[News] Late For Work 10/17: Terrell Suggs Has Torn Biceps, But Wants To Keep Playing

[surfdude]

Penalties are a sign of an over matched player and undisciplined. Can't get over how many penalties have been called in these 6 games. I say go young from here on out. On D Smith / Judon / Correa / Young & Pierce. Get the best shut down corner in the draft. 6 - 10 season is what I see , hope I'm wrong but just way too many things to fix at this point.

[Ravenshine]

Suggs is trying to be like Ray Lewis. Has a torn biceps but still wanna play to make it his last ride at a Super Bowl. LOL ?

Not. First off, unlike Ray, Suggs hasn't announced plans to retire. Furthermore, every player of every team when getting injured would prefer to play through the injury rather than be sidelined by it if it's at all possible they could do so. And every player on every team wants that SB ride...so no...it's not the same.

[BigUgly]

On Harbaugh as an HC - here's my thought and as a fan not an professional evaluator of talent as many seem to be. My issues with Harbaugh as an in game HC started back in 2012 when Cundiff missed the game tying FG agains the Pats in the playoff. It was always interesting to me that the local Baltimore media made excuses for Harbaugh and destroyed Cundiff for that miss.  As history writes it, Harbaugh was a Special Teams coordinator for the Eagles (nine seasons I think) so you would assume that he would have a pretty good handle on that aspect of the game. So why on earth would you rush your kicker out onto the field in (a) hostile territory, (b) with :10 sec on the play clock, (c) to tie the game in the playoffs at the end of regulation and most importantly - (d) WHY would you refuse to use your remaining timeout that you had to get everyone straight and relaxed before the kick???? What was Harbaugh going to do with those timeouts? Take them home with him to have dinner or perhaps save them for the 1st game of the following season? 

Everyone has their opinion of course and I understand people who defend Harbaugh (SB victory, an inordinate amount of injuries and arguable drafts over the last few years) but I would challenge you (and would welcome the debate) to make a case for Harbaugh being a good in game HC with an understanding of proper use of the clock, timeouts, challenges and an overall sense for the flow of the game. Week after week we have to endure questionable use of timeouts, clock management and understanding of the game situation. Those are all things that are specifically on the HC.

Finally, I'll leave with this - teams that get blown out week in and week out, year in and year out just do not have the talent to compete with the rest of the league (Browns, Jaguars, etc).  Teams that consistently win or lose in close games on a consistent basis usually have the talent to compete but if you have evaluate each game, I think you will find that it ultimately comes down to deficiencies, lack of competency and and overall poor in game coaching that results in a close loss or win that is substantially closer than it would be with another HC at the helm.  And that my friends is our beloved Ravens. 

I think Harbs is one of the best coaches in the NFL for 349 days of the year. He has created a winning culture where personal accountability matters, and attracts top coaching and free agent player talent (that we can afford to pay). As a special teams coach, he is limited in his ability to step in and make adjustments during the game and is heavily reliant on his hand-picked coaches to do so. As such, we may only judge him on his clock management, challenges, and pivotal decisions (4th down calls, etc.). By those metrics, he hasn't been very successful and recently has contributed to our losses.

I am more concerned with the inability of the high character / high IQ players and the elite coaching staff to avoid continually repeated mistakes with technique, alignment, execution, tempo and adjustments. Those shortfalls have cost us more than any poor in-game decisions by Harbs, I think.

[surfdude]

I had them 5 - 2 before the bye at the beginning of the season. Jets game is a MUST win then get healthy & work on things during the bye and hopefully come out a new team and beat Pitt. Stay tune ................. must beat the Jets.

[Ravenshine]

  51 minutes ago, ClarenceWurley said:

On Harbaugh as an HC - here's my thought and as a fan not an professional evaluator of talent as many seem to be. My issues with Harbaugh as an in game HC started back in 2012 when Cundiff missed the game tying FG agains the Pats in the playoff. It was always interesting to me that the local Baltimore media made excuses for Harbaugh and destroyed Cundiff for that miss.  As history writes it, Harbaugh was a Special Teams coordinator for the Eagles (nine seasons I think) so you would assume that he would have a pretty good handle on that aspect of the game. So why on earth would you rush your kicker out onto the field in (a) hostile territory, (b) with :10 sec on the play clock, (c) to tie the game in the playoffs at the end of regulation and most importantly - (d) WHY would you refuse to use your remaining timeout that you had to get everyone straight and relaxed before the kick???? What was Harbaugh going to do with those timeouts? Take them home with him to have dinner or perhaps save them for the 1st game of the following season? 

Everyone has their opinion of course and I understand people who defend Harbaugh (SB victory, an inordinate amount of injuries and arguable drafts over the last few years) but I would challenge you (and would welcome the debate) to make a case for Harbaugh being a good in game HC with an understanding of proper use of the clock, timeouts, challenges and an overall sense for the flow of the game. Week after week we have to endure questionable use of timeouts, clock management and understanding of the game situation. Those are all things that are specifically on the HC.

Finally, I'll leave with this - teams that get blown out week in and week out, year in and year out just do not have the talent to compete with the rest of the league (Browns, Jaguars, etc).  Teams that consistently win or lose in close games on a consistent basis usually have the talent to compete but if you have evaluate each game, I think you will find that it ultimately comes down to deficiencies, lack of competency and and overall poor in game coaching that results in a close loss or win that is substantially closer than it would be with another HC at the helm.  And that my friends is our beloved Ravens. 

I think Harbs is one of the best coaches in the NFL for 349 days of the year. He has created a winning culture where personal accountability matters, and attracts top coaching and free agent player talent (that we can afford to pay). As a special teams coach, he is limited in his ability to step in and make adjustments during the game and is heavily reliant on his hand-picked coaches to do so. As such, we may only judge him on his clock management, challenges, and pivotal decisions (4th down calls, etc.). By those metrics, he hasn't been very successful and recently has contributed to our losses.

I am more concerned with the inability of the high character / high IQ players and the elite coaching staff to avoid continually repeated mistakes with technique, alignment, execution, tempo and adjustments. Those shortfalls have cost us more than any poor in-game decisions by Harbs, I think.

Yeah, the responsibility falls on everyone. For example...penalties are done by the players mistakes or ref mistakes. Play calls would be the coaches, and the actual execution of: both coaches and players (teaching and follow through) so that's a hazy area as to who was at fault in every given play. And what about rookies? They tend to make mistakes in beginning so are we supposed to not play the rookies? Of course not.

And Harbs made aggressive calls as he has confidence in his players being able to make the play. It's not really negative for him to have belief in his players...it's a good thing. It shows confidence, support all around. It's when that support begins to break down and coaches lack confidence in their players that fans should be worried.

Fact of the matter is...if that 4-1 play worked, and we pulled off a win...we would not even be talking about this.

Hey, the offense improved. That means they are progressing even though the W column didn't reflect it, yet we had more of a run game, some deep receptions and more endzone completions than previous games. This is because they are trying...putting in effort. It wasn't good enough to W but it wasn't digressing from the previous week either. That's a sign of good coaching to shake things up and get an improvement. Plus the injuries, that is, lack of having so many, may have also given us the win.

NFL coaching isn't as easy as it may seem just by watching it on TV ?

[hen826957]

  2 hours ago, hen826957 said:

Suggs is trying to be like Ray Lewis. Has a torn biceps but still wanna play to make it his last ride at a Super Bowl. LOL ?

Not. First off, unlike Ray, Suggs hasn't announced plans to retire. Furthermore, every player of every team when getting injured would prefer to play through the injury rather than be sidelined by it if it's at all possible they could do so. And every player on every team wants that SB ride...so no...it's not the same.

Not the same but similar ?

[ClarenceWurley]

21 minutes ago, Ravenshine said:

Yeah, the responsibility falls on everyone. For example...penalties are done by the players mistakes or ref mistakes. Play calls would be the coaches, and the actual execution of: both coaches and players (teaching and follow through) so that's a hazy area as to who was at fault in every given play. And what about rookies? They tend to make mistakes in beginning so are we supposed to not play the rookies? Of course not.

And Harbs made aggressive calls as he has confidence in his players being able to make the play. It's not really negative for him to have belief in his players...it's a good thing. It shows confidence, support all around. It's when that support begins to break down and coaches lack confidence in their players that fans should be worried.

Fact of the matter is...if that 4-1 play worked, and we pulled off a win...we would not even be talking about this.

Hey, the offense improved. That means they are progressing even though the W column didn't reflect it, yet we had more of a run game, some deep receptions and more endzone completions than previous games. This is because they are trying...putting in effort. It wasn't good enough to W but it wasn't digressing from the previous week either. That's a sign of good coaching to shake things up and get an improvement. Plus the injuries, that is, lack of having so many, may have also given us the win.

NFL coaching isn't as easy as it may seem just by watching it on TV ?

Agreed that the responsibility is on everyone but just like the rest of us you are expected to do your job each day when you come to work and Harbaugh's job is the HC. That means during the game he is responsible for game management/flow, strategic decisions, management of tools like timeouts, challenges. And as the HC his job is also to impose his well and leadership when necessary to impact the adjustments the coaching staff makes (one thing we are very poor at over the years) and let an OC/DC/ etc know when they are being stubborn with playcalling and change it.  That's not being overbearing - it's being a leader which is what he is paid to do.  No way that OBJ should have single coverage with no cushion from a rookie even if the safety is rolling with support coverage and they did that time and time again.  After the first long TD, Harbaugh needs to step in and say make someone else beat us. Double him. Whatever it takes.  

I never claimed it was easy but I don't get paid millions of dollars to coach in the NFL and he does.  Everyone loses and I don't expect the Ravens to win every Sunday like some do but I hate to see them lose because of poor decisions year in and year out. 

[Ravenshine]

  49 minutes ago, Ravenshine said:

  2 hours ago, hen826957 said:

Suggs is trying to be like Ray Lewis. Has a torn biceps but still wanna play to make it his last ride at a Super Bowl. LOL ?

Not. First off, unlike Ray, Suggs hasn't announced plans to retire. Furthermore, every player of every team when getting injured would prefer to play through the injury rather than be sidelined by it if it's at all possible they could do so. And every player on every team wants that SB ride...so no...it's not the same.

Not the same but similar ?

Yeah, as in 'similar with every NFL player' ?

[The Greek]

penalties and the return of the real dean pees have cost us games. pees has no creativity to disguise blitzes and struggles to make adjustments when needed. must beat the jets and we need to get it together over the bye week.

[The Greek]

to have such a collapse on defense because 1 player(jimmy smith) exits the game is inexcusable.

[Raven1995]

to have such a collapse on defense because 1 player(jimmy smith) exits the game is inexcusable.

Inexcusable for Who, Harbaugh Or Ozzie?

[drillem]

  16 minutes ago, The Greek said:

to have such a collapse on defense because 1 player(jimmy smith) exits the game is inexcusable.

Inexcusable for Who, Harbaugh Or Ozzie?

both

[drillem]

  4 hours ago, NorthDakotaRaven said:

Hate to say it, but I am done planning my Sunday around football. Fall is fleeting in the upper midwest and there are too many other things I would rather do than watch these guys give up the game week after week.

Just means you won't be there when they turn the corner and go 13-3.  Well, I mean, if they did, you'd miss it. 

you're a real dreamer, huh?

[Ravenshine]

  45 minutes ago, Ravenshine said:

Yeah, the responsibility falls on everyone. For example...penalties are done by the players mistakes or ref mistakes. Play calls would be the coaches, and the actual execution of: both coaches and players (teaching and follow through) so that's a hazy area as to who was at fault in every given play. And what about rookies? They tend to make mistakes in beginning so are we supposed to not play the rookies? Of course not.

And Harbs made aggressive calls as he has confidence in his players being able to make the play. It's not really negative for him to have belief in his players...it's a good thing. It shows confidence, support all around. It's when that support begins to break down and coaches lack confidence in their players that fans should be worried.

Fact of the matter is...if that 4-1 play worked, and we pulled off a win...we would not even be talking about this.

Hey, the offense improved. That means they are progressing even though the W column didn't reflect it, yet we had more of a run game, some deep receptions and more endzone completions than previous games. This is because they are trying...putting in effort. It wasn't good enough to W but it wasn't digressing from the previous week either. That's a sign of good coaching to shake things up and get an improvement. Plus the injuries, that is, lack of having so many, may have also given us the win.

NFL coaching isn't as easy as it may seem just by watching it on TV ?

Agreed that the responsibility is on everyone but just like the rest of us you are expected to do your job each day when you come to work and Harbaugh's job is the HC. That means during the game he is responsible for game management/flow, strategic decisions, management of tools like timeouts, challenges. And as the HC his job is also to impose his well and leadership when necessary to impact the adjustments the coaching staff makes (one thing we are very poor at over the years) and let an OC/DC/ etc know when they are being stubborn with playcalling and change it.  That's not being overbearing - it's being a leader which is what he is paid to do.  No way that OBJ should have single coverage with no cushion from a rookie even if the safety is rolling with support coverage and they did that time and time again.  After the first long TD, Harbaugh needs to step in and say make someone else beat us. Double him. Whatever it takes.  

I never claimed it was easy but I don't get paid millions of dollars to coach in the NFL and he does.  Everyone loses and I don't expect the Ravens to win every Sunday like some do but I hate to see them lose because of poor decisions year in and year out. 

There has been plenty of good decisions made too over the years...playoffs...a SB. But people watching tend to forget the good and focus on the bad when losing, and vice verse. I do the opposite. I am critical of the team when up if I see they can still improve, and positive on the team when down if feel they need support to get going again. To me that's more logical. Pouring gasoline on a fire never helps anything, nor does resting on laurels when up.

And when we were 3-0 I don't think the team was resting on laurels so much, but I saw a lopsided difference between offense vs defense. But...I see them address those issues now, and what more can I ask of them? I'm sure they WANT to win every game, I'm sure they practice to win, play to win. If winning were so easy we'd have teams repeat SB victories year after year. But guess what, every year a new team wins SB. Last year the Panthers were THE hottest team (according to perceptions) this year ...not so much. Why do some Ravens fans think only their team has troubles?

All NFL teams have them and we obviously have many to address this year, and last year. But not every year or every week. This is a very changeable profession...it's not like a typical 9-5 job where you have a handbook to follow. It's a weekly contest in a very competitive arena. Like I said...not as easy as it looks on TV. Lots of variables come into play. Sure we need to play better, a lot better really. But I don't see it as so easy to summarize where the blame lies. Fix the Oline (which looked better) the deep passes which are riskier plays anyway...run game improving...defense is not bad despite their coming under the lens this week...hey CJ out Jimmy Smith went out.

But all in all I think supporting the Ravens at this point is much better than wanting to get rid of coaches, players...then you get new people in and think it will be so easy to win then? Nah, this is the NFL...it's not so easy to do anything over and over year after year. The teams that do the best are the ones who keep their staff intact not have a revolving door of coaches and players.

So, stick with the team and give them credit, as hard as it may be to do when we just lost. That's what I do anyway. I doubt I'm the only one who feels this way. I may be a minority opinion on this, but I still suspect there's some other fans reading this who'd rather see more positivity ATM then all this negativity...regardless I can still be positive anyway with or without other fans joining in and without drinking purple koolaid lol. That koolaid reference is just an excuse to gripe about everything under the sun. ??? like..."I don't drink the koolaid I tell it like it is". Um...yeah right lol. Then go coach your winning NFL team already lol (not you personally Clarence but general 'you' here). Because you know everything and Harbs knows nothing about football. It's amazing he made the playoffs all these years, and a SB being so ignorant as he is about football. Must have been the koolaid.

[johnnypurple]

The team was a sloppy mess in 2012 when they won a SB. Matter of fact that's a thing w the Ravens. They got hot and Joe played like a stud in the playoffs that year, but were they a "Good" team, I'm not sure. They were a winning team that year when it mattered.
Having said that, however, the injuries and penalties and lack of play makers at a bunch of skill positions doesn't bode well for this team. Every game is huge as it always is gotta start w a WIN Sunday...
Does anyone think Joe has past his prime? He doesn't look the same to me in terms of his overall play or confidence.

[Ravenshine]

Well, just to put it in perspective. Ppl like to use New England as example of good coaching, winning team. But, even that being so, it took then 10 years to get one Super Bowl (2005) and the next (2015). So 10 years of not winning the SB by obviously making enough mistakes to lose 10 years.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Ravenshine
Date correction

[Shaky End of the Quarter]

We likely will be picking from 10th to 15th in the Draft. Need an impact player up front on D.

lol. How about top 5! 10th to 15th was if we had a decent year.

[Rav'n Maniac]

The team was a sloppy mess in 2012 when they won a SB. Matter of fact that's a thing w the Ravens. They got hot and Joe played like a stud in the playoffs that year, but were they a "Good" team, I'm not sure. They were a winning team that year when it mattered.
Having said that, however, the injuries and penalties and lack of play makers at a bunch of skill positions doesn't bode well for this team. Every game is huge as it always is gotta start w a WIN Sunday...
Does anyone think Joe has past his prime? He doesn't look the same to me in terms of his overall play or confidence.

I think it's more frustration than anything else. He has little pass protection which forces him to rush his throws or throw from a awkward position.

In addition, he is being dropped on virtually every pass play. That many hits will take a toll on his body as well as his psyche.

Then when he is able to make a good play downfield and get a first down, it gets called back for a lame penalty all too often.

It's definitely frustration.

[BigUgly]

  15 hours ago, johnnypurple said:

The team was a sloppy mess in 2012 when they won a SB. Matter of fact that's a thing w the Ravens. They got hot and Joe played like a stud in the playoffs that year, but were they a "Good" team, I'm not sure. They were a winning team that year when it mattered.
Having said that, however, the injuries and penalties and lack of play makers at a bunch of skill positions doesn't bode well for this team. Every game is huge as it always is gotta start w a WIN Sunday...
Does anyone think Joe has past his prime? He doesn't look the same to me in terms of his overall play or confidence.

I think it's more frustration than anything else. He has little pass protection which forces him to rush his throws or throw from a awkward position.

In addition, he is being dropped on virtually every pass play. That many hits will take a toll on his body as well as his psyche.

Then when he is able to make a good play downfield and get a first down, it gets called back for a lame penalty all too often.

It's definitely frustration.

I think the issue has to do with Joe being put in the Shotgun for the majority of his snaps. Compare that with the offense under Kubiak, where he was under center far more often and was more successful.

Not only did it provide the threat of a running game to open up play action and keep pass rushers honest, it allowed the Ravens to roll protection or have Joe bootleg to buy time against a pass rush. It also helped Joe's mechanics, making it less likely that he'd throw flat-footed / off of his back foot.

Against the Giants, he was under center for the first quarter and a half, then went predominantly to the shotgun after that. The results were predictable.

[Crusader]

Its time to start a replacement. Too bad their not on the team yet. Thanks Ozy.

[Crusader]

Brad Jackson is the only sports analyst the will tell it straight to the fans. All the other have to watch what they say for fear of retribution from this organization, John H does not handle criticism and expect attacks against Brad and possible of pushing him off the air. Remember what happen with the training camps when John got here. The so called mutiny. The "dog house" If John tried to be humble he would explode like a cartoon character. I do believe John when he says we have some of the players but their not being taught.

[billiejean]

Brad Jackson is the only sports analyst the will tell it straight to the fans. All the other have to watch what they say for fear of retribution from this organization, John H does not handle criticism and expect attacks against Brad and possible of pushing him off the air. Remember what happen with the training camps when John got here. The so called mutiny. The "dog house" If John tried to be humble he would explode like a cartoon character. I do believe John when he says we have some of the players but their not being taught.

The problem with John and Ive said this amongst friends for years now is that he has the exact same temperament as his brother, but he tries to hide it at all costs. There is nothing wrong with that temperment as they have both been successful in their careers. The difference between them is that Jim knows he acts like a jerk and is not afraid for people to see that side of him, but John tries to hide it and it is only seen from the public when the chips are down (or leaked as in the mutiny situation). And this almost two faced personality becomes insidious.

[Dorota]

On 17. 10. 2016 at 6:25 PM, 81Jimmy said:

I agree with the penalties and not to blame Young. Missing pressure is to be blamed above. I am not sure Stanley would fix the problem. I think o-line is out of sync in pass protection. And this will take a few games and also time Joe feels comfortable and gains confidence on it. I rather expect painful next game - hopefully it will be enough. See if Bye can help to recover.

Oh, how right you were! Tavon has had a solid game again.

And watching yesterday was downright painful. I'm not sure what the Ravens need to do to be able to competitive this year. Too many things to even list. But at least get the OL fixed, or get Flacco playing in full body armor, because he's not going to live out the year with the protection he's been getting. Sure, he's playing badly, and inconsistently, and throwing off the mark even when there is no pressure. Hope the bye week is long enough to get Stanley and Yanda back and long enough to get Flacco out of the habit of playing scared.