Joe Flacco: Tough Talk

[JoeyFlex5]

46 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

we should have kept trent dilfer then..

Because Trent dilfer carried us to our 2000 super bowl... 

Joe on the other hand kinda did carry us to that super bowl. He was without question the biggest reason we won it all, he was nothing short of amazing in that run. 

Use some context.

[jdynamite]

On 10/24/2016 at 8:54 PM, OUravensfan said:

Sack numbers alone don't paint the entire story of the pass protection situations for all those teams. Flacco has been the most hurried QB in the league by volume and that's exactly what we didn't need the year after an ACL

Post these stats! I don't have access to any pay for sites like PFF and when I tried to find anything I was unsuccessful I know these metrics exist somewhere because NFL analysts have to talk about them. 

Now I'm assuming you have the stats because you stated it definitively.   

When watching a live game it may seem like a QB is hurried or hit more often than they are, because they leave the pocket too soon, panic and make a bad throw or after the play we see them get up from a shove or linemen being pushed into them.

Perfect example would be versus the Jets there was a play in the 3rd quarter where jet defender tried to beat the LT on the edge but was blocked wide, Flacco tries to take off to the right slips and falls & throws the ball away. ( The Commentator says oh Flacco avoided the sack as he was tripped up, but after 2 replays we see the defender never touched Flacco and was at least a foot or 2 from his feet lol ). So in live action we think he was hurried again in reality, he could have stepped in or to the right for more time in the pocket. 

[Sami84]

20 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Because Trent dilfer carried us to our 2000 super bowl... 

Joe on the other hand kinda did carry us to that super bowl. He was without question the biggest reason we won it all, he was nothing short of amazing in that run. 

Use some context.

 

Here is some context for you. Based on his form outside of the 2012 post season, i can safely conclude that flaccos post-season run in 2012 was an aberration that will never happen again and it is more likely that due to this flukey 2012 post season we wont be making the playoffs until flacco is off the books.

[flynismo]

Amazing how one person enters the thread and it all goes from fun exchanges / debates into the same old crap

[Tank 92]

13 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Amazing how one person enters the thread and it all goes from fun exchanges / debates into the same old crap

Just ignore and don't reply. 

[gtalk12]

49 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

Here is some context for you. Based on his form outside of the 2012 post season, i can safely conclude that flaccos post-season run in 2012 was an aberration that will never happen again and it is more likely that due to this flukey 2012 post season we wont be making the playoffs until flacco is off the books.

 

This is completely incorrect. I did you the favor and pulled up the stats of Joe the year BEFORE the SB run and the 2 years after with Kubiak (we missed the playoffs after the SB)

 

176 yards 2TDs, 306 yards 2TDs Int <-----that was the heartbreaking loss to the Pats and the Cundiff missed FG

Kubiak offense

259 yards 2TD's and 292 yards 4 TD's 2ints

 

that's a total of 1,033 yards in 4 PLAYOFF games 10TD's and 3ints without including his SB run.....this proves that something is off with him and the offense during the regular season, HOWEVER it is not up for debate as to what he can do in the playoffs. So no, you are wrong to say it was an aberration,  the difference was TJ Whosyourmomma was not there to drop a ball put in his chest and Lee Evans did not drop the TD......

[gtalk12]

if you include the sb run, that's 21 TD's and 3ints, Joe's QBR has not dipped below 90 in the last 4 playoff runs we had...you would have to go as far back as 09 and 08 when he first appeared

[gtalk12]

NOW, it drives us ALL UP A WALL AT THE FACT THAT FLACCO AND THE OFFENSE NEVER SEEM to be able to put it together during the regular season....it seems like they have a separate playbook for the playoffs, the coaches must be getting together and saying "man these plays work, let's not use them up during the regular season and catch everybody by surprise"

 

the offense does not seem to be playing to Flacco's or the WR's strength and it completely leaves me confused. It makes absolutely NO sense how effective Flacco is in the playoffs where the games are harder to the regular season. In my opinion, the plays they call are monotonous. There isn't any umfff, there's no "hey Flacco is really good at this one thing so let's take advantage of it" he's a pocket guy who isn't going to light it up with his legs. Where are the PA's passes and routes that allow him to take advantage of his big arm? everything seems to be a floater to a guy running a straight line up the field

[flynismo]

11 minutes ago, gtalk12 said:

This is completely incorrect

That guy and facts are mortal enemies.

[Sami84]

13 minutes ago, gtalk12 said:

 

This is completely incorrect. I did you the favor and pulled up the stats of Joe the year BEFORE the SB run and the 2 years after with Kubiak (we missed the playoffs after the SB)

 

176 yards 2TDs, 306 yards 2TDs Int <-----that was the heartbreaking loss to the Pats and the Cundiff missed FG

Kubiak offense

259 yards 2TD's and 292 yards 4 TD's 2ints

 

that's a total of 1,033 yards in 4 PLAYOFF games 10TD's and 3ints without including his SB run.....this proves that something is off with him and the offense during the regular season, HOWEVER it is not up for debate as to what he can do in the playoffs. So no, you are wrong to say it was an aberration,  the difference was TJ Whosyourmomma was not there to drop a ball put in his chest and Lee Evans did not drop the TD......

 

 

What about the games vs the texans in 2011? what about his meh numbers in the playoff games aside from those you mentioned (2008,2009,2010 etc)? he's shown that hes a 60/40 guy...60% of his games will be below average. 

Oh and regular seasons count for something too. A football game is a football game.. he's the most inconsistant QB i've ever watched that's been given this much cash. Outside of Jay cutler there is NO one in the league who is less value for money.

[Sami84]

Its weird how the RSF forum seem to be the one who have seen flacco for who he is, was and will continue to be..although probably worse..

Read the recent RSF thread on Flacco..

 

http://forum.russellstreetreport.com/showthread.php?148183-5-Touchdowns-6-Interceptions

[jboy19]

2 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

Its weird how the RSF forum seem to be the one who have seen flacco for who he is, was and will continue to be..although probably worse..

Read the recent RSF thread on Flacco..

 

http://forum.russellstreetreport.com/showthread.php?148183-5-Touchdowns-6-Interceptions

Well they're just going off stats. Stats don't account for situational football. 

[usmccharles]

26 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

Well they're just going off stats. Stats don't account for situational football. 

Don't feed the troll man....this has gone on forever and will until Joe retires/cut which wont be for awhile. 

[gtalk12]

43 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

 

What about the games vs the texans in 2011? what about his meh numbers in the playoff games aside from those you mentioned (2008,2009,2010 etc)? he's shown that hes a 60/40 guy...60% of his games will be below average. 

Oh and regular seasons count for something too. A football game is a football game.. he's the most inconsistant QB i've ever watched that's been given this much cash. Outside of Jay cutler there is NO one in the league who is less value for money.

I addressed that in the very next post...but whatever, I say potatoes and you say something completely different.

[gtalk12]

45 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

 

What about the games vs the texans in 2011? what about his meh numbers in the playoff games aside from those you mentioned (2008,2009,2010 etc)? he's shown that hes a 60/40 guy...60% of his games will be below average. 

Oh and regular seasons count for something too. A football game is a football game.. he's the most inconsistant QB i've ever watched that's been given this much cash. Outside of Jay cutler there is NO one in the league who is less value for money.

 

Tell that to Phill Rivers and Matt Ryan who light it up every year and for what? You want those stats for our QB so bad you fail to realize those are not the QB's winning championships, period. Flacco deserves to be critiqued, I am not saying he is perfect. You are off base to say he is being paid to much when roughly 65% of his contract is guaranteed, in comparison Kirk Cousin yearly vs Flacco makes 19.9 to Flaccos 22.1 AND Cousins is 100 percent guaranteed and what has he EVER done or will do?

 

Carson Palmer? 21.0

Andrew Luck who has done NOTHING 24.5

 

Tannehill? 19.2

 

Tyrod Taylor our boy gets 18.

 

again, Flacco is not clear of issues....he has PLENTY but I'll take him any day of the week (as long as it's in the playoffs lol) over those guys easily and that includes R. Wilson who also makes 21.9 smh

 

 

[Sami84]

13 minutes ago, gtalk12 said:

 

Tell that to Phill Rivers and Matt Ryan who light it up every year and for what? You want those stats for our QB so bad you fail to realize those are not the QB's winning championships, period. Flacco deserves to be critiqued, I am not saying he is perfect. You are off base to say he is being paid to much when roughly 65% of his contract is guaranteed, in comparison Kirk Cousin yearly vs Flacco makes 19.9 to Flaccos 22.1 AND Cousins is 100 percent guaranteed and what has he EVER done or will do?

 

Carson Palmer? 21.0

Andrew Luck who has done NOTHING 24.5

 

Tannehill? 19.2

 

Tyrod Taylor our boy gets 18.

 

again, Flacco is not clear of issues....he has PLENTY but I'll take him any day of the week (as long as it's in the playoffs lol) over those guys easily and that includes R. Wilson who also makes 21.9 smh

 

 

 

So bascially what you're saying is that because of the 2012 post season it is IMPOSSIBLE to consider those QBS you mentioned better value for money.

 

right.

 

homer central..no point discussing. 

[Sami84]

oh excuse me i'll put flacco in company with cutler and tannehil. 

[flynismo]

8 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

homer central..no point discussing. 

But yet you can't seem to stop talking

[jazz1988]

9 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Brees has had some terrible OLs and some average WRs to work with and still makes them look great. In 2013, Brady had a very poor group of WRs after Gronk went out along with an OL that was pretty average and with the season he had, I would say he looked pretty impressive. Guys like Kembrell Thompkins and Aaron Dobson are pretty much irrelevant and those guys put up nearly 1000 combined, they're FAs now. Peyton had some poor teams over his time Indianapolis as well. 

Yes, every QB does need some help, but some guys are just so great that you can indeed give them a bit less than others but still succeed. I don't know if Joe is that kind of guy you can do that with. 

Both Thompkins and Dobson put up average receiving numbers and caught atleast 49% of their passes. That's not great  or good . I even remember in 2010 when Peyton Manning was having a tough time while  throwing to young inexperienced receivers. Who did Drew Brees really make look  great besides Marques Colston  and Brandin Cook. It's not like Drew Brees  was producing a factor of 1,000 receiving yards + out of any receiver and every receiver he was throwing too.  All these quarterbacks are great  and future hall of famers but i can't pretend like they didn't need a good supporting cast to be successful in this league and again i think it's highly beneficially for these  guys to be in one offensive system for some many years.

 

What offensive system has Joe Flacco really grown into and evolved over the years?

[trevorsteadman]

The whole offense isn't playing well... Positional coaches on offense have failed to create playmakers for so long now. Doesn't help when your best target has been out and the offensive line is one of the worst in the league right now. Can't we leave it at that?

[mmcclend]

1 hour ago, Sami84 said:

Its weird how the RSF forum seem to be the one who have seen flacco for who he is, was and will continue to be..although probably worse..

Read the recent RSF thread on Flacco..

 

http://forum.russellstreetreport.com/showthread.php?148183-5-Touchdowns-6-Interceptions

This isn't anything new, that board is way more honest lol. Flacco has not lived up to his money and anybody who feels he has is a homer. That's why we lack young playmakers and depend on old cast away vets to be our best players.(hence why we are always so injured). I love flacco but I can say he's not worth 20+mill and that price tag somewhat holds us back. The fact we're paying him that much is moreso ozzies fault than flaccos though. 

[usmccharles]

6 minutes ago, mmcclend said:

This isn't anything new, that board is way more honest lol. Flacco has not lived up to his money and anybody who feels he has is a homer. That's why we lack young playmakers and depend on old cast away vets to be our best players.(hence why we are always so injured). I love flacco but I can say he's not worth 20+mill and that price tag somewhat holds us back. The fact we're paying him that much is moreso ozzies fault than flaccos though. 

Joe's contract has nothing to do with not having young playmakers. Where do playmakers come from...the draft. I will agree that he isn't living up to his contract and im a big supporter of Joe, but your take on playmakers is false, we need to draft better. 

Edited October 31, 2016 by usmccharles

[Sami84]

Just now, usmccharles said:

Joe's contract has nothing to do with not having young playmakers? Where do playmakers come from...the draft. I will agree that he isn't living up to his contract and im a big supporter of Joe, but your take on playmakers is false, we need to draft better. 

 

joe doesnt put in the work on an emotional level with young recievers. Great QB's make average talents effective. Joe needs boldins and masons and Steve smiths to get him out of trouble.

[mmcclend]

2 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Joe's contract has nothing to do with not having young playmakers? Where do playmakers come from...the draft. I will agree that he isn't living up to his contract and im a big supporter of Joe, but your take on playmakers is false, we need to draft better. 

I made a thread on that already and 90% of the board disagreed that we needed to draft better. So which one is it?

[usmccharles]

Just now, mmcclend said:

I made a thread on that already and 90% of the board disagreed that we needed to draft better. So which one is it?

Ive stated before we need to draft better.  Just because I say we need to draft better doesn't mean im on board the 'fire the FO' wagon.  I like some of the guys we've drafted, don't like some we've drafted. 

[Sami84]

1 minute ago, usmccharles said:

Ive stated before we need to draft better.  Just because I say we need to draft better doesn't mean im on board the 'fire the FO' wagon.  I like some of the guys we've drafted, don't like some we've drafted. 

 

so basically nothing changes..fluko, FO and harbs stay for the next 3 years and we miss the playoffs ..

we would have had SO much more power to make real changes if we didnt give joe that extension. Dumbest move in years.

[Ravenseconbeast]

2 hours ago, flynismo said:

That guy and facts are mortal enemies.

Still waiting on that fact on Flacco being the 'most pressured QB' this season.   I looked at your past post past 2 weeks like you told me.  Havent ever wrote anything like it.  

Let me know when you find this 'fact'

[gtalk12]

1 hour ago, Sami84 said:

So bascially what you're saying is that because of the 2012 post season it is IMPOSSIBLE to consider those QBS you mentioned better value for money.

 

right.

 

homer central..no point discussing. 

no because I was VERY clear that outside that run he has been very good in the playoffs but you know, I say potatoes and you say how high. You keep on crying about Flacco this and Flacco that as if I said he stays completely clear of any blame. 

 

That being said, it makes absolutely no, NO NO NO NO SENSE to have not signed him. Unless you really want to start over, we have a starting QB that has proven time and time again to be very good in the playoffs. We have no consistency from Flacco, and that includes coaching on the offensive side of the ball. What you and many others do not want to understand or acknowledge is the fact that we have had major turnover at the OC spot. What form of consistency could you every hope for when Flacco and this offense completely change its identity every year? 

 

It went from Cam developing with Flacco, which he did by running the ball and playing uptempo shotgun/bunch formations until we became too stagnant on offense. Then enter Caldwell, took over what Cam had done and did a bit better that same year and we won the chip. What happened the very next year? Everyone left on the offense, Ray Rice never returned to form with his hip injury and Caldwell leaves for a gig over in Detroit.

 

Enter the next year, Kubiak....best of Flacco and what we HAD on offense. Did well in the playoffs and beat the Steelers and almost take the Pats out again in their house. Why did we lose? Was it that pass to Torrey or the fact we had no NO way of stopping the same play from happening to our CB's who to be fair were forced to start thanks to all the injuries we had that year.

 

Instead of building the next year into an even better offense Kubiak left....are you and I watching the same games? Flacco is not and will never be Manning who by the way had the SAME OC for over 8 years. Tom Moore was with Indi for 10 years and developed that playbook with Manning.

 

these are all facts and do not change in anyway the fact that Flacco still misses throws no matter who the OC is. Again, some of the blame falls on him but not all and bringing up the contract is pointless because it has nothing to do with Doom and Suggs being injured or Reed and Lewis leaving the team and getting old.

 

 

[flynismo]

11 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Still waiting on that fact on Flacco being the 'most pressured QB' this season.   I looked at your past post past 2 weeks like you told me.  Havent ever wrote anything like it.  

Let me know when you find this 'fact'

Well, since you at least put forth the effort to try to find it, I did the same and looked it up for you; here it is: 

http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/70548-merged-qbs-youd-rather-have-than-flacco/?do=findComment&comment=2473862

Now, please do also read the very next comment by me right underneath that. That's what passes for "logic" in the media?

Edited October 31, 2016 by flynismo

[PurpleCity5]

10 hours ago, Maryland said:

I know I'm not really responding to the message of your quote, but this stat always kind of irked me. I look at offensive TDs scored as a team stat. If the QB is getting the team down to the 1-yard line and then the RB plunges in for a TD, it seems to me the QB should get as much credit as the RB and the rest of the offense--the TD is the result of the entire drive, something all of the offensive players likely played a part in. Terrance West scored 2 TDs at the Giants on the goal line, but it could possibly have been two passing TDs had they attempted a pass there instead. It's a gimmicky stat.

It's not troubling to you that he only has 5 TD passes in week 8? I know that getting to the redzone is different but 5 TD passes through 8 weeks is not good at all. Also, I agree and disagree about the statement that an offensive TD is a team stat. Yes, everyone deserves credit all around, but the reason why you can't ignore the passing TD stat is simply because all QBs have the responsibility of driving down the field. Flacco is not the only QB in the league getting credit for that. Also, when we evaluate the rushing statistics overall, the Ravens are a mere 22nd in the league in Rushing TDs, so the case of offensive TDs does not help in Flacco's case at all. What's even more damning is that if you combine the offensive TDs overall, then you have a grand total of 10 Touchdowns, which 14 Qbs have thrown more than. I honestly don't think passing TD is a gimmicky stat at all.