When will receivers step up?

[January J]

1 hour ago, flynismo said:

I just finally found one here too https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2016/10/11/a-closer-look-at-three-clutch-plays-will-compton-made-to-help-beat-the-ravens/

Actually the DB I mentioned just dropped into zone...was the underneath guy that was the problem. If you see where he is on the field when Wallace broke to the inside, I think it looks like he's the reason Joe lead Wallace. It's hard to say from that angle if he could have actually made a play, but I do think he was close enough to be the reason Joe didn't try spotting the ball as you recommended.

Regardless of our opinions there, I do get your point; there are passes that he needs to make that require a little extra something like you were talking about.

Im not sure BC of the angle I saw but on a quick clip on ravens wired it almost looks as if Waller breaks inside and becomes wide open in the endzone for what would've been the game winning TD. Hard to tell like I said but it'd be interesting to go back and look at the 360 camera. Either way I hate hindsight arguments.

[Rav'n Maniac]

14 minutes ago, January J said:

Im not sure BC of the angle I saw but on a quick clip on ravens wired it almost looks as if Waller breaks inside and becomes wide open in the endzone for what would've been the game winning TD. Hard to tell like I said but it'd be interesting to go back and look at the 360 camera. Either way I hate hindsight arguments.

I watched it a couple times on the all-22. Waller just reached the LB when Joe released the ball and Joe was immediately hit after the release.

[January J]

3 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

I watched it a couple times on the all-22. Waller just reached the LB when Joe released the ball and Joe was immediately hit after the release.

Gotcha.

[Daft Classic]

I mean put our WR core into perspective:

1) SSS is a HOF wide receiver, and he is giving it all he's got, but he is 37. No explanation needed here

2) Wallace is known for speed, not hands. Dating back to his Steeler days, he's had issues with drops in his career. There's a reason he came so cheap to us

3) Aiken is an undrafted FA that is panning out to be fantastic depth or even a slight #2. But there are reasons he went undrafted, and at most we can just hope last season wasn't a fluke

4) Perriman has played 5 NFL games total, and he has 10 catches on 21 targets to his name. He was drafted to be a high upside project receiver with blazing speed, not great hands

5) Moore is a 4th round rookie with 4 catches on 9 targets to his name. Yes he had bad drops, but he is also a rookie. You have to live with the growing pains

6) Do we even need to explain how useless Hester is in the WR core?

Our WR core isn't known for being the All-Pro team. Really thinking about it, we have a super high potential WR group that  is full of guys that have had their troubles. We don't have any super polished WR's that dominate like an AJ Green or AB,but if Wallace returns to form, SSS stays healthy, Perriman breaks out, and/or Aiken stays consistent, our WR core can be in the top tier of the league. Heck, even if one or two of them pan out, we have a solid passing game. But you do have to remember we have a bunch of guys that have their problems, and we do sometimes have to roll with the lumps

[HoldingCall]

4 hours ago, Daft Classic said:

I mean put our WR core into perspective:

1) SSS is a HOF wide receiver, and he is giving it all he's got, but he is 37. No explanation needed here

2) Wallace is known for speed, not hands. Dating back to his Steeler days, he's had issues with drops in his career. There's a reason he came so cheap to us

3) Aiken is an undrafted FA that is panning out to be fantastic depth or even a slight #2. But there are reasons he went undrafted, and at most we can just hope last season wasn't a fluke

4) Perriman has played 5 NFL games total, and he has 10 catches on 21 targets to his name. He was drafted to be a high upside project receiver with blazing speed, not great hands

5) Moore is a 4th round rookie with 4 catches on 9 targets to his name. Yes he had bad drops, but he is also a rookie. You have to live with the growing pains

6) Do we even need to explain how useless Hester is in the WR core?

Our WR core isn't known for being the All-Pro team. Really thinking about it, we have a super high potential WR group that  is full of guys that have had their troubles. We don't have any super polished WR's that dominate like an AJ Green or AB,but if Wallace returns to form, SSS stays healthy, Perriman breaks out, and/or Aiken stays consistent, our WR core can be in the top tier of the league. Heck, even if one or two of them pan out, we have a solid passing game. But you do have to remember we have a bunch of guys that have their problems, and we do sometimes have to roll with the lumps

Agree here! But, I must mention the OL protection that has been, and looks like, will continue to be a problem this season. I just don't see much room for imrovement with this leaky OL. The run game has to do really well and get the receivers and Joe time to operate.

Edited October 13, 2016 by HoldingCall

[PurpleCity5]

7 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Multiple TE sets are something this offense needs bad. We've got the diversity at the position to make it unpredictable and multi-faceted... why it hasnt been implemented when we put so many resources toward the position recently makes no sense at all.

Signing Watson, getting Pitta back, recent draft picks Gillmore, Maxx and Waller (who was recently activated and converted from WR) and now Dan Brown who was converted as well. We're in essence carrying 5 TEs on the roster right now, 6 if you count Juice... and rarely have more than one on the field.

Seems silly.

Yeah it didn't make sense that we had 3 TEs on the active roster and yet didn't try to use the two TE sets more. I did see some of it vs Washington but not to an extent. Just those annoying 1 yard pass patterns and those TE screens that never worked. 

[jdynamite]

I think the WRs need to do a better job of playmaking this includes: returning to the QB in broken plays, adjusting to ball air, being aggressive attacking the ball, and gaining YAC.  

The flip side to that is the offense has never seemed to put together a consistent gamelan that attacks multiple levels of the field, with a variety of route combinations.

 -A little Pre-snap motion, to get favorable matchups or create just that little spacing for quick crossing route goes a long way gives the defense something to think about..

 

As for drops, well I never understood Official Drop statistics, or what is truly considered a drop. While I'd like to see WRs come down with any ball that touches their hands, it's understandable if they sometimes when they extend for balls the catch isn't made.   

In Redskin game, Perrimen should have made the play for that bomb that was placed right between his outreached hands.  I have no issues with TD overturn, because he came so close to getting that foot down, real time it was called a TD for a reason and I loved the way he went up for that ball.

 

[Maryland]

15 hours ago, OUravensfan said:

Mike Wallace has been disappointing with some of his drops to be honest, he's still one of our better WRs, but he's demonstrating what I already knew about him, not a true #1 complete WR that can make the tough contested catches around the full route tree. The comeback route dropped on 3rd down was AWFUL. The fourth down drop was bad, but it was a tough catch and he was hit immediately and maybe a slight miscommunication with Flacco leading him and Wallace wanting to sit in the zone.

I hate losing.

But anyone who watched Wallace throughout his career knew he didn't have good hands. He has always been a body-catcher who short-arms everything away from his body. For this reason, I'm not really upset when he drops a pass--low expectations, Joe knows he has to hit him in the chest to make a catch. I actually expect more from Perriman and Moore because I've seen them make some nice hands-catches when they concentrate on the ball. 

[Daft Classic]

6 hours ago, HoldingCall said:

Agree here! But, I must mention the OL protection that has been, and looks like, will continue to be a problem this season. I just don't see much room for imrovement with this leaky OL. The run game has to do really well and get the receivers and Joe time to operate.

A bad O-line definitely doesn't help. You start having to hit receivers before they can get separation, and that's a mess in itself 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

14 hours ago, flynismo said:

I just finally found one here too https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2016/10/11/a-closer-look-at-three-clutch-plays-will-compton-made-to-help-beat-the-ravens/

Actually the DB I mentioned just dropped into zone...was the underneath guy that was the problem. If you see where he is on the field when Wallace broke to the inside, I think it looks like he's the reason Joe lead Wallace. It's hard to say from that angle if he could have actually made a play, but I do think he was close enough to be the reason Joe didn't try spotting the ball as you recommended.

Regardless of our opinions there, I do get your point; there are passes that he needs to make that require a little extra something like you were talking about.

Yea I guess that was my only point... with everyone putting the Perriman non-TD entirely on him, and the Wallace drop on Wallace, I only think it's fair to ask that little bit more of Joe when applicable.

Because it is true, you should expect your first round receiver when the QB makes THE perfect throw in the back corner of the end zone to get both feet in... likewise, on a game deciding 4th down when your receiver finds the soft spot in coverage I want my QB to make the catch as easy as possible.

There's definitely evidence to support your opinion with the underneath coverage, and in a real time, split-second decision I can understand the line of thought that Joe didnt think he could leave it any closer to him. Just from what I see, it looks like with the trajectory of the ball it wasnt a matter of where on the horizontal plane the ball was bc it was simply too high for the underneath defender to make a play.

It's fair to expect our perimeter playmakers to make plays when theyre there. I want expectations on our guys and big ones at that. And because I know the type of player Joe is, my expectations for him supersede those of anyone else on the team really. And maybe its ticky tack sometimes, but if we're going to hyper analyze a certain play as being game deciding and place blame or look where maybe it couldve improved, i put my eggs in Joe's basket. And thats not a knock on him really, its a positive. I have higher hopes that next time Joe can place that ball perfectly for the receiver so its an easy catch, than I do for Wallace or Perriman to make a more difficult catch than maybe was necessary. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

7 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Yeah it didn't make sense that we had 3 TEs on the active roster and yet didn't try to use the two TE sets more. I did see some of it vs Washington but not to an extent. Just those annoying 1 yard pass patterns and those TE screens that never worked. 

That and they're not sticking with it. They're not being multiple with it. It's one or two plays with that personnel grouping and then they go away from it for a long time.

I want to see them stick with it for 5-6 plays at time. Make it a max protect look, or a heavy run package and run power... then flex pitta out and spread it. run some play action. I mean its such a versatile grouping on this team bc of the skill sets that our TE's have and could be used to gain such an advantage.

We've got 2-3 guys that are good in-line blockers, 5 that are plus blockers on the perimeter, 2 that are in essence just very big receivers on the perimeter, 3 that excel in the slot. 

We should be forcing the defenses hand with this personnel grouping. Go run heavy to get extra LB's on the field and pull some DB's off and then spread the TE's out. Any of our guys should be able to win a 1on1 on the perimeter or in the slot against most LB's. Once they fear that and keep DBs on the field, pull it back it and ram it down their  throat. Then when they're second guessing put the dagger in with play action and Gillmore/Pitta/Waller down the seam.

 

I'm no great offensive football mind, and i know 3 and 4 TE sets arent something you can run out there drive after drive... but as a wrinkle to throw in the when the offense is stalling to get a couple quick first downs, and especially in the red zone where we've struggled to get TDs and you cant stretch the field vertically anyways - I just cant understand why its something we havent really even tried, let alone why it isnt a staple of what we look to do. 

Hopefully Marty's got some creativity in his kit. TE has really become this kind of amorphous position in the NFL where guys are all kind of falling somewhere in a mixture of a back, a lineman, and receiver. The Patriots have really shown how you can use that unique skillset to force a defenses hand, and make it a staple of a very successful offense. The defense really has to pick their poison... and if they dont have the LB's and Safeties that are diverse enough in their skill sets to counter it - you're really at a disadvantage.

There's maybe a handful of teams in the league with LBs capable of really shutting that down. Against the rest, as long as you consistently execute and make the proper adjustments you should at the very least move the ball efficiently. And with us, we have a Perriman and a Wallace that even if we go multi-TEs still have a guy on the perimeter that can go win with speed on the perimeter and beat a safety over the top to keep the explosive big plays as a concern as well.

I'm 100% convinced that it needs to be a part of our offense. It wont be Gronk/Bennett or Gronk/Hernandez... but we dont need it to be. All we need it to do is get us that 1st down to avoid the 3 straight 3 and outs that kill us for quarters at a time, or to punch in that extra TD instead of stalling out at the 15. It could be the difference between a 5-0 Ravens team and the one we're looking at right now.

[gtalk12]

I just pray at some point someone other than an old MONSTER veteran can produce for us the way other Qb's with less skill have. Dalton has had the likes of Marvin Jones and AJ Green at the same time....at the same...damn....time.....Stafford had MEGATRON, Ryan had the 3 headed monster in Tony G, Rowdy Roddy, and Julio Jones....

 

 

[gtalk12]

5 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

That and they're not sticking with it. They're not being multiple with it. It's one or two plays with that personnel grouping and then they go away from it for a long time.

I want to see them stick with it for 5-6 plays at time. Make it a max protect look, or a heavy run package and run power... then flex pitta out and spread it. run some play action. I mean its such a versatile grouping on this team bc of the skill sets that our TE's have and could be used to gain such an advantage.

We've got 2-3 guys that are good in-line blockers, 5 that are plus blockers on the perimeter, 2 that are in essence just very big receivers on the perimeter, 3 that excel in the slot. 

We should be forcing the defenses hand with this personnel grouping. Go run heavy to get extra LB's on the field and pull some DB's off and then spread the TE's out. Any of our guys should be able to win a 1on1 on the perimeter or in the slot against most LB's. Once they fear that and keep DBs on the field, pull it back it and ram it down their  throat. Then when they're second guessing put the dagger in with play action and Gillmore/Pitta/Waller down the seam.

 

I'm no great offensive football mind, and i know 3 and 4 TE sets arent something you can run out there drive after drive... but as a wrinkle to throw in the when the offense is stalling to get a couple quick first downs, and especially in the red zone where we've struggled to get TDs and you cant stretch the field vertically anyways - I just cant understand why its something we havent really even tried, let alone why it isnt a staple of what we look to do. 

Hopefully Marty's got some creativity in his kit. TE has really become this kind of amorphous position in the NFL where guys are all kind of falling somewhere in a mixture of a back, a lineman, and receiver. The Patriots have really shown how you can use that unique skillset to force a defenses hand, and make it a staple of a very successful offense. The defense really has to pick their poison... and if they dont have the LB's and Safeties that are diverse enough in their skill sets to counter it - you're really at a disadvantage.

There's maybe a handful of teams in the league with LBs capable of really shutting that down. Against the rest, as long as you consistently execute and make the proper adjustments you should at the very least move the ball efficiently. And with us, we have a Perriman and a Wallace that even if we go multi-TEs still have a guy on the perimeter that can go win with speed on the perimeter and beat a safety over the top to keep the explosive big plays as a concern as well.

I'm 100% convinced that it needs to be a part of our offense. It wont be Gronk/Bennett or Gronk/Hernandez... but we dont need it to be. All we need it to do is get us that 1st down to avoid the 3 straight 3 and outs that kill us for quarters at a time, or to punch in that extra TD instead of stalling out at the 15. It could be the difference between a 5-0 Ravens team and the one we're looking at right now.

our 2 best catching TE's should be out there....I thought with Pitta back and Maxx in the backfield our running game was going to be better. Maxx is hurt, can't hold that against him though. This passing offense is not clicking, we should be putting up closer to 24-26 points a game, not 18 mostly relying on Tucker.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

The thread title should be changed to "When will Breshad Perriman step up".His dropped deep ball and mis step on the non game winning touchdown lost us that game and is the reason a coach got fired.It was impressive that he got behind the DB on that deep play and managed to create separation and be in position to make that catch vs one of/if not the best CB in the league on the non TD,but I'm tired having to look on the bright side at the potential of guys.Outside of 2010,12 and 14 we always seem to go into the season with guys who have potential at WR.It gets nauseating after a while.Especially when we have to look at how pit finds recievers effortlessly in the mid rounds.Their 4th or 5th round guy is outplaying the guy we drafted in the first round of the same draft.?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

33 minutes ago, HomeoftheBRAVENS said:

The thread title should be changed to "When will Breshad Perriman step up".His dropped deep ball and mis step on the non game winning touchdown lost us that game and is the reason a coach got fired.It was impressive that he got behind the DB on that deep play and managed to create separation and be in position to make that catch vs one of/if not the best CB in the league on the non TD,but I'm tired having to look on the bright side at the potential of guys.Outside of 2010,12 and 14 we always seem to go into the season with guys who have potential at WR.It gets nauseating after a while.Especially when we have to look at how pit finds recievers effortlessly in the mid rounds.Their 4th or 5th round guy is outplaying the guy we drafted in the first round of the same draft.?

Perrimans played 5 games and has 5 weeks of NFL practice under his belt. If Coates was doing this Week 1 regular season last year - ok.

But he wasnt. He was garbage. And it's taken a full year and almost a half, 2 full offseasons for him to make a couple big plays. He had i think 1 catch for 20 yds last year (regular season). Perrimans already far better in his first season.

[January J]

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

 

 

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Perrimans played 5 games and has 5 weeks of NFL practice under his belt. If Coates was doing this Week 1 regular season last year - ok.

But he wasnt. He was garbage. And it's taken a full year and almost a half, 2 full offseasons for him to make a couple big plays. He had i think 1 catch for 20 yds last year (regular season). Perrimans already far better in his first season.

Yeah give perriman this year to develop and next season I think he will be dangerous and a true threat all over the field.

[Dfence4champs2052]

They will only step up......when they are on another team.