• Announcements

    • Admin 3

      UPDATED: MESSAGE BOARDS CLOSING AFTER DRAFT   03/08/2017

      After careful consideration, we have decided that we will sunset our message boards after this year's NFL Draft. Since we opened our boards a decade ago, the digital landscape has greatly evolved. While we understand there remains a smaller group of highly-engaged fans who participate in conversation in our forums, a significant amount of the dialogue about our team and our games has migrated away to other social media platforms over the past several years. Our message boards will remain up and running through Friday, May 5th, and will be removed on May 6th. We recognize that this change may upset avid members of our community. However, we look to utilize our time and resources to focus on how we can best connect with our fans across an array of digital/social outlets. If you are not already engaging us and other members of the Ravens Flock on our Facebook page, Instagram account, through Twitter or Snapchat, we invite you to follow us on those channels and continue to participate in our social communities. In addition, the commenting feature on our website articles will remain intact. Members will be able to continue using their boards account to log in and share their thoughts at the bottom of every news story. We’d like to thank all the Flock members and our moderators who have brought thoughtful conversation to this space and made our community great for the last 10 years. Ravens Social Media Hub »
sflegend89

Joe Flacco: Tough Talk

3,204 posts in this topic

another example:

if a receiver beats his man off the LOS and is running down the field with a step on him man.if the ball is placed in front of him where all he has to do is catch it and keep on running he will look pretty good.
if the ball is underthrown and the receiver has to stop and jump to try and catch it with the defender all over him , odss are it could turn into a drop or even pick.

same example but lets now add a safety in the middle of the field.
you throw that ball to the side line in front of the receiver and it could be a catch and TD
you throw that ball to the inside where the safety is and you will end up in a heavy contested pass which most likely will end up in a pick,

heck the timing of when you throw the ball can make a huge difference.
usually a receiver is open for a brief second after he makes a cut in his route.
if the ball is already on its way before he comes out of his cut then it will look as he is wide open which ofcourse will make him look good.
you throw that ball to late and the defender has a chance to recover and thus will have a better shot at making a play on the ball and well people will complain receivers are never open.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

It would go a long way in calming nerves if Flacco just took full responsibility for his poor play this season and use "I" instead of "we" every time he's asked of the loss. I realize its a team sport but this last game (fresh in my memory) is totallya attributable to Joe's INTS. It cost us 10 points and all he did was help us get 6. If he acknowledges that something is up that he needs to figure out and work on, the whole fan base will pick him up and encourage him! Don't forget most of the posters on this board are big fans of his.

If he claims i instead of we when playing poorly why cant his detractors let him claim i instead of we when he plays well... See 2012 playoffs, some people still can't give him credit.

Look, he and eveyone else is playing poor.

For joe individually its clear what's wrong. He just won't step into throws. Throws back foot with no accuracy leading to simple misses and interceptions even when there is no pressure.

He either has regressed and his footwork has gone to crap or he has no trust in his oline and knee and literally panics for fear of getting Hurt.

I think its the latter, and right now that's probably worse because with how out oline is playing I can't see that trust coming anytime soon, so this could happen all year.

Maybe we need to pull him, if it is a mental thing. If it's not a mental thing, he's here for the long haul with the contract so we need to look at getting a good coach in to work on his footwork and sort him out!

Edited by arnie_uk
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If morninweg can't get the offense firing on most of its cylinders at least, then he needs to go like trestman. Need a good OC and QB coach that Flacco can connect with. It would be nice if our HC could step in and tweak things. But unfortunately for all his accolades is not an offensive guru. 

Next up. IMO ravens need to fix Flaccos supporting cast before anything else. I'm sorry but as much as we need a young dominant sack artist. We can't have out $23million QB struggling and fronting bad mechanics on the account his OL is getting thrown into his lap. Flacco is not the brand of QB that can function effectively with a bad OL. If Flacco is protected he can throw a beautiful football and make adequate WR's look good. We have to fix Flacco's OL first and foremost. Sorry if that means no Myles Garrett or whatever his name is. Ravens need something in return for their investment in Flacco. And that means putting its resources into helping him before all else.

Investing in the OL helps not only Flacco. But the run game and overall offense. Which in turn can play ball control and help the defense. We need 2 new top notch front line players on the OL. And a young in his prime WR whose best play is in front of him and not behind him. Give Jensen and Urschel opportunity. Find out who can play and play well. VERY WELL! Give the young WR's Moore and Perriman more opportunity. Give the young TE's reps as well. Guys like Brown and Boyle when he returns. Give all the young players more opportunity to see what young talent can be counted on to step up.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Build rapport with drafted WRs.  Flacco doesn't know how to do that well.   He had success with Torrey Smith.   Other than that he needs a probowl veteran.

 

Just look at what brees has as his receivers, or Philip rivers.  Flacco has to be the guide to build chemistry to the guys entering into the league.   Flacco got the money, he needs to do a little bit of that too.  That is a component Flacco has difficulty doing.  

See brown, Marlon. (Is he even in the league now)

See aiken, Kamar (was he undrafted).

All the while dreaming to have Gronk 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the numbers posted i can gather a bit as well. It says a lot about Flacco. Even if he is tough and hides his aches and pains to start  He needs to do what is best for the team. Also you can not have a "tender" qb and a awful O'line. Someone needs to step up and make a call on improving the line ASAP. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Tru11 said:

uhhh its possible.

Ball placement for instance can make a receiver look better or worse.

lets use the slant with the defender in a trailing position:
placing the ball in front of the receiver , so he can catch it and maintain momentum gives you a much higher % at a catch and YAC.
placing the ball behind him increases the difficulty of the catch and usually ends in a drop.
same with placing the ball at the feet.
a jump ball is about the worst options to throw as you are hanging the receiver out to dry and a drop is very high to occur.

now its pretty clear in which of these the receiver will look better and in which ones he will look worse.
1 he can look good with a catch and yac while the others he can be credited for  a drop and the blame for the play failing.

That still isn't making a receiver better. 

That's simply the quarterback playing better.

Everything I'm hearing is simply the quarterback playing better, not the quarterback making the receiver play better.

If a receiver runs two routes the exact same way and one quarterback hits him in stride and the other throws behind him, is quarterback one really making the receiver better? No, the receiver didn't do anything different. That's simply the quarterback doing a better job.

No quarterback makes his wide receivers do their job better. The quarterback is just simply doing his job better.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, GhostofGrbac said:

Calvin Johnson has arguably the best season of his career in Stafford's first fully healthy season. So yeah Stafford made Johnson a more productive (aka better) WR.

The Calvin Johnson thing doesn't even factor in to what I'm talking about though. You're talking about the #2 draft pick while I'm talking about late round guys like Colston.

I didn't dodge your Wallace question. It's hard to follow on a phone when you respond to every single post I make.

Yes Wallace is a more productive (aka better) WR with Flacco than he was in Minnesota and Miami.

The Calvin Johnson pick does factor in even more so because Johnson was so talented that he was picked number 2 overall. He was arguably the best receiver in football BEFORE he broke out. Everyone knew that a healthy Stafford would do wonders for him.

Stafford didn't make Johnson a better receiver, but having an accurate passer who could actually feed him the ball made him more productive statistically.

And if you want to say a quarterback could make a receiver more productive, I have no issue with that statement at all. If the Ravens decided to send Steve Smith off with a ring and traded him to NE, I guarantee he puts up better stats, but that doesn't mean he'll be a better receiver. He's a 16 year vet and we know what we're getting with him. But he probably would be a lot more productive.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, GhostofGrbac said:

Honestly doing everything on arm talent alone is probably why he had shoulder discomfort.

His mechanics have been inconsistent his entire career. The only time his mechanics were solid for most of the season was under Kubiak.

Which brings up the question why didn't we get an OC that ran a system similar to Kubiak? Like Shanahan who is lighting it up as the OC in ATL.

Shanahan was actually my number two pick for OC. I remember on the day that Trestman got hired (maybe the day before), someone edited his Wikipedia to say he was the OC of the Ravens and I got super hyped. Turns out that wasn't true. Adam Gase was my number one pick for OC, but obviously he would have just left the very next year, so no biggie there.

His mechanics have never been this bad. Inconsistent? Generally speaking, yes, but more of that came from an awkward wind up and elongated motions that aren't compact like an Aaron Rodgers. He had issues with not setting his feet always, but it wasn't anything like this where he's throwing off his back foot like 50%+ of the time and that's what I don't understand.

Coming off an ACL tear is a great time to fix your footwork as you rehab, so how he regressed this badly with a QB coach is mind-blowing.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, GhostofGrbac said:

Falling off? He threw 31 td's to a WR/TE group consisting of Jones, Adams, Montgomery, Rodgers, and Cobb (who was banged up throughout the season).

If you watched Green Bay consistently last year (they're one NFC team I really like to watch), Rodgers was in no way, shape, or form nearly the same. He benefited a lot from big plays from broken coverages/offsides penalties (he is absolutely the best in the business at drawing an offsides and turning it into points), but he was not nearly the same quarterback. I'd still take him on the Ravens, no doubt, but he was a far cry from what he was the previous year.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, arnie_uk said:

He either has regressed and his footwork has gone to crap or he has no trust in his oline and knee and literally panics for fear of getting Hurt.

I think its the latter, and right now that's probably worse because with how out oline is playing I can't see that trust coming anytime soon, so this could happen all year.

Maybe we need to pull him, if it is a mental thing. If it's not a mental thing, he's here for the long haul with the contract so we need to look at getting a good coach in to work on his footwork and sort him out!

I could see it being the latter if this wasn't an issue when he had a fully healthy line in weeks one through three, but it was. I think he's just scared from that ACL tear.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

Criticizing him is fine.  His play deserves that but we don't need another Flacco sucks thread.  There are two in progess now.  We need a plan to fix it.  Why has he deteriorated so badly? Even his biggest critics have to admit that this is the worst they've seen him.  He's going downhill by the week.  How can we reverse that?  

Here's a start, trade for a damn lineman and don't throw the ball 50 times a game. Joe Thomas is ours if we wave a second round pick at the browns. Of course he gonna get crushed when the D knows your gonna pass 4 times out of 5! If he continues to regress or is banged up then bench him or he may never recover from this.

Bench him before he falls off that cliff! Bench him before he gets killed. Bench him before the team gives up on the coach for sticking with a QB thats playing he worst football in his life. Maybe tough love is the love Joe needs.

I'm not saying trade Joe or even think of getting rid of him. But its foolish to take the same approach every time and expect different results. The D and Special teams are playing their hearts out. Its only a matter of time until they give up and then its a rap.

we have 2 weeks to prepare for the Steelers. If Joe continues to play like this for whatever reason then its time to bench him untill hes physically and mentally 100 percent.

Edited by Halshayeji
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's what I saw on Sunday.

Flacco was what, 15-22 for 200 yards in the first half alone. Can't really ask for any more than that. Then NYJ did a great job adjusting defensively in the second half, obviously, but it goes deeper than that.

Flacco just was not himself that second half. Even his completions were poorly thrown passes. By poorly thrown, I mean they were catchable, but they were not put in good spots for his receivers to do anything with it after the catch. A lot of the passes were either behind the receiver or sailed up high. Now, I would point out the obvious in regards to his injuries, but that will just be labeled as a "homer excuse". He's making Brock Osweiller and Alex Smith money, so he is expected to move mountains no matter the circumstances.

Has he regressed this year, like some people are saying? No, not as far as I can see. I strongly disagree with that notion.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

This is a total myth in football. I don't know how a quarterback is even supposed to do this.

Even if it weren't a ridiculous myth, do people really think guys like Marlon Brown or Aiken have any success at all without a guy like Flacco? Why is it that every single receiver that has ever left for another team during the Flacco era played worse on his new team? Even Mark Clayton, who some people thought played better in STL after departing, didn't play any better, he just got a bunch more targets, and his stats were slightly better as a result.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

@sflegend89....

We've had some disagreements but this isn't one of them. Massive Flacco fan but his mechanics have gone to hell. Wonder if its the ACL/MCL. 

 

We need Zorn back lol

He is playing scared.Becasue the line is so terrible , he feels he needs to get rid of the ball sooner,thus he is not stepping into throws. 

With Zuttah at Center (hes gone next year,thank God) and being pushed backward all day long,it's tough to step forward. 

 

Edited by jimmypowder
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Even if it weren't a ridiculous myth, do people really think guys like Marlon Brown or Aiken have any success at all without a guy like Flacco? Why is it that every single receiver that has ever left for another team during the Flacco era played worse on his new team? Even Mark Clayton, who some people thought played better in STL after departing, didn't play any better, he just got a bunch more targets, and his stats were slightly better as a result.

I think most people realized that Marlon Brown was in a perfect situation in 2013 that really force-fed him passes. There was nothing to suggest he'd sustain his success. Also, the same for Aiken, although, I am very surprised he hasn't kept it up recently.

Anquan Boldin was arguably better in SF than he was in Baltimore. The only other real example we have is Torrey Smith and he's part of a dumpster fire team.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Build rapport with drafted WRs.  Flacco doesn't know how to do that well.   He had success with Torrey Smith.

He also has a very good rapport with Aiken and Pitta, two guys who have been Ravens their entire careers. In fact, a lot of Flacco's best throws this year seems to be when targeting Aiken.

There were plenty of other guys as well, but they were veterans brought in here, and for some reason that doesn't count to you, so I just named current players who started their careers here.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Tru11 said:

uhhh its possible.

Ball placement for instance can make a receiver look better or worse.

lets use the slant with the defender in a trailing position:
placing the ball in front of the receiver , so he can catch it and maintain momentum gives you a much higher % at a catch and YAC.
placing the ball behind him increases the difficulty of the catch and usually ends in a drop.
same with placing the ball at the feet.
a jump ball is about the worst options to throw as you are hanging the receiver out to dry and a drop is very high to occur.

now its pretty clear in which of these the receiver will look better and in which ones he will look worse.
1 he can look good with a catch and yac while the others he can be credited for  a drop and the blame for the play failing.


 

The key phrase you keep using is "look better". A good QB will not magically make their receivers beat the defender off the line or create separation. A good QB will take better advantage of these situations, sure, but a good QB cannot create these situations. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

That still isn't making a receiver better. 

That's simply the quarterback playing better.

Everything I'm hearing is simply the quarterback playing better, not the quarterback making the receiver play better.

If a receiver runs two routes the exact same way and one quarterback hits him in stride and the other throws behind him, is quarterback one really making the receiver better? No, the receiver didn't do anything different. That's simply the quarterback doing a better job.

No quarterback makes his wide receivers do their job better. The quarterback is just simply doing his job better.

well yeah that is true but i did not want to go there  for obvious reasons lol

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't get the point of these threads. He's not going anywhere. There's certainly fair criticism that can be made of Flacco, but this is getting ridiculous. :deadhorse:

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, terps85 said:

The key phrase you keep using is "look better". A good QB will not magically make their receivers beat the defender off the line or create separation. A good QB will take better advantage of these situations, sure, but a good QB cannot create these situations. 

actually they can create a better situation.

changing a route or play or tell a player to go in motion can create the desire situation.

not to mention adjusting the blocking  assignments can create enough time to get the play off.

when you have 4 wide and the defense still stacks the box with 7 , you are better off checking out of run.

if you already know the coverage before the snap you can make adjustments that can create a better situation for succes.

you can create certain situations with good preperations.

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

actually they can create a better situation.

changing a route or play or tell a player to go in motion can create the desire situation.

not to mention adjusting the blocking  assignments can create enough time to get the play off.

when you have 4 wide and the defense still stacks the box with 7 , you are better off checking out of run.

if you already know the coverage before the snap you can make adjustments that can create a better situation for succes.

you can create certain situations with good preperations.

 

 

Ok, but this is still the QB doing his job or playing better. The receiver still has to win, regardless of how favorable of a spot he is put in. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2671555-nfl1000-whats-the-cause-of-russell-wilsons-recent-struggles

The Ravens fans aren't the only ones making excuses for Joe Flacco. The above article is so littered with excuses that it's not even funny.

 

excuses or not, our issues on offense does not rest solely on the shoulders on Joe Flacco (pun intended). When was the last time we ever saw a WR make a catch down the middle and he was wide open for a big gain? Most of the big plays we have seen so far have been contested catches MUCH to the credit of Perriman making ridiculous adjustments mid air.

 

Does Flacco deserve the heat? Hell yea, and it's not because he gets paid all that money either. Flacco has shown a bit more patience this year then I've seen and has gone for stretches where he completes 10 plus passes in a row. The issue I see, Flacco is not throwing the ball with velocity (stepping into throws), the route running whether it be because of play calling or a miscommunication SUCKS, I've reviewed some plays where I am scratching my head. Where are the bunch formations, cross routes, plays designed to get our young legs running with a  head of steam across the middle? PA passing?

 

I am sick and tired of watching a 2nd and long be a short 5 yard completion to Mike Wallace.......what are the Ravens doing to take advantage of the players and abilities THEY have? Nothing....and to make matters worse Flacco has no confidence in himself it looks like..his footwork....

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A QB can most certainly make a WR LOOK better...or bring out that WRs fullest potential.  If that weren't true, then he'd play the same and perform the same with Flacco, Mallet, my mom...whoever.  Sharper reads, accuracy, quicker thinking, audibling out of trouble, etc all play into a QBs performance and ultimately the WRs performance.   This false narrative that a QB cant make those around him better is crap.  It's a team game.  As those around you play better, you play better. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, GhostofGrbac said:

At what point will you question Flacco? These coaches are not the reason his mechanics are awful, they're not the reason he struggles to identify an obvious blitz, they're not the reason Joe is locking onto his primary read.

Up until the last 2 seasons we were able to mask Joe's flaws with the run game. Now it's all on Joe's shoulders and he's showing that he can't handle it. For the money he makes he should be able to carry this team and make players around him better. And he's just not doing it.

There isn't a single player definitely not a QB who carries his team, regardless of pay. A completely baseless myth.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, terps85 said:

Ok, but this is still the QB doing his job or playing better. The receiver still has to win, regardless of how favorable of a spot he is put in. 

do you think a receiver has a better chance of winning when being put in a favorable spot or when being put in a bad spot?

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't believe I actually for once read the whole 5 page post.  It has some good arguments....

 

I came out with one summary about QBs and WRs discussion is that it is a TEAM work to make everything happened. It starts from top to bottom of the organization.

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have always been an Joe supporter (still am), always been happy he's our guy even though he doesnt throw for 4k yards and 40TDs, i never cared about that because he shows up in January, ask Matt Ryan how those stats are doing for him.  But i have no issue admitting Joe is just straight up sucking, i dont know if it has anything to do with the ACL or not, but i would think it does.  I like many were extremely excited to see what Joe could do with the weapons he has this year.  He is throwing off his backfoot, doesnt look accurate at all, pocket awareness has always been terrible.  Does he need a better QB coach? Obviously needs better OLine play, oh, and a run game would be nice.   I just have no clue where to go now. 

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, flynismo said:

Here's what I saw on Sunday.

Flacco was what, 15-22 for 200 yards in the first half alone. Can't really ask for any more than that. Then NYJ did a great job adjusting defensively in the second half, obviously, but it goes deeper than that.

Flacco just was not himself that second half. Even his completions were poorly thrown passes. By poorly thrown, I mean they were catchable, but they were not put in good spots for his receivers to do anything with it after the catch. A lot of the passes were either behind the receiver or sailed up high. Now, I would point out the obvious in regards to his injuries, but that will just be labeled as a "homer excuse". He's making Brock Osweiller and Alex Smith money, so he is expected to move mountains no matter the circumstances.

Has he regressed this year, like some people are saying? No, not as far as I can see. I strongly disagree with that notion.

Cortisone shots, or whatever "treatment" he got during warmups wore off, plain and simple. Harbaugh was too sick with the stomach flu to notice. Joe should have been benched, let's see what happens with two weeks of ice and rest.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now