Rethinking Stanley/Kaufusi and Jalen Ramsey draft deal

[gtalk12]

20 minutes ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

LT are always the priority. In addition, after seeing Ramsey's post game interview after SSS basically owned him and his lack of humility to that point - let's say - I'm not a fan. Ramsey's current ranking among defensive backs #95 - Shareece Wright #68.

We're good.

 

shh, you just used facts.

 

[Doomville]

i would still go stanley because a franchise LT is way more important than a franchise S. And if you look around the league, the top LTs you see are drafted early in the first round because they are rare and a huge part of an offense. Also, like rmc said, secondary is not even the biggest need on defense (well, not before jimmy got hurt), it's pass rusher.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Doomville

[FlocksGottaFeed]

10 minutes ago, gtalk12 said:

 

shh, you just used facts.

 

Gtalk, you're good at that, too. Appreciated.

[Cville-Raven]

6 hours ago, flynismo said:

Have you seen our OL play?

lol yeah, James hurst is worse than any backup defensive back in our secondary 

[RavensFanMania]

18 hours ago, rmw10 said:

I still would have gone Ramsey, but that's largely because he was my #1 (de facto after the Tunsil video) in that draft.  If we believed he was the best talent in the draft, I would have made the move.  I still think he's on his way to becoming a superstar.

With that being said, I'm more than happy with Ronnie as well.  Knowing how things played out with Monroe, Stanley obviously made a ton of sense.

My top players were 

Tunsil (before video)

Bosa

Ramsey

Stanley

 

at this point I'm very happy we got two very good lineman of the future in this draft and one that can play guard and tackle in Lewis.  I believe Stanley is going to be one of the better tackles in the game.  I also like the Kaufusi pick so I'm glad we have Stanley and Kaufusi and wouldn't trade the picks.

Edited October 18, 2016 by RavensFanMania

[PurpleCity5]

It's a deal breaker. Even if we do pick up Ramsey, what on Earth do we have at LT? You could look at LT in the 2nd round but pass rusher needed to be addressed very badly and Correa is a guy who the FO fell in love with. This OL has been pretty disappointing in pass protection, I don't like the idea of Jake Long or a late round pick at LT. 

I honestly think much of the struggle to the secondary has to do with the pass rush. You need a pass rush if you want to build a great defense. Pass Rusher is the biggest need on the team. No CB can cover for 5 seconds consecutively. It's a tough thing to do. I think we miss a guy of Pernell McPhee's caliber. We don't regret not matching his contract but we surely miss what he brought to this team. The Ravens tried hard in pushing Za'darius Smith as the next Pernell McPhee but that just has not come to fruition. I think Za'Darius looks very limited as a pass rusher, I haven't seem him do much moves out there to try to win at the point of attack. 

If there is anyone I would take, it would be Bosa, even over Ramsey. He would solve so much of our problems. He looks so much like McPhee IMO given just how he can destroy the run, rush the passer and do it from anywhere. We need that so bad on this team. Our secondary was ranked 3rd in the league prior to the Giants game, imagine what a pass rush would do for them. Not to mention that with Suggs injury, having Bosa out there would just relieve a potential disaster we'll have to deal with at pass rush. 

It's all a wash though and I love Stanley, but Bosa would have been a great pick here too. 

Edited October 18, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[JoeyFlex5]

Wait til Stanley comes back and see the difference.

 

/thread

[RavensDieHard21]

Stanley is really good from what we seen early on. Harbaugh is being smart by not rushing him out there. Ramsey would have been nice, but we had already lost KO and having Hurst as a LT is a train wreck. KC on the other hand seems to be the bad pick. No legit pass rushing moves and has nothing on Orr. Back up player so far. Would have rather taken a chance of alexander at that point.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

3 hours ago, Cville-Raven said:

lol yeah, James hurst is worse than if I had to bulk up and play LT on the NFL level

Fixed that for you

The sad thing is this is probably true

Edited October 18, 2016 by LosT_in_TranSlatioN

[PurpleCity5]

49 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Wait til Stanley comes back and see the difference.

 

/thread

Yeah, if we were to win at least one of those 3 games and Stanley kept playing well then I don't think people would be thinking much about it. Still, if we're talking about getting anyone outside of Stanley, then give me Bosa 

[Tru11]

5 hours ago, gtalk12 said:

why? do you see how bad our offensive line is? what would Ramsey do for us?

 

maybe if they kept KO then sure

Our o-line is partly bad because Stanley is missing games.

Already said its to early to tell but the more games he miss the more id be leaning towards the trade.

If he comes back next week and starts the rest of the season id have no issues whatsoever.
if he misses the rest of the season we might as well have kept monroe and made the trade.

so like i initially said for me it simply will be coming down to stanley being able to play or not and time will tell since its to early at this point.

 

 

[sflegend89]

5 hours ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

LT are always the priority. In addition, after seeing Ramsey's post game interview after SSS basically owned him and his lack of humility to that point - let's say - I'm not a fan. Ramsey's current ranking among defensive backs #95 - Shareece Wright #68.

We're good.

Those rankings are so off. If anyone thinks Wright is even in the same tier as Ramsey they don't know what they're watching.. and this is Ramsey as a rookie mind you. Plus SSS hardly owned him, Ramsey was like glue on everybody he covered and the only reason I didn't like what he had to say after the game is because his team lost.

Ramsey will be a top 10 corner in the near future with the potential to be the best at some point. Height, speed, long arms, tackles like a safety, high football IQ. Kid is the total package, thought he was the best player in the draft back then and I still do now.

For the record I'm happy with the Stanley pick, it is a premium position. Just thought we dropped the ball by not dealing the picks to get the #1 overall talent in the entire draft floating around just a few picks ahead of us. 

[Tru11]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Wait til Stanley comes back and see the difference.

 

/thread

we have been saying that the past 2 seasons with monroe as well lol.

lets hope stanley does come back sooner rather then later.

[sflegend89]

3 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

we have been saying that the past 2 seasons with monroe as well lol.

lets hope stanley does come back sooner rather then later.

Just our luck to take a player known for his durability in college and immediately be dealing with an injury when we're relying on him in pass pro.

It's a bad break but that's the nature of the game. Injuries in the NFL aren't a matter of if, but when. Hopefully he'll be back in a few weeks, we desperately need him.

[Maryland]

If we're playing the hindsight game, Ngakoue over KC is the first pick I change. The Stanley pick isn't even on my radar, since you're likely looking at Monroe and Hurst at LT for this season and possible the season after that, which is unacceptable. 

[BmoreBird22]

I wasn't high on Ramsey the corner, but I was very high on Ramsey the S.

If the Ravens had been able to pair Weddle with Ramsey, I think we'd be talking about an elite secondary. And while I wasn't a fan of him as a corner, he could have slid into the corner spot had Jimmy ever gotten injured. 

I realize what the line looks like without Stanley, but I think that was more a product of Hurst/not having Yanda. Honestly, though, you'd have to think that the FO would grab someone like Spriggs or Whitehair, probably Whitehair. Then you have the possibility of swinging Wagner to LT and Yanda to RT with Whitehair in at RG. I don't think you'd see a huge dropoff on the right side, if any, and the left side probably remains even. 

I love having Stanley, but I do agree with not being stingy on trades.

[JoeyFlex5]

Thinking now about our line if we took whitehair with a healthy Stanley. We would poo on the cowboys line by next year.

It just seems so typical of the ravens to have Stanley and Wagner playing at high levels but zuttah looking like Shipley out there, and once those 2 go down zuttah suddenly gets it together and plays decent. 

Why can't we put it all together... Ever...

[PurpleCity5]

59 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Thinking now about our line if we took whitehair with a healthy Stanley. We would poo on the cowboys line by next year.

It just seems so typical of the ravens to have Stanley and Wagner playing at high levels but zuttah looking like Shipley out there, and once those 2 go down zuttah suddenly gets it together and plays decent. 

Why can't we put it all together... Ever...

I thought Zuttah played really well last game. He did pretty well in the run game and pass blocking wise he did very well. I personally think he's been playing better now than the start of the season, but I surely hope he keeps up his play. I'm more concerned about Wagner who has not looked good recently. Lewis did not have a good game against the Giants. 

Edited October 18, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[Tru11]

zuttah does seem to improve.
he and urschel looked good.
with stanley , yanda and wagner we should be good for the rest of the season if they all remain healthy.

 

[flynismo]

Ramsey is NOT playing anywhere near as great as some of you guys think. In fact, so far, he's not even in the top 10 in the ROY if the season ended today.

[PurpleCity5]

13 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Ramsey is NOT playing anywhere near as great as some of you guys think. In fact, so far, he's not even in the top 10 in the ROY if the season ended today.

I don't think he's been as great as some says, it appears he's declined since playing us. That said we really could use him here as well. But I'd take Bosa over him. IMO That's kind of a no-brainier for me.

[flynismo]

6 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I don't think he's been as great as some says, it appears he's declined since playing us. That said we really could use him here as well. But I'd take Bosa over him. IMO That's kind of a no-brainier for me.

He played quite poorly before playing us as well. He was solid against us, but other than that, he has not done anything to write home about.

At this moment in time, Bosa is looking like a far better player, and fits a need for us too, so maybe we should change this to trading up for Bosa instead

Edited October 18, 2016 by flynismo

[FlocksGottaFeed]

17 hours ago, sflegend89 said:

Those rankings are so off. If anyone thinks Wright is even in the same tier as Ramsey they don't know what they're watching.. and this is Ramsey as a rookie mind you. Plus SSS hardly owned him, Ramsey was like glue on everybody he covered and the only reason I didn't like what he had to say after the game is because his team lost.

Ramsey will be a top 10 corner in the near future with the potential to be the best at some point. Height, speed, long arms, tackles like a safety, high football IQ. Kid is the total package, thought he was the best player in the draft back then and I still do now.

For the record I'm happy with the Stanley pick, it is a premium position. Just thought we dropped the ball by not dealing the picks to get the #1 overall talent in the entire draft floating around just a few picks ahead of us. 

Couldn't find the video where SSS broke-down the plays where he and Jalen matched-up (approx.), Steve won the battle consistently. Here's a video where SSS 2 biggest receptions came against the rookie. You only have to watch the 1st 5 seconds and pause. You'll see his fellow Florida State Alum calling him out for a blown coverage on a simple man-to-man match-up against SSS. It happened to him again on another big reception later in the game. The stats are solid. He has the potential to be that guy. but a lot has to happen before he gets there (no bad injuries, attitude adjustment, etc.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARkAtMR1PKw

Agreed. Jalen has potential but let's face it, the only reason Jalen's being mentioned in this thread is because he's not currently injured and Stanley is. Think about it.

If you're happy with the Stanley pick - just be that. There are some that deal in an ultra-reality (what ifs...?). That's cool when it doesn't involve a player injury. As if it's a good and acceptable opportunity/hall pass to apathetically, callously de-humanize a man as if he's a robot. They have families, lives and hopes far beyond football. It's sad that on any injury immediately these threads pop-up like circling vultures at a supermarket parking lot when somebody just accidentally dropped some fish. Like that saying goes: "If ifs and buts were candy and nuts..."

Sorry for rant sflegend89. You seem to be pretty informative poster and above this kind of thread. Just wish others (so-called fans) would think before they make a topic when one of our players is trying to rehab back into action. Just check and see how many appear magically on any injury report. So glad the players don't read this...I regress.

If we're going to have compassion for Jalen (performance-wise) because he's 'just' a rookie - why not support the rookie we already have in better ways (Stanley - Our Rookie) as he recovers? Just saying.

Edited October 18, 2016 by FlocksGottaFeed
injury report

[cobrajet]

On 10/17/2016 at 2:10 PM, rmcjacket23 said:

So Alex Lewis or James Hurst at LT sounds good to you?

If I were to rank the issues with this team, the secondary falls way, way, way below the offensive line.

The secondary isn't even the biggest concern on the defense by any stretch.

Seems like an overreaction to one game to me.

I agree. IMHO, our o-line was the biggest need. On defense, I feel we have a bigger need for a good edge rusher over a cornerback.

[cobrajet]

19 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Wait til Stanley comes back and see the difference.

 

/thread

100% agree!

[Tank 92]

18 hours ago, Tru11 said:

Our o-line is partly bad because Stanley is missing games.

Already said its to early to tell but the more games he miss the more id be leaning towards the trade.

If he comes back next week and starts the rest of the season id have no issues whatsoever.
if he misses the rest of the season we might as well have kept monroe and made the trade.

so like i initially said for me it simply will be coming down to stanley being able to play or not and time will tell since its to early at this point.

 

 

Monroe?  Monroe? You're not suggesting that Eugene would be playing football right now, are you?  Really?

As someone mentioned earlier, it was no brainer to go LT. There was no choice.

[BmoreBird22]

9 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Thinking now about our line if we took whitehair with a healthy Stanley. We would poo on the cowboys line by next year.

I would have loved for the Ravens to just load up on a single position in each draft. Identify the deepest and just load up on players from that position. 

@PurpleCity5 and I were talking about this, but I really love the strategy of the Bengals and the Vikings. In 2014, the Bengals had Leon Hall, Pacman Jones,  Terance Newman, and Dre Kirkpatrick. What did they do? They took a corner in the first.  Hell, this year with Kirkpatrick, Dennard, and Jones they took William Jackson III in the first. This year, the Vikings had Waynes, Munnerlyn, Newman, and Rhodes and what do they do? Take a corner in the second. Last year, the Vikings had Whitworth and Smith at T. What do they do? They took Ogbuei and Fisher with their first two picks. 

Of course, these two teams had a little bit of flexibility to do this because they were bad for so long and loaded up to have a talented roster and then just stocked on positions, but I wouldn't mind a few down years in a row if it meant that the Ravens would absolutely load up on certain positions and just have a loaded roster as those positions began to develop.

Another reason I love the idea is because it lets players develop at their own pace. Last year, if Waynes had played, I guarantee it would have stunted his growth because he was absolutely not ready. I think that's how you get a Morris Claiborne. However, because he was allowed to just play like 6 or 7 snaps a game, sparingly, he was allowed to adjust to the speed of the NFL and he's doing a lot better than I would have expected. Still some lumps, but much better than I anticipated. And even now, Treadwell has probably played like 10 snaps, but the Vikings are able to win without him and let him just develop.

Whether that were taking Ramsey in the first and Young in the fourth or taking Stanley and then Whitehair, I tend to think it would have been a much smarter strategy.

[RayRayRaven]

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 5:33 PM, January J said:

Stanley misses 3 games- we lose 3 in a row. He is very much needed. And he will only get better with time.

we won three when he was in but we weren't burnin down the house, squeekers

[GrimCoconut]

25 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I would have loved for the Ravens to just load up on a single position in each draft. Identify the deepest and just load up on players from that position. 

@PurpleCity5 and I were talking about this, but I really love the strategy of the Bengals and the Vikings. In 2014, the Bengals had Leon Hall, Pacman Jones,  Terance Newman, and Dre Kirkpatrick. What did they do? They took a corner in the first.  Hell, this year with Kirkpatrick, Dennard, and Jones they took William Jackson III in the first. This year, the Vikings had Waynes, Munnerlyn, Newman, and Rhodes and what do they do? Take a corner in the second. Last year, the Vikings had Whitworth and Smith at T. What do they do? They took Ogbuei and Fisher with their first two picks. 

Of course, these two teams had a little bit of flexibility to do this because they were bad for so long and loaded up to have a talented roster and then just stocked on positions, but I wouldn't mind a few down years in a row if it meant that the Ravens would absolutely load up on certain positions and just have a loaded roster as those positions began to develop.

Another reason I love the idea is because it lets players develop at their own pace. Last year, if Waynes had played, I guarantee it would have stunted his growth because he was absolutely not ready. I think that's how you get a Morris Claiborne. However, because he was allowed to just play like 6 or 7 snaps a game, sparingly, he was allowed to adjust to the speed of the NFL and he's doing a lot better than I would have expected. Still some lumps, but much better than I anticipated. And even now, Treadwell has probably played like 10 snaps, but the Vikings are able to win without him and let him just develop.

Whether that were taking Ramsey in the first and Young in the fourth or taking Stanley and then Whitehair, I tend to think it would have been a much smarter strategy.

Another example is how the Texans just re-upped Jackson as a FA and had Joseph under contract but decided to draft Kevin Johnson in the first and kept Joseph. That said, it doesn't always work because when you rob from Peter you have to pay Paul, and in this case you'd leave another position exposed that also needs help. I personally agree, however, that we should start double-dipping but I think we do that already as evidenced by Stanley and Lewis, Kafusi/Correa/Judon. Don't forget about Pitta and Dickson, too. We do this. It's just not extremely evident all the time. The only issue I see here with this strategy is you run the risk of overloading at a position of strength and making it so much a strength that you weaken other areas of your team. Of course, in the event of injuries you're set, but if there aren't injuries then people would be asking why we invested into a position of strength when we didn't need to do it and that these guys won't play. You know people would be saying that. 

Personally, I think you should do a bit of both--BPA and need. It just depends what the need is and then it depends on what the BPA is. Some positions you can go pure BPA all day and still fill out the roster, like CB. That's a position where you now need 3 or 4 solid CBs due to the emergence of WRs and the changing of the rules. You can also argue pass rusher as well--especially here.

[jdynamite]

Although I wanted Ramsey and drooled over him for all of last year, I couldn't imagine the current o-line combinations being all I had to look forward too. Unless Monroe whom is currently retired would have out of nowhere had a great year & remained healthy too ( sarcasm ). 

Stanley has looked good when he's played  . 

During the draft the move I questioned the most was trading back and not taking N.Spence, Cravens, M.Alexander or K.Fuller. I wanted any of those 4 before Correa. Especially after Myles jack was off the board.

None of made a huge impact as of yet so nothing can be said there.