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sflegend89

Joe Flacco: Tough Talk

3,221 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, Virginia 55 said:

Flacco is 3 or 4  good seasons in a nine year career.  If he needs all those first rounders and talent to be successful at 120 million, then I wish we could trade him to Cleveland. I'm fully aware this is impossible, so the only hope we have is that he retires. 

All we can do at this point is hope the next 3 season he performs like a 25M/yr QB. As long as he's healthy and invests the time during off season to build chemistry with all his RBs, WRs and TEs he may very well build confidence and perform well. But, his problem is he's never put in that extra time during off season. Don't get me wrong. He seems to be very hard working during the season as evidenced by what his coaches say, but he's never gone above and beyond to develop his own timing and skill set. That is one of my issues with a man that is among the highest paid players in the NFL.

He's said he's going to get together with his receivers and as long as getting together with his receivers doesn't mean sitting around and watching movies with his receiver pal Pitta, we'll be okay. He really needs to make it happen. He can spend some of his own money and host all the RBs, WRs and TEs in a nice hotel near his home in NJ and practice throwing and improving timing with them. But, I doubt he does it.

Bottom line is we better hope he improves and doesn't continue regressing because there's nothing we can do about him period. We just pray and hope.

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8 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

Unfortunately even then there's a cap hit I think in almost all cases where there's guaranteed money and a pro-rated signing bonus

and it's hard to criticise flacco for needing first round guys when he's never really had any... perriman and Stanley are the only offensive first rounders since Michael oher and flacco himself - he hasn't even had that much second round help either: maxx Williams, KO, Torrey smith and ray rice

not that I think flacco performed well enough last year but the team has consistently trusted him to play well without major resources being spent on offence which, despite all the narratives to the contrary, is not something Brady and other great qbs in the league have had to do all too often

It's maddening that some don't see this. My god look what Andy Dalton and Matt Ryan have been spoiled with, and Matt Ryan just choked and sickenly gave NE another super bowl 

Edited by OUravensfan
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13 hours ago, Virginia 55 said:

Flacco is 3 or 4  good seasons in a nine year career.  If he needs all those first rounders and talent to be successful at 120 million, then I wish we could trade him to Cleveland. I'm fully aware this is impossible, so the only hope we have is that he retires. 

"All those first rounders".  Really?  The only first rounders he has have both played one season.  How dare a QB need actual talent around him to perform well!!  If he can't win games with leftovers then he shouldn't be in the NFL

/sarcasm

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I agree with trading him to Cleveland for both there first round picks. Just bite the bullet and move on. We draft Garrett with the first pick and Mike Williams or Cory Davis with the 12th pick because we didn't give Pryor 8 million for 1 year. Cleveland is desperate and probably will pull the trigger. Draft CB Tabor or Wilson from Florida in the 2ND and build the offensive line in the 3rd. The Brandon William deal is probably another set back. He should of walked and transition our defense from the 3-4 to a 4-3 defense. Jernigan is not a true 3-4 linemen. Mosley isn't a true 3-4 Linebacker because he doesn't blockshed well. 

                            4-3 Defense 

      Suggs.  Jernigan.   Pierce.   Garrett 

           Correa.     Mosley.    Onwuasor   

Smith.  Jefferson. Weddle. Tabor/wilson

Ravens defense would finally be back. 

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50 minutes ago, Purple&Black#20 said:

I agree with trading him to Cleveland for both there first round picks. Just bite the bullet and move on. We draft Garrett with the first pick and Mike Williams or Cory Davis with the 12th pick because we didn't give Pryor 8 million for 1 year. Cleveland is desperate and probably will pull the trigger. Draft CB Tabor or Wilson from Florida in the 2ND and build the offensive line in the 3rd. The Brandon William deal is probably another set back. He should of walked and transition our defense from the 3-4 to a 4-3 defense. Jernigan is not a true 3-4 linemen. Mosley isn't a true 3-4 Linebacker because he doesn't blockshed well. 

                            4-3 Defense 

      Suggs.  Jernigan.   Pierce.   Garrett 

           Correa.     Mosley.    Onwuasor   

Smith.  Jefferson. Weddle. Tabor/wilson

Ravens defense would finally be back. 

What don't you people understand... cutting or trading flacco is a 47 million cap hit that would force us to cut well over half of our starters and major contributors just to get even with the cap. 

We aren't just trading joe, we are dismantling the ENTIRE TEAM with this move and we aren't just getting rid of joe and drafting players, we would need to draft an entire roster over the next decade and have every early pick go well just to be competitive by the mid 2020s. 

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50 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

What don't you people understand... cutting or trading flacco is a 47 million cap hit that would force us to cut well over half of our starters and major contributors just to get even with the cap. 

We aren't just trading joe, we are dismantling the ENTIRE TEAM with this move and we aren't just getting rid of joe and drafting players, we would need to draft an entire roster over the next decade and have every early pick go well just to be competitive by the mid 2020s. 

I don't think you get it.  Joe's 24M cap hit is destroying the team and the only way to fix it is to almost double that cap hit while he plays for another team.  With Ryan Mallett at the helm, and Cleveland's 2 first rounders that we'll spend on a DE and WR, we'll dominate the league!!!!  We'll just ask every other player to take a pay cut to mitigate Joe's dead cap hit and I'm sure they'll all do it with a smile.

/sarcasm

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On 3/13/2017 at 9:08 AM, Purple&Black#20 said:

I agree with trading him to Cleveland for both there first round picks. Just bite the bullet and move on. We draft Garrett with the first pick and Mike Williams or Cory Davis with the 12th pick because we didn't give Pryor 8 million for 1 year. Cleveland is desperate and probably will pull the trigger. Draft CB Tabor or Wilson from Florida in the 2ND and build the offensive line in the 3rd. The Brandon William deal is probably another set back. He should of walked and transition our defense from the 3-4 to a 4-3 defense. Jernigan is not a true 3-4 linemen. Mosley isn't a true 3-4 Linebacker because he doesn't blockshed well. 

                            4-3 Defense 

      Suggs.  Jernigan.   Pierce.   Garrett 

           Correa.     Mosley.    Onwuasor   

Smith.  Jefferson. Weddle. Tabor/wilson

Ravens defense would finally be back. 

I guess Mosley wasn't a true 3-4 ILB when he played all those years for Bama either...

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On 3/7/2017 at 6:02 PM, ellicottraven said:

Nope he's not. But let's hope he has better honor and character than playing like a bottom dweller QB on purpose. Even if he plays horribly I don't think its because he wants to play horribly. It can be because he's regressed severely. But, I am hopeful that we'll see a 40 TD 10 INT - 5000 yard Flacco with about 10 ypc.

Or better still I would just like him to be regular ole Joe trhowing 20-24 times a game for about 200 yds, 1 TD no INT and hands the ball over more than he throws! That now is a recipe for success.

Realistic, we haven't gotten peak market value out of Joe's contract, but he hasn't gone full Cutler either. He needs to play better, but it's not all on him. That being said, if we lower are exceptions to the point were Joe is posting average stats for maybe the early 2000s/90s, what was the point of even paying him? Yes, Joe does better with an active run game, but why give him big bucks in the first place if you expect him to play like Alex Smith?

Edited by ravensnick
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1 minute ago, ravensnick said:

Realistic, we haven't gotten peak market value out of Joe's contract, but he hasn't gone full Cutler either. He needs to play better, but it's not all on him. That being said, if we lower are exceptions to the point were Joe is posting average stats for maybe the early 2000s/90s, what was the point of even paying him? Yes, Joe does better with an active run game, but why give him big bucks in the first place if you expect him to play like Alex Smith?

The problem is we gave Joe a ton of money just to forget to get him an O-line and some guys to throw to. Getting a good run game definitely wouldn't hurt either, but that comes with the O-line.

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1 hour ago, ravensnick said:

I guess Mosley wasn't a true 3-4 ILB when he played all those years for Bama either...

He can do it, no doubt, but his skill set is much, much better suited to a 4-3 tampa 2 style.

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Mods have popped me before for cursing with special letters to avoid the typical protocol, so don't be surprised to see your post deleted.

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Posters in this huge thread please remember we are on a message board not an emoji/.gif board so please add some your wisdom to the thread.  There are several posters that others feel are trolling   :feedtroll:         The post of the gentleman above is a wise one to follow!   Thanks people.

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On 3/13/2017 at 8:54 AM, OUravensfan said:

Forget trading him to Cleveland, let's get Peyton Manning out of retirement 

(To the tune of the Nationwide jingle)

"Ravens nation is awesome"

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16 hours ago, ravensnick said:

Realistic, we haven't gotten peak market value out of Joe's contract, but he hasn't gone full Cutler either. He needs to play better, but it's not all on him. That being said, if we lower are exceptions to the point were Joe is posting average stats for maybe the early 2000s/90s, what was the point of even paying him? Yes, Joe does better with an active run game, but why give him big bucks in the first place if you expect him to play like Alex Smith?

the problem is not that joe is posting average stats for the early 2000s/90s his stats are way more pass-era oriented - if anything we need him to go back to older times - we dont want him throwing as much as he did last year or getting to 4000 yards unless the YPA is much higher - and no one expects him to play like alex smith but we also are realistic - he's a franchise qb who you have to pay or he doesnt stay and therefore your organisation goes as he goes which wasnt very good last year but he has shown he can be a top 10 qb - just look at how well he played two years ago when he had a running game (he didnt even have a great receiving corps that year) - give joe an offensive line and a running game and have him another year removed from the ACL and he will look much better - now if in another year or two he still hasnt improved then that's when you start getting worried but that's also when you can start thinking about replacing him if thats the case - as it is now joe is our guy and he is paid at market value for his talent so there's no real reason to complain about it

in terms of alex smith - he's not paid much differently to flacco - its just those contracts were structured a slightly different way - flacco got a much larger signing bonus but smith is paid more as a base salary - the actual difference is only about 4-5 million a year i think which is fair given their differing ceilings - and as the chiefs are finding out, alex smith can get you to a great regular season record but as soon as you hit the playoffs and you have more evenly matched teams, he is proving that he probably cant win you a superbowl

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our offense has not gotten the memo its a passing league apperently lol

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haters like Virginia55 refused to comprehend facts; reality question is who will replace Joe if we cut him? Matty Choker? Playoff-less Dalton? unaccomplished Romo? or better yet, one of a kind, Brock Osweiler? and I heard he's up for 50% discount from Cleveland.  

 

Haters just blatantly want to see someone they hate getting cut and are clueless on the consequences.....like dropping your established franchised QB so we can continue to search 10yr for another franchise QB or paying someone old washed up QB or unproved rookie QB with bunch of money to keep the whole team backed up for another 10yrs; it sounds like an epic plan that the Cleveland Browns have been scripting.....

People are telling me to put down my purple shades to see the truth, but even I can see the truth through my purple shades and why can't those with non purple shades see the real situation?

 

/mind-boggled.....

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On 3/13/2017 at 10:08 AM, Purple&Black#20 said:

I agree with trading him to Cleveland for both there first round picks. Just bite the bullet and move on. We draft Garrett with the first pick and Mike Williams or Cory Davis with the 12th pick because we didn't give Pryor 8 million for 1 year. Cleveland is desperate and probably will pull the trigger. Draft CB Tabor or Wilson from Florida in the 2ND and build the offensive line in the 3rd. The Brandon William deal is probably another set back. He should of walked and transition our defense from the 3-4 to a 4-3 defense. Jernigan is not a true 3-4 linemen. Mosley isn't a true 3-4 Linebacker because he doesn't blockshed well. 

                            4-3 Defense 

      Suggs.  Jernigan.   Pierce.   Garrett 

           Correa.     Mosley.    Onwuasor   

Smith.  Jefferson. Weddle. Tabor/wilson

Ravens defense would finally be back. 

It's absolutely hilarious that some of you guys think that Flacco is so worthless, but we'd get two 1st rounders for him despite being so worthless. Which one is it?? LOL!

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20 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

the problem is not that joe is posting average stats for the early 2000s/90s his stats are way more pass-era oriented - if anything we need him to go back to older times - we dont want him throwing as much as he did last year or getting to 4000 yards unless the YPA is much higher - and no one expects him to play like alex smith but we also are realistic - he's a franchise qb who you have to pay or he doesnt stay and therefore your organisation goes as he goes which wasnt very good last year but he has shown he can be a top 10 qb - just look at how well he played two years ago when he had a running game (he didnt even have a great receiving corps that year) - give joe an offensive line and a running game and have him another year removed from the ACL and he will look much better - now if in another year or two he still hasnt improved then that's when you start getting worried but that's also when you can start thinking about replacing him if thats the case - as it is now joe is our guy and he is paid at market value for his talent so there's no real reason to complain about it

in terms of alex smith - he's not paid much differently to flacco - its just those contracts were structured a slightly different way - flacco got a much larger signing bonus but smith is paid more as a base salary - the actual difference is only about 4-5 million a year i think which is fair given their differing ceilings - and as the chiefs are finding out, alex smith can get you to a great regular season record but as soon as you hit the playoffs and you have more evenly matched teams, he is proving that he probably cant win you a superbowl

As much as people want to give Flacco crap, he was coming off of an injury which affected his accuracy a bit. I bet there will be a huge improvement next year.

I agree with you I mean look at the supporting cast Flacco has had.... Looking at the film his YPA was so low because of the receivers inability to get open on a consistent basis. He had to dump the ball off to West or Dixon too many times last year. Also the offense was built around the short passes and screens which is not Flacco's strength which still baffles me the team even went that way last season.

I mean you have a 37 year old receiver coming off a torn achilles last season, Mike Wallace (a speedster), and Perriman (a speedster) and you are running screens and short curls and expect them all to come up with shifty YAC.

The Ravens need to get back to getting those 4-5 yard power runs with the big deep throws a few times a game. 

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1 hour ago, flynismo said:

It's absolutely hilarious that some of you guys think that Flacco is so worthless, but we'd get two 1st rounders for him despite being so worthless. Which one is it?? LOL!

Hue Jackson is the Cleveland Browns Coach and feels he can get the most out any quarterback. That's why I say cleveland would probably do it. 

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59 minutes ago, Purple&Black#20 said:

Hue Jackson is the Cleveland Browns Coach and feels he can get the most out any quarterback. That's why I say cleveland would probably do it. 

Well there's an opinion. #1 and #12 (I think) for a guy we should bail on. To a team in the same division. But they will probably do it cuz Hue Jackson and Browns.

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The folks that go routinely to the wall for Flacco give him too little credit. 

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2 hours ago, Edgar said:

The folks that go routinely to the wall for Flacco give him too little credit. 

I believe he receives to much credit at times. Look man, he has the talent and arm strength to be a great quarterback. But he doesn't approach the game like that. You can look in his eyes and don't see any passion for what he's doing. That's the biggest problem I have with him. I can say he sucks and you can feel he's good or great whatever seems fit. I can live with a man giving me 100% a lose. That's fine. But looking like Jay Cutler in a raven uniform gets under my skin. I need more effort out the guy. Not looking for a Brady but for for Flacco to step up and take his place in the top 5 (talent wise) where he should be. 

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2 hours ago, Purple&Black#20 said:

I believe he receives to much credit at times. Look man, he has the talent and arm strength to be a great quarterback. But he doesn't approach the game like that. You can look in his eyes and don't see any passion for what he's doing. That's the biggest problem I have with him. I can say he sucks and you can feel he's good or great whatever seems fit. I can live with a man giving me 100% a lose. That's fine. But looking like Jay Cutler in a raven uniform gets under my skin. I need more effort out the guy. Not looking for a Brady but for for Flacco to step up and take his place in the top 5 (talent wise) where he should be. 

What I'm saying is that more should be expected of him. There's no acceptable reason why we shouldn't see  the Joe we saw week 16 in Pittsburgh on a regular basis.

That was a guy someone would give up three first rounders for. That was elite quarterback play. That was inspired. That was a leader guys will follow. More importantly, that is what he's capable of being and he should be held to that standard. 

 

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and I don't want none of the above, I want to .............*Dave Chappelle R.Kelly voice*

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On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 9:19 AM, trevorsteadman said:

As much as people want to give Flacco crap, he was coming off of an injury which affected his accuracy a bit. I bet there will be a huge improvement next year.

I agree with you I mean look at the supporting cast Flacco has had.... Looking at the film his YPA was so low because of the receivers inability to get open on a consistent basis. He had to dump the ball off to West or Dixon too many times last year. Also the offense was built around the short passes and screens which is not Flacco's strength which still baffles me the team even went that way last season.

I mean you have a 37 year old receiver coming off a torn achilles last season, Mike Wallace (a speedster), and Perriman (a speedster) and you are running screens and short curls and expect them all to come up with shifty YAC.

The Ravens need to get back to getting those 4-5 yard power runs with the big deep throws a few times a game. 

Your arguments are way to logical and objective! I agree with your assessment almost entirely but would add that Dennis Pitta was also coming off a dislocated and second fractured hip injury. Additionally, the O-line Joe has had to work with after the Super Bowl run has been slightly less than stellar. You will never convince his critics though. They will continue to produce stats that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Joe had a lousy, stinking year despite the fact he threw for more than 4,000 yards. Yes, his YPA was low this year but so were the YAC stats for his some of his receivers who couldn't catch a cold. I'd include Wallace, Aiken, Perriman, Waller and Moore in that list. The best play all year for a Raven receiver getting some YAC was the TD play that SSS made against Cincy and as you pointed out Steve is 37. Hey, maybe Justin Tucker should try out as a receiver, huh? He made some circus catches in practice at the Pro Bowl! The guy was non-chalantly catching one-handed and back-handed. Give him an O-line and you'll see the Old Joe Flacco back. 

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27 minutes ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

They will continue to produce stats that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Joe had a lousy, stinking year despite the fact he threw for more than 4,000 yards. Yes, his YPA was low this year

The issue is the last point, which you attempted to gloss over.

Flacco led the league in passes for 16 weeks and barely fell short of first when Brees passed him in the final week of the season.

He had a paltry 6.4 yards per attempt to go along with only 20 touchdowns. 

For that many passes, you'd love to see closer to 5,000 and 30.

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41 minutes ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

Your arguments are way to logical and objective! I agree with your assessment almost entirely but would add that Dennis Pitta was also coming off a dislocated and second fractured hip injury. Additionally, the O-line Joe has had to work with after the Super Bowl run has been slightly less than stellar. You will never convince his critics though. They will continue to produce stats that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Joe had a lousy, stinking year despite the fact he threw for more than 4,000 yards. Yes, his YPA was low this year but so were the YAC stats for his some of his receivers who couldn't catch a cold. I'd include Wallace, Aiken, Perriman, Waller and Moore in that list. The best play all year for a Raven receiver getting some YAC was the TD play that SSS made against Cincy and as you pointed out Steve is 37. Hey, maybe Justin Tucker should try out as a receiver, huh? He made some circus catches in practice at the Pro Bowl! The guy was non-chalantly catching one-handed and back-handed. Give him an O-line and you'll see the Old Joe Flacco back. 

Yeah, I think Joe did fine considering the circumstances. He was improving all year while gaining confidence in his knee. If the Ravens can somehow find "that guy" in the draft, and/or if some of the underachievers already on the squad begin to produce The Flacco will be The Boss. 

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On 3/17/2017 at 8:22 AM, flynismo said:

It's absolutely hilarious that some of you guys think that Flacco is so worthless, but we'd get two 1st rounders for him despite being so worthless. Which one is it?? LOL!

Sure! They're talking about giving up the #1 pick for Garrapolo and perhaps another high draft pick next year. So, what's so strange about expecting 2 first round picks for Flacco who's won a SB in 2012? In fact I would expect more no matter how Flacco has played since then. Garrapolo has exactly 2-4 games of starting experience if that....  and no QB in this league who's a starter is worthless period. Flacco is certainly not. Let me state I don't think he's elite or in the top echelon of QBs' (Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc.right now, but he's surely somewhere in the second tier.

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5 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Sure! They're talking about giving up the #1 pick for Garrapolo and perhaps another high draft pick next year. So, what's so strange about expecting 2 first round picks for Flacco who's won a SB in 2012? In fact I would expect more no matter how Flacco has played since then. Garrapolo has exactly 2-4 games of starting experience if that....  and no QB in this league who's a starter is worthless period. Flacco is certainly not. Let me state I don't think he's elite or in the top echelon of QBs' (Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc.right now, but he's surely somewhere in the second tier.

But if he's in the second tier why would we get rid of him...

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