Joe Flacco: Tough Talk

[gtalk12]

On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 7:56 PM, nextgen_RavensFan said:

I wish we could stop comparing ourselves to the Steelers. They have a great system that can develop Offensive weapons and we can not and never could. We were good at drafting many moons ago and lived off of that success for years but never got "lucky" in the draft again so we never replaced the talent. Now, just like the past few seasons it is showing. The organization dropped the ball on the contract with Joe, way too much money for him. How many teams can afford a top tier QB and field top tier receivers ? Teams need to be able to develop the young guys like the Patriots, Packers Steelers and many others do but we just for some reason develop receivers. The defensive side is not much better in developing talent, CB's, Safeties etc. 

drafting and retaining players have been the biggest issues as of late in the offseason

[gtalk12]

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 3:51 PM, Virginia 55 said:

Can we put Flacco on that list?  I'm really curious how many teams would want him at his current contract.  

The reason we are stuck with him is because nobody in the league will take him at his current number. 

 

You don't think the Broncos would love him there? With that cast of WR's? With his arm in that stadium? sheesh...

[I*Bleed*Purple]

1 hour ago, gtalk12 said:

 

You don't think the Broncos would love him there? With that cast of WR's? With his arm in that stadium? sheesh...

No, John Elway wouldn't take our doofus QB. 

[gtalk12]

48 minutes ago, I*Bleed*Purple said:

No, John Elway wouldn't take our doofus QB. 

here we go

 

[RayRayRaven]

9 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

you type like a Dolan meme. 

and you clearly missed the point by a mile and a half.

? whats dolon meme mean?

the point was macjacet layed out how joe flacco is average and we are payin him large and fieldin less but give me a brake this keyboard sticks

[RayRayRaven]

2 hours ago, gtalk12 said:

drafting and retaining players have been the biggest issues as of late in the offseason

fur sur

2 hours ago, gtalk12 said:

 

You don't think the Broncos would love him there? With that cast of WR's? With his arm in that stadium? sheesh...

yah but don't want two 1's from denver

32 minutes ago, gtalk12 said:

here we go

 

two 1's can be gotten

[Tank 92]

So "Tough Talk" makes reaches the 100 page mark.  yay.    lol

[Moderator 3]

1 hour ago, Tank 92 said:

So "Tough Talk" makes reaches the 100 page mark.  yay.    lol

WAY more than that if you're a mod. 

[Bltravens]

On 2017-01-18 at 6:43 PM, gtalk12 said:

Collins? Really? A guy who for his career only won 3 playoff games? Last I checked nobody won with Kerry Collins.

Flacco has a better playoff record no doubt but Collins went to the playoffs 3 times as a starter and they've been to the same number of Super Bowls.  Collins just ran into the best defense of all time in his.  Collins and Flacco's physical skill set is quite similar and they both relied on equally complimentary run/pass games to be successful.  They just played in vastly different eras for QBs.

 

Essentially what I was trying to get at with my original post is that Flacco will never be a top 5 QB and people need to accept that.  People also need to accept that he's not bottom 5 and that you can win with him.  Just the FO has to be more deliberate in what it does to a roster to make him successful.

Edited January 21 by Bltravens

[Jonah DeVito]

I always see people saying Flacco has to have talent around him to win. He has to have a good RB, good WR, a good O line, a good defense. Well, he won us a super bowl with a completely average defense, ranked like 16th or something that year. So that's out the window. And yes Flacco isn't a QB who can absolutely carry his team. But who can? What quarterback can win a super bowl with a subpar cast? The only two that anyone can even argue for are Rodgers and Brady. No one can argue that Flacco is on their level, but no one is. They are 2 of the greatest QBs of all time. Who else doesn't need a good supporting cast to win? Matt Ryan, who might be the MVP this season? Nope. He has one of the best supporting casts in the NFL and a very underrated defense. Big Ben? Nope. Andrew Luck? Nope. Drew Brees? nah. Russell Wilson? Cam Newton? I'm tired of hearing that Flacco needs a lot of help. Everyone does. Football is a team sport and one man doesn't win or lose games. I'll even give Flacco a pass for most of this season as he was recovering from an ACL injury. If he plays poorly next season, then I'll start worrying. Otherwise, I'm getting sick of people trashing Joe and only Joe 

[OUravensfan]

Just wanted to be able to post on page 100

[redrum52]

4 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

WAY more than that if you're a mod. 

Might as well just let this live or start an annual Joe Flacco thread.

[PurpleCity5]

13 hours ago, Jonah DeVito said:

I always see people saying Flacco has to have talent around him to win. He has to have a good RB, good WR, a good O line, a good defense. Well, he won us a super bowl with a completely average defense, ranked like 16th or something that year. So that's out the window. And yes Flacco isn't a QB who can absolutely carry his team. But who can? What quarterback can win a super bowl with a subpar cast? The only two that anyone can even argue for are Rodgers and Brady. No one can argue that Flacco is on their level, but no one is. They are 2 of the greatest QBs of all time. Who else doesn't need a good supporting cast to win? Matt Ryan, who might be the MVP this season? Nope. He has one of the best supporting casts in the NFL and a very underrated defense. Big Ben? Nope. Andrew Luck? Nope. Drew Brees? nah. Russell Wilson? Cam Newton? I'm tired of hearing that Flacco needs a lot of help. Everyone does. Football is a team sport and one man doesn't win or lose games. I'll even give Flacco a pass for most of this season as he was recovering from an ACL injury. If he plays poorly next season, then I'll start worrying. Otherwise, I'm getting sick of people trashing Joe and only Joe 

What I've noticed about those QBs, specifically Ryan and Big Ben is that outside of their #1s, they're not very impressive in terms of the depth of their wide receivers. I'm not blown away by Sanu, Rodgers, or Hardy, it's just that Julio and AB are just so good that it does a whole lot for other guys and it goes a long way. 

I think the Ravens need someone who can attack those short/intermediate routes on a consistent basis, who can body CBs and win inside position time and time again. In a sense, I would honestly say that Anquan Boldin was close to a perfect fit for what you wanted to do in a WCO. He ran the vertical and shallow routes with ease and dared CBs to press on him, and when they did, they could just couldn't get physical with Anquan. Steve Smith is another guy, but I don't think he had the size/height of Anquan to just high-point the ball and take it away from defenders like you saw him do against New England. Even though I think Steve Smith Sr. is a better player, and definitely fit this offense, I think the Ravens need someone else outside of Smith Sr. who can do the same things, sadly no one stepped up to the plate in that role outside of Smith.

If the Ravens can't win on the short/intermediate routes, then you can forget about having a good offense come 2018. 

Edited January 22 by PurpleCity5

[Virginia 55]

I would love to see a poll of how many people today, as opposed to yesteryears, agrees that Flacco should even be on this team moving forward. 

 

The guy has been really bad.  He brings no outstanding qualities to the position.  His big arm comes to mind here, but he is so inaccurate it doesn't matter.

Edited March 5 by Virginia 55

[usmccharles]

9 hours ago, Virginia 55 said:

I would love to see a poll of how many people today, as opposed to yesteryears, agrees that Flacco should even be on this team moving forward. 

 

The guy has been really bad.  He brings no outstanding qualities to the position.  His big arm comes to mind here,but he so inaccurate it doesn't matter.

I do. 

[Deflated Football]

10 hours ago, Virginia 55 said:

I would love to see a poll of how many people today, as opposed to yesteryears, agrees that Flacco should even be on this team moving forward. 

 

The guy has been really bad.  He brings no outstanding qualities to the position.  His big arm comes to mind here,but he so inaccurate it doesn't matter.

Well we don't really have a replacement at the moment. That paired with his price tag makes it extremely plausible that he's a Raven for the next four to five years. 

[Ravenseconbeast]

On 1/21/2017 at 0:13 PM, gtalk12 said:

 

You don't think the Broncos would love him there? With that cast of WR's? With his arm in that stadium? sheesh...

The fans would go on a riot and demand Elway to be fired if they brang in Joe Flacco w/ the current contract.   You really have a pretty closed minded perception how much of a laughing stock Joe is outside RavensNation.  

[ellicottraven]

Here's Flacco's cap figures and dead money situation after we signed him to an extension. Looking at it we can all safely assume that Flacco is going nowhere till at least 2020 regardless if he stinks to high heavens or plays like a super star period. All we can do is give him all the help possible - QB coach, Great coordinator, great O-line, great receivers, great running game, etc. and hope for the best! I think if we provide him all the help he can be a good QB in this league.

Edited February 27 by ellicottraven

[RayRayRaven]

you need to revise those numbrs. to show what his new team pics up in comin yrs.  its a good deal to trade him. we will take a hit but not what u yellowed. doan make me write the hole comprehesuv plan!!!  just know it involvs 2 number 1's for joe and sam dranold.

3 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

Here's Flacco's cap figures and dead money situation after we signed him to an extension. Looking at it we can all safely assume that Flacco is going nowhere till at least 2020 regardless if he stinks to high heavens or plays like a super star period. All we can do is give him all the help possible - QB coach, Great coordinator, great O-line, great receivers, great running game, etc. and hope for the best! I think if we provide him all the help he can be a good QB in this league.

 

[RayRayRaven]

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 8:18 AM, Virginia 55 said:

I would love to see a poll of how many people today, as opposed to yesteryears, agrees that Flacco should even be on this team moving forward. 

 

The guy has been really bad.  He brings no outstanding qualities to the position.  His big arm comes to mind here,but he so inaccurate it doesn't matter.

I dont he's a tool to use now. we can rebuild this team without him and it needs rebuilded without or with him. but we kill ourselvs if we wait one more yr.  its now o r nevah.  the future belongs to the seers

Edited February 28 by RayRayRaven

[JoeyFlex5]

28 minutes ago, RayRayRaven said:

you need to revise those numbrs. to show what his new team pics up in comin yrs.  its a good deal to trade him. we will take a hit but not what u yellowed. doan make me write the hole comprehesuv plan!!!  just know it involvs 2 number 1's for joe and sam dranold.

 

As you can clearly see, his cap hit is 24m, his dead money is a whopping 23m more than that. That is 47million against the cap in 2017, so let's break down what this means... 

The ravens currently have 15m cap space, cutting joe flacco means that we have to clear 32m just to break even. Let's go over this one as well... the ravens have few players they can cut to clear massive cap space because there is a fair bit of dead cap tied up, we would need to Cut yanda to save 2m, doom to save 6, Wallace to save 6, pitta to save 3, Webb to save 5, Suggs to save 1, wright to save 3(need to anyway), zuttaj to save 2, Arrington to save 2, Jernigan to save 1, and at that point you still have to clear 2mil just to be at the cap, and after those cuts there is only savings of fractions of a million, you would need to cut another 4 or 5 players to hit that cap, at this point you literally don't have a team to field. 

Now, the draft class usually costs about 8m a year, you have to clear that up as well which would be nearly impossible because the savings just wouldn't be there. But you want 2 first round picks so the required space would be even higher. 

I could go on about free agents that would be due that we couldn't resign, but we would've cut them all anyway so it wouldnt matter and the franchise would have to fold and forfeit the 2017 season for not having a team to field. 

That is what happens when you take on joes dead cap, this is why nobody is on board with your super duper comprehensuv plan.

[mg90]

"ima type sum nan sense nd cee if day act smert four my lulz"

 

Whole lot of that going on in here. Slightly funny though. We know they can't be serious right?

[ellicottraven]

4 hours ago, RayRayRaven said:

you need to revise those numbrs. to show what his new team pics up in comin yrs.  its a good deal to trade him. we will take a hit but not what u yellowed. doan make me write the hole comprehesuv plan!!!  just know it involvs 2 number 1's for joe and sam dranold.

 

What exactly are you talking about? I'm kind of not following what you're trying to convey...

[redrum52]

I feel like the Flacco fan club sent a sleeper cell in here to make anyone who criticize him look bad.  There's no way that person is being serious.  That is all...

[Tru11]

3 hours ago, redrum52 said:

I feel like the Flacco fan club sent a sleeper cell in here to make anyone who criticize him look bad.  There's no way that person is being serious.  That is all...

probably one of them on an alt lol

 

[Willbacker]

13 hours ago, RayRayRaven said:

you need to revise those numbrs. to show what his new team pics up in comin yrs.  its a good deal to trade him. we will take a hit but not what u yellowed. doan make me write the hole comprehesuv plan!!!  just know it involvs 2 number 1's for joe and sam dranold.

 

No it'd be the column to the far right not the one yellowed. So that's better. Who we getting 2 # 1's and Sam Darnold from anyways? If Joe is worth that to you then why trade him lol? You totally understand nothing about the cap amigo. We stuck with Joe 2 yrs minimum whether we like it or not. Get used to it and accept it hahahaha.

[RayRayRaven]

7 hours ago, Willbacker said:

No it'd be the column to the far right not the one yellowed. So that's better. Who we getting 2 # 1's and Sam Darnold from anyways? If Joe is worth that to you then why trade him lol? You totally understand nothing about the cap amigo. We stuck with Joe 2 yrs minimum whether we like it or not. Get used to it and accept it hahahaha.

not sayin joe is worth 2 number 1s.  dont believe he s worth two number 3's, but the 1s are what we can get for him. but its now or nevah. joe is jay cutler with a team superbowl. this card has to be played now. is there dead cap to eat yes. is it as bad as folks are layin out .NO.  there is pain but dumpin halfthe team is not necessary. dumpin some players is and is part of the plan.most of those players are end of career. many are easy tosses. this is NOT about next year. It is about a rebirth of 2008 in 2019 or 2020. we are not a good team and will not be better without drastic change of direction includin thouse that put us in this position. as they said in nam we are in a world of hurt lets come out of it bettr than we went in 

[usmccharles]

19 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

What exactly are you talking about? I'm kind of not following what you're trying to convey...

In "his world"  hes talking about some trade or some other non-sense that we get rid of Joe.  Its been explain to him its basically impossible numerous times, yet he doesnt even try to understand and clearly a troll.  He has no clue what he is talking about.  Quite comical. 

[RayRayRaven]

3 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

In "his world"  hes talking about some trade or some other non-sense that we get rid of Joe.  Its been explain to him its basically impossible numerous times, yet he doesnt even try to understand and clearly a troll.  He has no clue what he is talking about.  Quite comical. 

not even close. there is no gain without pain. all those that would favor as is see is the pain. the coach is coachin for his life. the gm is workin on his retiremend, the owner is smokin his cigars and hopin on his flacco  and they are all as happy as clam beds. they cant eat the dead money cuz eatin it is the pain and the pain would end their cozy numbness. the comfortable numb.  they can accept mediogre, but they can't accept disruptin their cozy cuz they built that. but there is a sivler lining. and it is the gain that follows the pain.  eat the dead money

[usmccharles]

1 minute ago, RayRayRaven said:

not even close. there is no gain without pain. all those that would favor as is see is the pain. the coach is coachin for his life. the gm is workin on his retiremend, the owner is smokin his cigars and hopin on his flacco  and they are all as happy as clam beds. they cant eat the dead money cuz eatin it is the pain and the pain would end their cozy numbness. the comfortable numb.  they can accept mediogre, but they can't accept disruptin their cozy cuz they built that. but there is a sivler lining. and it is the gain that follows the pain.  eat the dead money

Point proven.