[News] Eisenberg: Ravens' No. 1 Problem Is Not What You Think It Is

[TheRavengers]

Can't disagree on finishing drives with a TD score. And it's not like Flacco and co. are incapable of doing so, because he can make awesome throws and T. West can and has put good runs down. They can't be all conservative when we're in the RedZone, though with Mornhinweg about to be in his second week of being the O-Coordinator I expect things to be better, since he's had some extra time to flesh out the playbook.

Though the presence, or lack of, our main O-line starters was a difference.

[sami]

  21 minutes ago, sami said:

Eisenberg is wrong. It IS the penalties. Weve had so many penalties that ends good drives and so many penalties that have let the other teams offense out of a hole that we would be 6-0 if we didn't commit penalties. We cleanup the penalties and we win the games.

In 2012 we lead the league in penalties, the next year Seattle lead the league in penalties and they to won a Super Bowl. Penalties can be overcome by just going out there and making a play to rectify your previous mistake. That's what we don't do so well yet, that being said I liked the rhythm and flow of week one for our new OC. I think in the coming week we will be scoring a lot more points, but we still need to balance out our ratio. Honestly that penalty they called on NYG at the end of our last drive was complete BS, but they overcame that.

so by what ur saying is the more penalties the better the chance of winning a Super Bowl? Sorry, not buying it.

[Ravenshine]

  1 hour ago, Ravenshine said:

I'm just gonna have to say I told you so here...because back when we were 3-0 and most here were content with this...I was putting up a telling stat: Ravens just 4TDs total vs other undefeated teams like us back then had 7, 8, 10 TDs total.

I said basically in order to keep up with the teams in this league who were winning games like us...we need to find ways to score TDs so that when we face them...in second half of our season, we can compete with them. Well, turns out it came sooner than that when we played the Raiders. And there will be no let up. After we come back from our bye, we face teams that can easily, easily put up 3+ TDs a game. That's 7 Tucker field goals! Nothing against Tucker, he won us a few close games, but not only is it unreasonable to ask our kicker to do that, it's plain embarrassing to win games that way.

But my point is not that. My point is this: we are just BEGINNING to improve - this last game...new OC, run game working, Oline looked better...but now our fans are, as a majority, getting very upset. Now, just as the team starts to make a positive turn? Yet when they were 3-0 not many people were concerned about lack of scoring and even said they don't care about it as long as we're winning? Well, that's all changed hasn't it? So now ppl are upset...but now is the time the Ravens are actually beginning to show ability of approaching TD level of scoring more often (we got into red zone and made 2 run TDs last game...which previously we had trouble getting into red zone and hung barely in fg range on most drives much less could run it in), yet ppl are not happy. Well, we all should be happy at least that this is getting addressed now as it should have been earlier but wasn't hitting the radar much back then. Some were talking about it, not just me I read others commenting about it even when 3-0 but it wasn't a main topic by any means, not as it is now. So...

Moral of this...jmo but: we learned that no we are NOT as good as our record says, nor as BAD as our record says either ? But in a league where good teams score 3+ TDs a game...that it's critical we are doing this as well. And I still disagree with the general notion that games can be close as long as we win. Why...because that is walking a fine line game after game that can easily sway the other direction. I'm all for winning 'some games' doesn't have to be every game, by 2 scores or more. Why not? Why can't we change that MO? Why does there have to be only one way to win games?

So oddly I was upset with the Ravens when they were 3-0 but I'm not upset with them now because I know they are making the changes some of us wanted to see them make back then, and yet that have more critics now than then so it's all very ironic but had to happen sooner or later.

We have proven over the last 22 games that it will be close no matter who we play. Even in 2014 we were awful on defense and almost out scored a patriots team who went on to win the Super Bowl, and we hadn't put up that many points all year. Trust me points are points with this team, as you can see we don't really like to score until it seams hopeless. Then mabey we'll punch one in there.

Yeah I know that...I'm voting a change of this MO...make scoring great again, lol...sorry jk. But not kidding about scoring like a 2 TD lead and ending game like that. If the Ravens players don't want to do it, well nothing I can do about it, but I hope they kinda want to do it for a change. Just me hoping.

[ellicottraven]

I would attribute our losses to one thing. Poor offensive play by the QB, O-line (to a degree) and Receivers' dropped catches. Coaching has been unispiring and Harbaugh has shown a propensity for bad judgment calls on the field. It's almost like because some statistical modelling has shown him that more 4th down conversion end up successful, he's got to go for them all, regardless of the situation we're in. That's either astonishingly stupid or just plain bull headed. Either option is bad. We may get over this bad patch, but I doubt we will just given the opponents coming up. I don't think we're going to have a winning season no matter how optimistically I grade the upcoming games in our favor.

[The Greek]

mornhinweg will be just fine imo as he figures out players strengths/weaknesses but he needs a healthy o-line to help him out and the stupid penalties to go away

Edited October 18, 2016 by The Greek

[Purple Hazard]

First we need to get healthy. I do think that the O will perform if our O line is back to normal and Joe has more time. With a better run game we should be fine in the pass game as well. Everyone can see that Joe isn't comfortable in the pocket right now and why should he? He absorbs massive hits every game. Can't let this continue.

[btfan2]

I've read all these posts and everyone has great comments. I have to say I'm a great Flacco fan, I remember well when we did not have a franchise QB, Joe on his worst day is better then any QB we have had. The Ravens have never been a scoring team. We were all about "D", then came the big deal about having offense. Now we have neither; curious.


I have been really disappointed with Joe lately. I moved to Florida and can't afford Sunday Ticket or whatever that phony stuff is. I have to watch other games and watch the ticker at the bottom to see the scores yikes. Anyway I watch the stuff on utube. This week I was aghast(I like that word) oh wait my point; we're losing and nobody is moving to get in position the QB is in a coma and we get a delay of game penalty. I couldn't freaking believe it!! I love Joe but; for that any coach worth his salt would have benched him until further notice. I've just never seen anything so gross.


So what's the problem with this team -- EVERYTHING!!! Harbaugh has lost this team, Joe has lost any drive he had. The fans are sick of Harbaugh and his we're going to do this, we're going to do that while he actually does nothing. Well except get in front of any and every camera he can. I have never been a Harbaugh fan he is a song and dance man. He belongs in marketing and we need a coach....... sigh

[objective view]

mornhinweg will be just fine imo as he figures out players strengths/weaknesses but he needs a healthy o-line to help him out and the stupid penalties to go away

He has been a part of this staff for two years he should already know each players strengths and weaknesses if he was paying half attention ....

[EdTheMythicalOne]

This article states one of the issues, but not the number one problem with this team. In my opinion the main problem for this team has to main parts. You win and lose in the trenches. That's where everything begins.

1) The Ravens had a suspect offensive line going into the season with two rookies starting on Flacco's blind side. It now has nobody but Zuttah starting in the position they originally played on the line and they lost their best lineman in Yanda. Don't know when Yanda, Stanley, or Wagner are coming back.

2) The defensive line and the whole front seven are not consistently providing pressure. Manning didn't have anything to worry about last week. Suggs got the only sack and he was injured on the play. We saw what this team looked like without him last season even with a healthy Dumervil on the other side, which we also don't have now. Jernigan showed flashes. Guy is a solid player and run stuffer so I don't expect big sack numbers from him.

If you're weak on the O-line you don't score points. If you're weak on the D-Line you allow your secondary to get exposed.

[The Greek]

webb and lewis stink thus far. i actually cannot wait for elam to come back. hopefully he provides a spark on the back end.

[kpfeiffe]

4 hours ago, Raven Quill said:

Come on, let's call it like it is. The problem is Flacco. I'd love to see a ranking of QBs based on yards after the catch, particularly for throws over 15 yards. Some of that, of course, has to do with the receiver, but if you can hit the WR in-stride, he's going to get 5-10 yards after the catch pretty easily. But, if you throw it 4 feet over his head or 2 feet behind him so he has to make a ridiculous move to even have a shot at the ball (and then get clobbered), you get no extra yardage. Now, you can say, we won a SuperBowl with those throws, and you're right. But, it's because we had Boldin standing on his head to make those catches. And then we let him go and gave Flacco $100 million. We should have kept Boldin and sold Flacco high.

The other problem with Flacco is that he is not a student of the game. When Peyton Manning was playing, they would show him on the sidelines after each drive and he would be reviewing pictures of defensive formations and talking with his receivers. Every time they show Flacco on the sidelines, he's on the bench by himself staring into space. He's not continuously striving to improve his game...and hasn't.

This is spot on correct. Flacco has always been this way. Derrick Mason got so frustrated with him one game in Carolina that he literally assaulted him on the field. How many times have you seen that? Not excusing mason's actions, but it was telling. Ed Reed knew what Flacco was about too and called him out. Look, Flacco got hot at the right time. Even in that Super Bowl year, we lost 3 of our last 5 games. Cam Cameron was fired. Joe got hot in the playoffs (it was great) and then its been right back to the same old average QB play. He's never been a Pro Bowl player. In 9 years. That says something. 

[BKeyser]

Nope. That's not it. It's a problem that has plagued this team for three years: the inability to adjust to what the other team is doing. This happens on both sides of the ball. Why can't we close it out? Why can't we put it in the endzone? Stop their fourth and one? Not give up that late scoring drive?

We're predictable.

[b93333]

IMHO the biggest single problem is that when our QB got his huge contract he lost all sense of urgency... just compare his record before and after signing the largest contract in history up to that time. It's a common problem and one can find many examples. It's the downside of awarding a huge guaranteed contract.

[Dylan Griffith]

One hundred percent the linebackers. Dumervil, Suggs, and Mosley are not cutting it. They are not Fast enough to play for this defense. Number two would be John Harbaugh. He has lost motivation and is only interested in collecting his check.   

[PalmBayRaven]

  5 hours ago, Raven Quill said:

Come on, let's call it like it is. The problem is Flacco. I'd love to see a ranking of QBs based on yards after the catch, particularly for throws over 15 yards. Some of that, of course, has to do with the receiver, but if you can hit the WR in-stride, he's going to get 5-10 yards after the catch pretty easily. But, if you throw it 4 feet over his head or 2 feet behind him so he has to make a ridiculous move to even have a shot at the ball (and then get clobbered), you get no extra yardage. Now, you can say, we won a SuperBowl with those throws, and you're right. But, it's because we had Boldin standing on his head to make those catches. And then we let him go and gave Flacco $100 million. We should have kept Boldin and sold Flacco high.

The other problem with Flacco is that he is not a student of the game. When Peyton Manning was playing, they would show him on the sidelines after each drive and he would be reviewing pictures of defensive formations and talking with his receivers. Every time they show Flacco on the sidelines, he's on the bench by himself staring into space. He's not continuously striving to improve his game...and hasn't.

This is spot on correct. Flacco has always been this way. Derrick Mason got so frustrated with him one game in Carolina that he literally assaulted him on the field. How many times have you seen that? Not excusing mason's actions, but it was telling. Ed Reed knew what Flacco was about too and called him out. Look, Flacco got hot at the right time. Even in that Super Bowl year, we lost 3 of our last 5 games. Cam Cameron was fired. Joe got hot in the playoffs (it was great) and then its been right back to the same old average QB play. He's never been a Pro Bowl player. In 9 years. That says something. 

Totally agree. I thought for sure we would see some kind of development and year after year there isn't any and this year it seems like he is fundamentally flawed.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

Yes forget to address the issues that are preventing them finishing the drives as if they don't exist or contribute to the issue. Who wouldn't rather a 2nd and 20 over a 1st and 10 and nothing like having to dig yourself out of a long distance to go for a first down to get the offenses excitement and confidence up and going..

[Ravenous_Ravens]

IMHO the biggest single problem is that when our QB got his huge contract he lost all sense of urgency... just compare his record before and after signing the largest contract in history up to that time. It's a common problem and one can find many examples. It's the downside of awarding a huge guaranteed contract.

The upside is to turn up the heat on Flacco to perform now. He needs a kick start to get going apparently.

[mearzunkies]

webb and lewis stink thus far. i actually cannot wait for elam to come back. hopefully he provides a spark on the back end.

Good one;)

[mearzunkies]

Nope. That's not it. It's a problem that has plagued this team for three years: the inability to adjust to what the other team is doing. This happens on both sides of the ball. Why can't we close it out? Why can't we put it in the endzone? Stop their fourth and one? Not give up that late scoring drive?

We're predictable.

The Ravens are predictable. IMO this is the #1 thing to fix. A close second is the O-line is a mess.

[law215]

The Ravens biggest problem is they lost their winning identity. Currently, the Ravens are a SOFT football team. They traded toughness for finesse. Tough guys for wimps. It hurts to admit it.

Top 10 indicators

1. Your FB dives at LB ankles when lead blocking on the goal line. (Leach, O Neal, Gash would not ever do that)
2. They pass the ball close to 65-70% of the time. Tough teams love to impose their will
3. They dominate no one!
4. Lack emotional leaders. No one looks pissed off after 3 straight losses. They are accepting losing.

Where is the fire?

5. In short yardage, they try tosses and trickery instead of hat on hat blocking.
6. No Dawgs in the locker room.

Webb and J Smith (the 2 top paid DBs) automatically let Weddle be their leader before he made one play wearing purple and black

When Ray was younger, he didn’t let Woodson, Goose, McCrary or even Deon Sanders walk in the locker for him to follow.

7. Ravens have a finesse approach to the offense line.

Ravens used to have guys like Zeus, JO, Mulitalo, Searcy, Birk, and even KO. Tough means guys that knocked people off the ball.

Over the pass few seasons, they have too many guys like Shipley, Monroe, Oher, and Hurst. Too many wimps on that offensive line.

Only Yanda is a PROVEN, consistent tough guy. They got math professors blocking for the $20M QB, and RBs

8. No fear factor on defense. Lewis, Reed, JJ, McAlister, Goose, Herring, A. Thomas, Ngata, Pollard, Landry, B. Scott, Sharper, Hartwell, and C. Williams. The list could go on.

The Ravens use to have guys on defense that tried to knock people out or could make big plays. They were feisty, sometime knuckle headed, but intimidated people from being in the middle of the field.

Who scares you on defense? No one!

9. The best players are over 30 years old and most were drafted by another team
10. Soft players lack mental toughness and discipline

Soft players commit penalties because they are TOO WEAK to block so they hold,
TOO SLOW to keep up so they grab,
They DROP balls because they are more concerned with the hit than making the play
They attempt to tackle with their arms instead of giving up their body and wrapping people up.
They false start because the guy across from them has them scared and insecure

They need to get back to a hard-nosed, smash mouth, AFC North Football

[JamesA119]

  6 hours ago, Molson Man said:

  6 hours ago, sami said:

Eisenberg is wrong. It IS the penalties. Weve had so many penalties that ends good drives and so many penalties that have let the other teams offense out of a hole that we would be 6-0 if we didn't commit penalties. We cleanup the penalties and we win the games.

In 2012 we lead the league in penalties, the next year Seattle lead the league in penalties and they to won a Super Bowl. Penalties can be overcome by just going out there and making a play to rectify your previous mistake. That's what we don't do so well yet, that being said I liked the rhythm and flow of week one for our new OC. I think in the coming week we will be scoring a lot more points, but we still need to balance out our ratio. Honestly that penalty they called on NYG at the end of our last drive was complete BS, but they overcame that.

so by what ur saying is the more penalties the better the chance of winning a Super Bowl? Sorry, not buying it.

No Sami you missed the point. What's implied is that if you make plays consistently, you can over come penalties. Penalties didn't prevent Juszczyk from making that block that would have propelled West to the end zone

[52liveforever]

I agree that we need to finish drives with touch downs, but we aren't settling for field goals either. If we were we would probably be better than 3-3. Now I absolutely do not  disagree with Harbs going for it on fourth when he has. He's challenging the offense to make plays to win games and they just simply are not. Regardless of the play call that's when players need to step up. The offense is getting beaten and out willed. With the amount of chances our defense gives our offense it's really not acceptable.

[NeilfromBarbados]

I disagree with Eisenberg. The main problem is identity. Who are the Ravens? Are they going out there and hitting people in the mouth? Nope. Are teams seeing them on the schedule and circling the date? Nope. Are they aggressive, mean and nasty? Nope. It seems like the Ravens have gone a bit soft. The O-line used to be frightening. My friend Zeus (God rest him) was mean as a rattler, and Ogden would repeatedly humiliate pass rushers. Vonta Leach was simply not a human being. Don't even talk about Ray Lewis. Derrick Mason took hits, and kept on playing; arm hanging down and all. There are too many others to mention. The Ravens NEED to find that identity again. Coach Harbs is tough as nails, but the message is no longer sinking in. The whole AFC North has gotten a bit soft, but the Ravens have fallen a bit further than the others. It's not fun to watch anymore. But there is hope. I am hopeful.

[jravens1313]

I am noticing a trend league wide where officiating intentionally keeps games close when blowout potential is approaching. Obviously the Browns are not going to hang with the Patriots, but I have noticed what seems to be an effort to keep home teams in the game (more concession sales, tax revenue, higher TV ratings, and higher advertising revenue result). Also their is an uncanny way that teams can not pull away in their division either. *Keep the race going on until the end. Even teams that you clearly expect to dominate, can't get easy wins to take a 2 or 3 game lead in the division? Shady.

Keep an eye out for more shadyness.

[Dfence4champs2052]

9 hours ago, bluehen said:

If you are on the 1 yard line and after 3 running plays, you are loosing yardage, the odds of another run play succeeding are not great!

Exactly!!!! A clear indicator to take the points. I guess those previous three downs were an anomaly.

[Dfence4champs2052]

2 hours ago, law215 said:

The Ravens biggest problem is they lost their winning identity. Currently, the Ravens are a SOFT football team. They traded toughness for finesse. Tough guys for wimps. It hurts to admit it.

Top 10 indicators

1. Your FB dives at LB ankles when lead blocking on the goal line. (Leach, O Neal, Gash would not ever do that)
2. They pass the ball close to 65-70% of the time. Tough teams love to impose their will
3. They dominate no one!
4. Lack emotional leaders. No one looks pissed off after 3 straight losses. They are accepting losing.

Where is the fire?

5. In short yardage, they try tosses and trickery instead of hat on hat blocking.
6. No Dawgs in the locker room.

Webb and J Smith (the 2 top paid DBs) automatically let Weddle be their leader before he made one play wearing purple and black

When Ray was younger, he didn’t let Woodson, Goose, McCrary or even Deon Sanders walk in the locker for him to follow.

7. Ravens have a finesse approach to the offense line.

Ravens used to have guys like Zeus, JO, Mulitalo, Searcy, Birk, and even KO. Tough means guys that knocked people off the ball.

Over the pass few seasons, they have too many guys like Shipley, Monroe, Oher, and Hurst. Too many wimps on that offensive line.

Only Yanda is a PROVEN, consistent tough guy. They got math professors blocking for the $20M QB, and RBs

8. No fear factor on defense. Lewis, Reed, JJ, McAlister, Goose, Herring, A. Thomas, Ngata, Pollard, Landry, B. Scott, Sharper, Hartwell, and C. Williams. The list could go on.

The Ravens use to have guys on defense that tried to knock people out or could make big plays. They were feisty, sometime knuckle headed, but intimidated people from being in the middle of the field.

Who scares you on defense? No one!

9. The best players are over 30 years old and most were drafted by another team
10. Soft players lack mental toughness and discipline

Soft players commit penalties because they are TOO WEAK to block so they hold,
TOO SLOW to keep up so they grab,
They DROP balls because they are more concerned with the hit than making the play
They attempt to tackle with their arms instead of giving up their body and wrapping people up.
They false start because the guy across from them has them scared and insecure

They need to get back to a hard-nosed, smash mouth, AFC North Football

This is real!!!! Take'em to church!!!!! I agree with this post. Too bad anyone that talked back got shipped out.

[Dedicated Raven]

2 hours ago, JamesA119 said:

No Sami you missed the point. What's implied is that if you make plays consistently, you can over come penalties. Penalties didn't prevent Juszczyk from making that block that would have propelled West to the end zone

Believed you missed her point I.E. You cant bank on overcoming penalties and winning a Super Bowl just because it was done before.

[JamesA119]

  2 hours ago, JamesA119 said:

No Sami you missed the point. What's implied is that if you make plays consistently, you can over come penalties. Penalties didn't prevent Juszczyk from making that block that would have propelled West to the end zone

Believed you missed her point I.E. You cant bank on overcoming penalties and winning a Super Bowl just because it was done before.

No I didn't. Penalty or not, you have to finish drives. Playmakers finish drives. Giants had 3 turnovers and we had zero turnovers, and they still won. The playmaking ability of OBJ made the difference.

In 2012 we had more penalties than any other team and we still won the Super Bowl. We had players that made plays to overcome our mistakes. Ed Reed, Jacoby Jones, Torrey Smith, Anquan Boldin, Pitta.

No one is saying penalties are good, however you can play penalty free game and if you don't finish drives you won't win. Penalties are bad but once again the numbers don't lie. Look at the numbers presented by Eisenberg. If the QB is inaccurate, the WRs are dropping the the ball, the Oline is missing assignments, the OC is not calling the right play depending on down and distance. You won't win regardless of how few a penalty you have.

[Crusader]

Also throw in Joe looks like he just don't care anymore and all of last year issue still exists. I think this team is heading for a cultural change.

[JamesA119]

@Dedicated Raven, remember "hey diddle diddle Ray Rice up the middle" that was 4th and 29. Do you think this team can convert a 4th and 29? You know what, this team doesn't even believe it can.
How do you get to 4th and 29? Penalties. How do you get out of 4th and 29? Make plays. That's the equalizer. That's what the article is implying, and I buy it.