Any trades brewing?

[redlobster]

dont forget the patriots have the following contracts to attend to next year :

 

Hightower, Collins, Blount, Bennett, Sheard, Cannon, Branch and Vollmer 

[Ravenseconbeast]

34 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

It's an extremely good move on their part and I'm jealous the Ravens didn't make it.

The Browns have over $50M in cap space and can easily franchise tag him if negotiations don't go well. If he leaves, it becomes a fourth round comp and the Browns have the rights to his comp pick.

Sashi Brown is pulling some damn good moves in Cleveland.

you are right.  In terms of the situation that browns are in, it probably helps them. Giving up 3rd rounder for a team w/ stockpile of picks with a ton of cap. Why not?

Patriots seem to have a way of doing some decent trades.  Ill give them that.

For us, i think we are fine.  We dont have much cap, and i dont see us making any flash moves for rest of the season

 

 

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Collins didnt play much against the Bills, so it looks like in hindsight this was brewing behind the scenes.

I love how some are using this (the Browns aggressively acquiring him) as a knock on our FO - why arent we like them - while BB, the genius, is the one refusing to pay him and accepted a 3rd round pick for an all pro caliber player.... which is more in line with how we operate.

So, youre mad we dont operate like the 0-7 or 0-8, annually abysmal Browns, and do operate like the yearly contenders, 4 time recent SB champion Patriots?

 

Yes, thats a sweeping statement... and sure Id love a player like that here. But he's about to be paid ridiculous money. Throwing a 3rd round pick that could be an impact player for peanuts over 5 years, for potentially an 8 game rental is not good business. For the Browns, it is, because they at least can control him for one more year with the Tag since they have the space... but this wouldnt be a great move for us bc we almost definitely couldnt retain him next year.

It's actually only a fourth round pick if Collins doesn't re-sign and the Browns would get his third round comp if he signs elsewhere.

If they re-sign him, it becomes a third round pick.

It is an incredibly smart move by the Browns.

Get an All-Pro at OLB for a third round pick OR trade the Pats a fourth round pick and get a third round pick in return.

It's literally a win-win for the Browns.

[ellicottraven]

21 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

I was immediately suspicious.  NE would do something like this just to help the Browns beat us next week.  

No it was a smart move in terms of cap management from their perspective. If they believed it would be impossible to retain him or felt they couldn't afford him, then this is a great move because they get a 3rd rounder for a 8 game loss of his service.

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, Ravenseconbeast said:

you are right.  In terms of the situation that browns are in, it probably helps them. Giving up 3rd rounder for a team w/ stockpile of picks with a ton of cap. Why not?

Patriots seem to have a way of doing some decent trades.  Ill give them that.

For us, i think we are fine.  We dont have much cap, and i dont see us making any flash moves for rest of the season

I think it's a good trade if the Patriots believe he walks and if he is re-signed by the Browns or tagged, that's a higher 3rd round pick than the comp that they'd have gotten from him. 

It's a very wise move by a Browns team that has two first rounders next year and a two second rounders in 2018. No reason to not give that up for an All-Pro talent.

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, ellicottraven said:

No it was a smart move in terms of cap management from their perspective. If they believed it would be impossible to retain him or felt they couldn't afford him, then this is a great move because they get a 3rd rounder for a 8 game loss of his service.

To clarify, this only happens IF he re-signs with the Browns or gets tagged.

[rmw10]

I find it hard to believe that the Patriots value a draft pick (that they'll probably blow on another QB) more than one of their best defensive players who could help them potentially win another Super Bowl.  Weird, weird move.

[jboy19]

13 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

To clarify, this only happens IF he re-signs with the Browns or gets tagged.

If he resigns with the Browns or gets tagged, the Pats will get the Browns regular 4th Round Pick likely, unless the Browns somehow get a comp 3rd for a player other than Collins then the Pats would get that one. That's my understanding at least. 

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Seattle is just now starting to sign their star players... lets revisit their cap situation in 3-5 years when these guys are requiring their 2nd big pay outs, and theyve got a cpl up and coming players to sign on their first big deal.

It's when you have to start making those decisions, who to keep and who to let go, and when 1 or 2 of those deals dont work out bc a guy gets seriously injured or something off the field that things get crazy.

I love how people like to attack our FO and use a team like Seattle, or used to use Cinci as the examples of how we "should" be doing things. Funny - now we're seeing Cinci fall off because they finally had to start picking and choosing, and good young players left that they just couldnt keep. And some high priced guys are injured, suspended, or not playing well.

Its just plain hard to sustain success in this league. If youve got a very good QB on a rookie deal you can do it for a while. Or, if youve got a Tom Brady who can keep one side of the ball playing at a high level without too much surrounding help... then ok. But outside of having the greatest QB ever, or having all your star players on their rookie deals - its just darn near impossible.

Carolina sustained for a year, and only really lost 1 guy. Theyve got even more hard decisions coming their way. Seatlles a year or two away from facing the hard facts. Denver's a year or two away from having to off load half their roster. We're 3-4 years beyond where Seattle, Cinci, and Denver are in their "contender" windows.

Compare us now to where those guys will be in that amount of time -- and if theyre still expertly navigating the cap and filling in with stud FA signings, and bringing up stud draft picks every year - ok then. You win. But until then, its just not an appropriate comparison.

 

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Collins didnt play much against the Bills, so it looks like in hindsight this was brewing behind the scenes.

I love how some are using this (the Browns aggressively acquiring him) as a knock on our FO - why arent we like them - while BB, the genius, is the one refusing to pay him and accepted a 3rd round pick for an all pro caliber player.... which is more in line with how we operate.

So, youre mad we dont operate like the 0-7 or 0-8, annually abysmal Browns, and do operate like the yearly contenders, 4 time recent SB champion Patriots?

Yes, thats a sweeping statement... and sure Id love a player like that here. But he's about to be paid ridiculous money. Throwing a 3rd round pick that could be an impact player for peanuts over 5 years, for potentially an 8 game rental is not good business. For the Browns, it is, because they at least can control him for one more year with the Tag since they have the space... but this wouldnt be a great move for us bc we almost definitely couldnt retain him next year.

I had to quote both of these posts because they are on point.  Too many fans look at situations in the now instead of down the road how things work out.  Great posts

[ellicottraven]

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

I find it hard to believe that the Patriots value a draft pick (that they'll probably blow on another QB) more than one of their best defensive players who could help them potentially win another Super Bowl.  Weird, weird move.

Well one thing I've learned about Bellichik through years upon years of hating him and the Patriots, is that their methodology seems out of sync with the rest of us and almost illogical at times, but somehow and someway they seem to just get better and better with time. It is disheartening to watch them prosper despite all the seemingly illogical moves... to summarize my small rant, they're just incredible led by a coach that is unmatched in the NFL.

[BmoreBird22]

2 hours ago, jboy19 said:

If he resigns with the Browns or gets tagged, the Pats will get the Browns regular 4th Round Pick likely, unless the Browns somehow get a comp 3rd for a player other than Collins then the Pats would get that one. That's my understanding at least. 

If he is tagged or re-signed, it's a third. If he walks, it's a fourth 

[jboy19]

48 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

If he is tagged or re-signed, it's a third. If he walks, it's a fourth 

I was confused, but it was clarified that they get the Browns 3rd Comp if the Browns are given a 3rd Comp this year, and a 4th if the Browns are not given a 3rd Rd pick, the Pats get the Browns 4th round pick. The problem is that the Browns are unlikely to get a 3rd round comp pick and the Patriots would forfeit the Browns 4th Round pick bc deflategate. 

[usmccharles]

I am interested to see what the Bears do with Jeffery.  Now im not advocating us trading for him, by no means.  Just intrigued.  He's had issues with injuries lingering.  Hes going to command 10mill a year I think.  If I was the Bears id trade him because I wouldn't resign him. 

[Deflated Football]

23 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I am interested to see what the Bears do with Jeffery.  Now im not advocating us trading for him, by no means.  Just intrigued.  He's had issues with injuries lingering.  Hes going to command 10mill a year I think.  If I was the Bears id trade him because I wouldn't resign him. 

I wish we would get him  him plus Breshad could be so damn lethal 

[usmccharles]

8 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

I wish we would get him  him plus Breshad could be so damn lethal 

Yea, when he actually plays.  And isn't a decoy.  I just wouldn't want to pay him Dez money. 

[BmoreBird22]

54 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

I was confused, but it was clarified that they get the Browns 3rd Comp if the Browns are given a 3rd Comp this year, and a 4th if the Browns are not given a 3rd Rd pick, the Pats get the Browns 4th round pick. The problem is that the Browns are unlikely to get a 3rd round comp pick and the Patriots would forfeit the Browns 4th Round pick bc deflategate. 

Okay, I was totally confused. thank you for clarifying because this just makes the trade look even better. And if he does walk, they still get the comp.

Edited October 31, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[usmccharles]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Okay, then I'm a bit confused on it. I'll have to read the conditions.

It's looking even better, though, if they only give up a comp.

I don't understand why the Browns would get a comp pick if they sign him....

[BmoreBird22]

11 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I don't understand why the Browns would get a comp pick if they sign him....

They won't get a comp pick for him unless he walks.

They're getting a comp for their FA class this year.

[usmccharles]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

They won't get a comp pick for him unless he walks.

They're getting a comp for their FA class this year.

Who is leaving this year that they would get a comp pick for? I guess I don't really understand the comp pick process.  My understanding was that a player who walks and signs a big contract, don't really know the rest. 

[Willbacker]

1 hour ago, jboy19 said:

I was confused, but it was clarified that they get the Browns 3rd Comp if the Browns are given a 3rd Comp this year, and a 4th if the Browns are not given a 3rd Rd pick, the Pats get the Browns 4th round pick. The problem is that the Browns are unlikely to get a 3rd round comp pick and the Patriots would forfeit the Browns 4th Round pick bc deflategate. 

The Patriots will be losing their 4th rd pick not the Browns 4th.

[BmoreBird22]

9 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Who is leaving this year that they would get a comp pick for? I guess I don't really understand the comp pick process.  My understanding was that a player who walks and signs a big contract, don't really know the rest. 

They have several. Mack, Schwartz, Gipson, and Benjamin should all qualify amongst a few other FAs

[jboy19]

1 hour ago, Willbacker said:

The Patriots will be losing their 4th rd pick not the Browns 4th.

They lose their highest 4th Round Pick, which is more likely to be the Browns than the Patriots. 

[rmw10]

2 hours ago, jboy19 said:

They lose their highest 4th Round Pick, which is more likely to be the Browns than the Patriots. 

The trade was for a 2018 pick, apparently. 

[January J]

Trade Brandon Williams for a 3rd round comp pick in 2017 instead of having to wait until 2018? He's likely gone after the year anyway since we likely won't be able to match another teams offer with plenty of cap room. Plus we have Peirce waiting in the wings looking to step up. 

Could be silly since we will get a comp pick for him anyway and we can have him for the rest of this season.. But an extra comp pick in 2017 is pretty enticing.. The pats basically just did the same thing with collins.

And what if we could actually pull a lineman or cb out the deal along with the comp pick..does that change the equation?

For those who say we might as well wait until the end of the year and get the comp pick from him walking- there is always that chance of a serious injury occurring before years end and him not garnering a third round comp pick in 2018 anyway..you never know. Thoughts?

 

Edited November 1, 2016 by January J

[VermontRaven]

4 minutes ago, January J said:

Trade Brandon Williams for a 3rd round comp pick in 2017 instead of having to wait until 2018? He's likely gone after the year anyway since we likely won't be able to match another teams with plenty of cap rooms offer...plus we have Peirce waiting in the wings looking to step up. 

Could be silly since we will get a comp pick for him anyway and we can have him for the rest of this season.. But an extra comp pick in 2017 is pretty enticing.. The pats basically just did the same thing with collins.

And what if we could actually pull a lineman or cb out the deal along with the comp pick..does that change the equation?

For those who say we might as well wait until the end of the year and get the comp pick from him walking- there is always that chance of a serious injury occurring before years end and him not garnering a third round comp pick in 2018 anyway..you never know. Thoughts?

 

I agree this is a very enticing idea.  Not sure if anyone would give us a 3rd for him now, knowing they'd have to reach a deal or franchise him next season (which means committing mega money)  Doubt it happens--but since we are playing the "what if" game---What if the Browns gave us Haden for Williams.

[jboy19]

2 minutes ago, January J said:

Trade Brandon Williams for a 3rd round comp pick in 2017 instead of having to wait until 2018? He's likely gone after the year anyway since we likely won't be able to match another teams with plenty of cap rooms offer...plus we have Peirce waiting in the wings looking to step up. 

Could be silly since we will get a comp pick for him anyway and we can have him for the rest of this season.. But an extra comp pick in 2017 is pretty enticing.. The pats basically just did the same thing with collins.

And what if we could actually pull a lineman or cb out the deal along with the comp pick..does that change the equation?

For those who say we might as well wait until the end of the year and get the comp pick from him walking- there is always that chance of a serious injury occurring before years end and him not garnishing a third round comp pick in 2018 anyway..you never know. Thoughts?

 

I think the problem with trying to pull what the Patriots pulled is that (from what I've heard), Collins wanted out of NE and to go to Cleveland. Doubt the Ravens pull the plug on Williams quite yet even if only to keep the locker room unified. 

[BmoreBird22]

52 minutes ago, January J said:

Trade Brandon Williams for a 3rd round comp pick in 2017 instead of having to wait until 2018? He's likely gone after the year anyway since we likely won't be able to match another teams offer with plenty of cap room. Plus we have Peirce waiting in the wings looking to step up. 

Could be silly since we will get a comp pick for him anyway and we can have him for the rest of this season.. But an extra comp pick in 2017 is pretty enticing.. The pats basically just did the same thing with collins.

And what if we could actually pull a lineman or cb out the deal along with the comp pick..does that change the equation?

For those who say we might as well wait until the end of the year and get the comp pick from him walking- there is always that chance of a serious injury occurring before years end and him not garnering a third round comp pick in 2018 anyway..you never know. Thoughts?

 

I think the Ravens have a better shot of retaining Williams than the Pats did with Collins. Collins starting point was a Von Miller deal.

[BmoreBird22]

45 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

I think the problem with trying to pull what the Patriots pulled is that (from what I've heard), Collins wanted out of NE and to go to Cleveland. Doubt the Ravens pull the plug on Williams quite yet even if only to keep the locker room unified. 

I haven't heard this.

Everything I heard was that Collins wanted too much money and the Patriots couldn't commit. Didn't see it was Collins wanting out.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

22 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

It's actually only a fourth round pick if Collins doesn't re-sign and the Browns would get his third round comp if he signs elsewhere.

If they re-sign him, it becomes a third round pick.

It is an incredibly smart move by the Browns.

Get an All-Pro at OLB for a third round pick OR trade the Pats a fourth round pick and get a third round pick in return.

It's literally a win-win for the Browns.

IDK that its a foregone conclusion that they'd get a 3rd for him if he leaves.

Also entering FA you've got guys likely to make big money like:

 

Alshon Jeffrey

Andre Whitworth

Matt Kalil

Andre Smith

Sebastian Vollmer

Riley Reiff

Jason Pierre-Paul

Calais Campbell

Dantari Poe

Kawaan Short

Demarcus Ware

Nick Perry

Melvin INgram

Datone Jones

Junior Galette

Chandler Jones

Dont'a Hightower

Trumaine Johnson

Stephon Gillmore

Morris Claiborne

Dre Kirkpatrick

Logan Ryan

Eric Berry...

 

How many 3rds do they hand out? Only like 4, right? Some of these guys obviously wont make as much, and some won't leave. But, you only need a couple to leave and make more for him to only net a 4th... and the 4th theyre giving up is going to be the 1st pick in the 4th; the 3rd they recoup at best will only be a couple picks higher, and theres potential it drops to the end of the round.

Alshon, JPP, Poe, Short, Ware, Ingram, Hightower, Chandler Jones, Trumaine Johnson, Stephon Gillmore, Morris Claiborne, Kirkpatrick, Logan Ryan, and Eric Berry could all stand to make a ton of money.

 

Again, not saying it wasnt a smart move on the Browns part (in the first place). But, the guarantee that their pick improves even if they dont resign him just isnt fact.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

3 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think the Ravens have a better shot of retaining Williams than the Pats did with Collins. Collins starting point was a Von Miller deal.

Collins wanted Von Miller money? You sure? I've heard $50m from every source I've read.

You sure you're not thinking Chandler Jones?