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sflegend89

Joe Flacco: Tough Talk

3,222 posts in this topic

Joe Flacco: 12th most sacked QB, sacked 14 times, 5 TD's, 6 INT's, 75.4 QBR

Andrew Luck: 1st most sacked QB, sacked 25 times, 14 TD's, 4 INT's, 98.3 QBR

Matt Ryan: Tied for 3rd most sacked QB, sacked 18 times, 16 TD's, 4 INT's, 113.6 QBR

Matthew Stafford: Tied for 3rd most sacked QB, sacked 18 times, 15 TD's, 4 INT's, 105.7 QBR

Philip Rivers: 6th most sacked QB, Sacked 17 times, 13 TD'S, 4 INT's, 102.4 QBR

Facts:

- Joe Flacco has the 29th worst QBR in the NFL 

- Andrew Luck has been sacked NEARLY TWICE as much as Joe Flacco yet is dominating him in every statistical category, Colts have what many feel is worst OL in football

- Only other QB's besides Flacco in entire NFL with negative TD-INT ratio are Case Keenum and Ryan Fitzpatrick

 

Enough excuses for Joe, I'm a long time supporter of his even through rough patches but this is different. This year so far he's not elite... not average... not even below average, he's amongst the very worst starting QB's in the entire NFL. Everything from his mechanics, to his accuracy, to his overall passing stats tell us so. Guys like Rivers have comparable weapons/OL and are blowing him out of the water.

 

Edited by sflegend89
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6 minutes ago, GhostofGrbac said:

I'm sure this will be merged. Some people can't handle the truth on here. They'd rather burry it in an existing thread. 

I don't doubt it. I couldn't be anything further from a Flacco hater either, I've stood up for him through every cycle of criticism he's faced up to this point. 

But I think being honest is important, I never expect him to wow with his stats, but his play is so astronomically bad this year that it must be acknowledged, you can see it in his mechanics and body language, the stats just give you a complimentary set of data for it.

Edited by sflegend89
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No merge from me (for now). This one is different from the not practicing and the rather have threads.  If it morphs into "rather have" it will get merged, though.  I just ask that you try to be more original than "he sucks, bench him".  That's old and not productive.  A list of his faults will get us nowhere.

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Duane Starks: 

Starks responding to a question about making a change at quarterback because Flacco was taking a beating behind a porous offensive line - “Beating or no beating, I’d pull [Flacco] out of the game. The honest truth is he lost the game for the Ravens. That is the way I look at it. He gave up ten points [off of his interceptions]... And Flacco did not claim it, when they asked about the interception to Perriman, he said it was a timing pass. No, it was a bad pass in a one-on-one situation. Claim it. Don't say ‘we’, it was you today!” Jackson followed Starks by saying - “[Flacco] has to play better, he is the quarterback, he is the franchise. They paid him a bunch of money, and that is fine....but when you come out in the second half and only have 43 yards of total offense in the second half, 2.5 yards per pass completion, 2 of 8 on third down. [He] is the quarterback, he is the engine, everybody is looking at him and he is not getting it done.”

 

http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2016/10/24/13380522/icymi-former-ravens-duane-starks-and-brad-jackson-rip-joe-flacco

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Just now, Moderator 3 said:

No merge from me (for now). This one is different from the not practicing and the rather have threads.  If it morphs into "rather have" it will get merged, though.  I just ask that you try to be more original than "he sucks, bench him".  That's old and not productive.

To be fair so are the constant excuses. 

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1 minute ago, Moderator 3 said:

No merge from me (for now). This one is different from the not practicing and the rather have threads.  If it morphs into "rather have" it will get merged, though.  I just ask that you try to be more original than "he sucks, bench him".  That's old and not productive.

 

but plenty of 'blame/cut/sucks on ozzie/harbaugh/oline/suggs' is fine by your book.  Understood.

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1 minute ago, GhostofGrbac said:

To be fair so are the constant excuses. 

But we don't have separate threads for those.  Just try to do better than complaining about his play. That does no one any good.  

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1 minute ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

but plenty of 'blame/cut/sucks on ozzie/harbaugh/oline/suggs' is fine by your book.  Understood.

What the hell are you talking about? 

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Just now, Moderator 3 said:

No merge from me (for now). This one is different from the not practicing and the rather have threads.  If it morphs into "rather have" it will get merged, though.  I just ask that you try to be more original than "he sucks, bench him".  That's old and not productive.

Co-sign this. Thread was made to analyze Joe's performance, account for circumstances, and be honest about where he currently stands in the landscape of starting NFL QB's. 

I ask that this doesn't devolve into a low brow hate thread. As I've stated I'm a long time supporter and fan of Joe.

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Just now, Moderator 3 said:

What the hell are you talking about? 

He's criticizing the community for protecting Flacco, who played maybe the worst game I've seen him play since the five INT game vs. Buffalo three years ago. 

 

While Flacco has played like trash, giving up on him immediately is foolish beyond human belief. How did he regress this much? 

 

I don't know. Hopefully he turns it around. But the rest of the offense does too. The entire damn offense has been a crap show. Pinning the blame solely on Joe is moronic beyond human belief. 

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3 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

But we don't have separate threads for those.  Just try to do better than complaining about his play. That does no one any good.  

So basically don't criticize Joe? 

 

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3 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

What the hell are you talking about? 

if you haven't noticed.  the whole forum is 'blame/sucks' thread about everyone in the organization.   So your logic of asking '  I just ask that you try to be more original than "he sucks, bench him".  That's old and not productive ' is silly

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27 minutes ago, sflegend89 said:

Joe Flacco: 12th most sacked QB, sacked 14 times, 5 TD's, 6 INT's, 75.4 QBR

Andrew Luck: 1st most sacked QB, sacked 25 times, 14 TD's, 4 INT's, 98.3 QBR

Matt Ryan: Tied for 3rd most sacked QB, sacked 18 times, 16 TD's, 4 INT's, 113.6 QBR

Matthew Stafford: Tied for 3rd most sacked QB, sacked 18 times, 15 TD's, 4 INT's, 105.7 QBR

Philip Rivers: 6th most sacked QB, Sacked 17 times, 13 TD'S, 4 INT's, 102.4 QBR

Facts:

- Joe Flacco has the 29th worst QBR in the NFL 

- Andrew Luck has been sacked NEARLY TWICE as much as Joe Flacco yet is dominating him in every statistical category, Colts have what many feel is worst OL in football

- Only other QB's besides Flacco in entire NFL with negative TD-INT ratio are Case Keenum and Ryan Fitzpatrick

 

Enough excuses for Joe, I'm a long time supporter of his even through rough patches but this is different. This year so far he's not elite... not average... not even below average, he's amongst the very worst starting QB's in the entire NFL. Everything from his mechanics, to his accuracy, to his overall passing stats tell us so. Guys like Rivers have comparable weapons/OL and are blowing him out of the water.

 

I see where you are going with these comparisons, and of course there is no argument, but ultimately different people respond differently to different situations.  Maybe Luck flat out takes a hit better than Joe.  Maybe Joe is just sick and tired of getting hit and Luck, just kinda enjoys it. :shrugs:
All that tells me at least is one guy takes a hit better than the other.  Would I prefer Joe take a hit better ? Duh. Of course.  Do I blame him?  No, not one bit.  But I also would prefer Joe take no hits whatsoever.  Wouldn't you?
I see the number there, and I get it.  I do, but how do the numbers look when both Joe and Luck are well protected ?  Who is the better QB when they have the time and tools?
I am a Joe guy and yeah I have no problem admitting he is looking pretty terrible lately.  There are more than a few contributing factors, you can not argue that. ( well you COULD , but you would look like an idiot. ) 
There is no financial incentive to cut or trade Joe.  I can not fathom any reason Mallett as the QB will fix the o-line and other issues.  The QB is a cog in the system, but far from the biggest.  
Lets fix the big cogs and work our way down.

Edited by K-Dog
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1 minute ago, K-Dog said:

Maybe Joe is just sick and tired of getting his and Luck, just kinda enjoys it. :shrugs:
 

 

You really don't believe that do you?

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Sack numbers alone don't paint the entire story of the pass protection situations for all those teams. Flacco has been the most hurried QB in the league by volume and that's exactly what we didn't need the year after an ACL

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5 minutes ago, GhostofGrbac said:

So basically don't criticize Joe? 

 

Criticizing him is fine.  His play deserves that but we don't need another Flacco sucks thread.  There are two in progess now.  We need a plan to fix it.  Why has he deteriorated so badly? Even his biggest critics have to admit that this is the worst they've seen him.  He's going downhill by the week.  How can we reverse that?  

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Just now, OUravensfan said:

Sack numbers alone don't paint the entire story of the pass protection situations for all those teams. Flacco has been the most hurried QB in the league by volume and that's exactly what we didn't need the year after an ACL

Where are you getting this info from? Just curious, I was looking earlier and couldn't find it

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Just now, Ravenseconbeast said:

You really don't believe that do you?

That Luck enjoys getting hit?
No of course not.

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Just now, OUravensfan said:

Sack numbers alone don't paint the entire story of the pass protection situations for all those teams. Flacco has been the most hurried QB in the league by volume and that's exactly what we didn't need the year after an ACL

 

This is from?

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I looked for QB hurry stats and couldn't find them when making this thread. Perhaps available to someone with PFF subscription. 

Look, the disparity is still glaring just with the available major stats. The hurries would give us a total picture though so I welcome anyone that can post a source and not just hear-say.

Edited by sflegend89
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1 minute ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Im pretty sure i've been warned once or twice because i used that word 'crap' from moderators.   Maybe you need a flag and read a full transcript to acknowledge your wrongdoing till you behave yourself.

 

Weird, since I use the word literally all the time. 

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4 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Im pretty sure i've been warned once or twice because i used that word 'crap' from moderators.   Maybe you need a flag and read a full transcript to acknowledge your wrongdoing till you behave yourself.

This is exactly what I didn't want guys, let's have a semi-civilized conversation about this and check the banter at the door.

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Just now, sflegend89 said:

This is exactly what I didn't want guys, let's have a semi-civilized conversation about this and check the banter at the door.

Im going to stop.   Sorry

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17 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Duane Starks: 

Starks responding to a question about making a change at quarterback because Flacco was taking a beating behind a porous offensive line - “Beating or no beating, I’d pull [Flacco] out of the game. The honest truth is he lost the game for the Ravens. That is the way I look at it. He gave up ten points [off of his interceptions]... And Flacco did not claim it, when they asked about the interception to Perriman, he said it was a timing pass. No, it was a bad pass in a one-on-one situation. Claim it. Don't say ‘we’, it was you today!” Jackson followed Starks by saying - “[Flacco] has to play better, he is the quarterback, he is the franchise. They paid him a bunch of money, and that is fine....but when you come out in the second half and only have 43 yards of total offense in the second half, 2.5 yards per pass completion, 2 of 8 on third down. [He] is the quarterback, he is the engine, everybody is looking at him and he is not getting it done.”

 

http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2016/10/24/13380522/icymi-former-ravens-duane-starks-and-brad-jackson-rip-joe-flacco

Yes, and every QB in the league will insist he can stay in the game and get it done when he is hurt. It is up to the HC to put a stop to it and pull him when it becomes obvious his heart is in it but his body can't get it done. I said as much in another thread, and got totally blasted by you for being a "Flaccopologist."

You have yet to answer me, are you saying Harbaugh should NOT have benched him? Because it seems to me Harbs was sidelined by the stomach flu, and incapable of being tough.

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It's clear something is terribly wrong with Flacco, even with how bad the offensive line is, his mechanics and inaccuracies on throws are incredibly bad this season. 

It seems like every deep throw is thrown off his back foot, I don't even remember the last time I've seen him step into his throws. For a nine year veteran, there isn't any excuse why his mechanics have regress the way that they have. 

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7 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Sometimes they google the word and send me email of definitions like this:  

bi·as
ˈbīəs/
noun
 
  1. 1.
    prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.
    "there was evidence of bias against foreign applicants"
    synonyms: prejudice, partiality, partisanship, favoritism, unfairness, one-sidedness; More
     
     
     

Think ill do the same honor to Moderator 3

Good god, are we in middle school? Have some cheese with your wine.

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2 minutes ago, MTRavensFan said:

Yes, and every QB in the league will insist he can stay in the game and get it done when he is hurt. It is up to the HC to put a stop to it and pull him when it becomes obvious his heart is in it but his body can't get it done. I said as much in another thread, and got totally blasted by you for being a "Flaccopologist."

You have yet to answer me, are you saying Harbaugh should NOT have benched him? Because it seems to me Harbs was sidelined by the stomach flu, and incapable of being tough.

1

Pretty shallow for a moderator.  If this isn't a clear example why moderators should not commingle with enforcing power on forum this is it.  

I said i will stop arguing on this thread.  So i will.

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11 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

This is from?

 

11 minutes ago, GhostofGrbac said:

Where are you getting this info from? Just curious, I was looking earlier and couldn't find it

Ravens Reddit, a PFF account holder summarized some stats right before the Jets game

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