Merged: Marty Mornhinweg and the New Offense

[K-Dog]

5 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

 We all know what he is. Ignore him

He knows more than us.  Just learn to deal with it.  Eventually he will grow tired of having to continually teach and instruct us know nothings here, and move on.  I mean you can only keep talking to us brick walls for only so long before it gets old.  We will never learn....

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

1 hour ago, K-Dog said:

He knows more than us.  Just learn to deal with it.  Eventually he will grow tired of having to continually teach and instruct us know nothings here, and move on.  I mean you can only keep talking to us brick walls for only so long before it gets old.  We will never learn....

 

 

But the wall told me he's full of it

 

 

You're right. We should hail them as geniuses cause that's what they are. I wish they ran this team instead of Harbs and Ozzie. 

[Ravensfan23]

37 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

 

The issue with Trestman is pretty similar to what The Steelers had with Todd Haley . Todd Haley was running a dink and dunk offense during his first fews seasons with  The Steelers and Big Ben didn't like it at all and made it known to Todd Haley . I think I  even saw reports  that Haley  and Big Ben weren't on the same page at first and also wasn't getting along .Unlike Marc Trestman, Todd Haley actually catered his offense to his quarterback and start calling more plays that fit his strength and to my understanding Big Ben and Todd Haley relationship has been better ever since .

 

I don't think The Ravens are completely stuck in  The 2000's days  when it comes to the offense even though teams like The Broncos , Seahawks, and Panthers have proven that philosophy still works especially if the team has a  great defense but I think they overall want a offense that they can see Flacco truly flourishing in for many years to come.  This year it seem like the offense lack  direction even though they were pass happy or   a pass first offense  but it just didn't seem like what Marc Trestman was trying to do was clicking. I consider Marc Trestman a good offensive coordinator but what he was trying to do isn't Joe Flacco style or even Big Ben style.

My whole point with Trestman is nothing him really said he was a dink and dunk guy until he got here. Even having Forte catching 100 passes that offense wasn't dink and dunk he still pressed the ball down field, it was just that both Jeffery and Marshall were hurt and Bennett was the only other option. Last year the offense was nowhere near this dink and dunk fashion. Guys like Juice and Buck got a lot of targets but that's because Trestman created matchups for them. So what changed? Why was Trestman constantly giving guys like Aiken and SSS deep shot and fade routes last year but this year it's foreign to him now that he has guys who can actually win in those routes? I just don't get it. I honestly think that Harbs approached Trestman after last year and said we're passing the ball too much and it handcuffed Trestman this year. So Trestman used the short passing game to play ball control and appease Harbs. It just didn't work out because there were too many balls dropped, poor throws and blocks missed. That's just how I view it. 

What Trestman was trying to do definitely wasn't clicking but I don't completely blame him. When you got SSS in space matched up with a LB that's a freaking win 100%, but when you have a oline who isn't blocking well and a QB who's throwing flat footed 70% of the time that short passing game just doesn't work. But I say they are stuck in the 2000's because the ravens can have a 1 point 4th quarter lead and take the air out of the ball completely. Just use the Browns game for example. After falling down by 20, the Ravens had 7 offensive possessions before their final drive. 5 of those possessions ended inside of the Browns 30 yardline, which means the Ravens either got points or left points on the field because of turnover. But I point that out because the Browns defense showed no signs of being able to stop the Ravens. 

So with a 2 point lead(22-20) the Ravens get the ball at the 36 with 8:00 on the clock. This is a prime position to go for the Browns throat and push the lead out of reach. However in 9 plays the Ravens run the ball 7 times, take 5mins off the clock and not once taking a shot at the endzone. They settled for a FG to take a 5 point lead and ask the defense to win it. This happens far too often. At least this year the defense is good enough to win games, but the same thing has happened for years with poor defenses. You have to be aggressive on offense in today's NFL. 

[flynismo]

17 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

But the wall told me he's full of it

 

 

You're right. We should hail them as geniuses cause that's what they are. I wish they ran this team instead of Harbs and Ozzie. 

I called one of them a genius and offered my assistance, and they suggested I be banned. Tough crowd, those geniuses.

[ravens rule]

Still puzzled why Shanahan wasn't hired in the first place. I mean if where going to keep the same playbook why not the guy who was under kubiak. Then this guy is thinking about firing Trestman during the offseason. Why?  Harbaugh looking very shaky the last year and half.

[Rav'n Maniac]

6 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

To get the discussion back on track since one of the 2 members of the forum who can derail who threads singlehandedly did so again. I'm a little nervous. I expect us to be rusty with the immediate change which is why I don't see the game vs the giants a win tbh. Which will enrage most members but I'll understand. It took a game for Caldwell to kick in and he was better than Cam especially during the playoffs. 

 

I'm curious as to how he'll use the three headed monster we have. West/Allen/Dixon are all very solid and talented. I think both Dixon and West have the potential to be feature backs(a very good problem to have), and Allen is excellent with RB screens. I know in Philly he was prone to using those so I'm excited there. He also excellently utilized Desean Jackson's speed and was able to adaquately get targets for Brent Celek(who's been grossly underused for the past few seasons). 

 

I think he has potential but at this point, I'm hoping we can go get an actual Kubiak disciple at some point if at all possible(I doubt it though). Or like a Mike McCoy if he's fired. Maybe a Ken Wisenhunt if theres a total regime change in San Diego which wouldnt surprised me.

 

Btw. Wisenhunt and McCoy. Both very smart offensively. Bad head coaches. See where I'm going here?

Correct. We also have to take into consideration that was the 1st time in his career he had called any plays. He was always a QB coach/asst. head coach or a head coach. Never a OC until that game.

[Militant X 1]

4 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

Tyrod's should have dropped to zero after trying to take the snap from his guard.

Yeah!  But it went back up when Tyrod led his Bills down the field and threw this incredible TD pass at the 1:20 mark...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwspugBxWg

Put some RESPECK on Tyrod's name! 

[PurpleCity5]

1 hour ago, Militant X 1 said:

Yeah!  But it went back up when Tyrod led his Bills down the field and threw this incredible TD pass at the 1:20 mark...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwspugBxWg

Put some RESPECK on Tyrod's name! 

That was an amazing play and pass by Tyrod. 

[Tornado700]

I think we are going to be more aggressive at pounding the football first and foremost. Secondly, we're going deep with some of these speed receivers like Perriman and Wallace. Both will open the game up while keeping the defense on it's heels. Joe has to fully understand that he's the captain out there and play like it. He's got to step into his throws and zing that ball downfield like a frozen rope. O line has to know every call and play it like they've practiced it over and over. 100% effort every play by all eleven.

[reed20]

My guess is there will be a quarterback under one center. Two guards, two tackles, a halfback, a fullback, and some receivers.

[Maryland]

A little more balanced with the run, but still a good amount of passing. Pass to setup the run, lots of short timing routes, occasional deep shots after establishing the run and short-passing game, maybe more zone-blocking and stretch as the season progresses.

I'm hoping Mornhinweg gets Flacco under center more and sets up more downhill running and play-action passing. 

[OUravensfan]

If our O line needs help let's try rolling the pocket once in a while.

[flynismo]

6 hours ago, reed20 said:

My guess is there will be a quarterback under one center. 

If the quarterback is Tyrod, pretty decent chance your guess is wrong

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

im excited for the change.

Marty's gonna do what Marty does, but with an emphasis on fixing the issues we've been having thus far. So, i  think we'll see more balance with the run, more down field shots, and more motion and specific play calling to exploit match ups.

Ive seen some worried about the fact that philosophically he likes to use the horizontal passing game, with shorter timing routes to open up the run and down field passing game. There's some basis for that, but i think what needs to be taken into account is that it doesnt necessarily mean that every game he'll start that way. It's simply the foundation of what he does. He stretches you to make you respect both boundaries, and it's that ideal on which he bases his run designs/calls and deep shots.

Once he's established in even one game that the short timing passing game works - its on film. Teams must respect it. Doesnt mean the next game he needs to come out and establish it, and so on each and every week. Once youve made defenses respect it, the individual game plans will simply depend on the match ups. We will open games up with heavy doses of runs on certain opponents, and others we'll come out firing - im sure of it.

With the Eagles, and Vicks career passing year they routinely came out firing and used the deep ball to open everything else up. But the deep shots were there bc you had the fear the short timing routes and run game. He had previously established it and then could build/tailor every game plan to his teams strengths and the defenses weaknesses.

I dont think Marty will be the second coming of anything - fortunately i dont think thats what we need. We need competency. We need something the personnel can buy into. We need someone willing to adapt when things arent working. Mornhinweg has shown he can do that.

Don't expect an offensive explosion... but as long as we can put a few more drives together per game, punch 1 more TD in instead of FG, kick one more FG instead of punt... we're going to be very hard for anyone to beat. Playing horribly we SHOULD be 5-0. Just a modest improvement on offense and we are a very real playoff contender. Even with the sky falling, we're already a playoff contender; but a respectable offense makes us a very serious and dangerous one.

[January J]

17 hours ago, wizard1 said:

Well jeez-I'm not sure how else to rate a QB? Taylor has 9 TD's and 2 interceptions--Flacco has 5 TD's and 4 interceptions? Anything else?

And who won the matchup when they played head to head and who played better? Flacco has also had about 4 easy TDs dropped so far. 3 that were not even debatable.

16 hours ago, wizard1 said:

Really? That's hilarious. Harbaugh has had serious questions marks for more than a year. In fact rumblings started during training camp last year when he totally lied about the Perriman injury fiasco. But let's fast forward to this year. Articles as recently as last night have postured that Trestman's firing and replacement with Morningweg could be an attempt to plug a leak in a boat that's already waterlogged. If you don't believe that Harbaugh is on the hot seat then I have no idea what you can possibly be thinking. I believe if we stop Har-ball in Baltimore our team will immediately get better.

Ask the 49ers how that worked out for them.

[Edug27]

Harbaugh has had one losing record in his 8 year tenure. His leash is much longer than most think. 1-2 losing seasons isn't going to get him fired. Given that, he does need to get it together with some of his questionable decisions out there. Too much overthinking. A lot all depends on how much control Harbs continues to have in the locker room. Once players stop listening, then the conversations will start. I don't think we are near that point yet.

Pees has been doing a great job with the defense this year. I do agree that we need to get some of the younger pass rushers out there, and not depend on Suggs and Doom when they aren't producing pressure. Hopefully the light bulb came on with Wright. He has no business out there on the outside. Keep Young or Powers out there and take it from there. The LB'er play has been stellar. Also content with the Safety play. We do need to address the future of this position in the draft this summer though.

Flacco.. Oh Flacco... Unlike some, I'm a big Flacco guy. Love him. Overpaid? Sure. But Ozzie put a price tag on that Super Bowl trophy and Flacco delivered it to him. We have to accept that and move on. It's not going to change. But as a veteran, he does need to improve his game. Too many rookie mistakes out there. Partially to blame is the awful playcalling, awful hands by the wideouts and lack of protection.... But it doesn't take away from the fact that Flacco needs to be better. And now.

Keep feeding T.West.... and don't stop!

Perriman has struggled, but I do believe he'll improve. Can't give up on him.I believe he's going to be very good sooner rather than later. But time will tell. SSS needs to get healthy, and Aiken needs to be involved more. We need quick reads, and aggressive shots down field. Wheres Mike Wallace been? These are things Marty needs to figure out ASAP. The playaction deep shots are usually Flaccos bread and butter. We need to get back to that. 

Once Stanley and Wagner are healthy, I think we have a solid group here. But of course, neither seem to be. That seems to be the story of the season there. The o-line also needs to be focused on during the draft.

 

Edited October 12, 2016 by Edug27

[OUravensfan]

@Militant X 1 If Tyrod beats the Bengals I will be very, very happy. 

[jazz1988]

19 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

My whole point with Trestman is nothing him really said he was a dink and dunk guy until he got here. Even having Forte catching 100 passes that offense wasn't dink and dunk he still pressed the ball down field, it was just that both Jeffery and Marshall were hurt and Bennett was the only other option. Last year the offense was nowhere near this dink and dunk fashion. Guys like Juice and Buck got a lot of targets but that's because Trestman created matchups for them. So what changed? Why was Trestman constantly giving guys like Aiken and SSS deep shot and fade routes last year but this year it's foreign to him now that he has guys who can actually win in those routes? I just don't get it. I honestly think that Harbs approached Trestman after last year and said we're passing the ball too much and it handcuffed Trestman this year. So Trestman used the short passing game to play ball control and appease Harbs. It just didn't work out because there were too many balls dropped, poor throws and blocks missed. That's just how I view it. 

What Trestman was trying to do definitely wasn't clicking but I don't completely blame him. When you got SSS in space matched up with a LB that's a freaking win 100%, but when you have a oline who isn't blocking well and a QB who's throwing flat footed 70% of the time that short passing game just doesn't work. But I say they are stuck in the 2000's because the ravens can have a 1 point 4th quarter lead and take the air out of the ball completely. Just use the Browns game for example. After falling down by 20, the Ravens had 7 offensive possessions before their final drive. 5 of those possessions ended inside of the Browns 30 yardline, which means the Ravens either got points or left points on the field because of turnover. But I point that out because the Browns defense showed no signs of being able to stop the Ravens. 

So with a 2 point lead(22-20) the Ravens get the ball at the 36 with 8:00 on the clock. This is a prime position to go for the Browns throat and push the lead out of reach. However in 9 plays the Ravens run the ball 7 times, take 5mins off the clock and not once taking a shot at the endzone. They settled for a FG to take a 5 point lead and ask the defense to win it. This happens far too often. At least this year the defense is good enough to win games, but the same thing has happened for years with poor defenses. You have to be aggressive on offense in today's NFL. 

 

I agree with your statement with Marc Trestman play calling being different last year than it was this year. He seem more creative with getting his receivers open and  seem to call for more deep passes than he did so far this season before he was fired. Joe Flacco himself   approached Trestman more than once about taking more deep shots down the field and to my understanding Flacco was frustrated with Trestman  lack of williness to go for the big plays more. Trestman shouldn't take the entire blame for The Ravens offensive woes because it's true the offensive line passing protection sucks, the receivers need to  catch the ball and Flacco does need to play better but as  you said whatever  Marc Trestman was  trying to do didn't seem to click.  

 

I agree entirely that you have to be aggressive offense in today's NFL and I don't think John Harbaugh disagrees with that or doesn't want that but you have to play smart as well. Trestman completely abandon the run in The Redskins game and Terrance West only had 11 carries and was averaging 8.0 yards per carry .That's inexcusable especially against a defense that isn't really that good at defending the run  and Trestman should have been more considerate of his quarterback especially since the offensive line currently sucks at pass blocking. Before the  game against The Redskins, Terrence West had over 100 rushing yards with 21 carries  against The Oakland Raiders and some reason after West explodes on the scene  having his best game yet in his career he only gets 11 carries against The Redskins.  I  had a feeling that Marc Trestman wouldn't fit in because he's so pass happy but  I think what truly did him  in was him not calling smart plays and should have done a better job to protect Joe Flacco especially since the guy is coming off a acl tear.

 

I don't think John Harbaugh entirely wants a run first offense because honestly that's not Marty Morningweg philosophy   but he atleast wants a smart balanced attack and he's more diverse with his rushing attack and I always thought Marc Trestman running plays were predictable and it's probably  why he so pass happy. 

Edited October 12, 2016 by jazz1988

[jazz1988]

13 hours ago, ravens rule said:

Still puzzled why Shanahan wasn't hired in the first place. I mean if where going to keep the same playbook why not the guy who was under kubiak. Then this guy is thinking about firing Trestman during the offseason. Why?  Harbaugh looking very shaky the last year and half.

 

Kyle Shanahan already had a contract agreement with The Falcons by the time Gary Kubiak left to be the head coach of The Denver Broncos.   He may have also didn't want to be apart of The Ravens coaching staff after  John Harbaugh  hired Kubiak over him the first time and it's reasonable to believe that he could have felt disrespected by it.

[Militant X 1]

12 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

That was an amazing play and pass by Tyrod. 

It was PC.

3 hours ago, flynismo said:

If the quarterback is Tyrod, pretty decent chance your guess is wrong

Put some RESPECK on Tyrod's name Fly this thread isn't even about him. 

 

2 hours ago, OUravensfan said:

@Militant X 1 If Tyrod beats the Bengals I will be very, very happy. 

IF.....and as of now that is a big IF....the Ravens can beat the Giants I will be happy this week OU. 

[flynismo]

1 minute ago, Militant X 1 said:

It was PC.

Put some RESPECK on Tyrod's name Fly this thread isn't even about him. 

 

IF.....and as of now that is a big IF....the Ravens can beat the Giants I will be happy this week OU. 

I only abuse Tyrod out of love...nothing but respeck for him

[JoeyFlex5]

Situational play calling is what Marty may bring that trestman didn't. Even though they have similar philosophies, they employ them differently. Marty likes to run West coast routes, but his just makes more sense. TE screens and constant flat routes and badly designed dump offs and religiously throwing short of the stick on 3rd down is never gonna work. Marty can hopefully work better with the personnel, hit slants and seams and get his guys downfield much more often, CHALLENGE the defense and beat what they're doing rather than taking the bare minimum that they allow, and most importantly keeping it balanced early and wearing down the defense later with a heavy dose of running.

My biggest issue was throwing short when the defense was sitting on an area of the field, instead you need to CHALLENGE the soft spot that it leaves, that's what we previously did that made us good, and that is where we were failing. And don't ever abandon the run when your getting 8ypc, not even if you're down in the 4th, we had 3 chances to get some drives going and passed and failed on all of them.

[Ravensdoordie]

I want to know who was behind the running back by committee thing... And will they keep doing that.

to me West is the main guy that should be in there ... Period.... He only gets better and better as the game goes on.

He gets into a rhythm that to me is broken up when you are constantly being shuffled in and out...

at least he can find a hole and make some yardage... Dixon in pre-season was great but doesn't appear to do much

in real game situations... So who makes that decision now with testerman gone.....

 

[PurpleCity5]

Ouch, Pitta had no problem talking about why the Ravens fired Trestman. I feel like most of the players felt the same way and it sounds like these problems are reoccurring for him. 

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Ouch, Pitta had no problem talking about why the Ravens fired Trestman. I feel like most of the players felt the same way and it sounds like these problems are reoccurring for him. 

where can i find this?

[Rav'n Maniac]

6 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

where can i find this?

It's on the front page. If you can't get the link at the top of the page to work click on any news item, it's in the sidebar.

[Cillmatic]

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Ouch, Pitta had no problem talking about why the Ravens fired Trestman. I feel like most of the players felt the same way and it sounds like these problems are reoccurring for him. 

I respect his honesty, i'm glad he's not afraid to say what he feels, and since him and Joe are best friends I'm willing to bet Joe secretly feels the same way and has expressed this to Pitta.

[Moderator 3]

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

where can i find this?

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Coordinator-Change-Has-Injected-Energy-Into-Ravens-Offense/caeaac17-6d05-4bab-b760-03d5888968bd

 

[PurpleCity5]

4 hours ago, Cillmatic said:

I respect his honesty, i'm glad he's not afraid to say what he feels, and since him and Joe are best friends I'm willing to bet Joe secretly feels the same way and has expressed this to Pitta.

I do as well, the fact that he's being honest like that lets me know that there really were problems on the offense. That this isn't something that we the fans use to accuse Trestman as a scrape goat, in this instance it just proved that him and the players didn't gel at all. 

[Rav'nDan]

I know I'm not the only one who pulled up 2010-2011 Eagles highlights and replacing the eagles players our Ravens players making those plays except for the crazy Vick scrambles lol