Merged: Marty Mornhinweg and the New Offense

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, Rav'nDan said:

I know I'm not the only one who pulled up 2010-2011 Eagles highlights and replacing the eagles players our Ravens players making those plays except for the crazy Vick scrambles lol

Something tells me his 49er days would be more of an accurate representation since he called a very successful run heavy game there and he was far more pass happy in Philly.

[Ravensfan23]

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I do as well, the fact that he's being honest like that lets me know that there really were problems on the offense. That this isn't something that we the fans use to accuse Trestman as a scrape goat, in this instance it just proved that him and the players didn't gel at all. 

That may be true but that still doesn't excuse those guys poor play over the first 5 games. 

But what I will say is listening to the players and Harbs speak about Marty the 2 words used the most seem to be confidence and tempo. I'm not of the thinking that a simple change in OC will improve everything with the offense because as I've said before, I place more onus on players execution making plays look better or worse than they are. However I must say that I do believe that confidence and tempo are two things that could make even an average offense look good. Honestly I didn't think firing Trestman would be that big of a deal until i heard how the players spoke with such excitement about Marty. 

If the players didn't have confidence in Trestman's plays or play calls that could have lead to some of the poor play. Not excusing the the players at all because they are paid to play well, but you have to have confidences that the play that's called will work. Any good offense needs a rhythm and if there is no confidence in the OC or the QB than there is no rhythm. These guys clearly have confidence in Joe so that's no issue and they seems to really have confidence in Marty. 

In terms of tempo, I think the offense always runs better when it's have a nice tempo. Tempo allows you to put pressure on the defense and keep them on their heels. Tempo forces defenses for be on point with their communication or run the risk of leaving someone running wide open. This is something that the Ravens defense struggles with often and it would be nice to finally see the Ravens Offense be able to play like this other than a 2 minute drill or being down big. Marty seems to naturally be a uptempo guy and you offense usually follows the tempo of it's OC. 

I don't expect things to click right away, but honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the offense exploded Sunday vs the Giants simply because guys now believe in the direction of the offense. 

[Ravenskid52752]

2 hours ago, Rav'nDan said:

I know I'm not the only one who pulled up 2010-2011 Eagles highlights and replacing the eagles players our Ravens players making those plays except for the crazy Vick scrambles lol

Lol I did that shovel pass will most def be in when we get on the goal  lol

[Inqui]

2 hours ago, Rav'nDan said:

I know I'm not the only one who pulled up 2010-2011 Eagles highlights and replacing the eagles players our Ravens players making those plays except for the crazy Vick scrambles lol

I reckon Stanley would be athletic enough to pull off a play like this.

 

[PurpleCity5]

32 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

That may be true but that still doesn't excuse those guys poor play over the first 5 games. 

But what I will say is listening to the players and Harbs speak about Marty the 2 words used the most seem to be confidence and tempo. I'm not of the thinking that a simple change in OC will improve everything with the offense because as I've said before, I place more onus on players execution making plays look better or worse than they are. However I must say that I do believe that confidence and tempo are two things that could make even an average offense look good. Honestly I didn't think firing Trestman would be that big of a deal until i heard how the players spoke with such excitement about Marty. 

If the players didn't have confidence in Trestman's plays or play calls that could have lead to some of the poor play. Not excusing the the players at all because they are paid to play well, but you have to have confidences that the play that's called will work. Any good offense needs a rhythm and if there is no confidence in the OC or the QB than there is no rhythm. These guys clearly have confidence in Joe so that's no issue and they seems to really have confidence in Marty. 

In terms of tempo, I think the offense always runs better when it's have a nice tempo. Tempo allows you to put pressure on the defense and keep them on their heels. Tempo forces defenses for be on point with their communication or run the risk of leaving someone running wide open. This is something that the Ravens defense struggles with often and it would be nice to finally see the Ravens Offense be able to play like this other than a 2 minute drill or being down big. Marty seems to naturally be a uptempo guy and you offense usually follows the tempo of it's OC. 

I don't expect things to click right away, but honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the offense exploded Sunday vs the Giants simply because guys now believe in the direction of the offense. 

Absolutely the players deserve blame as well. Just saying that some people like to completely excuse coaches from any sort of blame or responsibility for things turning out the way it did and I just don't feel like that is the case is most instances. Did Trestman deserve 100% of the blame for the offensive struggles? No, if Perriman keeps both feet in bounds against Washington he's most likely preparing for New York even if he's on thin ice(Which is where he was going to be anyways)

I heard confidence and energy tons of times from the players. I think most guys respond better when their coaches push them harder and coach them harder. It's just the nature of some guys. I think I heard some players even talk about the lack of confidence in Trestman's game-plan. That's pretty huge. 

I personally think the offense just needs to be more balanced. Not a run heavy offense or a pass heavy offense but just a balanced offense. Every QB out there play much better when they have a complimentary run game. We still need a strong pass game. It's a passing league, and when the playoffs arrive, you need to win by the pass. So in that sense, I don't blame Trestman for trying to make us a pass first team, just think he forgot the run completely and that was a mistake. Pretty much all the greatest offenses in NFL History had a very strong passing attack. 

It just sounds to my like him and the players didn't hit it off from the start.

[Ravensfan23]

@PurpleCity5 I agree 100%. Confidence and tempo is what made the ravens defense so good for years. Watching guys go to other teams and fails shows the Ravens defense of past years wasn't the most talented but they had a certain swag and controlled the tempo of most games. Only the teams I remember controlling tempo vs the 2000s defense is the Jags, Cards and Colts. Most other games the Ravens defense won getting off the bus.

I think the same can be true for a offense in most cases. Some offenses have such confidence and tempo that they force defenders to nearly be perfect just to have a chance to win. 

That's the type of offense I want. I want teams to say that their only shot at winning is to try to control the clock and kept that Ravens offense off the field. Not having all the confidence that they can take the fight to us whenever they want.

[Rav'n Maniac]

13 hours ago, Rav'nDan said:

I know I'm not the only one who pulled up 2010-2011 Eagles highlights and replacing the eagles players our Ravens players making those plays except for the crazy Vick scrambles lol

Wait, I call foul. No partial screen name copying allowed. LOL

 

Just curious how you came up with it?

With me, I have a friend who is a member of the Baltimore band "The Ravyns". They have a song called "I'm A Rav'n Maniac"

Edited October 13, 2016 by Rav'n Maniac

[PurpleCity5]

6 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

@PurpleCity5 I agree 100%. Confidence and tempo is what made the ravens defense so good for years. Watching guys go to other teams and fails shows the Ravens defense of past years wasn't the most talented but they had a certain swag and controlled the tempo of most games. Only the teams I remember controlling tempo vs the 2000s defense is the Jags, Cards and Colts. Most other games the Ravens defense won getting off the bus.

I think the same can be true for a offense in most cases. Some offenses have such confidence and tempo that they force defenders to nearly be perfect just to have a chance to win. 

That's the type of offense I want. I want teams to say that their only shot at winning is to try to control the clock and kept that Ravens offense off the field. Not having all the confidence that they can take the fight to us whenever they want.

Yeah I just think the offense needs energy. They clearly lack it in the first couple drives and in the middle of the game. What we also need is success in the red-zone, that was absent against Jacksonville and Washington. I also want the type of offense that teams want to keep off the field. I'm really hoping for an elite offense in the next few years, only the elite offenses are really only able to beat the elite defenses of the league. I prefer an elite offense and a good defense rather than vice versa.

I feel like we have the personnel, the group just didn't gel with Trestman IMO. We still have a long season ahead of us and hopefully our OL will get back to health soon. I hope we have our entire starting group on the line after the bye week is over. 

[wizard1]

Well Golllyyyy Andy, I just saw the video of the Mary Morningweg press conference and that guy reminds me of Goober Pyle from the Andy Griffith Show. I'm serious!!! He looks and acts just like Goober!!

 

Edited October 13, 2016 by Moderator 3
Non-football video removed

[flynismo]

1 hour ago, wizard1 said:

Well Golllyyyy Andy, I just saw the video of the Mary Morningweg press conference and that guy reminds me of Goober Pyle from the Andy Griffith Show. I'm serious!!! He looks and acts just like Goober!!

 

I actually like Marty; Joe did warn us ahead of time about his personality though haha

[PurpleCity5]

24 minutes ago, flynismo said:

I actually like Marty; Joe did warn us ahead of time about his personality though haha

Naw, c'mon guys. Wizard is a total genius and super right and what ever he says should be taken as gospel!  

Edited October 14, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[Militant X 1]

2 hours ago, wizard1 said:

Well Golllyyyy Andy, I just saw the video of the Mary Morningweg press conference and that guy reminds me of Goober Pyle from the Andy Griffith Show. I'm serious!!! He looks and acts just like Goober!!

 

C'mon now Wiz!  I loved Marty's interview.  He seems to have a high energy personality and temperament in comparison to Trestman's monotone and stoic personality.  I hope his confidence, enthusiasm and high energy is transferred over to the Ravens offense in their game play on Sunday and beyond.

[flynismo]

2 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

C'mon now Wiz!  I loved Marty's interview.  He seems to have a high energy personality and temperament in comparison to Trestman's monotone and stoic personality.  I hope his confidence, enthusiasm and high energy is transferred over to the Ravens offense in their game play on Sunday and beyond.

Oh god I didn't even think to compare the two that way...maybe that was the problem! Trestman put the players to sleep!

[Militant X 1]

11 hours ago, flynismo said:

Oh god I didn't even think to compare the two that way...maybe that was the problem! Trestman put the players to sleep!

He probably bored the hell out of them cause he did me every time I listened to him. 

I actually had a feeling that he was an issue (not the only one of course) offensively when I heard him answer a simple question a few weeks back about throwing the ball beyond the needed yardage for a first down (i.e. 3rd & 8 etc.) and he responded with something similar to; "Well, that's kind of a philosophical question."  What the hell? A philosophical question?    He then said something similar to; "We may call and throw to a 3rd and 4 route and expect the receiver to make a play and beat his defender for the other 4 yards."  That type of thinking and actions set our boys up for failure imo.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Militant X 1

[flynismo]

3 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

He probably bored the hell out of them cause he did me every time I listened to him. 

I actually had a feeling that he was an issue (not the only one of course) offensively when I heard him answer a simple question a few weeks back about throwing the ball beyond the needed yardage for a first down (i.e. 3rd & 8 etc.) and he responded with something similar tof; "Well, that's kind of a philosophical question."  What the hell? A philosophical question?    He then said something similar to; "We may call and throw to a 3rd and 4 route and expect the receiver to make a play and beat his defender for the other 4 yards."  That type of thinking and actions set our boys up for failure imo.

haha "philosophical question", eh. That 'splains a lot Lucy.

He has us confused with NE, where guys can block well enough to make things like that happen.

[PurpleHorseman]

4 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

He probably bored the hell out of them cause he did me every time I listened to him. 

I actually had a feeling that he was an issue (not the only one of course) offensively when I heard him answer a simple question a few weeks back about throwing the ball beyond the needed yardage for a first down (i.e. 3rd & 8 etc.) and he responded with something similar tof; "Well, that's kind of a philosophical question."  What the hell? A philosophical question?    He then said something similar to; "We may call and throw to a 3rd and 4 route and expect the receiver to make a play and beat his defender for the other 4 yards."  That type of thinking and actions set our boys up for failure imo.

That is hilarious. The interviews I saw of him. I just wrote his blaaahh personality off as he didn't feel like doing an interview at that particular minute. lol I didn't know that is who he is lol. It's conceivable Marty's Mcfly upbeat personality is what this offense needs. Because the skill level is there.

[Militant X 1]

5 hours ago, flynismo said:

haha "philosophical question", eh. That 'splains a lot Lucy.

He has us confused with NE, where guys can block well enough to make things like that happen.

I'm serious!  

4 hours ago, PurpleHorseman said:

That is hilarious. The interviews I saw of him. I just wrote his blaaahh personality off as he didn't feel like doing an interview at that particular minute. lol I didn't know that is who he is lol. It's conceivable Marty's Mcfly upbeat personality is what this offense needs. Because the skill level is there.

Yeah!  And it's not all about having a so-called; "rah-rah" coach to me either nor do I think a coach that has that type of energy to them will cause a team to win ball games.  I'm just pointing out the differences that I personally noticed between the two men's personalities and their temperaments.  

[TurkishRaven]

I feel like this change will either gonna be great for us and we will go to the playoffs or we will end up loosing most of our games and will hire another OC at the end of the season. 

 

I don't see us finishing 8-8 

[Ravensfan23]

Needless to say the closer and closer we get to game day the more excited everyone seems to be about what the offense will look like. No one knows how the offense will look under Marty but I think we could have some pretty good ideas. What i would like to see and what I think will happen is that the young RBs will be unleashed. Ozzie and company have put a ton of emphasis on that position over the last 5 years drafting a RB in the 4th round or higher each year. I thought it foolish to have only 2 of those guys active each game. Each of these young backs bring something different to the table and that needs to be utilized in this offense. I think the run game will feature more power blocking scheme and feature Juice more. 

With the connection between Jaun and Marty seems only natural to look at their time together in Philly as a idea of what this offense could look like. The biggest thing i'd like to see that's the same as what Philly was able to do was stretch the field both wide and deep. That offense attacked the defense with it's route concepts deep and wide even when the ball was thrown short. The Ravens have tried to run WR, RB, and TE screens but was unsuccessful because they never backed the defense off first. If Marty is as aggressive with his route concepts, which I think he will if Aiken's comments prove anything, the Ravens will have plenty of space to allow guys to work now. 

Lastly I think the offense will just naturally be more aggressive. Big throws from Flacco like he wants, even if unsuccessful like he said. The run game will allow play action to force the LBs up and get the TEs behind them. Harbs is a aggressive coach by nature and Marty seems to play right into that style as well. The offense will now take the fight to people and successful or not, that fits the makeup of this team imo. 

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Needless to say the closer and closer we get to game day the more excited everyone seems to be about what the offense will look like. No one knows how the offense will look under Marty but I think we could have some pretty good ideas. What i would like to see and what I think will happen is that the young RBs will be unleashed. Ozzie and company have put a ton of emphasis on that position over the last 5 years drafting a RB in the 4th round or higher each year. I thought it foolish to have only 2 of those guys active each game. Each of these young backs bring something different to the table and that needs to be utilized in this offense. I think the run game will feature more power blocking scheme and feature Juice more. 

With the connection between Jaun and Marty seems only natural to look at their time together in Philly as a idea of what this offense could look like. The biggest thing i'd like to see that's the same as what Philly was able to do was stretch the field both wide and deep. That offense attacked the defense with it's route concepts deep and wide even when the ball was thrown short. The Ravens have tried to run WR, RB, and TE screens but was unsuccessful because they never backed the defense off first. If Marty is as aggressive with his route concepts, which I think he will if Aiken's comments prove anything, the Ravens will have plenty of space to allow guys to work now. 

Lastly I think the offense will just naturally be more aggressive. Big throws from Flacco like he wants, even if unsuccessful like he said. The run game will allow play action to force the LBs up and get the TEs behind them. Harbs is a aggressive coach by nature and Marty seems to play right into that style as well. The offense will now take the fight to people and successful or not, that fits the makeup of this team imo. 

Spot on. The concerns about the OL are still there but there are ways around it, you gotta take pressure off by forcing the defense to play 3 dimensional, they gotta worry about the run, short, and long pass on as many downs as possible. You gotta stop playing into the defenses hands by throwing 2 yards short of the sticks on every down and make them pay for squatting on the markers, pump fakes, double moves, etc. Show a few routes that can hurt them and then gash them with a draw when they commit, use play action, use your freaking tight ends and possession receivers for POSSESION PLAYS and stop running tight windowed crossing patterns with guys like Mike Wallace. 

Everyone can say what they want about the OL or wr's but it's obvious that trestman was dead wrong in how he used our personnel

[wizard1]

18 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

C'mon now Wiz!  I loved Marty's interview.  He seems to have a high energy personality and temperament in comparison to Trestman's monotone and stoic personality.  I hope his confidence, enthusiasm and high energy is transferred over to the Ravens offense in their game play on Sunday and beyond.

You have to admit I'm kinda right on this one but maybe we need a Goober around here if nothin else than to give us a few laughs. We are gonna need them after the debacle coming up in New York. I'm going to revise my previous prediction of a 31-21 win by the Giants. ( See Next Up thread )

[Militant X 1]

36 minutes ago, wizard1 said:

You have to admit I'm kinda right on this one but maybe we need a Goober around here if nothin else than to give us a few laughs. We are gonna need them after the debacle coming up in New York. I'm going to revise my previous prediction of a 31-21 win by the Giants. ( See Next Up thread )

I actually like Marty's personality and animation as he spoke with passion.  Very different from Trestman. 

Forsett and Trestman have fallen on the sword as part of the reasons for the Ravens offensive woes now it is up to these boys to put it all together and play well from here on out.  I think that they want to do that for themselves of course and for Marty.  To beat the Giants in New York after they dropped 2 home games would be a HUGE boost to their confidence going forward.  Tough task I know but I believe that as a offensive player watching a O.C. get fired because of your piss poor offensive game play is tough on the psyche as well and that they realize no one's job is safe!  Better get after it then!

P.S. I'm still pissed over how this offense has looked the past 5 weeks but against the Deadskins in particular! 

GO RAVENS!!

Edited October 14, 2016 by Militant X 1

[wizard1]

5 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

I actually like Marty's personality and animation as he spoke with passion.  Very different from Trestman. 

Forsett and Trestman have fallen on the sword as part of the reasons for the Ravens offensive woes now it is up to these boys to put it all together and play well from here on out.  I think that they want to do that for themselves of course and for Marty.  To beat the Giants in New York after they dropped 2 home games would be a HUGE boost to their confidence going forward.  Tough task I know but I believe that as a offensive player watching a O.C. get fired because of your piss poor offensive game play is tough on the psyche as well and that they realize no one's job is safe!  Better get after it then!

P.S. I'm still pissed over how this offense has looked the past 5 weeks but against the Deadskins in particular! 

GO RAVENS!!

I'm with you rather be pissed off than pissed on !

[Ravensfan23]

13 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Spot on. The concerns about the OL are still there but there are ways around it, you gotta take pressure off by forcing the defense to play 3 dimensional, they gotta worry about the run, short, and long pass on as many downs as possible. You gotta stop playing into the defenses hands by throwing 2 yards short of the sticks on every down and make them pay for squatting on the markers, pump fakes, double moves, etc. Show a few routes that can hurt them and then gash them with a draw when they commit, use play action, use your freaking tight ends and possession receivers for POSSESION PLAYS and stop running tight windowed crossing patterns with guys like Mike Wallace. 

Everyone can say what they want about the OL or wr's but it's obvious that trestman was dead wrong in how he used our personnel

I'll probably continue saying this until after game 1 with Marty because I don't wanna seem like a hypocrite whenever speaking against  Trestman, but I supported him whenever someone spoke out against the offense. I put more emphasis on the players. However I agree 100% with you. 

Our TEs were never used to press the seams which would put pressure on Safeties and open the field more. Our WRs didn't run enough routes that ran away from defenders and as poor as our oline has been, they haven't been helped at all. When you don't back up defenders it's easier to pin your ears back and tee off on the oline. 

Using guys the right way means  a lot, but it still doesn't excuses guys making simple mistakes. I really think that this change could spark the offense tremendously. Allowing guys to do what they feel they're good at brings a ton of excitement. The oline loves to tee off on defenders as opposed to sitting back getting teed off on. Flacco having 33-37 good throws a game will really allow this offense to soar. That'll mean the running game is getting 25-30 attempts per game and the balance is good. The oline isn't good enough to just sit back and pass pro 40-50 times per game. But if you allow them to tee off and keep the defense on their heels you stand a much better chance at pass pro, especially when you have great success on 1st downs. 

[Militant X 1]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Spot on. The concerns about the OL are still there but there are ways around it, you gotta take pressure off by forcing the defense to play 3 dimensional, they gotta worry about the run, short, and long pass on as many downs as possible. You gotta stop playing into the defenses hands by throwing 2 yards short of the sticks on every down and make them pay for squatting on the markers, pump fakes, double moves, etc. Show a few routes that can hurt them and then gash them with a draw when they commit, use play action, use your freaking tight ends and possession receivers for POSSESION PLAYS and stop running tight windowed crossing patterns with guys like Mike Wallace. 

Everyone can say what they want about the OL or wr's but it's obvious that trestman was dead wrong in how he used our personnel

I agree.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I'll probably continue saying this until after game 1 with Marty because I don't wanna seem like a hypocrite whenever speaking against  Trestman, but I supported him whenever someone spoke out against the offense. I put more emphasis on the players. However I agree 100% with you. 

Our TEs were never used to press the seams which would put pressure on Safeties and open the field more. Our WRs didn't run enough routes that ran away from defenders and as poor as our oline has been, they haven't been helped at all. When you don't back up defenders it's easier to pin your ears back and tee off on the oline. 

Using guys the right way means  a lot, but it still doesn't excuses guys making simple mistakes. I really think that this change could spark the offense tremendously. Allowing guys to do what they feel they're good at brings a ton of excitement. The oline loves to tee off on defenders as opposed to sitting back getting teed off on. Flacco having 33-37 good throws a game will really allow this offense to soar. That'll mean the running game is getting 25-30 attempts per game and the balance is good. The oline isn't good enough to just sit back and pass pro 40-50 times per game. But if you allow them to tee off and keep the defense on their heels you stand a much better chance at pass pro, especially when you have great success on 1st downs. 

Exactly. There is playing 1 dimensional on offense and then tere is just flat out stupid gameplanning. Trestman did the latter, 1 dimensional doesn't describe his play calling. He was 1 dimensional and didn't even call that dimension even close to efficiently, and seemed to call the exact opposite of our strengths.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Yea I get that we still had chances to win the last two games and you can't pin it all on Trestman. 

Like if Perriman makes either catch, if we convert that 4th down, if Mosley doesn't fumble, etc.... 

and that's true - we would've probably eeked out those wins. 

 

But if Trestman wasn't misusing our weapons, calling 6 yard routes on every 3rd and 8, and calling a terrible game the other 95% of the time there's a good chance the games wouldn't have come down to needing to count on 1 or 2 moments to win every single game. 

[RaineV1]

If firing Trestman and promoting Marty helps to turn the offense around, then Perriman not getting his second foot inbounds might turn out to be the best play of the season for the Ravens.

Edited October 15, 2016 by RaineV1

[FlocksGottaFeed]

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Yea I get that we still had chances to win the last two games and you can't pin it all on Trestman. 

Like if Perriman makes either catch, if we convert that 4th down, if Mosley doesn't fumble, etc.... 

and that's true - we would've probably eeked out those wins. 

 

But if Trestman wasn't misusing our weapons, calling 6 yard routes on every 3rd and 8, and calling a terrible game the other 95% of the time there's a good chance the games wouldn't have come down to needing to count on 1 or 2 moments to win every single game. 

Agreed. Hence...the OC change.

[RaineV1]

I think Marty's offense will fit our receivers better. Moore and Aiken in the slot can be good for those timed passes to open things up. Then Wallace and Perriman can get behind the defense.