Joe Flacco: Tough Talk

[Tank 92]

8 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The issue is the last point, which you attempted to gloss over.

Flacco led the league in passes for 16 weeks and barely fell short of first when Brees passed him in the final week of the season.

He had a paltry 6.4 yards per attempt to go along with only 20 touchdowns. 

For that many passes, you'd love to see closer to 5,000 and 30.

Saying this without recognizing that his leading receiver basically fell down to the turf pretty much each and every time he caught the ball is ignoring fact. Everyone knows Flacco was tentative at times last year and that the passing game was inefficient, but framing it in that manner is an attempt to "gloss over" many reasons it was inefficient. 

Edited March 21 by Tank 92

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, Tank 92 said:

Saying this without recognizing that his leading receiver basically fell down to the turf pretty much each and every time he caught the ball is ignoring fact. Everyone knows Flacco was tentative at times last year and that the passing game was inefficient, but framing it in that manner is an attempt to "gloss over" many reasons it was inefficient. 

Whether or not Pitta fell down, Flacco did himself no favors by 1. Having tunnel vision to Pitta and 2. Using the check-down far too often.

[Tank 92]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Whether or not Pitta fell down, Flacco did himself no favors by 1. Having tunnel vision to Pitta and 2. Using the check-down far too often.

Sure, no doubt that was a part of it.  But ignoring the circumstances(not only Pitta) is skewing the  view of his performance.  Fact is Flacco improved throughout the season as he gained confidence in his knee.  It was obvious to any objective fan that there were also other team issues that hampered the passing game. It wasn't just on Joe Flacco. 

[BmoreBird22]

2 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

Sure, no doubt that was a part of it.  But ignoring the circumstances(not only Pitta) is skewing the  view of his performance.  Fact is Flacco improved throughout the season as he gained confidence in his knee.  It was obvious to any objective fan that there were also other team issues that hampered the passing game. It wasn't just on Joe Flacco. 

No, it wasn't just Flacco. I won't pretend that a quarterback, outside of Luck, maybe the greatest prospect ever, can do it with next to nothing. 

With that said, I didn't see a better Flacco. I saw a more conservative offense that asked him to do less and throw deep less and allowed him to really just function underneath. Second half Flacco was no where near a 2010-2012, 2014. This was not good Flacco like it can be.

Edited March 21 by BmoreBird22

[ellicottraven]

12 hours ago, Jonah DeVito said:

But if he's in the second tier why would we get rid of him...

We wouldn't of course. I am not advocating trading Joe. I was just responding to a post. I was simply stating why we would get a ton of picks should we ever do that. Hopefully that clarifies my post.

[Jonah DeVito]

3 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

We wouldn't of course. I am not advocating trading Joe. I was just responding to a post. I was simply stating why we would get a ton of picks should we ever do that. Hopefully that clarifies my post.

Yeah it makes sense now. 

[frozen joe flacco fan]

18 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The issue is the last point, which you attempted to gloss over.

Flacco led the league in passes for 16 weeks and barely fell short of first when Brees passed him in the final week of the season.

He had a paltry 6.4 yards per attempt to go along with only 20 touchdowns. 

For that many passes, you'd love to see closer to 5,000 and 30.

The glaring and obvious disparity between his YPA in 2016 vs. other years is simply a function of two things. One is executing the play called. The second is dumping the ball off to a sure-handed back, like Juice was and Danny Woodhead will be, when nobody else can gain separation. That being said, there were a number of times when Joe pulled the trigger prematurely 'cause he was afraid of having someone crash into his left leg. When will some of his most ardent critics get it? A receiver's job is "see the ball; catch the ball." That's not what Aiken, Moore, Waller, Perriman and Wallace have demonstrated they can do consistently. Again, Justin Tucker appears to have better hands. Until and unless Ozzie fills the holes in the offensive line and brings in some stud wide receivers, nothing as in nada will change. You criticize Joe for having tunnel vision and throwing too many times to Dennis. Besides Dennis, who is Joe's Go To man/ The answer is clear. It was Steve Sr.. Now its .............????????????????? Fill in the blank and we can put this to bed.

[redrum52]

1 hour ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

The glaring and obvious disparity between his YPA in 2016 vs. other years is simply a function of two things. One is executing the play called. The second is dumping the ball off to a sure-handed back, like Juice was and Danny Woodhead will be, when nobody else can gain separation. That being said, there were a number of times when Joe pulled the trigger prematurely 'cause he was afraid of having someone crash into his left leg. When will some of his most ardent critics get it? A receiver's job is "see the ball; catch the ball." That's not what Aiken, Moore, Waller, Perriman and Wallace have demonstrated they can do consistently. Again, Justin Tucker appears to have better hands. Until and unless Ozzie fills the holes in the offensive line and brings in some stud wide receivers, nothing as in nada will change. You criticize Joe for having tunnel vision and throwing too many times to Dennis. Besides Dennis, who is Joe's Go To man/ The answer is clear. It was Steve Sr.. Now its .............????????????????? Fill in the blank and we can put this to bed.

Where would you rank Joe among qbs?  Who do you think is better than him?

[The Raven]

We still debate over Flacco?

Edited March 21 by The Raven

[Tru11]

1 hour ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

The glaring and obvious disparity between his YPA in 2016 vs. other years is simply a function of two things. One is executing the play called. The second is dumping the ball off to a sure-handed back, like Juice was and Danny Woodhead will be, when nobody else can gain separation. That being said, there were a number of times when Joe pulled the trigger prematurely 'cause he was afraid of having someone crash into his left leg. When will some of his most ardent critics get it? A receiver's job is "see the ball; catch the ball." That's not what Aiken, Moore, Waller, Perriman and Wallace have demonstrated they can do consistently. Again, Justin Tucker appears to have better hands. Until and unless Ozzie fills the holes in the offensive line and brings in some stud wide receivers, nothing as in nada will change. You criticize Joe for having tunnel vision and throwing too many times to Dennis. Besides Dennis, who is Joe's Go To man/ The answer is clear. It was Steve Sr.. Now its .............????????????????? Fill in the blank and we can put this to bed.

quite curious if you also know what the QBs job is.

interesting how you always manage to list everyone else job and what they are supposed to do except the highest paid position in the NFL.....

 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

45 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

Where would you rank Joe among qbs?  Who do you think is better than him?

I'll bite

rodgers

brady

ben

brees

carr

luck

wilson

ryan

Edited March 21 by LosT_in_TranSlatioN

[redrum52]

31 minutes ago, The Raven said:

We still debate over Flacco?

Boards closing soon.  Lets send this one out with a bang...

 

21 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

quite curious if you also know what the QBs job is.

interesting how you always manage to list everyone else job and what they are supposed to do except the highest paid position in the NFL.....

 

20 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

I'll bite

rodgers

brady

ben

brees

carr

luck

wilson

ryan

Good list.  Reason I asked though was to get an understanding of what and who he should be compared with.  Without that theres no point in the discussion.

Edited March 21 by redrum52

[BmoreBird22]

47 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

I'll bite

rodgers

brady

ben

brees

carr

luck

wilson

ryan

Take Wilson off in a heartbeat.

I'd put Bradford on if he stayed healthy. And Winston is looking really good these days. Plus there's Stafford.

Edited March 21 by BmoreBird22

[redrum52]

42 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Take Wilson off in a heartbeat.

I'd put Bradford on if he stayed healthy. And Winston is looking really good these days. Plus there's Stafford.

Stafford only looks good cause of Calvin though?   Right...

[Tank 92]

You trolls better watch out or your lines are going to get tangled!   LMAO!!!!!!!

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Take Wilson off in a heartbeat.

I'd put Bradford on if he stayed healthy. And Winston is looking really good these days. Plus there's Stafford.

no way bradford - and if you say winston then you should probably say mariota too (which are probably both fair enough), you could argue stafford and maybe even cam newton - you guys forgot philip rivers as well...

for me its

brady

rodgers

big ben

luck

carr

brees

rivers

ryan

winston

mariota

wilson

stafford

which would make flacco 13th at the moment albeit he is pretty mobile year-to-year depending on form and could be as high as 7th/8th in a particular year... but as it stands id say 13th is pretty fair - you could add behind him in the same tier would be newton, manning (although he looked like he fell off a cliff), dalton, cousins, ?prescott? (maybe it's too early to say for him)

[usmccharles]

I heard Joe doesnt like crab....

coincidence?

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

no way bradford - and if you say winston then you should probably say mariota too (which are probably both fair enough), you could argue stafford and maybe even cam newton - you guys forgot philip rivers as well...

I don't think Winston is there yet in terms of being better, but I think he's going to be soon. He's got a very bright future. I think Mariota needs to be asked to carry more of the offense before I can say he's in the upper echelon. 

I can't say Cam. One good season and that's really it. He makes more impressive plays with his legs than arm, in my opinion, and that's not what you're paying him for.

I would absolutely put Bradford up there. Bradford had one amazing season last year with one of the worst supporting casts in the NFL. Despite this, he was one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL under pressure and rarely made mistakes. If he could have a quality supporting cast and stay consistently healthy, he can be a real game changer.

With Rivers, I just don't see it. Just too inconsistent and way too turnover prone for my liking. 

With Stafford, he's one I would have never said, but recently, he's picked up his individual play so much that I can't leave him off that list. 

I'm not a fan of Wilson. We saw when he didn't have his legs to rely on that his production dropped heavily. He's just not meant to be a pocket passer. He needs those legs to open up throwing windows for him.

[BmoreBird22]

2 hours ago, redrum52 said:

Stafford only looks good cause of Calvin though?   Right...

That's why I want to see Pitta cut. Joe just relies too heavily on him. I hated the contract to begin with, but now it's really becoming a detriment to the team. 

If Joe were forced to spread the ball around more heavily and not just check it down to Pitta at the first sign of danger, I think we could see a more 2014-esque season. 

[BmoreBird22]

2 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

You trolls better watch out or your lines are going to get tangled!   LMAO!!!!!!!

I forgot we must bow down to the greatest quarterback in the history of the NFL. All hail the almighty Flacco.

[RayRayRaven]

On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 10:08 AM, Purple&Black#20 said:

I agree with trading him to Cleveland for both there first round picks. Just bite the bullet and move on. We draft Garrett with the first pick and Mike Williams or Cory Davis with the 12th pick because we didn't give Pryor 8 million for 1 year. Cleveland is desperate and probably will pull the trigger. Draft CB Tabor or Wilson from Florida in the 2ND and build the offensive line in the 3rd. The Brandon William deal is probably another set back. He should of walked and transition our defense from the 3-4 to a 4-3 defense. Jernigan is not a true 3-4 linemen. Mosley isn't a true 3-4 Linebacker because he doesn't blockshed well. 

                            4-3 Defense 

      Suggs.  Jernigan.   Pierce.   Garrett 

           Correa.     Mosley.    Onwuasor   

Smith.  Jefferson. Weddle. Tabor/wilson

Ravens defense would finally be back. 

with you on tradin joe. theres still a window, we need our leadars to be men of courage and have a comprehensuv plan. this is not jus about joe, but he is the tool to work this machine

On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 7:46 PM, Virginia 55 said:

Flacco is 3 or 4  good seasons in a nine year career.  If he needs all those first rounders and talent to be successful at 120 million, then I wish we could trade him to Cleveland. I'm fully aware this is impossible, so the only hope we have is that he retires. 

it is much more than possible.

On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 11:03 AM, JoeyFlex5 said:

What don't you people understand... cutting or trading flacco is a 47 million cap hit that would force us to cut well over half of our starters and major contributors just to get even with the cap. 

We aren't just trading joe, we are dismantling the ENTIRE TEAM with this move and we aren't just getting rid of joe and drafting players, we would need to draft an entire roster over the next decade and have every early pick go well just to be competitive by the mid 2020s. 

the move to get free of joe does involve some dismantle and draffing hi with th e pics we get and our own higher draff position. but you picture it a much longer rebuilt than it will be. we must pic well but we will be pickin high. very high. we can be the bess team in the leage by 2019 2020 fur sur

On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 11:57 AM, Purple_City39 said:

I don't think you get it.  Joe's 24M cap hit is destroying the team and the only way to fix it is to almost double that cap hit while he plays for another team.  With Ryan Mallett at the helm, and Cleveland's 2 first rounders that we'll spend on a DE and WR, we'll dominate the league!!!!  We'll just ask every other player to take a pay cut to mitigate Joe's dead cap hit and I'm sure they'll all do it with a smile.

/sarcasm

you say it but you doan understan it. 

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 10:00 AM, Purple&Black#20 said:

Hue Jackson is the Cleveland Browns Coach and feels he can get the most out any quarterback. That's why I say cleveland would probably do it. 

cleveland is the one team joe can school. they are stil our oyster if we have the resolushion.

On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 7:50 PM, frozen joe flacco fan said:

Your arguments are way to logical and objective! I agree with your assessment almost entirely but would add that Dennis Pitta was also coming off a dislocated and second fractured hip injury. Additionally, the O-line Joe has had to work with after the Super Bowl run has been slightly less than stellar. You will never convince his critics though. They will continue to produce stats that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Joe had a lousy, stinking year despite the fact he threw for more than 4,000 yards. Yes, his YPA was low this year but so were the YAC stats for his some of his receivers who couldn't catch a cold. I'd include Wallace, Aiken, Perriman, Waller and Moore in that list. The best play all year for a Raven receiver getting some YAC was the TD play that SSS made against Cincy and as you pointed out Steve is 37. Hey, maybe Justin Tucker should try out as a receiver, huh? He made some circus catches in practice at the Pro Bowl! The guy was non-chalantly catching one-handed and back-handed. Give him an O-line and you'll see the Old Joe Flacco back. 

prolly not joe got his check and hes more than happy

On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 8:35 PM, Tank 92 said:

Yeah, I think Joe did fine considering the circumstances. He was improving all year while gaining confidence in his knee. If the Ravens can somehow find "that guy" in the draft, and/or if some of the underachievers already on the squad begin to produce The Flacco will be The Boss. 

joe has 9 yrs in and one time where he plays good for 4 wks. he stil has residual value cuz of that but we must take ou r profit on this stock.  it time to sell high and go back and buy low.

4 hours ago, redrum52 said:

Where would you rank Joe among qbs?  Who do you think is better than him?

for real?

matt ryan

tom brady

dak prescot

aron rodgers

dree brees

kick cousin

andy luck

matt staffords

ty taylor

andy luck

alex smith

marcas mariatta

jamis winson

phil rivers

russl wilson

derak carr

sam bradford

carson palmer.

joe flacco, joe is the holder of many many interestin stats none I wanna talke about here though. I want to trade him this yr.

[Tank 92]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I forgot we must bow down to the greatest quarterback in the history of the NFL. All hail the almighty Flacco.

What the heck??  Why are you quoting me? Wasn't even referring to you.   lol

Pretty juvenile post btw. I've seen nothing posted here by anyone that suggested that Flacco was "almighty", only posts that dispute ridiculous criticisms based on fantasy. 

[RayRayRaven]

6 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

That's why I want to see Pitta cut. Joe just relies too heavily on him. I hated the contract to begin with, but now it's really becoming a detriment to the team. 

If Joe were forced to spread the ball around more heavily and not just check it down to Pitta at the first sign of danger, I think we could see a more 2014-esque season. 

ur gonna need gary kubeack for that

[redrum52]

5 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

That's why I want to see Pitta cut. Joe just relies too heavily on him. I hated the contract to begin with, but now it's really becoming a detriment to the team. 

If Joe were forced to spread the ball around more heavily and not just check it down to Pitta at the first sign of danger, I think we could see a more 2014-esque season. 

I wanted Pitta gone as well.  Deepest position and would like to see the other guys get their chance.  Feel keeping him will stunt the other players development and as you said provide a false sense of security.  Could've used the extra cap space as well.

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, Tank 92 said:

What the heck??  Why are you quoting me? Wasn't even referring to you.   lol

Pretty juvenile post btw. I've seen nothing posted here by anyone that suggested that Flacco was "almighty", only posts that dispute ridiculous criticisms based on fantasy. 

The slightest criticism is met a flurry of excuses. This thread doesn't really have an in-between. It's either people who really hate Joe or people who absolutely love Flacco and would go to the end of the Earth to defend him. Very few in betweens.

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, redrum52 said:

I wanted Pitta gone as well.  Deepest position and would like to see the other guys get their chance.  Feel keeping him will stunt the other players development and as you said provide a false sense of security.  Could've used the extra cap space as well.

Well, I think Brian McFarland posted there's essentially no difference between releasing Pitta now or later, so no reason to just release him now.

[redrum52]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The slightest criticism is met a flurry of excuses. This thread doesn't really have an in-between. It's either people who really hate Joe or people who absolutely love Flacco and would go to the end of the Earth to defend him. Very few in betweens.

How's that red pill?

 

Also, didn't want it restructured.  Thought it was best to release him and move on, but the team obviously has other plans.  We'll see.

Edited March 22 by redrum52

[RayRayRaven]

6 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The slightest criticism is met a flurry of excuses. This thread doesn't really have an in-between. It's either people who really hate Joe or people who absolutely love Flacco and would go to the end of the Earth to defend him. Very few in betweens.

doan think fans will evah hate joe.  he was there in that happy time. I had high hpes for joe. I truly did. but you cant spit inta the wind. the wind tells ya somethin.  in my neck of the woods we have a sayin for raccoon dogs that cant get the job done.  that dog wont hunt

[SepticeyePoe]

18 minutes ago, RayRayRaven said:

with you on tradin joe. theres still a window, we need our leadars to be men of courage and have a comprehensuv plan. this is not jus about joe, but he is the tool to work this machine

it is much more than possible.

the move to get free of joe does involve some dismantle and draffing hi with th e pics we get and our own higher draff position. but you picture it a much longer rebuilt than it will be. we must pic well but we will be pickin high. very high. we can be the bess team in the leage by 2019 2020 fur sur

What part of this do you not understand?

On 3/13/2017 at 11:03 AM, JoeyFlex5 said:

What don't you people understand... cutting or trading flacco is a 47 million cap hit that would force us to cut well over half of our starters and major contributors just to get even with the cap. 

We aren't just trading joe, we are dismantling the ENTIRE TEAM with this move and we aren't just getting rid of joe and drafting players, we would need to draft an entire roster over the next decade and have every early pick go well just to be competitive by the mid 2020s. 

It would take longer than 2019 or 2020 for us to become competitive again, especially if we don't have a quarterback. It is not a comprehensuv plan to destroy the whole team and be at the bottom of the league for the next decade. Having one or two high draft picks won't do us any good if there is nobody surrounding them.

[Wisdom]

36 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The slightest criticism is met a flurry of excuses. This thread doesn't really have an in-between. It's either people who really hate Joe or people who absolutely love Flacco and would go to the end of the Earth to defend him. Very few in betweens.

I say as much!