[News] John Harbaugh Discusses Fourth-Down Gamble After Giants Loss

[ravenwildman]

I think that trying to power a run from the half yard line with a makeshift O-line and it doesn't work the first time or second time, then probably trying again on third and fourth down is not the best idea. Instead spreading them out at least would have given the option to pass (or open up a run). Banging off them stacking for the run, was perhaps not the best idea. I have no problem going for it, but choice of plays could have been better. I think on second down, a play option with option for Joe to run at least would have backed up their secondary, if not score. I noticed nobody was ghosting Joe. I guess they forgot he can run. Powerful is good...but sneaky works too. Just my humble opinion. GO RAVENS! CB 25

Edited October 18, 2016 by ravenwildman
misspelled word, grammar

[Bob21043]

I have no problem with the 4th and 1 at the goaline call. I have a problem with the plays that were called in the series - all runs to the middle (telegraphed). The whole defense (and everyone else) knew what was coming with the alignment of the offense.

[Rav'n Maniac]

I like an aggressive coach and I like going for it on 4th and goal. I didn't like that whole series of play calls. I would have never have run a power formation sweep on any of the downs. You run the option sweep on 2nd or 3rd down.

As others have said, you have to spread the D out and we didn't do that on any of the 4 plays. The power formation puts 11 players in the box compared to 7 or 8 on a spread.

[KidNme]

I think with the way we've been playing and how close all of our games are, would dictate going for the 3pts. Being aggressive is fine but being smart is better.
Take the points, especially when our O line is so banged up. At the very least, a couple play action plays would have given us more chance at success. Juice did whiff on a block and that's why I really hate the diving at the knees type of blocking. You can't block if you're on the ground and blocking like that means you're definitely going to be on the ground.

[Crusader]

I think with the way we've been playing and how close all of our games are, would dictate going for the 3pts. Being aggressive is fine but being smart is better.
Take the points, especially when our O line is so banged up. At the very least, a couple play action plays would have given us more chance at success. Juice did whiff on a block and that's why I really hate the diving at the knees type of blocking. You can't block if you're on the ground and blocking like that means you're definitely going to be on the ground.

Right on, are these coaches watching the same games we are?

[The Mom Gene]

  44 minutes ago, KidNme said:

I think with the way we've been playing and how close all of our games are, would dictate going for the 3pts. Being aggressive is fine but being smart is better.
Take the points, especially when our O line is so banged up. At the very least, a couple play action plays would have given us more chance at success. Juice did whiff on a block and that's why I really hate the diving at the knees type of blocking. You can't block if you're on the ground and blocking like that means you're definitely going to be on the ground.

Right on, are these coaches watching the same games we are?

No, thank God. They are the coaches We are the fans... I'm with Harbs on this one. The way that folks are lately??? Nobody is a winner on that staff. Everything gets critiqued to the person's opinion and to the nth degree. He gets into the endzone... They are hero's.

[Ravenshine]

  44 minutes ago, Crusader said:

  1 hour ago, KidNme said:

I think with the way we've been playing and how close all of our games are, would dictate going for the 3pts. Being aggressive is fine but being smart is better.
Take the points, especially when our O line is so banged up. At the very least, a couple play action plays would have given us more chance at success. Juice did whiff on a block and that's why I really hate the diving at the knees type of blocking. You can't block if you're on the ground and blocking like that means you're definitely going to be on the ground.

Right on, are these coaches watching the same games we are?

No, thank God. They are the coaches We are the fans... I'm with Harbs on this one. The way that folks are lately??? Nobody is a winner on that staff. Everything gets critiqued to the person's opinion and to the nth degree. He gets into the endzone... They are hero's.

Agree. If the shoe was on other foot, if it were being done to them...they wouldn't like it one bit lol. But they sure can dish out the criticism like they know how plays would work.

Plays work when they are executed well, that's up to the players to do that. More than anyone else in the team the players need to perform in sync and make the play work...can't win games on kicking field goals all season. Got to learn to get the TD with consistency to stay competitive. Might as well get the experience of trying rather than playing it safe because safe isn't going to be good enough if players can't score TDs.

[AlwaysA_Raven]

  9 hours ago, Shaky End of the Quarter said:

  11 hours ago, Ravenshine said:

"When a head coach decides to go for it on fourth down and the team converts, it was a “gutsy” call. When a head coach decides to go for it on fourth down and the attempt fails, it was a bad decision."

I know right. I'm glad he went for it. No play is guaranteed in NFL, you just try things and hope for the best. But you try with the right logic not carelessly...I don't feel it was a careless call. Thus I have no real issues with it...just wish it had worked.

4th and 9 Fake FG in the Super Bowl is not careless enough for you? Having Tucker line up as a lefty and throw a pass in swirling winds not characterized as careless?

The main reason why you go for the points is because there was a ton of time on the clock and aside from 1 big catch the D was doing a great job and creating turnovers. In the scenario that we would have gone for the FG that would have made the game 16-17. If in the following drive the Giants score a TD and go up 16-24 it is still a 1 possession game.

Can you win a game in the 4th Qrt with 14 plus minutes left on the clock? NO!

Can you win a game in the 4th Qrt with 0 minutes left on the clock? YES!

WTG Harbs!

You do realize that after we turned the ball over on downs, the Giants only got to the 20 and punted which we then turned into a FG to make the score - you guessed it - 17-16.

Same outcome.

True! But you also lost time on the clock, deflated your offense, and gave your opponent's defense unnecessary moral boast at home field.. It is unforgivable in my opinion!! .. The clear message that your team gets, both on offense and defense, from those failed tries is that we are a desperate who consistently resort to desperate actions and consistently fail... This team needs to build confidence and that only comes a little bit at a time and only comes from consistent good playing even if it was little... A FG would have been more than enough to do that..

[RavenLunatic]

Coach John,
I feel like you're out coaching yourself. This team isn't setting the world on fire offensively. Take the freaking points when you can. You have an ALL WORLD kicker - USE HIM!!! You can't predict how the rest of the game is going to work out. Be smart for crying out loud.

[drillem]

They're playing in the same stadium again this week (Met Life) so he can practice doing it right this time with another team. By the way has any team had to play 2 different opponents in the same stadium in consecutive weeks before or is this a new statistic?

[drillem]

  1 hour ago, The Mom Gene said:

  1 hour ago, Crusader said:

  2 hours ago, KidNme said:

I think with the way we've been playing and how close all of our games are, would dictate going for the 3pts. Being aggressive is fine but being smart is better.
Take the points, especially when our O line is so banged up. At the very least, a couple play action plays would have given us more chance at success. Juice did whiff on a block and that's why I really hate the diving at the knees type of blocking. You can't block if you're on the ground and blocking like that means you're definitely going to be on the ground.

Right on, are these coaches watching the same games we are?

No, thank God. They are the coaches We are the fans... I'm with Harbs on this one. The way that folks are lately??? Nobody is a winner on that staff. Everything gets critiqued to the person's opinion and to the nth degree. He gets into the endzone... They are hero's.

Agree. If the shoe was on other foot, if it were being done to them...they wouldn't like it one bit lol. But they sure can dish out the criticism like they know how plays would work.

Plays work when they are executed well, that's up to the players to do that. More than anyone else in the team the players need to perform in sync and make the play work...can't win games on kicking field goals all season. Got to learn to get the TD with consistency to stay competitive. Might as well get the experience of trying rather than playing it safe because safe isn't going to be good enough if players can't score TDs.

It's up to the hc to know the strengths and weaknesses of his players. He didn't do that here. They've struggled all year to punch the ball into the end zone. Meanwhile, Tucker has been stellar in punting.

[Ravenite77]

“All the numbers will tell you that you have to go for that,” Harbaugh said.... Not when you only have 2 starters on the O-line and 1 is playing out of position!!

[Ravenshine]

  5 hours ago, Ravenshine said:

  5 hours ago, The Mom Gene said:

  6 hours ago, Crusader said:

  6 hours ago, KidNme said:

I think with the way we've been playing and how close all of our games are, would dictate going for the 3pts. Being aggressive is fine but being smart is better.
Take the points, especially when our O line is so banged up. At the very least, a couple play action plays would have given us more chance at success. Juice did whiff on a block and that's why I really hate the diving at the knees type of blocking. You can't block if you're on the ground and blocking like that means you're definitely going to be on the ground.

Right on, are these coaches watching the same games we are?

No, thank God. They are the coaches We are the fans... I'm with Harbs on this one. The way that folks are lately??? Nobody is a winner on that staff. Everything gets critiqued to the person's opinion and to the nth degree. He gets into the endzone... They are hero's.

Agree. If the shoe was on other foot, if it were being done to them...they wouldn't like it one bit lol. But they sure can dish out the criticism like they know how plays would work.

Plays work when they are executed well, that's up to the players to do that. More than anyone else in the team the players need to perform in sync and make the play work...can't win games on kicking field goals all season. Got to learn to get the TD with consistency to stay competitive. Might as well get the experience of trying rather than playing it safe because safe isn't going to be good enough if players can't score TDs.

It's up to the hc to know the strengths and weaknesses of his players. He didn't do that here. They've struggled all year to punch the ball into the end zone. Meanwhile, Tucker has been stellar in punting.

They have to do better than just rely on Tucker, they have to take risks and be playmakers. Can only do that when given the chance to do so.

[Purple Dawg 96]

Ray Lewis told Double R "To always head up field"! West and Juice ran 5yds sideways! Punch it in like we did when Haloti was here! LETS GO!

[Rav'n Maniac]

  On 10/18/2016 at 1:24 AM, TheConquerorWorm said:

  On 10/18/2016 at 0:53 AM, Shaky End of the Quarter said:

  On 10/17/2016 at 10:49 PM, Ravenshine said:

"When a head coach decides to go for it on fourth down and the team converts, it was a “gutsy” call. When a head coach decides to go for it on fourth down and the attempt fails, it was a bad decision."

I know right. I'm glad he went for it. No play is guaranteed in NFL, you just try things and hope for the best. But you try with the right logic not carelessly...I don't feel it was a careless call. Thus I have no real issues with it...just wish it had worked.

4th and 9 Fake FG in the Super Bowl is not careless enough for you? Having Tucker line up as a lefty and throw a pass in swirling winds not characterized as careless?

The main reason why you go for the points is because there was a ton of time on the clock and aside from 1 big catch the D was doing a great job and creating turnovers. In the scenario that we would have gone for the FG that would have made the game 16-17. If in the following drive the Giants score a TD and go up 16-24 it is still a 1 possession game.

Can you win a game in the 4th Qrt with 14 plus minutes left on the clock? NO!

Can you win a game in the 4th Qrt with 0 minutes left on the clock? YES!

WTG Harbs!

You do realize that after we turned the ball over on downs, the Giants only got to the 20 and punted which we then turned into a FG to make the score - you guessed it - 17-16.

Same outcome.

True! But you also lost time on the clock, deflated your offense, and gave your opponent's defense unnecessary moral boast at home field.. It is unforgivable in my opinion!! .. The clear message that your team gets, both on offense and defense, from those failed tries is that we are a desperate who consistently resort to desperate actions and consistently fail... This team needs to build confidence and that only comes a little bit at a time and only comes from consistent good playing even if it was little... A FG would have been more than enough to do that..

Sorry but, you don't think that settling for a field goal deflates your offense? Actually it demoralizes them. No offensive player wants to ever settle for a field goal. To an offense that's accepting defeat on the drive. Everyone that has played ball in high school/college already knows this.

[Raven_Lunatic]

Who even cares at this point? Harbs knows his O can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag, but insists on putting them out there. The formations were garbage, and the opposing D knew they could just pile-up at the line. These coaches are supposed to be so cerebral, how about buying a clue?

My wife was just explaining how expensive the tickets are for the Steelers game. I said, "Who cares? I don't want to go see this sorry excuse for a team lose once again." I went to the preseason vs Detroit, and we went to the 9-11 game versus Buffalo; but not sure I even care to go to any more this season at this point. Hopefully they get their crap together soon, but with this coach's decision making, I doubt it.