RSR Article on Ravens

[flynismo]

40 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

and please dont give me the sergio staircase crap. He was a bust waiting to happen regardless. Super overrated. Average bend..i called him a poor mans whitney merciulis and he isnt event that great.

Oh well, that settles it then. Sami says he's going to be a bust, so that's as good as done.

Anyone can pick out 1st round talents that turn out to be good. How's your record in later rounds? I've made mock drafts predicting that we take guys that most people never even heard the name, or were vehemently against taking. Bernard Pierce? Everyone said no, we already have Rice. Chykie Brown? Everyone said "Who?"  Asa Jackson? See Chykie Brown. Marshall Yanda (I had us taking him in the 2nd round)? He's an OG, we can get better value in the 5th or sixth rounds, people said.

Sure, most of those picks didn't turn out great, but the point is, identifying and rating talent after the first 40-50 obvious players depends on far more than simply identifying talent, those guys will be heavily reliant on many factors outside of their control for them to succeed.

Seriously, nobody cares about your draft board, or mine. Don't pretend that you can do the job better than they do.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Oh, I can play this game too. 2011 I wanted Cameron Jordan, who's also a beast, but was happy with Jimmy.. Still am.  2012 I wanted both Osemele and Alshon Jeffery, also angry at the Upshaw pick but understood why we made it. 2013 I was an Arthur Brown advocate, got that wrong. 2014 I wanted Zack Martin, we got screwed over by the Cowboys on that and even though I hated the CJ pick I said he'd be a good player(hated it cause I thought he wouldn't be a need). I wanted Phillip Dorsett (though I liked Preston Smith) who honestly isn't being used correctly, and this past season I wanted Myles Jack but from the beggining was very high on Ronnie Stanley.

 

I didn't really seriously follow the draft until 2011 so you got me there. But in all honesty. I would've never thought of drafting Brandon Williams in the third. I thought that was a terrible pick. I thought Crockett Gillmore was a horrible pick, overperformed. I thought Alex Lewis was a bad pick at first. Wrong there, he's looked good for a rookie. I thought that Pernell McPhee was going to amount to nothing: wrong. I thought Buck Allen would be a starting nfl RB: wrong. I thought Nick Boyle wouldn't do crap: Wrong, he's our best route running TE and honestly if Crockett goes down(which he'd be prone to doing) we get him back soon and get a solid player. 

 

I was calling to the masses for Sterling Shepard and he's turned out good. I was also a fan of Whitehair. Good. I wanted Sheldon Day. He's been good. 

 

I can play it too. But I'd make a TERRIBLE GM. 

[OUravensfan]

42 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Believe me, I think there are a lot of knowledgeable people here. A lot. But not a single one of us belongs anywhere near the keys of this car.

Here's a great example of why. Me as the forum scout? Well, I did write this article for BR back in the day:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/153735-draft-day-disasters-2009s-top-5-draft-day-busts

I'd say that turned out to be quite good.

Then a couple years later, I'm opining that Mike Adams should be our top pick as the LT of our future. How's that for a follow up?

These guys make big money, because they are flat out better us at their jobs than we could hope to be.

That won't stop us from pouncing on their every mistake though :/

Understand completely, very humble, but you're supposed to take that and run with it lol

[FlocksGottaFeed]

9 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

This meme is so on point!  

I also agree with the questions in the article....."Who are the Baltimore Ravens and what kind of team are they?"  The article even mentioned the dreaded "I" word..."IDENTITY" and the Ravens lack thereof.  I can remember when myself and a few other fans mentioned this lack of "Identity" in here a few months back.  Our views about this were quickly dismissed and cats insisted that the Ravens didn't need an identity (of being a running or passing team etc.) to win football games.  Really?  In my Dr. Phil voice; "How's that working for ya?"

My opinion is that the FO and coaching staff seem to be really trying their best (to no avail) to make this team into what they clearly are not....a quick strike, spread'em out 3-5 wide, high octane offense to accommodate Joe Flacco's huge arm. This is a passing league....I get it!  But you also have to have the personnel for that.  Joe functions best by utilizing a strong and physical rushing attack, TE's and playaction.  I also believe that he can utilize the Gun formations effectively as a change of pace.  I miss the days of our "3-headed" monster in our rushing attack!  I miss the days of ground and pounding our opponents into submission while we control the clock.

There's an old African proverb that states; "Be who you is cause you can't be who you ain't!"  The Ravens need to take that to heart.

GO RAVENS!!

The proverb aside (spoken in no African language ever spoken - correct me if I'm wrong, but who said that? Really.)

I agree with most of what you've stated 'identity' wise. I was definitely one of those fans who mentioned this weeks ago. It seems someone at RSR has been trolling to find subject matter here. It's cool.

I don't think that old version of the Ravens 'Smash Mouth - Black and Blue - 3 headed Monster Attack' will ever resurface again because the league has changed to effectively minimize the ultra-aggressive play that would normally compliment those schemes.

No, we haven't formed a new identity yet, but it will have to be a 'new' identity not the old. My hope is that we look at our talent and what they do best and just scheme to the players we have and...and....wait on it...Eureka!!!! A new identity is formed.

Edited October 13, 2016 by FlocksGottaFeed
typo RSR

[arnie_uk]

56 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Believe me, I think there are a lot of knowledgeable people here. A lot. But not a single one of us belongs anywhere near the keys of this car.

Here's a great example of why. Me as the forum scout? Well, I did write this article for BR back in the day:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/153735-draft-day-disasters-2009s-top-5-draft-day-busts

I'd say that turned out to be quite good.

Then a couple years later, I'm opining that Mike Adams should be our top pick as the LT of our future. How's that for a follow up?

These guys make big money, because they are flat out better us at their jobs than we could hope to be.

That won't stop us from pouncing on their every mistake though :/

Lmao, i remember your mike Adams love. We almost came to blows on it a times

[Militant X 1]

1 hour ago, OUravensfan said:

Who are they? @Filmstudy for the film breakdowns and @callahan09 for the analytics? And @flynismo and @JoeyFlex5 for the scouting? And @rmcjacket23 for rationality and big picture focus and @Militant X 1 for reality checks?

 

54 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Believe me, I think there are a lot of knowledgeable people here. A lot. But not a single one of us belongs anywhere near the keys of this car.

Here's a great example of why. Me as the forum scout? Well, I did write this article for BR back in the day:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/153735-draft-day-disasters-2009s-top-5-draft-day-busts

I'd say that turned out to be quite good.

Then a couple years later, I'm opining that Mike Adams should be our top pick as the LT of our future. How's that for a follow up?

These guys make big money, because they are flat out better us at their jobs than we could hope to be.

That won't stop us from pouncing on their every mistake though :/

Umm...speak for yourself Fly!  The moment that I heard Joe's interview after that Redskins loss where he mentioned that the offense was "embarrassing," I told my friends that when your franchise QB comes out and says something like that publicly...the O.C. has to go!  And what do you know?  Trestman got the boot hours later.  So, give me the keys man, I'm going for a spin! 

[ravensdfan]

15 hours ago, Sami84 said:

we're a middle of the pack team thats trending downwards. Also, when was it the last time we won a game by more than 6 points? how old were you when it happened. Why are we actually awful to watch? We don't play good football. 2014 btw was the only time i said we'd make the post season out of all so far. We had a well balanced side and suggs doom mcphee, ngata, jernigan, williams etc was the reason why. I also heralded the Steve smith signing..

 

until this team can show it can handle injury adversity, it's not a good team nor is it a well coached team. It certaintly is not a FO i'd want to handle my draft lol

January 3rd 2015. Playoffs.

September 11, 2014. September 28, 2014. October 12, 2014.October 19, 2014.November 9, 2014.November 24, 2014.December 7, 2014.December 14,2014.December 28,2014.

So methinks you do exaggerate quite a bit. You'll note that is the year of Kubiak which pretty much proves everything you said incorrect & that our success depends on our ability to land an above average OC.

Edited October 14, 2016 by ravensdfan

[flynismo]

23 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

Lmao, i remember your mike Adams love. We almost came to blows on it a times

haha, yeah pretty sure those arguments were the reason we now have the warning "No death threats" in each game recap thread

[flynismo]

23 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

Umm...speak for yourself Fly!  The moment that I heard Joe's interview after that Redskins loss where he mentioned that the offense was "embarrassing," I told my friends that when your franchise QB comes out and says something like that publicly...the O.C. has to go!  And what do you know?  Trestman got the boot hours later.  So, give me the keys man, I'm going for a spin! 

Speaking of...how ya liking the Benz so far (the one in the car thread a while back)? We need to revive that thread!

Edited October 13, 2016 by flynismo

[gtalk12]

lol talk about a ball of positivity....Flacco being great or trash does not change how horrible the injury bug was for us last year. Not to mention the year before how well we played IN the playoffs, considering ALL the issues we had on defense and STILL brought it to the SB champs...we had an opportunity there...trending downwards...lol

[Militant X 1]

1 hour ago, flynismo said:

Speaking of...how ya liking the Benz so far (the one in the car thread a while back)? We need to revive that thread!

Aw man!  As Hurricane Matthew was heading out to sea, portions of its winds and rain hit my area causing flash flooding.  So my Benz got some flood damage over the weekend.  My insurance company is on top of it now.  It's at the Mercedes dealership and there is the "possibility" that my insurance company may total it out!  If so, I'll replace it with another one but thanks for asking bro. 

Edited October 14, 2016 by Militant X 1

[usmccharles]

I'm shocked people still try to debate with Sami... 

[OUravensfan]

6 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I'm shocked people still try to debate with Sami... 

I'm shocked Bengal fans think Dalton is better than Flacco and that this opinion is widely held by all fan bases 

[Militant X 1]

6 hours ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

The proverb aside (spoken in no African language ever spoken - correct me if I'm wrong, but who said that? Really.)

I agree with most of what you've stated 'identity' wise. I was definitely one of those fans who mentioned this weeks ago. It seems someone at RSR has been trolling to find subject matter here. It's cool.

I don't think that old version of the Ravens 'Smash Mouth - Black and Blue - 3 headed Monster Attack' will ever resurface again because the league has changed to effectively minimize the ultra-aggressive play that would normally compliment those schemes.

No, we haven't formed a new identity yet, but it will have to be a 'new' identity not the old. My hope is that we look at our talent and what they do best and just scheme to the players we have and...and....wait on it...Eureka!!!! A new identity is formed.

You are wrong!  

An African friend of mine that served with me in the military nearly 30 years ago shared this proverb from his country with me and a few colleagues of ours.  I just never forgot it over the years and quote it often.  He said that it basically states "Be who you is cause you can't be who you ain't".  It speaks to being true to who you are and not trying to imitate someone else.  It's simple actually and very appropriate in the context that I used it...for the Ravens offense.

[ravefan52]

This is a very flawed article.

But I'll say I think the biggest reasons for the teams struggles has been mediocre drafting and it's tendancy to rely too much on old players. Almost all the best players the last few years have been at least 30+. These players are much more likely to get injured or have their physical skills diminish quickly and we've seen the results of it. You can't complain or act surprised when your 32 and 34 year old pass rushing duo (Who you pay a ton of money) suffer serious injuries and can't get pressure anymore. Or when a 35 year old tight end or 36 year old receiver, who you rely on to be your top two targets, tear their Achilles. Side note, but the Watson signing is probably my least favorite Ozzie move ever.

Part of the reason they've had to rely on them is because the influx of young talent through the draft has been underwhelming as a whole lately. Probably an average amount of busts, but even the good ones have just taken awhile to develop. Ignoring CB and WR has been a huge mistake. And losing guys like McPhee and KO while you have a lot of money tied up to players not contributing makes it harder. Last draft was a good start (Correa was the only player I didn't like) but some great young players is definitely still needed to turn the Ravens around.

[Maryland]

23 minutes ago, ravefan52 said:

This is a very flawed article.

But I'll say I think the biggest reasons for the teams struggles has been mediocre drafting and it's tendancy to rely too much on old players. Almost all the best players the last few years have been at least 30+. These players are much more likely to get injured or have their physical skills diminish quickly and we've seen the results of it. You can't complain or act surprised when your 32 and 34 year old pass rushing duo (Who you pay a ton of money) suffer serious injuries and can't get pressure anymore. Or when a 35 year old tight end or 36 year old receiver, who you rely on to be your top two targets, tear their Achilles. Side note, but the Watson signing is probably my least favorite Ozzie move ever.

Part of the reason they've had to rely on them is because the influx of young talent through the draft has been underwhelming as a whole lately. Probably an average amount of busts, but even the good ones have just taken awhile to develop. Ignoring CB and WR has been a huge mistake. And losing guys like McPhee and KO while you have a lot of money tied up to players not contributing makes it harder. Last draft was a good start (Correa was the only player I didn't like) but some great young players is definitely still needed to turn the Ravens around.

Agreed. If I was going to pick a bone with this organization, the first place I'd go is our FO. Coaching, QB play, and other misc. factors are all secondary concerns compared to how many early and mid-round picked we've missed over the past 5 years or so, and how many long-term contracts have disappointed. Granted, some of the draft and contract disappointments are due to unforeseeable injury, but others are due to poor scouting and/or drafting players who don't fit our system. When you miss on draft picks and waste a lot of cap on players who are injured or underperforming, you're going to have a weaker roster. 

If you want to win in a salary-capped league, you have to draft better than everyone else and make every contract extension count. We've drafted alright, getting some nice players here and there, but we could be doing better, especially in rounds 1 through 3. We haven't drafted any major impact players in quite awhile--guys you have to franchise tag because they're too good to lose. There is a barbell-effect going on with our age distribution because a lot of those players who should be in the final years of their contract as major contributors aren't here. Ideally, your roster is filled with starters on rookie deals, but that's not really the case with us; we have a lot of old veterans filling in the roster roles, hence why our average age is pretty high compared to the rest of the league. 

Simply put, our scouting needs to improve, and we need to have better luck with our contract extensions. 

[kiwi_raven]

all i know is that the ravens right now are just struggling so badly on offense that its like watching pop warner football, you get excited every time they make a positive play.

Our woes have been a combination of things, from play calling, offensive line play, dropped catches and a lack of heart. Are these things going to change? We hope so with the change of OC, so maybe we will run a better game plan, But our O Line is still shaky at best which gives us trouble running the ball and giving our QB time for his reads and for our WR's to get open. As for lack of heart, who knows what we need to fix it, just watch our players when they go from a huddle into their positions for the next play, they just dont look energetic or focused.

As far as who we are as a team I really think of us as a shield with spikes attached, yeah we can defend all day, but eventully your shield is mangled and lets through attacks you could stop when it was shiny, but its not a weapon, you have limited amount of attacking when all you have is a couple of spikes.

[jboy19]

14 hours ago, Sami84 said:

and please dont give me the sergio staircase crap. He was a bust waiting to happen regardless. Super overrated. Average bend..i called him a poor mans whitney merciulis and he isnt event that great.

I know this comment came out 14 hours ago, but you're telling us that Sergio Kindle was a poor man's Whitney Mercilus even though Mercilus came out 2 years after Kindle. Im sure I'm probably not the first person to call you out on this. But you should feel bad for trying to lord over everybody with your "insight" which I guarantee most of us don't believe anyway. 

Edited October 14, 2016 by jboy19

[flynismo]

13 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

I know this comment came out 14 hours ago, but you're telling us that Sergio Kindle was a poor man's Whitney Mercilus even though Mercilus came out 2 years after Kindle. Im sure I'm probably not the first person to call you out on this. But you should feel bad for trying to lord over everybody with your "insight" which I guarantee most of us don't believe anyway. 

By "insight", he means "hindsight", that's why he knows so much :/

[rmcjacket23]

7 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I'm shocked people still try to debate with Sami... 

Its not really a debate... its him expressing his baseless opinion with no facts whatsoever, typically involving some sort of hindsight analysis, followed by a rebuttal providing actual real-world information and facts, followed by Sami running off on some separate tangent having nothing to do with the original discussion.

Rinse, repeat. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Its not really a debate... its him expressing his baseless opinion with no facts whatsoever, typically involving some sort of hindsight analysis, followed by a rebuttal providing actual real-world information and facts, followed by Sami running off on some separate tangent having nothing to do with the original discussion.

Rinse, repeat. 

Right - like shampoo.

Which is supposed to get things out of your hair. Why isnt it working?!?!?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

16 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

Gotcha!  Great point! 

I really believe that the core of our identity is to run the football.  And our inability to do so or to go away from it when it is clearly working (as we did against the Redskins) just for the sake of throwing the ball just to be throwing it leads to a horrendous showing for the offense.  Now, that doesn't mean that we don't throw the ball but I'd like to see how our offense does if it leans a little more heavily towards pounding the rock and then passing or running play action off of that.  

I agree.

I dont think your "identity" and "what you do a majority of the time" have to be the same thing. I think we can have a physical, running identity which will be what we do to set the tone, what we come back to close out games, or when we need to get something going... 

I do think we need that. From the OL, to the WRs, to Joe and and the defense. Joe's better when he can take that early PA shot down the field and connect bc we've set it up by pounding the ball early. It gets him fired up, confident, and rolling. Our backs need to be fed to get into rhythm. Our lineman tend to play better when they can be the aggressor early, move forward off the snap early and win that early mental battle.

Even a guy like SSS, I think benefits when he can use blocking on the perimeter as an excuse to hit a CB, S, or even LB early and get in their head. It gives him something to chirp about and start winning that psychological battle. Then he can ice the cake with his route running and physicality after the catch.

 

And our D thrives when the offense can get on that early spirit crushing, 8 minute drive where we pick up 6-7 first downs going 75 yards and punch in the score. They can jump out, be aggressive and just get after it. Force that 3 and out and go.

 

But, again... i dont think that means we need to be a "run first" or "run most" team. But, i do agree we need to establish and stick with the run and the physicality for literally everything to operate the way its supposed to.

My point is simply.... i think literally everyone here - from the coaching staff, to the players, to the FO, to the fans  recognize this. I think Trestman was the only one who didnt understand it. And hes gone. Bc of that, Im not worried. I think this week will resemble Ravens football. "Balanced" (by todays standards), aggressive, big play football.

[Sami84]

15 hours ago, flynismo said:

Oh well, that settles it then. Sami says he's going to be a bust, so that's as good as done.

Anyone can pick out 1st round talents that turn out to be good. How's your record in later rounds? I've made mock drafts predicting that we take guys that most people never even heard the name, or were vehemently against taking. Bernard Pierce? Everyone said no, we already have Rice. Chykie Brown? Everyone said "Who?"  Asa Jackson? See Chykie Brown. Marshall Yanda (I had us taking him in the 2nd round)? He's an OG, we can get better value in the 5th or sixth rounds, people said.

Sure, most of those picks didn't turn out great, but the point is, identifying and rating talent after the first 40-50 obvious players depends on far more than simply identifying talent, those guys will be heavily reliant on many factors outside of their control for them to succeed.

Seriously, nobody cares about your draft board, or mine. Don't pretend that you can do the job better than they do.

 

actually..i;ll stand here and say that yes..i'd have drafted better players than this FO since 2009. WIthout question.

[Sami84]

1 hour ago, jboy19 said:

I know this comment came out 14 hours ago, but you're telling us that Sergio Kindle was a poor man's Whitney Mercilus even though Mercilus came out 2 years after Kindle. Im sure I'm probably not the first person to call you out on this. But you should feel bad for trying to lord over everybody with your "insight" which I guarantee most of us don't believe anyway. 

 

thats who i can compare him to clearly now. I wasnt a fan. Mediocre handwork etc

i liked bosa in this draft a LOT while everyone else here was like hes overrated..last two games he's been a boss.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

16 hours ago, Sami84 said:

You'd have had cody whitehair and malcolm mitchell in the 2nd and 3rd round..you wouldnt have matt elam and a plethora of other busts.

The two selections we made that i liked in recent years were CJ mosely and ronnie stanley.

The ones i hated were Sergio freaking kindle and that fat slob i wont even name. I wanted gronk in that draft..i was so sure that we were looking to replace heap with the 1st pick..but no. I didnt want jimmy smith in 2011 but i understood the reasoning. My pick was m. wilkerson. I hated the Upshaw pick in 2012. I felt we should have traded up for hightower. 

 

so basically if i was GM you would have had in 2013 

1: Keenan Allen ( my pick)

in 2014 : CJ was a good pick..my hope was Beckham jr and Aaron Donald

2015: I cried buckets with the perriman pick. I wanted to trade back for preston Smith

 

2016: Good pick..i also wasnt opposed to jack conklin 

 

So you would have had these players

 

Gronk,M.Wilkerson,D.Hightower,Keenan Allen, Cj Mosley,Preston Smith, Ronnie Stanley

 

Instead you had

Sergio Kindle, Fat Slob,Jimmy mediocre smith,Fat Courtney,matt '' ed reed'' elam, Cj Mosely, ''its a blessing to be here'' perriman, Stanley.

 

I'll give the FO credit for two picks which i approved of.

Ok - let's just assume that everyone believes you... and you really did at the time say we shouldve made every one of these picks, and say you hated the ones that didnt pan out. For the sake of argument, we'll accept that as a baseline.

 

As a GM, hopefully, your draft preparation wouldnt simply consist of reading media "draft experts" and 5 minute youtube highlight clips. Making the actual selections isnt as simple as saying after the fact "well i said I liked that player who turned out", you actually would have to like him better than the other 5,000 other players available to be drafted at the same point in time.

So while you might have like Keenan Allen, if you liked "Player A" who didnt pan out even better, and selected him - as a GM you dont get to say to everyone 5 years down the road - well hey give me a credit bc I did say I liked Keenan Allen as an option with the pick.... please forget I liked "Player A" better and took him.

 

And as GM, you're meeting the players, doing interviews, talking to family friends and coaches, relying on your team of scouts and their info, all while also managing your current roster, constantly looking at the waiver wire, free agency, trades, etc...

So - you're having to sift through a lot more info. so, while you may have loved Gronks highlight clips on youtube... would you, as a responsible GM who was burned by "Player A" two years prior who had a reputation as a partier, and continued to party once in the NFL which effected his play negatively - have still drafted Gronk based on the strength of liking his YouTube clips after talking to those in his life who say hes a big partier and drinker?

Thats anecdotal. But my point is... as a GM the assessments arent so easy. You have 1,000x more info on literally every player. You cant simply say I like these 10 players in the draft.

You have to rank 1,000's. You have to put a board together with your staff. And then when the night comes you have to trust that process. So while as a fan you can say I liked Keenan Allen and he panned out - bc as a fan, its fun to watch skill position players and their highlight films - as the GM would you have had a worse player ranked slightly ahead and bombed it?

 

And maybe it does exist - but if youre going to say that if you were GM we'd have Gronk, Keenan Allen, and wouldnt have Elam, Kindle, etc... please show us proof. Posts, messages, something where you're saying "Keenan Allen is the best WR in this draft and we need to take him in the 1st." Not just, I think Gronk is really good - he'd be great value in the 2nd! But - "Gronk is worth our first round pick"

Bc saying you "like Gronk" isnt enough to validate saying we'd have him if you were GM. Bc you wouldve had to have liked him more than the Patriots, and more than anyone else who was available with our first pick.

[Sami84]

1 minute ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Ok - let's just assume that everyone believes you... and you really did at the time say we shouldve made every one of these picks, and say you hated the ones that didnt pan out. For the sake of argument, we'll accept that as a baseline.

 

As a GM, hopefully, your draft preparation wouldnt simply consist of reading media "draft experts" and 5 minute youtube highlight clips. Making the actual selections isnt as simple as saying after the fact "well i said I liked that player who turned out", you actually would have to like him better than the other 5,000 other players available to be drafted at the same point in time.

So while you might have like Keenan Allen, if you liked "Player A" who didnt pan out even better, and selected him - as a GM you dont get to say to everyone 5 years down the road - well hey give me a credit bc I did say I liked Keenan Allen as an option with the pick.... please forget I liked "Player A" better and took him.

 

And as GM, you're meeting the players, doing interviews, talking to family friends and coaches, relying on your team of scouts and their info, all while also managing your current roster, constantly looking at the waiver wire, free agency, trades, etc...

So - you're having to sift through a lot more info. so, while you may have loved Gronks highlight clips on youtube... would you, as a responsible GM who was burned by "Player A" two years prior who had a reputation as a partier, and continued to party once in the NFL which effected his play negatively - have still drafted Gronk based on the strength of liking his YouTube clips after talking to those in his life who say hes a big partier and drinker?

Thats anecdotal. But my point is... as a GM the assessments arent so easy. You have 1,000x more info on literally every player. You cant simply say I like these 10 players in the draft.

You have to rank 1,000's. You have to put a board together with your staff. And then when the night comes you have to trust that process. So while as a fan you can say I liked Keenan Allen and he panned out - bc as a fan, its fun to watch skill position players and their highlight films - as the GM would you have had a worse player ranked slightly ahead and bombed it?

 

And maybe it does exist - but if youre going to say that if you were GM we'd have Gronk, Keenan Allen, and wouldnt have Elam, Kindle, etc... please show us proof. Posts, messages, something where you're saying "Keenan Allen is the best WR in this draft and we need to take him in the 1st." Not just, I think Gronk is really good - he'd be great value in the 2nd! But - "Gronk is worth our first round pick"

Bc saying you "like Gronk" isnt enough to validate saying we'd have him if you were GM. Bc you wouldve had to have liked him more than the Patriots, and more than anyone else who was available with our first pick.

21

I was watching the TV set. I wanted DEZ and my 2nd choice was gronk, even with the back issue which had been sorted with. I saw him as the bigges tmismatch in the draft. Up until 2014 i watched college football regularly. I remember the despair i felt with the elam pick because i saw a LOw iq footballer with limited physical attributes. 

 

You can view my posts. I have almost 5000 of them. You can see i DIDNT want perriman or elam well before the drafts and i explained why. I did mock drafts with the players who have been succesfull in them. I'll admit i also liked the art brown pick but that didnt work out.

 

I had preston smith in my mock drafts. My two fav WR's in 2013 draft were Hopkins and Allen.  I loved Joey Bosa this year. I said Ndechime would be a bust..etc

 

man i know my stuff..its just something i have a knack for.

[rmcjacket23]

8 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

actually..i;ll stand here and say that yes..i'd have drafted better players than this FO since 2009. WIthout question.

Feel free to provide links to your statements during those years. 

I mean I'd have drafted better players too... if I know what the future looks like. My guess is, if I invested the time to go back that far and look at the people you actually said you wanted to pick, I'd bet it wouldn't be some of the players you listed.

[jboy19]

11 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

thats who i can compare him to clearly now. I wasnt a fan. Mediocre handwork etc

i liked bosa in this draft a LOT while everyone else here was like hes overrated..last two games he's been a boss.

I don't think I remember a single person disliking Bosa on here. I probably had more criticism than most but that was more about his fit as a pure pass rusher than his talent. I distinctly remember guys like @JoeyFlex5 were big on him and the general consensus, from what I remember, was that he was in the running with Ramsey or Stanley/Tunsil (pre-video) for who the boards were hoping would be our pick.  

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

15 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

I was watching the TV set. I wanted DEZ and my 2nd choice was gronk, even with the back issue which had been sorted with. I saw him as the bigges tmismatch in the draft. Up until 2014 i watched college football regularly. I remember the despair i felt with the elam pick because i saw a LOw iq footballer with limited physical attributes. 

 

You can view my posts. I have almost 5000 of them. You can see i DIDNT want perriman or elam well before the drafts and i explained why. I did mock drafts with the players who have been succesfull in them. I'll admit i also liked the art brown pick but that didnt work out.

 

I had preston smith in my mock drafts. My two fav WR's in 2013 draft were Hopkins and Allen.  I loved Joey Bosa this year. I said Ndechime would be a bust..etc

 

man i know my stuff..its just something i have a knack for.

Ok, and again - just for the sake of argument, I'll accept it as truth.

 

But what happens Mr. GM, when these players rookie deals are expiring.. and you cant resign all of them. Ok, so you nailed some first round picks in a 5 year span. You get to keep maybe 2.

Did you nail enough 2nd-7th round picks for us to still be contenders? Did you know enough about building a team to make sure you picked the right 2 to keep and which to let walk for more money? Are we a team with 3-4 star players, but devoid of talent elsewhere bc while youre good at picking the cream of the crop from the 30 or so, obviously most talented player.... can you find the hidden gems in the back-end 1000 - where the truly good teams separate themselves?

Did you hit on the priority UDFA? were you persuasive enough to sign them? Did you manage the cap properly to be able to resign the guys you hit on? Etc, etc etc...

 

Hitting a couple 1st rounders in a 5 year span doesnt a successful team make. If so, every NFL.com and ESPN analyst would be running NFL teams. But you know this. You can pretend not to, but you do.

If what you say is true, it basically qualifies you to be an entry level scout - which still doesnt mean the team wouldve drafted said players. Until you can prove you would hire the right coaching staff to develop these players the way they were or better to reach the success they have, show the financial savvy to keep them and properly build around a couple good picks, shown the in depth scouting ability to find the gems in the late rounds, shown the personal skills and negotiation skills to bring in quality FA's at market-or-below value, and identify the undervalued players who havent succeed bc of environment or opportunity or whatever..... and shown you can do it for 2 decades... well it just doesnt cut it.

 

Bc the guys  you say should be gone can say "I actually took Ray Lewis and Ogden in the same 1st round and Boulware, McAlister, Ed Reed, Suggs, Ngata, Flacco, etc... etc... etc..." which by your own argument, bc there's an isolated sample size of success (much more success than your example, and more prolonged) then he should actually get the job, well over himself.

Edited October 14, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[January J]

9 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

I was watching the TV set. I wanted DEZ and my 2nd choice was gronk, even with the back issue which had been sorted with. I saw him as the bigges tmismatch in the draft. Up until 2014 i watched college football regularly. I remember the despair i felt with the elam pick because i saw a LOw iq footballer with limited physical attributes. 

 

You can view my posts. I have almost 5000 of them. You can see i DIDNT want perriman or elam well before the drafts and i explained why. I did mock drafts with the players who have been succesfull in them. I'll admit i also liked the art brown pick but that didnt work out.

 

I had preston smith in my mock drafts. My two fav WR's in 2013 draft were Hopkins and Allen.  I loved Joey Bosa this year. I said Ndechime would be a bust..etc

 

man i know my stuff..its just something i have a knack for.

You can keep bashing the perriman pick all you want. He's 5 games into his career and although hes had a few drops hes also made some great catches. In a year or two that kid is going to be a great receiver. Mark my words.