The good, the bad, really bad and ugly week 7 vs Jets vent

[jazz1988]

10 hours ago, Edgar said:

Great idea making Judon inactive for a few weeks this season. Hopefully he has improved enough on special teams that he can dress on Sundays.

I mean, pressuring the QB is cool and all but,....

Judon got inactive in favor for Doom. i know Doom was dealing with his foot injury  but it wasn't like The Ravens were asking him play every down either.  It wasn't a dumb decision at all to keep Judon in active because in all reality at the time without knowing Doom would have a  set back having him coming at the quarterback on obvious passing downs is better than Judon .  Even before Judon was place on the inactive list Ravens fans were saying the pass rush needs to get better.

[ravensdfan]

32 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

Did you ever think there's a reason we ALL SUCK?  The CBA does not allow these guys to do what they need to for fear of it being "too much on the player"...  then we see injuries and lack of ability all over the place.  We can't have too many padded practices folks......  Somebody might exert too much.  The NFL is ruining our game.

I agree with all that as welll to a point. I think limiting those padded practices does hurt the players/coaches in proper prep time etc however, that would be the scapegoat only if that were true of every team in the NFL and it isn't.  We're trying to use an old school system in an NFL that has moved on. Even some fans still call for it - and in reality, it no longer is effective due to rule changes, faster and more athletic players, a lot of different reasons.

I do think our fear/inability/ bad judgement (whatever the reason) in not obtaining talented coordinators above mediocre is an issue. Harbs has no background to speak of in either offense or defense and he relies more heavily on the knowledge and decision making of his coordinators. Ours have been lackluster or downright bad in his entire tenure here. That needs to change if we want to compete.

I know it seems hypocritical to call for new coordinators & then say we need more consitency offensively but both are true. We can't have the revolving door for veteran WRs while not retaining any WR at all. It is absurd to believe that Flacco & the WRs are going to click and have chemistry when we change them every single season. If our scouts are crap at evaluating WR talent (which after this many years seems to be the case) then get someone in here who is good at it and let's build a WR core that has some consistency. That goes for TEs as well.

And when exactly do we do something about our dismal O line? I mean, our O line overperformed in our SB run so it has been pretty bad for a long time.

I love Ozzie and he will remain one of the best GMs around forever but, with our current drafts I do have to wonder if it just isn't there anymore. It happens to the best.

Edited October 24, 2016 by ravensdfan

[CorvusMagnus]

The irony is that other then winning, player development is my passion when watching the NFL. I'm almost looking forward to the season becoming a forgone conclusion because we will see our rookies get piles of playing time and hopefully develop more quickly as a result.

At the end of the day we are a team that has a done a good job at drafting quality complimentary players (especially in specific positions like defensive line) with high picks for years to supplement truly great picks we made years ago (IMHO Suggs and Yanda are the last truly league leading player drafted by the Ravens). At this point we can limp no further, and it is going to take a couple of high draft picks an a little luck to get us back on our feet again.

Nowhere is that more evident then OLB where we are asking journeymen (McLelllan, Smith) and grass green rookies (Correa, Judon) to do the work of a future HOF (Suggs) and a top dollar veteran (Dumerville). The thing about rookie OLB is that you can get production as long as you keep things simple/situational, unfortunately our ability to do that was predicated by Suggs ability to do everything all the time. I honestly think a lot of the run defense issues in the last game were the rookies pinning their ears back and making mistakes on playing the run.

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

I agree with all that as welll to a point. I think limiting those padded practices does hurt the players/coaches in proper prep time etc however, that would be the scapegoat only if that were true of every team in the NFL and it isn't.  We're trying to use an old school system in an NFL that has moved on. Even some fans still call for it - and in reality, it no longer is effective due to rule changes, faster and more athletic players, a lot of different reasons.

I do think our fear/inability/ bad judgement (whatever the reason) in not obtaining talented coordinators above mediocre is an issue. Harbs has no background to speak of in either offense or defense and he relies more heavily on the knowledge and decision making of his coordinators. Ours have been lackluster or downright bad in his entire tenure here. That needs to change if we want to compete.

I know it seems hypocritical to call for new coordinators & then say we need more consitency offensively but both are true. We can't have the revolving door for veteran WRs while not retaining any WR at all. It is absurd to believe that Flacco & the WRs are going to click and have chemistry when we change them every single season. If our scouts are crap at evaluating WR talent (which after this many years seems to be the case) then get someone in here who is good at it and let's build a WR core that has some consistency. That goes for TEs as well.

And when exactly do we do something about our dismal O line? I mean, our O line overperformed in our SB run so it has been pretty bad for a long time.

In terms of the Oline, I'll say that the ATTEMPT to do something has been there. We've drafted five offensive lineman since Joe get his big deal in 2013. 

Three of them are starting for us when healthy. Also excludes the trade we made for Monroe that clearly didn't work out.

We haven't ignored the area by any stretch (like we have with positions like WR in the past) but I suppose the execution of those attempts haven't worked out.

The offensive line issues, for me, come down to a combination of injury concerns occurring all at the same time, and a lack of experience. The lack of experience thing is frankly just something we have to work through... there's not much of a remedy for that.

[ravensdfan]

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

In terms of the Oline, I'll say that the ATTEMPT to do something has been there. We've drafted five offensive lineman since Joe get his big deal in 2013. 

Three of them are starting for us when healthy. Also excludes the trade we made for Monroe that clearly didn't work out.

We haven't ignored the area by any stretch (like we have with positions like WR in the past) but I suppose the execution of those attempts haven't worked out.

The offensive line issues, for me, come down to a combination of injury concerns occurring all at the same time, and a lack of experience. The lack of experience thing is frankly just something we have to work through... there's not much of a remedy for that.

Yeah but we took basically the same approach to the O line. I'm not of a mind to look it up but it feels like we've played the revolving door game with that as well. A really good O line requires guys to work together and gel as well. I guess to me it seems we lack any scouting talent when it comes to offensive players in general and that is an issue and what leads to us cutting guys and playing the revolving door game with vets. That isn't a recipe for success for your offense and since the new NFL is built for offensive success, leads to failure overall.

Shoot now that I think about it, we've been taking the revolving door, bring in old vets approach to everything the last few years. We've not been having really good drafts recently.

Edited October 24, 2016 by ravensdfan

[GrimCoconut]

2 hours ago, The Mom Gene said:

I've watched him time and time again get pushed around, and back into Joe.  And yet fans wonder why the guy won't step up into the pocket?  What Pocket!

 

This is true but there are times when Joe can step up into the pocket but he doesn't. 

[terps85]

13 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

This is true but there are times when Joe can step up into the pocket but he doesn't. 

Yeah it seems like he is creating pressure in his head at times. Underthrew a deep ball yesterday (to Wallace I think) because he unnecessarily fell backwards. 

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, terps85 said:

Yeah it seems like he is creating pressure in his head at times. Underthrew a deep ball yesterday (to Wallace I think) because he unnecessarily fell backwards. 

His mechanics have been way off this year.  There were times last year where he was throwing off of his back foot, but those times have been multiplied by 1000 this year.  He's definitely creating pressure in his head, as you said.  He's so tentative in the pocket.  The protection isn't good but Joe still has to be a lot better than he's been.

[Rav'n Maniac]

1 minute ago, terps85 said:

Yeah it seems like he is creating pressure in his head at times. Underthrew a deep ball yesterday (to Wallace I think) because he unnecessarily fell backwards. 

His footwork at present is the worse I've seen from him. Maybe it is the result of his injury, maybe not. He's certainly not planting and throwing off his back foot more often than not.

[Tank 92]

5 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

His footwork at present is the worse I've seen from him. Maybe it is the result of his injury, maybe not. He's certainly not planting and throwing off his back foot more often than not.

Not hard to figure out. Coming off the knee and getting pounded for weeks has gotten into his head. Even if there is room there he's anticipating the hit. Guessing it will get better with time and better O line play. 

[thisme007]

11 hours ago, AsianRice said:

and replace you I expect.....

 If that what it take for our team to win games and get to the playoffs, I am cool with that..

[Moderator 3]

2 hours ago, The Mom Gene said:

Did you ever think there's a reason we ALL SUCK?  The CBA does not allow these guys to do what they need to for fear of it being "too much on the player"...  then we see injuries and lack of ability all over the place.  We can't have too many padded practices folks......  Somebody might exert too much.  The NFL is ruining our game.

Quoted for truth.  The "product" is sucking all over the NFL.  Does anyone even watch other games?  Players are not coming out of college ready for the NFL but limited practices prevent development.  There are very few "stars" left and that number will continue to decrease.  

[GrimCoconut]

9 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

Quoted for truth.  The "product" is sucking all over the NFL.  Does anyone even watch other games?  Players are not coming out of college ready for the NFL but limited practices prevent development.  There are very few "stars" left and that number will continue to decrease.  

I've watched a lot of NFL games this year compared to other years and I honestly think the entire league looks worse. Something is seriously wrong in the NFL right now. Even our entire division is average and we used to hang our hat on the toughest division. That's not an easy argument to make anymore

[gtalk12]

Man our offensive line really hurt us on that big play by West

[Drew P]

12 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

Quoted for truth.  The "product" is sucking all over the NFL.  Does anyone even watch other games?  Players are not coming out of college ready for the NFL but limited practices prevent development.  There are very few "stars" left and that number will continue to decrease.  

Other games? I can hardly watch the Ravens

[gtalk12]

13 minutes ago, Drew P said:

Other games? I can hardly watch the Ravens

 

over the last couple of weeks, I don't know...there is something missing

[jazz1988]

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

His mechanics have been way off this year.  There were times last year where he was throwing off of his back foot, but those times have been multiplied by 1000 this year.  He's definitely creating pressure in his head, as you said.  He's so tentative in the pocket.  The protection isn't good but Joe still has to be a lot better than he's been.

Man we need Jim Zorn back lol. I don't know what's wrong with Joe Flacco and I expected him to look so much better this season . Maybe he just needs this bye week to think through things and figure it all out.

[chunkywill25]

59 minutes ago, gtalk12 said:

Man our offensive line really hurt us on that big play by West

He never makes that big gain without that illegal block anyway

[jboy19]

The league is general is suffering from weak products. That's why I think their ratings are hurting. Aside from the Cowboys and Raiders who have made huge investments, it seems like most OLs are struggling that I've seen.

[OUravensfan]

11 minutes ago, chunkywill25 said:

He never makes that big gain without that illegal block anyway

I couldn't even get mad about the call, it clearly sprung the run. However, it's that typical play Pittsburgh would get a no call with, that I can get mad about.  

see 2005 Super Bowl, 2010 Divisional game flop on Webb punt return, 2015 Bell TD run in loss and countless others.

[codizzle]

8 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

The league is general is suffering from weak products. That's why I think their ratings are hurting. Aside from the Cowboys and Raiders who have made huge investments, it seems like most OLs are struggling that I've seen.

Yea the league overall is producing a pretty ugly game. 

[Moderator 3]

26 minutes ago, codizzle said:

Yea the league overall is producing a pretty ugly game. 

Truth.  As badly as we suck, we're actually middle of the pack.  Sad.  Limited practices are killing the product. How are players supposed to get better if they can't work on their craft?  Visualization ain't cutting it.

[gtalk12]

55 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

Man we need Jim Zorn back lol. I don't know what's wrong with Joe Flacco and I expected him to look so much better this season . Maybe he just needs this bye week to think through things and figure it all out.

why did we let him go to begin with?

[rmcjacket23]

49 minutes ago, chunkywill25 said:

He never makes that big gain without that illegal block anyway

Depends. If West sheds the Dlineman who Lewis was holding, its a big play. Maybe not a 40+ yard run because he will be slowed down by the defender regardless, but certainly getting to the second level there. 

Basically if he breaks one tackle, you're probably looking at least at a 5-10 yard gain instead of a 10 yard loss from the penalty, so its a net 15-20 yard gain just by breaking one tackle at initial contact.

[jazz1988]

9 minutes ago, gtalk12 said:

why did we let him go to begin with?

To my understanding he wasn't working well with Cam Cameron at the time.

[FerrariFan87]

Good: Nothing.

Bad: Defensive speed; O-line; Flacco; Running Game

Ugly: See Bad.

[allblackraven]

21 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

Truth.  As badly as we suck, we're actually middle of the pack.  Sad.  Limited practices are killing the product. How are players supposed to get better if they can't work on their craft?  Visualization ain't cutting it.

To add to that misery, this week we're only allowed practices through Wednesday and that's it. It doesn't make sense whatsoever. They are paid bazillions to produce the crap product and are not supposed to work to get better (not only Ravens, it's across the league)? Is this part of the bargaining agreement or the NFL imposed rule under pretence of increased player safety?

[Tru11]

2 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

To add to that misery, this week we're only allowed practices through Wednesday and that's it. It doesn't make sense whatsoever. They are paid bazillions to produce the crap product and are not supposed to work to get better (not only Ravens, it's across the league)? Is this part of the bargaining agreement or the NFL imposed rule under pretence of increased player safety?

the players negotiated for these things.

most of these things where part of their demands and ofcourse also the league reaction to being sued.

cant really blame the players though.

 

 

[wizard1]

4 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

I agree with all that as welll to a point. I think limiting those padded practices does hurt the players/coaches in proper prep time etc however, that would be the scapegoat only if that were true of every team in the NFL and it isn't.  We're trying to use an old school system in an NFL that has moved on. Even some fans still call for it - and in reality, it no longer is effective due to rule changes, faster and more athletic players, a lot of different reasons.

I do think our fear/inability/ bad judgement (whatever the reason) in not obtaining talented coordinators above mediocre is an issue. Harbs has no background to speak of in either offense or defense and he relies more heavily on the knowledge and decision making of his coordinators. Ours have been lackluster or downright bad in his entire tenure here. That needs to change if we want to compete.

I know it seems hypocritical to call for new coordinators & then say we need more consitency offensively but both are true. We can't have the revolving door for veteran WRs while not retaining any WR at all. It is absurd to believe that Flacco & the WRs are going to click and have chemistry when we change them every single season. If our scouts are crap at evaluating WR talent (which after this many years seems to be the case) then get someone in here who is good at it and let's build a WR core that has some consistency. That goes for TEs as well.

And when exactly do we do something about our dismal O line? I mean, our O line overperformed in our SB run so it has been pretty bad for a long time.

I love Ozzie and he will remain one of the best GMs around forever but, with our current drafts I do have to wonder if it just isn't there anymore. It happens to the best.

It's good to read that some are starting to stand up and say enough is enough. Ozzie's "plug up the hole with a quick fix" doesn't work anymore. We are a football team with little talent, no depth and no identity. There is no ferocity, no leaders, no Pro Bowlers except for Justin Tucker. The coaching staff is out of touch with the new NFL style of play. We cannot finesse anyone, we do not intimidate anyone and we are no longer the Baltimore Bullies.

Playing like a Raven is a saying for history. Obviously it means nothing to our current roster. We are a broken team. When it's broken you have to tear it down and start all over again from scratch. We have the foundation so let's build a new house.

[Edgar]

3 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I've watched a lot of NFL games this year compared to other years and I honestly think the entire league looks worse. Something is seriously wrong in the NFL right now. Even our entire division is average and we used to hang our hat on the toughest division. That's not an easy argument to make anymore

I began noticing it last year but chalked it up to the Ravens struggles (my diminishing interest).

The quarterback play league wide is on the whole and by comparison, poor. Many games are simply a struggle to see who stinks the least and are unwatchable.

The cutsey and pandering way that the NFL promotes itself has really grown both tiresome and insulting. I dare anyone to watch the NFL network for five minutes (outside of, " path to the draft"), and not feel it a colossal waste of time. 

draft season has become more intriguing to me than the games.