Theoretically speaking, if we acuire Thomas hed count 8.3 against our cap and we have closer to 4 mil but your right. We would need to free up 4-5 mil in cap or restructure his deal.

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

Theoretically speaking, if we acuire Thomas hed count 8.3 against our cap and we have closer to 4 mil but your right. We would need to free up 4-5 mil in cap or restructure his deal.

Not even $8.3M. Just the remaining portion of the season, which is basically half a season, so about $4.2M or somewhere in that range.

Obviously this is moot because:

1. It makes no sense to trade for a LT when we look to have a pretty good rookie there.

2. The Browns probably wouldn't trade him to a division opponent for a 2nd rounder... likely would cost a 1st.

 

 

[Halshayeji]

13 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Not even $8.3M. Just the remaining portion of the season, which is basically half a season, so about $4.2M or somewhere in that range.

Obviously this is moot because:

1. It makes no sense to trade for a LT when we look to have a pretty good rookie there.

2. The Browns probably wouldn't trade him to a division opponent for a 2nd rounder... likely would cost a 1st.

 

 

I wouldn't mind the position as our Stanley would move to RT or LG. Anyone else out there? I read somewhere the 49ers are willing to part ways with their linemen Staley but I really wouldn't like that move.

[rmcjacket23]

40 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

I wouldn't mind the position as our Stanley would move to RT or LG. Anyone else out there? I read somewhere the 49ers are willing to part ways with their linemen Staley but I really wouldn't like that move.

But what's the point of moving Stanley to RT or LG when he's doing fine at LT? 

If Thomas were to be traded, it would be to somebody who's actually looking to contend in the near future. We clearly aren't one of those teams.

I'd actually consider us one of the least likely teams in the entire league to trade for a LT.

[terps85]

13 hours ago, Tru11 said:

yes.

he now has a QB that can get the ball to him.

he seems a lot more motivated and goes at full speed downfield anticipating the ball , rather then just doing a half butt job knowing he is just a decoy that wont see the ball coming his way.

 

 

With all due respect, you're just throwing out a bunch of generalizations that aren't really true. If you watched Vikings games last year (gamepass or live) you would have realized Wallace still was open deep plenty, but didn't have a QB to get him the ball. Saying a receiver is more talented or better because he has a QB that can get him the ball deep just doesn't make any sense. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by terps85
typo

[rmcjacket23]

Harbaugh's speech on Joe today...

"I'm a Joe Flacco fan. I believe in Joe, and Joe is certainly on offense the key to the whole thing. Joe Flacco is a great football player. Joe Flacco is the key to our success. So, we need to all do everything in our power that all the things are falling in place for him. He can play. He can throw it. He can make decisions. He can score touchdowns for us. He can do all the things we need to do. We need to make sure that we give him a chance to do that. Joe will take care of what he needs to do. I'm not worried about Joe taking care of what he needs to do. Joe works on it harder than anybody. He cares about it more than anybody. We need to protect him. We need to run routes. We need to create confidence in our passing game. We need to run the ball well. We need to do the things we need to do to make the offense work. And Joe will make the offense work."

[Moderator 3]

And Joe said:

	Jeff Zrebiec (@jeffzrebiecsun)
10/26/16, 12:17 PM Flacco: "I'm obviously not playing well enough. We're not a good offense right now and that starts with the quarterback."

Is this the accountability everyone has been demanding?

[Tru11]

1 hour ago, terps85 said:

With all due respect, you're just throwing out a bunch of generalizations that aren't really true. If you watched Vikings games last year (gmaepass or live) you would have realized Wallace still was open deep plenty, but didn't have a QB to get him the ball. Saying a receiver is more talented or better because he has a QB that can get him the ball deep just doesn't make any sense. 

read the 2nd sentence of the piece you quoted.

[hn68wb4]

4 hours ago, ravensnj said:

My question: When is the last time we hired a coach that was not fired from his last job? 

In Flacco's career we have never had an OC that wasn't fired before coming here - but that doesn't really mean much, 4 out of 5 were head coaches before coming here (Mornhinweg was a HC at one point in his career, just not right before coming here), head coaches don't leave their job to be OCs so they literally had to be fired to come here. The two that left for promotions - Kubiak and Caldwell - had long successful head coaching jobs before we hired them, a couple poor seasons and they got scapegoated (moreso Kubiak than Caldwell but I'd still say it applies to him as well). It's not exactly common for coaches to up and leave a team willingly unless it's a promotion so most coordinators were fired before getting their jobs if they were a coordinator or head coach beforehand.

[terps85]

16 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

read the 2nd sentence of the piece you quoted.

He's still not making him any better of a player, he's just in a better situation because the quarterback fits his strengths, which he has always had.