Joe Flacco: Tough Talk

[ThatsMyJoeTerback]

1 hour ago, RayRayRaven said:

with you on tradin joe. theres still a window, we need our leadars to be men of courage and have a comprehensuv plan. this is not jus about joe, but he is the tool to work this machine

it is much more than possible.

the move to get free of joe does involve some dismantle and draffing hi with th e pics we get and our own higher draff position. but you picture it a much longer rebuilt than it will be. we must pic well but we will be pickin high. very high. we can be the bess team in the leage by 2019 2020 fur sur

you say it but you doan understan it. 

cleveland is the one team joe can school. they are stil our oyster if we have the resolushion.

prolly not joe got his check and hes more than happy

joe has 9 yrs in and one time where he plays good for 4 wks. he stil has residual value cuz of that but we must take ou r profit on this stock.  it time to sell high and go back and buy low.

for real?

matt ryan

tom brady

dak prescot

aron rodgers

dree brees

kick cousin

andy luck

matt staffords

ty taylor

andy luck

alex smith

marcas mariatta

jamis winson

phil rivers

russl wilson

derak carr

sam bradford

carson palmer.

joe flacco, joe is the holder of many many interestin stats none I wanna talke about here though. I want to trade him this yr.

PFT commenter spells better than you.

I'd remove Dak, Cousins, Tyrod, Smith, Mariota, Winston, Wilson, Bradford, and Palmer

[usmccharles]

I think i might actually miss the delusion and grammar errors from someone on here.   But i doubt it.

[Jonah DeVito]

3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I don't think Winston is there yet in terms of being better, but I think he's going to be soon. He's got a very bright future. I think Mariota needs to be asked to carry more of the offense before I can say he's in the upper echelon. 

I can't say Cam. One good season and that's really it. He makes more impressive plays with his legs than arm, in my opinion, and that's not what you're paying him for.

I would absolutely put Bradford up there. Bradford had one amazing season last year with one of the worst supporting casts in the NFL. Despite this, he was one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL under pressure and rarely made mistakes. If he could have a quality supporting cast and stay consistently healthy, he can be a real game changer.

With Rivers, I just don't see it. Just too inconsistent and way too turnover prone for my liking. 

With Stafford, he's one I would have never said, but recently, he's picked up his individual play so much that I can't leave him off that list. 

I'm not a fan of Wilson. We saw when he didn't have his legs to rely on that his production dropped heavily. He's just not meant to be a pocket passer. He needs those legs to open up throwing windows for him.

Rivers has regressed as he's gotten older, but he's definitely been in the conversation for the top 5 QBs in the past 10 years or so. If he's hot, he's freaking hot. 

[Jonah DeVito]

8 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

I'll bite

rodgers

brady

ben

brees

carr

luck

wilson

ryan

Bias aside, Ben is overrated. 

[Tru11]

5 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The slightest criticism is met a flurry of excuses. This thread doesn't really have an in-between. It's either people who really hate Joe or people who absolutely love Flacco and would go to the end of the Earth to defend him. Very few in betweens.

dont forget that those excuses are only exclusive to him as well.

god forbid you use them for others QBs or even other ravens players lol.

[rossihunter2]

4 hours ago, ThatsMyJoeTerback said:

PFT commenter spells better than you.

I'd remove Dak, Cousins, Tyrod, Smith, Mariota, Winston, Wilson, Bradford, and Palmer

And don't forget about that second Andy luck

[arnie_uk]

6 hours ago, Wisdom said:

I say as much!

Yea but no one listens to you because you take the hate to another level

[mc_red23]

2 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

And don't forget about that second Andy luck

That Marcas Mariatta sounds a player, we should trade for him.

[JoeyFlex5]

9 hours ago, RayRayRaven said:

with you on tradin joe. theres still a window, we need our leadars to be men of courage and have a comprehensuv plan. this is not jus about joe, but he is the tool to work this machine

it is much more than possible.

the move to get free of joe does involve some dismantle and draffing hi with th e pics we get and our own higher draff position. but you picture it a much longer rebuilt than it will be. we must pic well but we will be pickin high. very high. we can be the bess team in the leage by 2019 2020 fur sur

you say it but you doan understan it. 

cleveland is the one team joe can school. they are stil our oyster if we have the resolushion.

prolly not joe got his check and hes more than happy

joe has 9 yrs in and one time where he plays good for 4 wks. he stil has residual value cuz of that but we must take ou r profit on this stock.  it time to sell high and go back and buy low.

for real?

matt ryan

tom brady

dak prescot

aron rodgers

dree brees

kick cousin

andy luck

matt staffords

ty taylor

andy luck

alex smith

marcas mariatta

jamis winson

phil rivers

russl wilson

derak carr

sam bradford

carson palmer.

joe flacco, joe is the holder of many many interestin stats none I wanna talke about here though. I want to trade him this yr.

The move to get rid of joe involved clearing 47m in cap space this year. That is not rearranging money, that requires a total dismantling of the team 

[Moderator 3]

10 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The slightest criticism is met a flurry of excuses. This thread doesn't really have an in-between. It's either people who really hate Joe or people who absolutely love Flacco and would go to the end of the Earth to defend him. Very few in betweens.

And I see it totally the other way.  The slightest defense of Flacco is met with a tirade of over-the-top criticism.  I don't see anyone "absolutely love" Joe, just people trying to tell the "haters" to lighten up.

Seriously people, there is a middle ground and I think that's where the bulk of the fans are.  We've seen horrible Joe and we've see tremendous Joe.  What we want is a plan, scheme, roster, whatever, that helps us see the good Joe way more often. 

[Somerset Ravens]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

The move to get rid of joe involved clearing 47m in cap space this year. That is not rearranging money, that requires a total dismantling of the team 

Do you think some of the people here cannot understand this or that it ruins their trip to fantasy land?

[berad]

What is there to debate over?

Does he need to play better? Yes. Everyone and their mom has come to that conclusion.

Will he be on the team for the foreseeable future? Yes. The team still has a lot of confidence in him and his contract is structured in such a way that it makes it harmful to cut him, anyways.

Beyond those two points, what is there to talk about? 100+ pages worth? At least we don't see the phrases 'deer in the headlights', 'can't/won't win the big game', etc anymore.

[BmoreBird22]

50 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

And I see it totally the other way.  The slightest defense of Flacco is met with a tirade of over-the-top criticism.  I don't see anyone "absolutely love" Joe, just people trying to tell the "haters" to lighten up.

Seriously people, there is a middle ground and I think that's where the bulk of the fans are.  We've seen horrible Joe and we've see tremendous Joe.  What we want is a plan, scheme, roster, whatever, that helps us see the good Joe way more often. 

I think we do see the good Joe more often than not. Even in 2013, I thought that was good Joe. I don't know what to expect in the future, but I know Joe is more capable of what 2016 showed.

[BmoreBird22]

5 minutes ago, berad said:

What is there to debate over?

Does he need to play better? Yes. Everyone and their mom has come to that conclusion.

Will he be on the team for the foreseeable future? Yes. The team still has a lot of confidence in him and his contract is structured in such a way that it makes it harmful to cut him, anyways.

Beyond those two points, what is there to talk about? 100+ pages worth? At least we don't see the phrases 'deer in the headlights', 'can't/won't win the big game', etc anymore.

For me, the issue now is it is, "Joe needs to play better, but... (insert 10 excuses here)." For me, there is no but. He isn't playing well and his play last year hindered the team. 

I know he's capable of better, so let's not make excuses. 

[berad]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

For me, the issue now is it is, "Joe needs to play better, but... (insert 10 excuses here)." For me, there is no but. He isn't playing well and his play last year hindered the team. 

I know he's capable of better, so let's not make excuses. 

Ah, so that's the rub.

I won't excuse it, he missed some throws he should make. He made some sloppy interceptions, too. Those hurt us, especially early in the season where we lost some winnable games.

However, he did play markedly better down the stretch. From Week 9 (Thursday vs Cleveland) to the penultimate Pittsburgh game, through those 7 weeks, he put up 14 TDs to 7 INTs, 280+ yds/game, a 94.7 passer rating, and his 6.9 yards/attempt was at his career average. Through those 7 weeks, we also won 4,  losing to Dallas, New England, and Pittsburgh. That's respectable but the teams' and his floundering in the middle of the season kept us from the playoffs.

[The Raven]

24 minutes ago, berad said:

What is there to debate over?

Does he need to play better? Yes. Everyone and their mom has come to that conclusion.

Will he be on the team for the foreseeable future? Yes. The team still has a lot of confidence in him and his contract is structured in such a way that it makes it harmful to cut him, anyways.

Beyond those two points, what is there to talk about? 100+ pages worth? At least we don't see the phrases 'deer in the headlights', 'can't/won't win the big game', etc anymore.

 

18 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

For me, the issue now is it is, "Joe needs to play better, but... (insert 10 excuses here)." For me, there is no but. He isn't playing well and his play last year hindered the team. 

I know he's capable of better, so let's not make excuses. 

 

5 minutes ago, berad said:

Ah, so that's the rub.

I won't excuse it, he missed some throws he should make. He made some sloppy interceptions, too. Those hurt us, especially early in the season where we lost some winnable games.

However, he did play markedly better down the stretch. From Week 9 (Thursday vs Cleveland) to the penultimate Pittsburgh game, through those 7 weeks, he put up 14 TDs to 7 INTs, 280+ yds/game, a 94.7 passer rating, and his 6.9 yards/attempt was at his career average. Through those 7 weeks, we also won 4,  losing to Dallas, New England, and Pittsburgh. That's respectable but the teams' and his floundering in the middle of the season kept us from the playoffs.

I see both sides. Joe could definitely use help -- he easily has one of the worst supporting casts of the upper tier of QBs -- but he doesn't do a good job at all of helping himself or others, and he's largely responsible for a lot of our problems. His sloppy play and risk taking cost us games.

His craving of the big play leads to too many three and outs by ignoring timing routes and failing to move the chains. More and more I believe that he looks for the big play on every play. Doesn't it seem like every throw is either a check down or a down field attack? There's no in between. Only in the two minute drill -- when he's forced to move the chains to stay alive -- does he throw on the break and in timing with the receiver. That's really it, I think. He wants the big play and doesn't care much for precise, meticulous drives.

[Jonah DeVito]

2 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

And I see it totally the other way.  The slightest defense of Flacco is met with a tirade of over-the-top criticism.  I don't see anyone "absolutely love" Joe, just people trying to tell the "haters" to lighten up.

Seriously people, there is a middle ground and I think that's where the bulk of the fans are.  We've seen horrible Joe and we've see tremendous Joe.  What we want is a plan, scheme, roster, whatever, that helps us see the good Joe way more often. 

Exactly how I see it 

[Moderator 3]

1 hour ago, The Raven said:

 

 

I see both sides. Joe could definitely use help -- he easily has one of the worst supporting casts of the upper tier of QBs -- but he doesn't do a good job at all of helping himself or others, and he's largely responsible for a lot of our problems. His sloppy play and risk taking cost us games.

His craving of the big play leads to too many three and outs by ignoring timing routes and failing to move the chains. More and more I believe that he looks for the big play on every play. Doesn't it seem like every throw is either a check down or a down field attack? There's no in between. Only in the two minute drill -- when he's forced to move the chains to stay alive -- does he throw on the break and in timing with the receiver. That's really it, I think. He wants the big play and doesn't care much for precise, meticulous drives.

And that's the kind of statement that drives the "Flacco lovers" nuts.  As a matter of fact, the Ravens were in the top 3rd of the league in AVOIDING 3 and outs.  He was NOT failing to move the chains at a high rate.  Granted, there were too many failed attempts at securing the first down later in the drive, but a fair amount of that was lacking a playmaker on offense.  It takes two to move the chains. 

[usmccharles]

24 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

And that's the kind of statement that drives the "Flacco lovers" nuts.  As a matter of fact, the Ravens were in the top 3rd of the league in AVOIDING 3 and outs.  He was NOT failing to move the chains at a high rate.  Granted, there were too many failed attempts at securing the first down later in the drive, but a fair amount of that was lacking a playmaker on offense.  It takes two to move the chains. 

Sometimes facts are hard

[The Raven]

48 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

And that's the kind of statement that drives the "Flacco lovers" nuts.  As a matter of fact, the Ravens were in the top 3rd of the league in AVOIDING 3 and outs.  He was NOT failing to move the chains at a high rate.  Granted, there were too many failed attempts at securing the first down later in the drive, but a fair amount of that was lacking a playmaker on offense.  It takes two to move the chains. 

 

23 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Sometimes facts are hard

Okay. I misspoke and said three and out. I'd still wager that we were among the worst in the league at finishing drives. We ranked 24th in converting third downs, converting just 36 percent.

We were definitely among the most inefficient offenses in the league, anyway, and that's due in large part to Joe. The facts show that we were one of the least efficient passing offenses. We were 24th overall in yards per play and 27th in yard per pass attempt.

Sometimes, facts really are hard.

[usmccharles]

2 minutes ago, The Raven said:

 

Okay. I misspoke and said three and out. I'd still wager that we were among the worst in the league at finishing drives. We ranked 24th in converting third downs, converting just 36 percent.

We were definitely among the most inefficient offenses in the league, anyway, and that's due in large part to Joe. The facts show that we were one of the least efficient passing offenses. We were 24th overall in yards per play and 27th in yard per pass attempt.

Sometimes, facts really are hard.

Im not disagreeing that the offense was not good.  But I was will go back to the FO not giving Joe enough to work with, yes Joe needs to play better, but the continuous revolving door of OCs, OL, and lack of dynamic WR talent has taken a huge toll on this offense and Joe's regression

[The Raven]

4 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Im not disagreeing that the offense was not good.  But I was will go back to the FO not giving Joe enough to work with, yes Joe needs to play better, but the continuous revolving door of OCs, OL, and lack of dynamic WR talent has taken a huge toll on this offense and Joe's regression

In seasons before 2016, I agree wholeheartedly, but in 2016, he had as much to do with his struggles as his poor supporting cast.  His footwork and throwing motion were the worst they've been since he was a rookie. His accuracy was poor. His decision making was awful. 

In 2013 and 2015, I gave him passes. But, in my opinion, 2016 was the first year since "maturing" where he really got in his own way.

Edited March 22 by The Raven

[usmccharles]

16 minutes ago, The Raven said:

In seasons before 2016, I agree wholeheartedly, but in 2016, he had as much to do with his struggles as his poor supporting cast.  His footwork and throwing motion were the worst they've been since he was a rookie. His accuracy was poor. His decision making was awful. 

In 2013 and 2015, I gave him passes. But, in my opinion, 2016 was the first year since "maturing" where he really got in his own way.

I think that had a lot to do with coming off an injury.  I know we can say, well AP came back and rushed for 2k yards, but everyone heals differently and then there is the mental aspect.  We also had no run game last year and SSr was obviously not himself.  I am not disagreeing that Joe play bad last year, at all. 

[Purple&Black#20]

3 hours ago, berad said:

Ah, so that's the rub.

I won't excuse it, he missed some throws he should make. He made some sloppy interceptions, too. Those hurt us, especially early in the season where we lost some winnable games.

However, he did play markedly better down the stretch. From Week 9 (Thursday vs Cleveland) to the penultimate Pittsburgh game, through those 7 weeks, he put up 14 TDs to 7 INTs, 280+ yds/game, a 94.7 passer rating, and his 6.9 yards/attempt was at his career average. Through those 7 weeks, we also won 4,  losing to Dallas, New England, and Pittsburgh. That's respectable but the teams' and his floundering in the middle of the season kept us from the playoffs.

Flacco didn't play any better those last 7 weeks, he has done what he normally  does. Every year snitch  the day we drafted him. He'll have between 1-3 games a season where he looks like a top 5 quarterback in the league and turn around the next week and stink up the place. Those last 7 games he played two of his best games all season. Against Cleveland (3 td's 2 int) who owns the top pick in the draft and only won a game last season. The other was Miami where he threw for 4 TD's and 1 int. Flacco threw 20 td's to 15 INT's last year. He almost average 1 int a game. Most of his picks are just bad throws and not a guy just making a play on the ball. Only consistency he has showed was he'll throw 10 plus picks a year. Hate me for telling the truth and here are some numbers for you....

 

Joe Flacco stats

 

Career stats

Year	Team	YDS	TD	INT	Rating
2016	BAL	4,317	20	15	83.5
2015	BAL	2,791	14	12	83.1
2014	BAL	3,986	27	12	91.0
2013	BAL	3,912	19	22	73.1
2012	BAL	3,817	22	10	87.7
2011	BAL	3,610	20	12	80.9
2010	BAL	3,622	25	10	93.6
2009	BAL	3,613	21	12	88.9
2008	BAL	2,971	14	12	80.3
Career		32,639	182	117	84.5

[berad]

5 minutes ago, Purple&Black#20 said:

Flacco didn't play any better those last 7 weeks, he has done what he normally  does. Every year snitch  the day we drafted him. He'll have between 1-3 games a season where he looks like a top 5 quarterback in the league and turn around the next week and stink up the place. Those last 7 games he played two of his best games all season. Against Cleveland (3 td's 2 int) who owns the top pick in the draft and only won a game last season. The other was Miami where he threw for 4 TD's and 1 int. Flacco threw 20 td's to 15 INT's last year. He almost average 1 int a game. Most of his picks are just bad throws and not a guy just making a play on the ball. Only consistency he has showed was he'll throw 10 plus picks a year. Hate me for telling the truth and here are some numbers for you....

Joe Flacco stats

 

Career stats

 

Okay so that goes back to my original points:

Does he need to play better? Yes. Everyone and their mom has come to that conclusion.

Will he be on the team for the foreseeable future? Yes. The team still has a lot of confidence in him and his contract is structured in such a way that it makes it harmful to cut him, anyways.

Beyond those two points, what is there to talk about? 100+ pages worth? At least we don't see the phrases 'deer in the headlights', 'can't/won't win the big game', etc anymore.

If he played like he normally does, as you say, what are we to do?

[Edgar]

5 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

For me, the issue now is it is, "Joe needs to play better, but... (insert 10 excuses here)." For me, there is no but. He isn't playing well and his play last year hindered the team. 

I know he's capable of better, so let's not make excuses. 

On point and succinct.

[Tru11]

52 minutes ago, berad said:

Okay so that goes back to my original points:

Does he need to play better? Yes. Everyone and their mom has come to that conclusion.

Will he be on the team for the foreseeable future? Yes. The team still has a lot of confidence in him and his contract is structured in such a way that it makes it harmful to cut him, anyways.

Beyond those two points, what is there to talk about? 100+ pages worth? At least we don't see the phrases 'deer in the headlights', 'can't/won't win the big game', etc anymore.

If he played like he normally does, as you say, what are we to do?

prepare to miss the play offs again.

[usmccharles]

6 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

prepare to miss the play offs again.

Don't you think its pretty ignorant to say this....in March?

Did Joe kill your dog or something?

Edited March 22 by usmccharles

[rossihunter2]

17 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

prepare to miss the play offs again.

it almost feels like you want this to happen...

[rossihunter2]

18 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

prepare to miss the play offs again.

or you're a steelers fan ...