Time to Play the Young Guys??

[Cillmatic]

3 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

Even though it's early it's sad to see Correa so far behind Judon.

Judon's far ahead of Smith too. I've been saying it all along, Matt Judon was a STEAL. Classic Ozzie player, sadly Harbaugh is unable to see that and would rather keep him inactive in favor of lesser players.

[Cawtious]

That is how you become the Browns.  No..  In all actuality, in regards to the OL, I think Lewis was thrust into the fire too soon.  Playing the young guys for experience, I get that........but just an out and out wholesale swap out like you're suggesting isn't wise at all. 

[jboy19]

2 hours ago, Cillmatic said:

Judon's far ahead of Smith too. I've been saying it all along, Matt Judon was a STEAL. Classic Ozzie player, sadly Harbaugh is unable to see that and would rather keep him inactive in favor of lesser players.

Doubt he stays inactive at this point. ZDS is on notice. 

[Edug27]

Tanking and playing some of the younger guys over the veterans who aren't producing..... Are 2 different things.

Play Young over Wright.

Consider Elam over Webb

Stick with Judon/Smith over Doom

 

 

 

[Ravensfan23]

16 hours ago, sflegend89 said:

I appreciate the positivity but at a certain point we have to be real about who we are. Record wise it's still early and the rest of the division has struggled. But looking at the product on the field I just don't think there is any hope of salvaging this season, that's not pessimism, that's just brutal objective honesty.

When I watch other teams it doesn't even look like we're playing the same game, particularly on offense, it's beyond pedestrian and predictable. I subscribe to the definition of insanity here, doing the same thing week in week out and expecting different results.

We already fired an OC, there's only so much change and adjusting that can occur at this point in a season. Getting healthy will help our cause but expecting new results after weeks of incompetence is a fruitless endeavor. I believe in this organization, it's a dark time at the moment and we have to stick it out for now.

I can understand that 100% but you still don't pack it in and say lets go get them next season. I subscribe to the notion that winning is a habit and so is quitting. Am I happy with what I see, no way. Do I expect anything different, nope, not until I actually see it. But do i want this team to just give up, NO. I'd much rather see this team fight their way through another season than to pack it in and try to get a higher draft pick. I agree we are in a dark time and the only way through it is to fight your way through it. 

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Joe is playing for his replacement. The worse he keeps playing, the higher QB pick we can get. 

Poor Qb play, and poor coaching = higher draft picks.

[usmccharles]

Just now, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

Joe is playing for his replacement. The worse he keeps playing, the higher QB pick we can get. 

Poor Qb play, and poor coaching = higher draft picks.

We will not use a high pick on a qb, makes no sense

[kjbmore]

9 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Don't think we've done a poor job of that in terms of personnel really... just had a ton of injuries at the same time.

I don't think Long is necessarily a better option as a backup LT over Lewis at this point. Plus, I'm not sure it matters. 

When you're missing at least 2-3 starters on the line each week, adding even a slightly better veteran backup isn't going to have the kind of major impact we are looking for.

yeah but if we had Long - Lewis stays at LG - maintain some continuity for the line and the player - maybe all this jumping back and forth is contributing to his penalties

[kjbmore]

up until this weeks game we've obviously been playing to win and harbs has been putting whichever players he felt gave us the best chance to win on the field

i dare say we rest up and hopefully come back healthy and have a crack at the next couple games - see if we can get some momentum and some W's on the board

but if we're still losing with guys like mclellan and doom starting over correa and judon, aiken and smith over moore, wright over anybody, hopefully elam comes back and we can give him a run over webb

why the hell did we draft willie henry at a position of strength then - if hes not even sniffing the field,

we have sooo many holes on defense right now, not in a position to be letting guys sit and develop in areas of strength

one pick after Wille Henry - 49ers pick up Rashard Robinson -  6'ft corner - pretty sure we can use one of those 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-rashard-robinson/

oh hang on had some issues in college, stuff it!!! time to draft players not choir boys if we want to start winning again

sick of reading all this crap about ben watson and keenan reynolds - holy rollers - follow a football team for football not for spiritual and moral guidance

get mad looking at this, what are we doing!!

[rmcjacket23]

12 hours ago, kjbmore said:

yeah but if we had Long - Lewis stays at LG - maintain some continuity for the line and the player - maybe all this jumping back and forth is contributing to his penalties

Yes but it also solves nothing in terms of finding LT depth. We pretty much now know that Lewis at least CAN play LT, and that he's clearly better than Hurst. So going forward, he's likely our "backup" LT. Signing a guy like Long to a one year deal only delays finding that out for a season. 

We're still going to need to protect Joe next year and probably 5+ years after that. Its not something where we only have to worry about OL depth this season because Joe is coming off injury. 

Plus, for what its worth, I don't think Lewis is going to be the starting LG after this season, and possibly might not even be the starting LG as early as next week, so the continuity thing probably isn't happening regardless.

[kjbmore]

11 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yes but it also solves nothing in terms of finding LT depth. We pretty much now know that Lewis at least CAN play LT, and that he's clearly better than Hurst. So going forward, he's likely our "backup" LT. Signing a guy like Long to a one year deal only delays finding that out for a season. 

We're still going to need to protect Joe next year and probably 5+ years after that. Its not something where we only have to worry about OL depth this season because Joe is coming off injury. 

Plus, for what its worth, I don't think Lewis is going to be the starting LG after this season, and possibly might not even be the starting LG as early as next week, so the continuity thing probably isn't happening regardless.

That's what the preseason is for - we knew after the preseason Lewis could play LT if needed.

We were 3 - 0 when Stanley went out 

In terms of finding depth vs winning games - at that point if we had a veteran we could have slid in - we realistically might be sitting atop the AFC North.

There's a time and place to test your depth, pretty much the general idea of this thread. the preseason or when you're mathematically done for the season is probably a good time -  at 3 - 0 coming off a horrible season, with the raiders and Mack coming to town - probably not so much

Anyhow we didn't sign him - we found out Lewis can play tackle and he's better than Hurst and while all that played out we lost 4 games - in a row.

The results speak for themselves, think we might have done things differently if we had our time again.

but at least we know Lewis can play LT - seriously smh

Edited October 26, 2016 by kjbmore

[rmcjacket23]

12 hours ago, kjbmore said:

That's what the preseason is for - we knew after the preseason Lewis could play LT if needed.

We were 3 - 0 when Stanley went out 

In terms of finding depth vs winning games - at that point if we had a veteran we could have slid in - we realistically might be sitting atop the AFC North.

There's a time and place to test your depth, pretty much the general idea of this thread. the preseason or when you're mathematically done for the season is probably a good time -  at 3 - 0 coming off a horrible season, with the raiders and Mack coming to town - probably not so much

Anyhow we didn't sign him - we found out Lewis can play tackle and he's better than Hurst and while all that played out we lost 4 games - in a row.

The results speak for themselves, think we might have done things differently if we had our time again.

but at least we know Lewis can play LT - seriously smh

1. This all seems to assume that Long is an upgrade over Lewis at LT to begin with, which I don't think is an assumption you can make at all. Certainly no shortage of rookies outplaying veterans in this league, and Jake Long certainly isn't the kind of player that teams are clamoring over for upper-tier play.

2. Stanley quite obviously isn't the only reason we've lost 4 straight. He's not even the only offensive lineman to miss significant time... what about our perennial All-Pro RG who's been out for a few weeks? Think that might have had something to do with it?

Among countless other injuries and production issues, from both veterans and rookies.

3. Not really sure what the preseason reference has to do with anything. You know what the preseason tells us often? The preseason tells us that a guy can play when he can't... that happens every year, and vice versa.

Remember, it was the preseason that told us that James Hurst would be a decent reserve LT. How'd that work out for us?

4. I guess I have to remind people that there will be football played beyond the 2016 season. Not every offseason decision made is designed to appease the fan base for four months (obviously).

Edited October 26, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[trevorsteadman]

Did anyone read the title of this thread and think isn't this one of the problems this team has? Talent is there on almost all levels but the depth is not. The last two games we proved we cannot win games without key veterans. 

[OUravensfan]

It is pathetic that a 37 year old is our best playmaker by a wide margin. No offense to SSS, I think he's a borderline HOF player. 

Btw, another delusional argument I have routinely with Bengal fans, SSS is far better than Chad Johnson, but of course they don't see it that way, quite possibly the most soft WR I've ever seen.

[ellicottraven]

I think so but we need to wait a couple of games to see if we can turn this season around. If we lose the next 2 games, its time to start playing all the rookies to see who deserves a spot next year and who deserves to go. This roster needs to be purged of ineffective players and next season should be where we go after high value signings. We need talent on this roster especially on the offensive side of the ball. 

Also, we need to draft a QB in 2018 to make sure there is a succession plan in place for Flacco. I don't know if Flacco is going to be a top tier player like Manning, Brady or Brees that can play well enough into their late 30s'.

Edited October 26, 2016 by ellicottraven

[rmcjacket23]

17 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

Did anyone read the title of this thread and think isn't this one of the problems this team has? Talent is there on almost all levels but the depth is not. The last two games we proved we cannot win games without key veterans. 

Sort of. I think we are seeing that talent in some areas we thought we had talent hasn't really showed itself yet.

I don't think our WR core is nearly as talented as we thought. Aiken, Perriman and Moore aren't developing as fast as we would like them to and are making some pretty significant mistakes. 

I think our offensive line is good not great. Could use an upgrade at Center for sure. 

Defensively, I don't think our secondary is all that great in terms of actual talent. I like Weddle and Jimmy, and Young has come along better than I think anybody expected, but he's mostly a slot guy. We don't have much depth there and I'm not sure if the Webb at safety experiment is going to work. Upgrades at safety and corner would be needed I think.

Completely unimpressed with our pass rushing core. Suggs and Dumervil are obviously old and injured, ZaDarius is struggling, Correa is giving us nothing. Judon is a nice piece, but if he's our best rusher (which at this point he is), that's a big problem.

Pass rusher, in theory, isn't a position where it takes a few years to develop, like say WR or a secondary player. Upgrades would be needed there.

I like our inside linebackers, and I like our defensive line. I think we are largely fine at TE and at RB. But we could certainly use better players at probably at least 4-5 different starting positions. 

[trevorsteadman]

42 minutes ago, OUravensfan said:

It is pathetic that a 37 year old is our best playmaker by a wide margin. No offense to SSS, I think he's a borderline HOF player. 

Btw, another delusional argument I have routinely with Bengal fans, SSS is far better than Chad Johnson, but of course they don't see it that way, quite possibly the most soft WR I've ever seen.

Steve Smith will go into the hall of fame. One of the most underrated players to ever play the game. His stats alone will get him there. 

But I agree it is pretty pathetic that Steve Smith is the only reliable player on our offense. Wallace is doing fine as well and doing just as good if not better than what I expected. Everybody else is performing way below as advertised this offseason.

[OUravensfan]

9 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

Steve Smith will go into the hall of fame. One of the most underrated players to ever play the game. His stats alone will get him there. 

But I agree it is pretty pathetic that Steve Smith is the only reliable player on our offense. Wallace is doing fine as well and doing just as good if not better than what I expected. Everybody else is performing way below as advertised this offseason.

Yea I agree that Wallace has served the role we got him here for respectfully. Very disappointed with Perriman and Moore so far, Aiken doesn't flash enough and our TEs haven't done much worth bragging about either. Dixon hasn't really had an opportunity to make a play, every time he catches the ball he gets hit immediately.

A lot of this is helped of course if we had a competent line that actually held long enough for people to get open.

6 Rushing yards.

6 rushing yards.

6 rushing yards 

[kjbmore]

8 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. This all seems to assume that Long is an upgrade over Lewis at LT to begin with, which I don't think is an assumption you can make at all. Certainly no shortage of rookies outplaying veterans in this league, and Jake Long certainly isn't the kind of player that teams are clamoring over for upper-tier play.

2. Stanley quite obviously isn't the only reason we've lost 4 straight. He's not even the only offensive lineman to miss significant time... what about our perennial All-Pro RG who's been out for a few weeks? Think that might have had something to do with it?

Among countless other injuries and production issues, from both veterans and rookies.

3. Not really sure what the preseason reference has to do with anything. You know what the preseason tells us often? The preseason tells us that a guy can play when he can't... that happens every year, and vice versa.

Remember, it was the preseason that told us that James Hurst would be a decent reserve LT. How'd that work out for us?

4. I guess I have to remind people that there will be football played beyond the 2016 season. Not every offseason decision made is designed to appease the fan base for four months (obviously).

1. Long may not necessarily be an upgrade over Lewis at LT but the combo of Long / Lewis on the left side would most likely be an upgrade over Hurst / Lewis, Lewis / Urschel.

2. Our line has been one of our biggest issues. We lost 3 one score games in a row - having said tandem on the left whilst we suffered other injuries on the right may have been enough to buy a split  second here or there, which in turn could have been the difference in such close games. 

3. The preseason reference is exactly what it is. There's a preseason for a reason. I would rather test my depth when it doesn't count and live with the assumptions - particularly in relation to a 'backup' than play said player in a live game to find out he's not suitable. 

4. Obviously there are short and long term implications with each signing.

My point is simply that of all the vets we signed this offseason other than Weddle ie - Powers, Watson, Hester - the one guy we brought in (obviously we had an interest) only to let walk away due to his refusal to sign a waiver for what - $1 mil or so (how much are we giving Powers, Watson, Hester? Could have actually helped us win games and yes I'm referring to right now, not next season, not in 5 years time. 

Would he have stunted somebody's growth or a chance to find depth - he's not starting over Stanley, Lewis is just a backup at the position, Hurst who cares, Urschel whatever 

at 3-0 when we are in every race or position we need to be as a team - im not fazed about depth at a position i just spent #6 pick on, how bout I just slide in 4 time pro bowler as his back up, rather than some bum who doesn't cut it and then I have to shuffle my line even more.

5. Its a balancing act between bringing guys in to supplement and bringing guys in that are impeding. 

6. the results speak for themselves - what's been one of our biggest issues - the line, the man could have helped right now, this season and I think you'd be on your own worrying about LT depth for next year if Long's filling in and we're sitting at 4-2, 5-1

[MTRavensFan]

9 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

Steve Smith will go into the hall of fame. One of the most underrated players to ever play the game. His stats alone will get him there. 

But I agree it is pretty pathetic that Steve Smith is the only reliable player on our offense. Wallace is doing fine as well and doing just as good if not better than what I expected. Everybody else is performing way below as advertised this offseason.

I would put Yanda in that conversation. His being out has hurt us more than we realize.

[kjbmore]

18 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

Did anyone read the title of this thread and think isn't this one of the problems this team has? Talent is there on almost all levels but the depth is not. The last two games we proved we cannot win games without key veterans. 

Our talent is ancient - why we're constantly calling on our depth. 

At full strength with our starting units out there - we managed to scrape by a few poor teams.

Our second options struggle because rather than have to slot in one or 2 - it's generally half the side all at once.

Only way to solve this is to get healthier and only way to solve that is to get younger