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sflegend89

Joe Flacco: Tough Talk

3,214 posts in this topic

in all honesty i am a flacco supporter, and he has been playing terrible,

He is constantly throwing off his back foot making his passes terrible, watch some game film and check out the wobble of the ball on his throws, He is still however a good QB when he steps into his throws, far more accurate and a way higher completion percentage,

Last years ACL injury has really messed him up mentally, He is afraid to take the hit that he has taken his entire career, whitch i dont really understand since he was hurt being rolled up on by his own Offensive Lineman and not an actual opposition player.

His gun shyness this year is far more noticeable this season, weather it is because he doesnt have the chemisty with his recivers; or that mentally he doesnt think he can make the throw is anyone's guess, Joe has steadily become more and more gun shy going back to the 2013 season, I personally have found my self yelling at the TV or at the game to 'Fire It' more and more often.

Personally i believe some of his trouble is that he wasnt mentally ready to come back on the field after a season ending injury, i also believe some of his problems are associated with the terrible line play that has given him less time in the pocket and few opportunities to step into his throws: this seems to be the case as he has progressively gotten worse as injuries to the O line have mounted.

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Just now, OUravensfan said:

 

Ravens Reddit, a PFF account holder summarized some stats right before the Jets game

 

So since you have pff account, you can post it here.  

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Joe wasn't playing lights out before his injury last year so I'm ready to question his coaching. Wasn't Mornhingweg brought in last year to be his QB coach?  Maybe he undid all of Kubiak's good work. 

 

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1 minute ago, MTRavensFan said:

Mods are people, too, and we're allowed to have opinions. You still haven't answered my question - Wasn't it obvious Harbs should have benched Joe in the 2nd half?

 

Opinions are fine by me.   Just don't commingle your moderator power to use your biasness to harass people and treat them in different manner.   


What question are you referring to?  Post it here.

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Just now, Moderator 3 said:

Joe wasn't playing lights out before his injury last year so I'm ready to question his coaching. Wasn't Mornhingweg brought in last year to be his QB coach?  Maybe he undid all of Kubiak's good work. 

 

 

So Mornhingweg is scapegoat #2.   Joe must be pretty susceptible to forgetting good mechanics then?

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1 minute ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

So Mornhingweg is scapegoat #2.   Joe must be pretty susceptible to forgetting good mechanics then?

So, you explain the difference between 2014 and since then.  

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6 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Opinions are fine by me.   Just don't commingle your moderator power to use your biasness to harass people and treat them in different manner.   


What question are you referring to?  Post it here.

Quote

I'm biased because I said Harbaugh should have recognized Joe's injury and benched him in the 2nd half? What, are you saying you DIDN'T want Joe benched?

This question. I've asked it four times now, and you refuse to answer. Again, ALL QB's are competitive, and will insist on playing despite being hurt. It's up to the HC to draw the line.

 And, for the record, I have NEVER used my "moderator powers" to silence or harass you. You must have me confused with someone else. Or you're simply trolling.

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3 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

So, you explain the difference between 2014 and since then.  

Could be Gary is one heck of a OC.  He did made Matt Schuab a pro-bowler.   2014 is an anomaly.    Look what Gary is doing w/ Broncos QB 3rd rounder Trevor Siemian.  Or look at Brock Osweiler w/ Gary last year to give him a fat contract.   

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1 minute ago, MTRavensFan said:

This question. I've asked it four times now, and you refuse to answer. Again, ALL QB's are competitive, and will insist on playing despite being hurt. It's up to the HC to draw the line.

 And, for the record, I have NEVER used my "moderator powers" to silence or harass you. You must have me confused with someone else. Or you're simply trolling.

 

Harbaugh seems to have a soft spot with Flacco.  He has been pretty clear he hold no questions when it comes to his QB.   I have a feeling he might force himself to draw the line if this keeps repeating on next few games.

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They said before the game Harbaugh had the stomach flu. I honestly think he was just trying to get through the day. I knew he wasn't himself when he didn't go for it on 4th down. And Joe was obviously struggling.

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1 hour ago, sflegend89 said:

Joe Flacco: 12th most sacked QB, sacked 14 times, 5 TD's, 6 INT's, 75.4 QBR

Andrew Luck: 1st most sacked QB, sacked 25 times, 14 TD's, 4 INT's, 98.3 QBR

Matt Ryan: Tied for 3rd most sacked QB, sacked 18 times, 16 TD's, 4 INT's, 113.6 QBR

Matthew Stafford: Tied for 3rd most sacked QB, sacked 18 times, 15 TD's, 4 INT's, 105.7 QBR

Philip Rivers: 6th most sacked QB, Sacked 17 times, 13 TD'S, 4 INT's, 102.4 QBR

Facts:

- Joe Flacco has the 29th worst QBR in the NFL 

- Andrew Luck has been sacked NEARLY TWICE as much as Joe Flacco yet is dominating him in every statistical category, Colts have what many feel is worst OL in football

- Only other QB's besides Flacco in entire NFL with negative TD-INT ratio are Case Keenum and Ryan Fitzpatrick

 

Enough excuses for Joe, I'm a long time supporter of his even through rough patches but this is different. This year so far he's not elite... not average... not even below average, he's amongst the very worst starting QB's in the entire NFL. Everything from his mechanics, to his accuracy, to his overall passing stats tell us so. Guys like Rivers have comparable weapons/OL and are blowing him out of the water.

 

But are any of them just coming off multiple torn ligaments in their left knee 8 months ago? As much as I don't like Flacco's performance this year and I've been pretty vocal about it, I think this is unfair. The knee could be a big reason why Flacco is so tentative and perhaps has adversely affected his mechanics and accuracy. But, if that isn't the reason he's struggling then it is a very fair comparison to put up these stats to show that we may be wrong in our assessment of Flacco's toughness. But, for now I'm sticking with he's coming off a major injury.

Edited by ellicottraven
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17 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

Joe wasn't playing lights out before his injury last year so I'm ready to question his coaching. Wasn't Mornhingweg brought in last year to be his QB coach?  Maybe he undid all of Kubiak's good work. 

 

At what point will you question Flacco? These coaches are not the reason his mechanics are awful, they're not the reason he struggles to identify an obvious blitz, they're not the reason Joe is locking onto his primary read.

Up until the last 2 seasons we were able to mask Joe's flaws with the run game. Now it's all on Joe's shoulders and he's showing that he can't handle it. For the money he makes he should be able to carry this team and make players around him better. And he's just not doing it.

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58 minutes ago, GhostofGrbac said:

So basically don't criticize Joe? 

Or, I don't know, get more creative than stats and post what you see on the field instead of saying he sucks. Very productive for discussion.

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28 minutes ago, MTRavensFan said:

This question. I've asked it four times now, and you refuse to answer. Again, ALL QB's are competitive, and will insist on playing despite being hurt. It's up to the HC to draw the line.

 And, for the record, I have NEVER used my "moderator powers" to silence or harass you. You must have me confused with someone else. Or you're simply trolling.

If you follow his posts, this is pretty obvious. He attacks the mods quite frequently and sees no issue with his own actions.

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1 hour ago, Moderator 3 said:

No merge from me (for now). This one is different from the not practicing and the rather have threads.  If it morphs into "rather have" it will get merged, though.  I just ask that you try to be more original than "he sucks, bench him".  That's old and not productive.  A list of his faults will get us nowhere.

What exactly are you implying here? These boards are meant to express our concerns for our team the Baltimore Ravens. If Flacco is underperforming or if he is perceived to be underperforming, there is no other forum for us to voice our views and get opposing view to counter that. Censoring in any form is not beneficial to the fans of this team. Its my opinion to be candid with you.

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9 minutes ago, GhostofGrbac said:

At what point will you question Flacco? These coaches are not the reason his mechanics are awful, they're not the reason he struggles to identify an obvious blitz, they're not the reason Joe is locking onto his primary read.

Up until the last 2 seasons we were able to mask Joe's flaws with the run game. Now it's all on Joe's shoulders and he's showing that he can't handle it. For the money he makes he should be able to carry this team and make players around him better. And he's just not doing it.

This is a total myth in football. I don't know how a quarterback is even supposed to do this.

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1 hour ago, Moderator 3 said:

Criticizing him is fine.  His play deserves that but we don't need another Flacco sucks thread.  There are two in progess now.  We need a plan to fix it.  Why has he deteriorated so badly? Even his biggest critics have to admit that this is the worst they've seen him.  He's going downhill by the week.  How can we reverse that?  

How can we possibly reverse that Mod? Its up to the coaches and Joe to reverse that! All we can do is observe and relay our observations vis-a-vis these threads. We may make suggestions on what he must do, but seriously how do we affect change in Joe's play? Come on now! One of the benefits of these threads is that management can glean the general mood of the fan base and who they feel are affecting the season. After all the NFL is a fan based, revenue based league. The fans mean everything to them right?

Edited by ellicottraven
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Flacco is clearly playing poorly. I could point out some dropped passes and poor blocking but the fact is Joe could overcome a lot of the limitations this offense has if he was playing at a high level. He's not stepping into throws, he's not giving his WRs a lot of RAC opportunities because he's not delivering accurate balls. 

He's struggling right now no doubt. However I'd still like to see him have a clean pocket more often than he has. I won't make any excuses because it helps no one, but what i will say about those sack totals and QB hits, it doesn't tell the entire story. I agree with whoever said pressures and hurries are probably more important in terms of disrupting a passing game. One clear example of this is the first 3rd down of the Jets game. The Ravens had Pitta matched up 1on1 with a LB with no one else within 20 yards. If Flacco has time to wait for Pitta to come open it's a huge play and probably sets up a scoring drive. However Urschel and Lewis couldn't handle a simple twist and Flacco had to get rid of the ball early. That wasn't a sack it was a QB hit, but the quick pressure forced Flacco to throw the ball before designed. 

Now with that said there has been times when Flacco had plenty of time to develop a good ball and he didn't. He's been reluctant to step into his throws so far this year. I don't know if its a lack of confidence in his knee, his blocking or he's just regressing as a QB. Whatever it is, it must improve.   

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3 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

This is a total myth in football. I don't know how a quarterback is even supposed to do this.

So a guy like Brees doesn't make the players around him better? How about Brady turning a converted QB into a stud slot WR?

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Just now, GhostofGrbac said:

So a guy like Brees doesn't make the players around him better? How about Brady turning a converted QB into a stud slot WR?

How do they make them better? Answer that.

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Just now, Ravensfan23 said:

Flacco is clearly playing poorly. I could point out some dropped passes and poor blocking but the fact is Joe could overcome a lot of the limitations this offense has if he was playing at a high level. He's not stepping into throws, he's not giving his WRs a lot of RAC opportunities because he's not delivering accurate balls. 

He's struggling right now no doubt. However I'd still like to see him have a clean pocket more often than he has. I won't make any excuses because it helps no one, but what i will say about those sack totals and QB hits, it doesn't tell the entire story. I agree with whoever said pressures and hurries are probably more important in terms of disrupting a passing game. One clear example of this is the first 3rd down of the Jets game. The Ravens had Pitta matched up 1on1 with a LB with no one else within 20 yards. If Flacco has time to wait for Pitta to come open it's a huge play and probably sets up a scoring drive. However Urschel and Lewis couldn't handle a simple twist and Flacco had to get rid of the ball early. That wasn't a sack it was a QB hit, but the quick pressure forced Flacco to throw the ball before designed. 

Now with that said there has been times when Flacco had plenty of time to develop a good ball and he didn't. He's been reluctant to step into his throws so far this year. I don't know if its a lack of confidence in his knee, his blocking or he's just regressing as a QB. Whatever it is, it must improve.   

It would go a long way in calming nerves if Flacco just took full responsibility for his poor play this season and use "I" instead of "we" every time he's asked of the loss. I realize its a team sport but this last game (fresh in my memory) is totallya attributable to Joe's INTS. It cost us 10 points and all he did was help us get 6. If he acknowledges that something is up that he needs to figure out and work on, the whole fan base will pick him up and encourage him! Don't forget most of the posters on this board are big fans of his.

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Flacco topics always seem to rub us Ravens fans the wrong way. Guy played out of his mind that super bowl run....where did that go?

Right now it's pretty obvious he isn't comfortable with his personnel, which is an issue. However, Joe shouldn't get off the hook that easy.

I think we need a restructure badly..

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3 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

How do they make them better? Answer that.

Build rapport with drafted WRs.  Flacco doesn't know how to do that well.   He had success with Torrey Smith.   Other than that he needs a probowl veteran.

 

Just look at what brees has as his receivers, or Philip rivers.  Flacco has to be the guide to build chemistry to the guys entering into the league.   Flacco got the money, he needs to do a little bit of that too.  That is a component Flacco has difficulty doing.  

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1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

How do they make them better? Answer that.

Guys with marginal talent have turned into stars playing with guys like Brees and Brady. Take Marques Colton for example. A 7th round picked turned into one of the best WR's in the game for a few years. Do you honestly think Brees had nothing to do with that?

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2 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Build rapport with drafted WRs.  Flacco doesn't know how to do that well.   He had success with Torrey Smith.   Other than that he needs a probowl veteran.

 

Just look at what brees has as his receivers, or Philip rivers.  Flacco has to be the guide to build chemistry to the guys entering into the league.   Flacco got the money, he needs to do a little bit of that too.  That is a component Flacco has difficulty doing.  

How do we measure chemistry or the rapport they built?

Also, that doesn't make them better. It just helps make passes easier to connect on from both sides.

Edited by BmoreBird22
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1 minute ago, GhostofGrbac said:

Guys with marginal talent have turned into stars playing with guys like Brees and Brady. Take Marques Colton for example. A 7th round picked turned into one of the best WR's in the game for a few years. Do you honestly think Brees had nothing to do with that?

You have yet to answer how he would make them better.

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7 minutes ago, FastEddie said:

Flacco topics always seem to rub us Ravens fans the wrong way. Guy played out of his mind that super bowl run....where did that go?

Right now it's pretty obvious he isn't comfortable with his personnel, which is an issue. However, Joe shouldn't get off the hook that easy.

I think we need a restructure badly..

Not taking anything away from Flacco. That was an incredible super bowl run, but anyone that thought he would be able to sustain that level of play is crazy.

That 4 game stretch didn't wipe away his inconsistencies through out his career leading up to the super bowl and now.

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4 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

How do we measure chemistry or the rapport they built?

Also, that doesn't make them better. It just helps make passes easier to connect on from both sides.

 

Better is probably not the best word.   If you have a good QB, that QB knows how to supplement a poor receiver.  Just like a poor QB w/ great WRs can supplement off their talent to the other party.   

Not sure what more you are asking for.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Better is probably not the best word.   If you have a good QB, that QB knows how to supplement a poor receiver.  Just like a poor QB w/ great WRs can supplement off their talent to the other party.   

Not sure what more you are asking for.

I'm asking how a quarterback can elevate the play of those around him, since that is what was posted exactly a page ago. It wasn't by you, so don't worry about it, but a great quarterback can't make receivers better.

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6 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

You have yet to answer how he would make them better.

Give them opportunities to make plays, trust in them, switch up calls to put them in a position to succeed on the field.

There have been a few examples posted in this thread and refuse to acknowledge them. Probably because it doesn't fit your narrative.

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