The good, the bad, really bad and ugly week 7 vs Jets vent

[jimmypowder]

Just now, Virginia 55 said:

Geno would have killed us too. 

 O I disagree . We matched up better against Geno 

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, Florida Ravens Fan said:

We have had the same issues plaguing us for several years..penalties, tackling, getting separation, clock management, and the list goes on. We are the second most penalized team this year. Where is the structure and discipline Harbs preaches soo much about?? I understand the players play (Duuhhhhh) but when the same issues keep popping up game after game then that is definitely on the coaching. If they are practicing fundamentals in practice it is really hard to believe it doesn't translate on the field. Or do we have a squad of bunch of idiots........ If employees keep underperforming it is definitely on the Boss to get better employees or get fired.

In general, depending on the type of penalties, its mostly on the players. There's no coaches in the league that are coaching players to do some of the dumb things we are doing.

Heck Suggs alone has jumped offsides like 2-3 times this year. There's no coach telling him to do that. That's all on him.

In theory, the accountability aspect falls on the coaches. Repetitive or constant dumb penalties would typically yield discipline, such as benching or release. But then again, a lot of them are coming from key veterans, and if we bench them, we know the depth behind them isn't any good.

So we would be trading accountability and "discipline" for weaker on-field performance, which fans naturally won't be happy about either. So damned if you do and damned if you don't.

In short, personal player accountability is the only way that gets fixed.

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, jimmypowder said:

Time for Ozzie to retire after some horrible drafts over several years , Harbaugh to get fired after dumb decisions that cost us two games this year and Flacco's contract to be renegotiated to allow us better players in free agency . 

If Flacco won't do that , release him and start over . I never thought I would say that !! Ever . 

And nobody that understands the salary cap should say it either, because its not happening and it causes bigger problems than solutions.

Really no point in discussing dumping Flacco. Its never been a realistic notion. This ain't Madden where we can just cut and trade players with no consequences.

And the consequences are far, far, far greater than any of the fans asking for it are willing to handle. They can't even handle a couple losing seasons without throwing temper tantrums... I can't even fathom what kind of hissy fits we would see with like a half decade or more of Cleveland Browns-level play. We aren't even there yet.

[Cawtious]

7 minutes ago, aarondmonroe said:

Which player has more peneties?

Jensen #66 or A. Lewis #72.

 

These are 2 players that a killing the ravens offense.

You need to go back and watch some film.

 

[Florida Ravens Fan]

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

In general, depending on the type of penalties, its mostly on the players. There's no coaches in the league that are coaching players to do some of the dumb things we are doing.

Heck Suggs alone has jumped offsides like 2-3 times this year. There's no coach telling him to do that. That's all on him.

In theory, the accountability aspect falls on the coaches. Repetitive or constant dumb penalties would typically yield discipline, such as benching or release. But then again, a lot of them are coming from key veterans, and if we bench them, we know the depth behind them isn't any good.

So we would be trading accountability and "discipline" for weaker on-field performance, which fans naturally won't be happy about either. So damned if you do and damned if you don't.

In short, personal player accountability is the only way that gets fixed.

Of course the coaches don't coach them to do those stupid penalties and it's the players fault. But that's the issue it has been going on for several years maybe they need to start benching some of those vets and make it a point. They are committing stupid penalties with no consequence? So how are they going to correct it? 

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, Florida Ravens Fan said:

Of course the coaches don't coach them to do those stupid penalties and it's the players fault. But that's the issue it has been going on for several years maybe they need to start benching some of those vets and make it a point. They are committing stupid penalties with no consequence? So how are they going to correct it? 

Then play that out. Bench Suggs for Correa. And then Correa sucks and does nothing.

Would you as a fan stand behind Harbaugh's decision to do that and be content with it? Would you as a fan be content with having an inferior player put out there because a veteran makes penalty mistakes?

See this is the part where fans lose me. They say they want this, but I think if it were to actually happen, they would backpedal so fast they would trip over themselves. I think they'd be begging for the benching to be over within a quarter.

[Cawtious]

15 minutes ago, aarondmonroe said:

Which player has more peneties?

Jensen #66 or A. Lewis #72.

 

These are 2 players that a killing the ravens offense.

Jensen has 0 for the last two games, and a TD saving tackle on the pick today.  In the top 5 on PFF for the team last two weeks also.,

[Florida Ravens Fan]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Then play that out. Bench Suggs for Correa. And then Correa sucks and does nothing.

Would you as a fan stand behind Harbaugh's decision to do that and be content with it? Would you as a fan be content with having an inferior player put out there because a veteran makes penalty mistakes?

See this is the part where fans lose me. They say they want this, but I think if it were to actually happen, they would backpedal so fast they would trip over themselves. I think they'd be begging for the benching to be over within a quarter.

Honestly...yeah I would be ok with it you know why? Because those stupid penalties are causing us to lose games. If it's going to help correct the issue then why not.. So just keep letting do stupid penalties with no consequence?? What would you do as a coach to help correct this? Curious.....

[aarondmonroe]

9 minutes ago, Cawtious said:

You need to go back and watch some film.

 

A. Lewis most penilize offensive lineman on the Ravens with 4.

[aarondmonroe]

Just now, aarondmonroe said:

A. Lewis most penilize offensive lineman on the Ravens with 4.

All critical that brought back big plays.

[52liveforever]

I think Joe shoulders most of this loss. I just don't understand how he squanders so many chances. The defense is the only reason we are in games so far this year. The only bright side to these three and outs is I get to watch a good Ravens defense. Even with pivotal players out.

[aarondmonroe]

5 minutes ago, Cawtious said:

Jensen has 0 for the last two games, and a TD saving tackle on the pick today.  In the top 5 on PFF for the team last two weeks also.,

True but he hs too many missed assignments and blocks.  He,s the weak link.

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, Florida Ravens Fan said:

Honestly...yeah I would be ok with it you know why? Because those stupid penalties are causing us to lose games. If it's going to help correct the issue then why not.. So just keep letting do stupid penalties with no consequence?? What would you do as a coach to help correct this? Curious.....

Well poor on-field performance excluding penalties is also causing us to lose games, and some of that is coming from our depth.

Me, I'd probably just yell a lot and make sure that the veterans understand that they are hurting the team by doing these things.

At the end of the day, these aren't kids. They're grown adults who have to live with their own decisions. Poor performance + bad penalties + team losing generally = not a lot of teams interested in your services when your contract comes up for discussion. That's the difference in millions of dollars.

In theory, I suppose you could institute some sort of internal fine program and start hitting players in their wallets (generally the only thing they care about), but I'm not sure how realistic that is.

My point being there's a finite amount of options that don't result in hurting the team equally or worse when it comes to discipline.

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, aarondmonroe said:

A. Lewis most penilize offensive lineman on the Ravens with 4.

He's also playing a position he shouldn't be playing...

[Moderator 3]

Just now, aarondmonroe said:

True but he hs too many missed assignments and blocks.  He,s the weak link.

No, Zuttah is.  For heaven's sake, he tripped his QB TWICE today.

[52liveforever]

6 minutes ago, Florida Ravens Fan said:

Honestly...yeah I would be ok with it you know why? Because those stupid penalties are causing us to lose games. If it's going to help correct the issue then why not.. So just keep letting do stupid penalties with no consequence?? What would you do as a coach to help correct this? Curious.....

Penalties isn't why we are losing. Our offense is just plain terrible 

[RayRayRaven]

2 minutes ago, 52liveforever said:

Penalties isn't why we are losing. Our offense is just plain terrible 

its bad cuz the oline has been spotty we just are not a top lvl team and wont be this year

[jdynamite]

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

To an extent.  Sometimes you can try to coach a player up as much as you want, but the player has to respond to that coaching.  It's when you see a pattern of tools over a period of time that you have to start look at coaching.  No one is absolved from blame, but it's not always a coaching issue like many people make it out to be.

Herm Edwards talked about this the other day and he said college football has become such different  game from the pros that many coaches he talk too now say they are forced to teach these guys the fundamentals. Then he went down the various positions talked about how so many top O-linemen come from systems where they never put they had on the ground get to the NFL have to learn and be taught how to come off the ball from a 3 point stance.  He talked about how most college pass rushers get by on talent and atheleticism and only a few college programs teach them the nuisances. 

 

Players have to do their part put in extra time etc to perfect their craft, show signs of improvement, work on new moves etc.. tackling and discipline is across the board. 

But the basics, discipline, fundamental tackling, bullrush, rip, spin, club moves, understanding pad levels for leverage, route tree concepts are improved with solid coaching.  Jensen for instance I've literally seen this guy reach for a defender to block and fall ( I was high school olineman and not a good one and I learned that ) 

You have a team like us can't develop any WRs, guys never even improve as route runners regardless if they are high or low draft picks. Then you have the steelers developing so many WRs. 

[aarondmonroe]

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

He's also playing a position he shouldn't be playing...

No excuse. If you list flexability on your resume.  You can,t use that.

[Florida Ravens Fan]

2 minutes ago, 52liveforever said:

Penalties isn't why we are losing. Our offense is just plain terrible 

Penalties are a BIG reason why we are losing. A  hold negated a 50 something yarder run by West that would of been a TD. Past several games we had good momentum with big chunk yardage only to come back because a stupid penalty. When your O sucks and you add penalties on top you will never win. 

[aarondmonroe]

Just now, aarondmonroe said:

No excuse. If you list flexability on your resume.  You can,t use that.

Im a die heart Raven fan like yourself.  A win and a good run game would hide some of the defenecies on that offensive line.

[aarondmonroe]

2 minutes ago, Florida Ravens Fan said:

Penalties are a BIG reason why we are losing. A  hold negated a 50 something yarder run by West that would of been a TD. Past several games we had good momentum with big chunk yardage only to come back because a stupid penalty. When your O sucks and you add penalties on top you will never win. 

If they run the ball more then you don't ask as much from these young players that are having issues.

[52liveforever]

3 minutes ago, RayRayRaven said:

its bad cuz the oline has been spotty we just are not a top lvl team and wont be this year

Joe is playing bad even when he has time. Bad throws and bad decisions. I'm a Joe supporter, but the offense as a whole is playing bad. I would give one exception and that is mike Wallace.

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, aarondmonroe said:

No excuse. If you list flexability on your resume.  You can,t use that.

LOL flexibility doesn't automatically negate you from having to commit penalties. Just one of many traits a good offensive lineman needs.

Its too many penalties certainly, but not completely unexpected in my eyes. 

[mmcclend]

I must say week in a week out I find myself proud of this defense. Yes they give up a big play here and there but when a player goes down I don't see TOO much of a drop off. They still are solid and keep us in every game. The offense and coaches treat them like crap every game and that's the most frustrating part for me. I see teams overcome a slew of injuries every week. Our own defense overcomes injuries and can hold its own. And then our offense just ruins it and harbs blames defensive players for trying to overcompensate and score for a trash offense. If we are down by more than a TD the game feels like it's over.

[Florida Ravens Fan]

1 minute ago, aarondmonroe said:

Im a die heart Raven fan like yourself.  A win and a good run game would hide some of the defenecies on that offensive line.

Lmbo having  a conversation with yourself??

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, aarondmonroe said:

If they run the ball more then you don't ask as much from these young players that are having issues.

Didn't matter today. They weren't going to run the ball well, and some of the young players that are having issues are guys who are responsible for that run game.

[aarondmonroe]

1 minute ago, aarondmonroe said:

If they run the ball more then you don't ask as much from these young players that are having issues.

I'm a 60/40 run guy.  But be creative.

[52liveforever]

6 minutes ago, Florida Ravens Fan said:

Penalties are a BIG reason why we are losing. A  hold negated a 50 something yarder run by West that would of been a TD. Past several games we had good momentum with big chunk yardage only to come back because a stupid penalty. When your O sucks and you add penalties on top you will never win. 

I wouldn't bet anything out of my wallet that the offense would have finished with a TD on that west run. 

 

You know your offense sucks when your 300 pound defensive tackle feels like he's got to make a big play with the ball in his hands. Something tells me if he had faith in his offense he would've laid on it.

 

i agree though penalties aren't helping.

Edited October 23, 2016 by 52liveforever

[aarondmonroe]

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

LOL flexibility doesn't automatically negate you from having to commit penalties. Just one of many traits a good offensive lineman needs.

Its too many penalties certainly, but not completely unexpected in my eyes. 

There is a way of holding a guy and it not getting called.  Keep your hand inside of theres and the ref will not call it.  speaking from experience.