Are the days of Ravens signing good free agent players over?

[Tornado700]

Back in 1999 and 2000, we had a pair of average QB's named Banks and Dilfer making average at best salaries. I can easily remember the Ravens buying some seriously talented free agents. Guys like Sam Adams, Quadry Ismael, Shannon Sharpe, Rob Burnett, Mike McCrary, Goose, and Rod Woodson, et al. This is when Art Modell stated that this team is special and he was right. It begs the question, why can't we sign this kind of talent anymore? Is it because we don't have the money to sign them? And if so, is it because we are paying one guy 120 million dollars?

[rmcjacket23]

9 minutes ago, Tornado700 said:

Back in 1999 and 2000, we had a pair of average QB's named Banks and Dilfer making average at best salaries. I can easily remember the Ravens buying some seriously talented free agents. Guys like Sam Adams, Quadry Ismael, Shannon Sharpe, Rob Burnett, Mike McCrary, Goose, and Rod Woodson, et al. This is when Art Modell stated that this team is special and he was right. It begs the question, why can't we sign this kind of talent anymore? Is it because we don't have the money to sign them? And if so, is it because we are paying one guy 120 million dollars?

Good players, but as stand alone guys, they wouldn't be that impressive on a team that didn't already have a lot of good players.

Short answer... there's very few, if any, teams that I see in this league that can win consistently in the long term by spending large amounts of money on FAs.

We weren't spending high amounts of money on FAs from 2008-2012 when Joe's contract was a great bargain instead of a detriment, and we were winning a LOT then, so I don't think Joe's contract has made our FO deviate from that particular strategy that much. It has made the FO make some tough decisions about internally developed players that they can no longer retain due to rising salary cap amounts of certain players, but that doesn't seem to have much effect on our desire to sign high priced FAs.

[GhostofGrbac]

17 minutes ago, Tornado700 said:

Back in 1999 and 2000, we had a pair of average QB's named Banks and Dilfer making average at best salaries. I can easily remember the Ravens buying some seriously talented free agents. Guys like Sam Adams, Quadry Ismael, Shannon Sharpe, Rob Burnett, Mike McCrary, Goose, and Rod Woodson, et al. This is when Art Modell stated that this team is special and he was right. It begs the question, why can't we sign this kind of talent anymore? Is it because we don't have the money to sign them? And if so, is it because we are paying one guy 120 million dollars?

Joe's deal has something to do with it, but we have a bunch of bad contracts on this team. So many aging veterans not living up to their deals. 

[AsianRice]

25 minutes ago, Tornado700 said:

Back in 1999 and 2000, we had a pair of average QB's named Banks and Dilfer making average at best salaries. I can easily remember the Ravens buying some seriously talented free agents. Guys like Sam Adams, Quadry Ismael, Shannon Sharpe, Rob Burnett, Mike McCrary, Goose, and Rod Woodson, et al. This is when Art Modell stated that this team is special and he was right. It begs the question, why can't we sign this kind of talent anymore? Is it because we don't have the money to sign them? And if so, is it because we are paying one guy 120 million dollars?

today's game evolved greatly around the guy in the center of the offense; you can't win big game without him. Yes, you can have the best defense in the league but you must have a QB who is good enough to drive down the field to win in big moment.

Like Denver last year, they were ranked #1 defense in the league and Manning wasn't playing his best but he did enough to let his defense to close out the game.

 

Therefore, either you have good manager QB who can drive down the field when needed to and great Defense.

Or you have great QB and good defense.

 

When it comes to winning SB, all the cylinders have to click in order to win all the games in the post season. 

 

When we won 2012 SB, our defense were ranked top 20 but when we made a run in the post season, we were playing like top 5 defense in the league.  Everything was clicking....

In the end, it's impossible to avoid paying top bucks for the franchise QB....

[VermontRaven]

46 minutes ago, Tornado700 said:

Back in 1999 and 2000, we had a pair of average QB's named Banks and Dilfer making average at best salaries. I can easily remember the Ravens buying some seriously talented free agents. Guys like Sam Adams, Quadry Ismael, Shannon Sharpe, Rob Burnett, Mike McCrary, Goose, and Rod Woodson, et al. This is when Art Modell stated that this team is special and he was right. It begs the question, why can't we sign this kind of talent anymore? Is it because we don't have the money to sign them? And if so, is it because we are paying one guy 120 million dollars?

I would say steve smith, eric wedde, and mile walace have been greatfa addd. Watson-well never know what he would have brought because of the injury. Problem is we have a lot of darn good players inactive!

[usmccharles]

It of course has something to do with Joe's contract but that's the market value for QBs unless they are on a rookie contract.  And I see no issue with Weddle, SSr, Wallace...ill take those signings any day.  What team that goes out and signs massive contracts to superstar FAs is consistently winning?

[Wildabeast88]

1 hour ago, Tornado700 said:

Back in 1999 and 2000, we had a pair of average QB's named Banks and Dilfer making average at best salaries. I can easily remember the Ravens buying some seriously talented free agents. Guys like Sam Adams, Quadry Ismael, Shannon Sharpe, Rob Burnett, Mike McCrary, Goose, and Rod Woodson, et al. This is when Art Modell stated that this team is special and he was right. It begs the question, why can't we sign this kind of talent anymore? Is it because we don't have the money to sign them? And if so, is it because we are paying one guy 120 million dollars?

Yeah because Weddle was Wallace were terrible signings. Hindsight is 20/20 but the Steelers didn't want Woodson he was 12 or 13 years into his career. Shannon Sharpe same thing he was 10 years in and the Broncos did not want him anymore. Quadry Ismail was an underperformer living of his brothers name. Quadry did not have a catch in 97 and 98 before he became a Raven and had 118 catches in 6 years before becoming a Raven. Goose was a solid player but no superstar. Burnett was a holdover from the Browns and not a FA. McCarty was a promising player who in is 1st 3years had 6.5 sacks and got 13.5 in his 4th year before moving to Baltimore. Sam Adams was a very good player but missed a few games his last year in Seattle and had lost his job in 98 with Seattle. So I wouldn't say signing big name FAs is the way to go, remember Deion Sanders as a Raven. 

[GrimCoconut]

We just signed this guy Eric Weddle, signed Steve Smith Sr a couple years ago, Mike Wallace has looked good at times (clearly not a #1, though) so I don't understand this entire topic.

[Wildabeast88]

1 hour ago, GrimCoconut said:

We just signed this guy Eric Weddle, signed Steve Smith Sr a couple years ago, Mike Wallace has looked good at times (clearly not a #1, though) so I don't understand this entire topic.

Iam totally with you. I don't understand not checking facts McCrary was the only one of his list that had a decent year before coming to Baltimore to be considered a good FA. Then after the 1st Super Bowl we spent a ton of money on a FA QB named Elvis Grbac and that set the franchise back years. 

[ALPHA]

We never seemed to be a top target for the biggest name free agents, but if we keep playing poorly it's going to get harder to bring them in.

[flynismo]

On 10/24/2016 at 4:09 PM, Tornado700 said:

Back in 1999 and 2000, we had a pair of average QB's named Banks and Dilfer making average at best salaries. I can easily remember the Ravens buying some seriously talented free agents. Guys like Sam Adams, Quadry Ismael, Shannon Sharpe, Rob Burnett, Mike McCrary, Goose, and Rod Woodson, et al. This is when Art Modell stated that this team is special and he was right. It begs the question, why can't we sign this kind of talent anymore? Is it because we don't have the money to sign them? And if so, is it because we are paying one guy 120 million dollars?

So, one guy is counting towards like 12% of the salary cap, tell me, how exactly would he alone prevent us from signing quality FA?

The real problem is guys like Webb counting $9.5M against the cap, or Zuttah counting $4.6M, and injuries to Suggs and Dumervil, who combine for nearly $15M

Edited October 27, 2016 by flynismo

[Ravensfan23]

Losing brings out odd questions, topics and statements. i like this fan base much more when the team is winning. 

[Tornado700]

Here here.

[K-Dog]

5 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Losing brings out odd questions, topics and statements. i like this fan base much more when the team is winning. 

Even when we win some of these nut job threads show up.

[January J]

If anything signing free agents is what we've done well. We've gotten guys for cheap who appeared to be done and gotten a lot of production from them and we've parted ways with players right before their production drastically declined. If anything most people say drafting is where the issues have been.

But yeah Dumervil, Steve Smith,  Wallace , Weddle, just to name a few. And they were all steals considering what they've done for us. Watson was a great signing too its a shame we can't see how he would've done here. With the way Joe loves big body targets I can only imagine.

[rmcjacket23]

Again, see 2008-2012. Who were the high priced FAs we signed then?

How did we do during those years?

End thread.

[-Truth-]

On 10/24/2016 at 5:44 PM, GrimCoconut said:

We just signed this guy Eric Weddle, signed Steve Smith Sr a couple years ago, Mike Wallace has looked good at times (clearly not a #1, though) so I don't understand this entire topic.

I have to concur. We've had a rotisserie of FA safeties who've done well for at least one year. Darian Stewart has solidified his standing with two rock solid years thereafter in Denver, Will Hill was a low-risk venture, and we're now onto Eric Weddle, who's arguably the best safety in the entire NFL. Mike Wallace has fared better than most would have expected. Ben Watson sadly didn't have the chance to. Apart from the ones above, specifically after the massive Joe Flacco deal, we've brought in the likes of Elvis Dumervil, Daryl Smith, Justin Forsett, and Steve Smith Sr. All of those players put forth from one to several good seasons. Terrance West has the chance to do the same. The one concern is that most of those players were near or in their 30s during their signing; but the fact that we've been able to consistently squeeze in future overachievers or relative underdogs who fare well for us despite the constant issues with having to work around the salary cap and account for the compensatory selections is one of the biggest strengths of our FO. It's just a puzzling question to ask.

Edited October 27, 2016 by -Truth-

[VermontRaven]

8 hours ago, flynismo said:

So, one guy is counting towards like 12% of the salary cap, tell me, how exactly would he alone prevent us from signing quality FA?

The real problem is guys like Webb counting $9.5M against the cap, or Zuttah counting $4.6M, and injuries to Suggs and Dumervil, who combine for nearly $15M

Excellent points.  In this day and age, even decent QBs get paid because if you don't have a respectable QB, you don't win.  We are paying a ton of money for dwindling production from the veterans you named.  Think about it....replace a couple of these guys with someone like Josh Norman or a big-time WR, etc. and we could be looking at a totally different team.

[rmw10]

11 minutes ago, -Truth- said:

I have to concur. We've had a rotisserie of FA safeties who've done well for at least one year. Darian Stewart has solidified his standing with two rock solid years thereafter in Denver, Will Hill was a low-risk venture, and we're now onto Eric Weddle, who's arguably the best safety in the entire NFL. Mike Wallace has fared better than most would have expected. Ben Watson sadly didn't have the chance to. Apart from the ones above, specifically after the massive Joe Flacco deal, we've brought in the likes of Elvis Dumervil, Daryl Smith, Justin Forsett, and Steve Smith Sr. All of those players put forth at least one good season. Terrance West has the chance to do the same. The one concern is that most of those players were near or in their 30s during their signing; but the fact that we've been able to consistently squeeze in future overachievers or relative underdogs who fare well for us despite the constant issues with having to work around the salary cap and account for the compensatory selections is one of the biggest strengths of our FO. It's just a puzzling question to ask.

Yep.  I think the big difference is that these guys we're signing are now forced to be the key contributors and not the vet FAs that you add to put you over the edge.  I have no problems with signing some older veterans to play large roles, but you need the young talent to go along with them, and that's what we've been lacking.

[-Truth-]

5 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Yep.  I think the big difference is that these guys we're signing are now forced to be the key contributors and not the vet FAs that you add to put you over the edge.  I have no problems with signing some older veterans to play large roles, but you need the young talent to go along with them, and that's what we've been lacking.

On the money there.

[flynismo]

14 minutes ago, VermontRaven said:

Excellent points.  In this day and age, even decent QBs get paid because if you don't have a respectable QB, you don't win.  We are paying a ton of money for dwindling production from the veterans you named.  Think about it....replace a couple of these guys with someone like Josh Norman or a big-time WR, etc. and we could be looking at a totally different team.

Absolutely right; that's more or less what I was suggesting in Webb's and Zuttah's cases; and with Suggs and Dumervil, just being on the field healthy providing past production they have done consistently would be great too...those are the real issues at hand. A couple bad contracts and injuries do a lot more damage than paying your QB market value.

[Steve0x]

No,,, Biscotti will get another free agent player if necessary . 

[jdynamite]

On 10/24/2016 at 3:09 PM, Tornado700 said:

Back in 1999 and 2000, we had a pair of average QB's named Banks and Dilfer making average at best salaries. I can easily remember the Ravens buying some seriously talented free agents. Guys like Sam Adams, Quadry Ismael, Shannon Sharpe, Rob Burnett, Mike McCrary, Goose, and Rod Woodson, et al. This is when Art Modell stated that this team is special and he was right. It begs the question, why can't we sign this kind of talent anymore? Is it because we don't have the money to sign them? And if so, is it because we are paying one guy 120 million dollars?

With the exception of S.Adams & M.McCrary all the other people named were either turning 30 or over 30, willing to negotiate a reasonable contract. In fact this is more than likely a pattern the FO noticed and continued to use but the talent of these older players these just aren't the same as players said back then. 

Guys like Dumervil, Weddle, D.Mason, A.Boldin, T.Pryce, W.McGahee, S.Rolle, M.Birk, C.Canty  fit the description somewhat. 

Edited October 27, 2016 by jdynamite

[Tank 92]

yes, we'll never again sign a good free agent.  

[Cillmatic]

Since when were Michael Pierce, Zach Orr, Weddle and Wallace considered bad free agency pick ups? This fan base is spoiled as hell.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Cillmatic

[Ravensfan23]

10 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Yep.  I think the big difference is that these guys we're signing are now forced to be the key contributors and not the vet FAs that you add to put you over the edge.  I have no problems with signing some older veterans to play large roles, but you need the young talent to go along with them, and that's what we've been lacking.

Honestly I think it's the opposite to a point. I agree that too many FA vet are being relied upon but I don't think this team is lacking any more young talent than years past. I think it's the fact that you don't have that rally behind me veteran that can get the most out of his teammates. I don't think people(not saying you) really realize the impact that Ray and Ed had, thus leaving a huge void. You don't just replace that within a 5 year time period. I think Weddle has done that to an extent and that's why the defense has played much better thus far. 

I wonder what Elam would have looked like if he had that veteran presence of Weddle to coach him at all times like Ray and Ed did. Hell I think that Brooks might still be here and probably wouldn't have had as many mental issues if he was able to watch film with Weddle like so many young guys were able to do with Ed. I can still remember times when Ed would yell to CMac telling him to jump a route in the middle of the play. Ray and Ed studied so well that they knew a lot of plays before they happened and as a result they could put their teammates in great position to make plays. It's not really on a Ed Reed level but Weddle is doing a good deal of that and I'd say when healthy Jimmy is very comparable to CMac. Jimmy is allowing this secondary to play with so much flexibility. 

How much better would a Judon be if he was rushing opposite of a healthy Suggs? How much better would Z be if he was actually being used in the role he was drafted for and that's the McPhee rush specialist role, instead of being asked to be a 3 down player? CJ looks like he's back to the stud we thought we drafted, How much better would Timmy be if Ray Lewis was playing behind him.

I think what we are seeing is these young guys playing well in spurts but struggling with consistency and because we don't have that once in a generation talent, these guy that have that on field cheat code. 

Than on offense, it's all boils down to the oline play imo. Right now those guys just have to get healthy and once you do I think we'll see the offensive talent step up more. 

[PurpleCity5]

I guess what people want us to do is break the bank for some guys. I don't think that's what you do since our strategy has allowed us to be so flexible, but we've certainly have had successful FAs. 

[K-Dog]

"We need younger players that are hungry"

"We need older veteran leadership" 

 

"We need younger players that are hungry"

"We need older veteran leadership" 

 

"We need younger players that are hungry"

"We need older veteran leadership" 

Welcome to the Ravens message boards.

Not saying either is right or wrong. ( Both are right ) I just find it amusing. 

 

[Ravensfan23]

21 minutes ago, K-Dog said:

"We need younger players that are hungry"

"We need older veteran leadership" 

 

"We need younger players that are hungry"

"We need older veteran leadership" 

 

"We need younger players that are hungry"

"We need older veteran leadership" 

Welcome to the Ravens message boards.

Not saying either is right or wrong. ( Both are right ) I just find it amusing. 

 

It's not just here. It's basically every fan base of a losing team. When the team is losing everyone is looking for solutions and on the other hand many think they have the solution. 

[Tornado700]

Or......... maybe Joe can pick it up and start playing again like he used to.

BAM. The end.