How do we fix the "Mental Mistakes" ?

[Desert]

I ask this question in all seriousness, As a fan it just seems like we repeat the same mistakes week after week. Please help me to understand how this gets fixed.

Is it me? but other games I watch don't seem to have the "Same" problems every week. I understand the nature of the game , and no one is perfect. Sure is frustrating.

 

Desert

[K-Dog]

I am not positive it is "the same mistakes week after week"  specifically at least.
The penalties were WAY down this week.  Still had some, still were stupid, still were self inflicted.  But penalties happen.  Every team, every game.  Harbaugh said something to the effect about there being two kinds of penalties.  Ones that are just stupid and can totally be avoided like "hands to the face" and ones that just seem to happen like a "false start or jumping off sides "

I mean is it not like Michael Oher getting twenty false starts in one game or Frank Walker getting a piggyback ride from every defender who ran faster than him ( which was pretty much every one of them ).

I am not a coach so I don't have an answer to your question.  It is a great question, but  I just think it is too broad to say ane one thing or even a few things happen to be the answer.
But maybe I am wrong, maybe it is, in fact as simple as players doing their jobs and playing like the professionals they are.
I will tell you this much, I am pretty confidant they DO KNOW, right from wrong and they DO KNOW what to do.

[Steve0x]

By yelling and screaming at them during practice. 

 

[The Raven]

Experience and discipline fix mental mistakes. Unfortunately, we have a lot of young players who lack experience and a lot of old players who lack discipline.

[Dfence4champs2052]

By shaking things up. 

[ALPHA]

I think we're working at it with the draft process, the guys we seem to draft now are disciplined and rarely have character flags.

[terps85]

I don't think mental mistakes are really the issue. Just not enough talent. 

[frozen joe flacco fan]

Mental mistakes are the result of a lack of discipline. Physical mistakes are excusable; mental errors cannot be tolerated. What happened on Sunday to Timmy Jernigan was a classic example of a mental mistake. In his youthful exuberance, he just tried to do too much. He explained it by saying the next time he'd fall on the ball to keep peace in the family. Can you imagine what Ray Lewis would have said to Timmy? It might go something like this: "But Timmy, there may not be a next time. You are extremely fortunate to be playing on an NFL team. Play each game like its your last. Play lie a Raven." The mental errors that Joe Flacco made on the two interceptions were equally bad, if not worse. John Harbaugh puts up with too much nonsense IMO. We need a no nonsense coach. I don't blame Timmy or Joe for their complacency or exuberance. I blame their position coaches and their head coach. That's how "we" fix the mental mistakes! 

[Tru11]

either have a no nonsense coach like belichick who benches you if you keep making the same mistakes or get team leaders who are not afraid to get in other players faces when they keep screwing up.

a requirement for either is that you at least dont make those same mistakes.
it also helps that you have a dedication to the game that exceeds most ( lead by example)

you need to be able to back it up.

[flynismo]

On 10/24/2016 at 1:37 AM, terps85 said:

I don't think mental mistakes are really the issue. Just not enough talent. 

Oh, they absolutely are the issue.

Perfect example:  That INT Flacco threw at Skrine on Sunday. His other INT was just a bad throw, it happens. But the first one was purely a mental mistake.

And there's quite literally dozens of other examples I can point out, but I'd rather not focus on that; I'm not in the mood to dwell on the negative at the moment, we've done plenty of that the last month.

[usmccharles]

I think the penalty issue has a lot to do with the amount of younger players, overall we normally have been ok with penalties other than getting them at the worst times during a game.  first to last:

2009 - 3rd

2010 - 21

2011 - 24

2012 - 2

2013 - 6

2014 - 14

2015 - 7

[Steve0x]

Well watch the video on " FULL METAL JACKET"  Every time Private Pyle screws up Sergeant Hartman gets on his case. And it was Sergeant Hartman who made Private Pyle from a clown into a man. Thats called motivation and discipline. 

Edited October 27, 2016 by Steve0x

[rmcjacket23]

39 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Well watch the video on " FULL METAL JACKET"  Every time Private Pyle screws up Sergeant Hartman gets on his case. And it was Sergeant Hartman who made Private Pyle from a clown into a man. Thats called motivation and discipline. 

Except here in reality, Private Pyle makes like 10 times more than Sergeant Hartman, and the employer is more likely to side with Private Pyle than Sergeant Hartman.

 

[Steve0x]

17 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Except here in reality, Private Pyle makes like 10 times more than Sergeant Hartman, and the employer is more likely to side with Private Pyle than Sergeant Hartman.

 

You don't see the point. Just ask USMC Charles what the Marines were like, He'll tell you.

[rmcjacket23]

10 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

You don't see the point. Just ask USMC Charles what the Marines were like, He'll tell you.

No I get the point. The point you don't see is that military motivation techniques are completely different than motivating professional football players.

If I were a Pro Football player who got paid millions to play, and I had a coach who screamed at me and berated me like a military drill instructor did for largely no reason, I would absolutely pummel the coach into the ground, and then I'd pull my wallet out and beat him over the head with it, because it would be so heavy with how much money is in it.

You're talking about two different worlds at this point.

Edited October 27, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[Steve0x]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

No I get the point. The point you don't see is that military motivation techniques are completely different than motivating professional football players.

If I were a Pro Football player who got paid millions to play, and I had a coach who screamed at me and berated me like a military drill instructor did for largely no reason, I would absolutely pummel the coach into the ground, and then I'd pull my wallet out and beat him over the head with it, because it would be so heavy with how much money is in it.

You're talking about two different worlds at this point.

Then you would be suspended and maybe arrested for assault and battery. 

[rmcjacket23]

30 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Then you would be suspended and maybe arrested for assault and battery. 

Maybe so. But it would put a permanent end to that kind of treatment towards me for pretty much the rest of my life.

So kind of worth it.

And that's ignoring the fact that the verbal abuse that I was subject to would also warrant some legal action against the person I beat the snot out of...

Again, this is why using military references is so unbelievably not-comparable to real life situations. There is virtually no work environment I know where the kind of discipline instituted in the military is acceptable in a typical workplace environment.

Edited October 27, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[Ravensfan23]

So people want Harbs to be no nonsense and bench players for making the same mental mistakes, yet when guys like Brooks don't get a legit chance to play because of his mental mistakes, most of the same people are quick to talk about Harbs' doghouse. I would love to see some of the fans who have all the answers actually run the team. 

Back on topic. I agree with those who it's the result of having a young team and also having guys playing out of position. Not only is Lewis a rookie playing LT, but he's a rookie who the Ravens wanted to play LG not tackle. So he's learning on the fly and you aren't really in a position to bench him for his mistakes. 

Offensively you have a young group that is learning not necessarily a new offense, but getting comfortable with that way it's called. So in most cases they aren't playing loose and free. They may be thinking about their assignments instead of just knowing what they have to do and doing it. That fraction of a second that you're not mentally engaged can lead to poor hand placement, false starts, allowing a defender to get a jump on you and now you have to hold him. New guys playing on ST contributes to this as well. 

I also think that once you have a start to rack up a lot of penalties that the refs may not allow some small things go where they may usually do so. If you are known as a undisciplined team, it gives refs reason to throw a flag i think. 

[Steve0x]

Penalties are mental mistakes to. You cant help it. You try to follow the rules.But sometimes you cant follow the rules. Its so hard to follow the rules when you're playing in competition. Every sport you cant help not breaking the rules. Like in Basketball you cant help it by not fouling. in Hockey you cant help it when you hook or slash your opponment. In football you cant help it if you hold the defensive lineman from getting to your QB. Its not that simple to follow the rules in sports.   

[The Raven]

1 hour ago, Steve0x said:

Penalties are mental mistakes to. You cant help it. You try to follow the rules.But sometimes you cant follow the rules. Its so hard to follow the rules when you're playing in competition. Every sport you cant help not breaking the rules. Like in Basketball you cant help it by not fouling. in Hockey you cant help it when you hook or slash your opponment. In football you cant help it if you hold the defensive lineman from getting to your QB. Its not that simple to follow the rules in sports.   

No, it's simple. Don't flipping hold.

Edited October 28, 2016 by The Raven

[Steve0x]

1 hour ago, The Raven said:

No, it's simple. Don't flipping hold.

Why don't you play offensive lineman and come back and tell us how simple it is.

 

[Inqui]

25 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Why don't you play offensive lineman and come back and tell us how simple it is.

 

 

[waits for it]

Edited October 28, 2016 by Inqui

[allblackraven]

1 hour ago, Steve0x said:

Why don't you play offensive lineman and come back and tell us how simple it is.

 

Oh man...

[Maryland]

1 hour ago, Steve0x said:

Why don't you play offensive lineman and come back and tell us how simple it is.

 

Hah! Gotteem.

[K-Dog]

Oh good grief . 

[Tank 92]

I know some had a problem with him being criticized publicly, but many said they didn't blame Jernigan for what they described as "trying to make a play".  While Harbaugh may have been wrong in doing it at the podium, it should be obvious he was perfectly correct for taking him to the wood shed.   He was fed up with the dumb, undisciplined football his team was playing. 

99% of the penalties are errors in execution. If you're supposed to be on the line, get set on the line. If you are blocking, do your job without holding(or at least without the ref seeing you.haha). Don't set yourself up in the neutral zone.(duh). Don't jump offsides anticipating the snap.  etc.,etc.etc..

Play smart and play disciplined. 

Edited October 28, 2016 by Tank 92

[rmcjacket23]

35 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

I know some had a problem with him being criticized publicly, but many said they didn't blame Jernigan for what they described as "trying to make a play".  While Harbaugh may have been wrong in doing it at the podium, it should be obvious he was perfectly correct for taking him to the wood shed.   He was fed up with the dumb, undisciplined football his team was playing. 

99% of the penalties are errors in execution. If you're supposed to be on the line, get set on the line. If you are blocking, do your job without holding(or at least without the ref seeing you.haha). Don't set yourself up in the neutral zone.(duh). Don't jump offsides anticipating the snap.  etc.,etc.etc..

Play smart and play disciplined. 

Yeah and there's a difference between what Jernigan did and what Mosley did.

I think Mosley was "trying to make a play". He's trying to score a TD for an offense that clearly wasn't going to be doing much on their own, and he just botched it. But he had a reasonable chance to score.

Jernigan is basically in his own endzone. He's not running 100 full yards for a TD. At best, he's gaining maybe 5-10 yards, and while the turnover saves points, we are still pinned deep. Was a good defensive play, but now he knows just to go down.

[Ravensfan23]

38 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yeah and there's a difference between what Jernigan did and what Mosley did.

I think Mosley was "trying to make a play". He's trying to score a TD for an offense that clearly wasn't going to be doing much on their own, and he just botched it. But he had a reasonable chance to score.

Jernigan is basically in his own endzone. He's not running 100 full yards for a TD. At best, he's gaining maybe 5-10 yards, and while the turnover saves points, we are still pinned deep. Was a good defensive play, but now he knows just to go down.

Huge TImmy fan and not just because I'm a huge FSU fan. I think Timmy will be a stud in the NFL and once he realizes it....game over. However Timmy needs to grow up, not as a man but as a football player. Sometimes he allows his passion and love for the game to get the better of him and react to something without thinking. First let me say that Timmy is a very smart player and often times took over games at FSU from the DT position by placing teammates in the right position. So I believe his football IQ is really high, however sometimes it doesn't show up. You'll see Timmy deliver a late him now and than, you'll see him deliver a post whistle elbow just to get in the Olineman's head. You'll see him getting inside QBs head like he did Brady his rookie year and honestly there's not problem with all that. Timmy is the definition of a dog and 90% of the time you love it and you hope that he clean up that 10%

Now to that play. I have no issue with what Timmy did up to the last seconds of that play. I have no problem with a defender trying to make a play to help put your team in a better position. However once you saw that it wasn't clear room to run down that side line you have to get down. He tried to juke Marshall and that's where the "boneheaded" part of the play comes from. There was nothing there and I don't care how much of a athlete you were in high school, you aren't a ball carrier and you have to know when enough is enough. You tried but nothing was there, just get down. 

[trevorsteadman]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yeah and there's a difference between what Jernigan did and what Mosley did.

I think Mosley was "trying to make a play". He's trying to score a TD for an offense that clearly wasn't going to be doing much on their own, and he just botched it. But he had a reasonable chance to score.

Jernigan is basically in his own endzone. He's not running 100 full yards for a TD. At best, he's gaining maybe 5-10 yards, and while the turnover saves points, we are still pinned deep. Was a good defensive play, but now he knows just to go down.

To be honest though you could tell the offense wasn't going to get in the endzone anyway. I think there was a higher chance of him scoring on that play than our offense. Hindsight is 20/20 and in most situations like that you go down. But with how bad the offense looks I don't blame Jernigan one bit.

[VermontRaven]

9 hours ago, Steve0x said:

Why don't you play offensive lineman and come back and tell us how simple it is.

 

Great point.  Especially when you are a rookie 4th round pick, who was drafted to be a guard, that is forced to play the toughest position on the line, LT.  I admit I get frustrated by penalties too...For example, the one by Lewis that wiped out West's big run was huge, but those things are going to happen when you have several starters out and people playing out of their normal positions.