Merged: Marty Mornhinweg and the New Offense

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, allblackraven said:

I liked Cary, can't put him in the same conversation with Wright

They're like polar opposites. Cary got beat on 8 yard hooks and quick slants all freaking year. Wright locks those down but gets toasted deep.

[JoeyFlex5]

Oh god... 

ITS MARTY MCFLY TO TAKE US BACK TO 2012!

[Inqui]

17 minutes ago, harfordravenfan said:

Great reads inqui, thanks for posting

Short horizontal timing passes that set up the run and deep ball.

Hoping he can Keep defenses guessing/honest and be able to make game time adjustments (when needed) 

Yeah, philosophically there's a lot to get excited about. I think Juice will retain his prominence in the passing game, and I'm hoping to see a lot of plays where he uses Wallace's speed to get open on short plays and be a big YAC threat underneath, as opposed to Trestman's maddening tendency to use vertical five-yard routes to get lined up perfectly by a tackler when we needed six yards. Joe being on the same page as Sr will be useful on those option plays in crunch time too.

Here's another article after the Jets beat the Falcons, highlighting some of the creative looks he dialled up: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1805326-breaking-down-the-new-york-jets-innovative-offense-under-marty-morhinweg

 I'd be interested in getting a good look at what happened in NY. In both years under Mornhinweg the Jets had a phenomenal run game (4.4ypa in 2013 for 10th best, then 4.5ypa in 2014 for 6th best), albeit with Pro Bowl-edition Nick Mangold doing his thing, but his passing games were deadset terrible (31st in yardage, 32nd in TDs and crucially 32nd in completion % at 55.4% in 2013, then 32nd in yardage, 30th in TDs and 29th in completion % at 57.6% in 2014). Those passing figures are just woeful and I really hope they're explained by the fact that he had Geno Smith and Tim Tebow as his top options.

To put that into perspective, in 2013 they were 29th in points with 18.1 per game, which was worse than us at 20ppg. They were 28th in ppg in 2014. That's per pro-football-reference, which I believe factors in defensive and ST scores, but it shows how with Mornhinweg everything starts with getting a high completion percentage.

[harfordravenfan]

16 minutes ago, Inqui said:

Yeah, philosophically there's a lot to get excited about. I think Juice will retain his prominence in the passing game, and I'm hoping to see a lot of plays where he uses Wallace's speed to get open on short plays and be a big YAC threat underneath, as opposed to Trestman's maddening tendency to use vertical five-yard routes to get lined up perfectly by a tackler when we needed six yards. Joe being on the same page as Sr will be useful on those option plays in crunch time too.

Here's another article after the Jets beat the Falcons, highlighting some of the creative looks he dialled up: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1805326-breaking-down-the-new-york-jets-innovative-offense-under-marty-morhinweg

 I'd be interested in getting a good look at what happened in NY. In both years under Mornhinweg the Jets had a phenomenal run game (4.4ypa in 2013 for 10th best, then 4.5ypa in 2014 for 6th best), albeit with Pro Bowl-edition Nick Mangold doing his thing, but his passing games were deadset terrible (31st in yardage, 32nd in TDs and crucially 32nd in completion % at 55.4% in 2013, then 32nd in yardage, 30th in TDs and 29th in completion % at 57.6% in 2014). Those passing figures are just woeful and I really hope they're explained by the fact that he had Geno Smith and Tim Tebow as his top options.

To put that into perspective, in 2013 they were 29th in points with 18.1 per game, which was worse than us at 20ppg. They were 28th in ppg in 2014. That's per pro-football-reference, which I believe factors in defensive and ST scores, but it shows how with Mornhinweg everything starts with getting a high completion percentage.

Another good read. The passing stats were a bit concerning but as long as he takes shots down field and flacco can hit the receiver's on the shorter routes in stride (especially are speedy guys) it all sounds good.

Utilizing juice, bunch formations, and all the other variations would be welcomed IMO

[JoeyFlex5]

I like how adaptive he seems. He can work with many personnel groups. He can run, go deep, dink and dunk, sounds good. However I don't like that it says his offense is based on timing routes to open the playbook and he stretches the field horizontally early...

I just hope he can stretch the field both ways, like deep slants, deep ins and outs, a drag from the outside wr while the slot wr runs a seam or a deep comeback, basically I hope he understands we need to attack multiple levels for our personnel to work and a heavy dose of run game is needed, trestman didn't understand that in the slightest 

[harfordravenfan]

6 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I like how adaptive he seems. He can work with many personnel groups. He can run, go deep, dink and dunk, sounds good. However I don't like that it says his offense is based on timing routes to open the playbook and he stretches the field horizontally early...

I just hope he can stretch the field both ways, like deep slants, deep ins and outs, a drag from the outside wr while the slot wr runs a seam or a deep comeback, basically I hope he understands we need to attack multiple levels for our personnel to work and a heavy dose of run game is needed, trestman didn't understand that in the slightest 

I was a bit concerned about how he used short passes (timing ones) to open up the run also.

No clue as to the types of players he had as a coordinator compared to ours but I agree that it can't just be those short timing passes to set things up.

He has to keep defenses guessing by attacking all levels at any given time

[Maryland]

I'm not going to fall head over heels for Mornhinweg just yet.

Although history suggests his pass/run ratio is more balanced than Trestman, he was criticized for calling too many short passes with Det and NY, which is one of the problems Trestman seemed to have. Andy Reid passes to setup the run, and he has a tendency to inexplicably abandon the run at times, which is worth mentioning because Reid was Mornhinweg's mentor in Philly. Hopefully Mornhinweg ushers in an offensive renaissance in the wake of Trestman's firing, but I'm not going to get my hopes up--he can change the offense only so much from what was already in place anyway. 

/I do really like the point @The Raven made about chemistry between Castillo and Mornhinweg though; that could be a huge benefit for effecting smooth, immediate change in a struggling OL

Edited October 11, 2016 by Maryland

[wizard1]

Man you guys are something else. All last year I was talking about how bad of an OC Marc Trestman was and the whole time you guys were supporting him. Most of you are the same guys that supported Ray Rice. Now you are all jumping on the Marty Morningweh bandwagon. How quickly you forget. Morningweh was voted the worst coach in NFL history in many circles. He had an abysmal record with the Detroit Lions. This is another bad decision that will be placed directly at the door of John Harbaugh. Har-Ball is the real reason for the dysfunction on this team. Everything begins and ends with the HC. Mark my words once again John Harbaughs' days as the head coach in Baltimore are numbered. If he finishes the season I will be surprised.

[Raven_Lunatic]

7 hours ago, Wildabeast88 said:

He was already the QB coach

Looks like he'll already have chemistry built up with Joe, so that's always a good thing. From what you guys have posted up for reading material (thanks very much), I bet he's been just dying to get his hands on this offense! Plus he's already also had the opportunity to see what hasn't been working for us, so hopefully he's got a pretty good idea on some strategy to play to our strengths. As others have said, I'm now pretty anxious to see what he can bring to the table; but I'll try to temper my expectations for the time being

Edited October 11, 2016 by Raven_Lunatic

[Dr. Kelley]

7 hours ago, The Raven said:

I think Morninwheg is the perfect guy for us right now. West coast scheme with a balanced philosophy. 

He's highly qualified, too. Apparently, through his career, he has coached every offensive position. He was the youngest OC in the league when he first had that gig. 

Morninwheg also comes from the Andy Reid coaching tree, which I like. Overall, Reid is one of the best offensive minds in the game, behind only Kyle Shanahan, Josh McDaniels/Bill Belichick, Gary Kubiak, and Mike McCarthy, if you ask me. Having a guy that's worked under Reid could work well for us.

Also of note: Juan Castillo was the Eagles OL coach at the same time Morninwheg was OC. I like that. There's chemistry there, and they'll be on the same page, system wise. I feel like Trestman was never on the same page with anyone else.

This guy really is the perfect fit for us right now. 

Lol non of this inspires any confidence.

There is nothing in this coaching change that suggests any real improvement at all.  I hope it works out, but long winded diatribes cringing coaching trees can be done for anyone at this point, because the NFL is an all inclusive club.

 

 Of course, the flipside is we could get a coach that isn't recycled garbage but then fans would still complain for him (or her) being inexperienced.

 

Oh, the drama! 

[jazz1988]

30 minutes ago, wizard1 said:

Man you guys are something else. All last year I was talking about how bad of an OC Marc Trestman was and the whole time you guys were supporting him. Most of you are the same guys that supported Ray Rice. Now you are all jumping on the Marty Morningweh bandwagon. How quickly you forget. Morningweh was voted the worst coach in NFL history in many circles. He had an abysmal record with the Detroit Lions. This is another bad decision that will be placed directly at the door of John Harbaugh. Har-Ball is the real reason for the dysfunction on this team. Everything begins and ends with the HC. Mark my words once again John Harbaughs' days as the head coach in Baltimore are numbered. If he finishes the season I will be surprised.

What does his success as a head coach which was like  14 years ago have to do with his success as a offensive coordinator?  I hope you know  a head coaching position is totally different from a coordinator position.  Josh Mcdaniels has a 11 to 17 record as a head coach and is one of the better offensive coordinator in the league currently. Dick Lebeau record as head coach is 12-33 and he was one of the better defensive coordinator for The Steelers for many years.I think currently he isn't doing too bad for The Titans either as their defensive coordinator.

 

When Marty was The Lions head he was like  39 at the time and is currently 53 years . If it's fine to judge a guy failures from 14 year ago  which has nothing to do with his success as a offensive coordinator  then I don't know what else to tell.

Edited October 11, 2016 by jazz1988

[allblackraven]

5 hours ago, wizard1 said:

Man you guys are something else. All last year I was talking about how bad of an OC Marc Trestman was and the whole time you guys were supporting him. Most of you are the same guys that supported Ray Rice. Now you are all jumping on the Marty Morningweh bandwagon. How quickly you forget. Morningweh was voted the worst coach in NFL history in many circles. He had an abysmal record with the Detroit Lions. This is another bad decision that will be placed directly at the door of John Harbaugh. Har-Ball is the real reason for the dysfunction on this team. Everything begins and ends with the HC. Mark my words once again John Harbaughs' days as the head coach in Baltimore are numbered. If he finishes the season I will be surprised.

It's not really difficult to guess one when all you do is talk negative about literally everyone.

 

[flynismo]

31 minutes ago, Dr. Kelley said:

Lol non of this inspires any confidence.

There is nothing in this coaching change that suggests any real improvement at all.  I hope it works out, but long winded diatribes cringing coaching trees can be done for anyone at this point, because the NFL is an all inclusive club.

 

 Of course, the flipside is we could get a coach that isn't recycled garbage but then fans would still complain for him (or her) being inexperienced.

 

Oh, the drama! 

What part of 1. he isn't Trestman and 2. he has a long history of success does not suggest that we should see some kind of improvement?

[flynismo]

55 minutes ago, wizard1 said:

Man you guys are something else. All last year I was talking about how bad of an OC Marc Trestman was and the whole time you guys were supporting him. Most of you are the same guys that supported Ray Rice. Now you are all jumping on the Marty Morningweh bandwagon. How quickly you forget. Morningweh was voted the worst coach in NFL history in many circles. He had an abysmal record with the Detroit Lions. This is another bad decision that will be placed directly at the door of John Harbaugh. Har-Ball is the real reason for the dysfunction on this team. Everything begins and ends with the HC. Mark my words once again John Harbaughs' days as the head coach in Baltimore are numbered. If he finishes the season I will be surprised.

Well, I never supported the idea of Trestman being hired, I did not like what I saw last year, and I supported Rice. Do I get a cookie?

[Gtown Purple]

I just want to see some creativity. When i watch other teams play sometimes I wonder why we can't do some of the things they do.

[The Raven]

6 hours ago, Dr. Kelley said:

Lol non of this inspires any confidence.

There is nothing in this coaching change that suggests any real improvement at all.  I hope it works out, but long winded diatribes cringing coaching trees can be done for anyone at this point, because the NFL is an all inclusive club.

 

 Of course, the flipside is we could get a coach that isn't recycled garbage but then fans would still complain for him (or her) being inexperienced.

 

Oh, the drama! 

What's it like to be so pathetically miserable and hopelessly pessimistic?

[January J]

7 hours ago, Maryland said:

I'm not going to fall head over heels for Mornhinweg just yet.

Although history suggests his pass/run ratio is more balanced than Trestman, he was criticized for calling too many short passes with Det and NY, which is one of the problems Trestman seemed to have. Andy Reid passes to setup the run, and he has a tendency to inexplicably abandon the run at times, which is worth mentioning because Reid was Mornhinweg's mentor in Philly. Hopefully Mornhinweg ushers in an offensive renaissance in the wake of Trestman's firing, but I'm not going to get my hopes up--he can change the offense only so much from what was already in place anyway. 

/I do really like the point @The Raven made about chemistry between Castillo and Mornhinweg though; that could be a huge benefit for effecting smooth, immediate change in a struggling OL

I wouldnt be worried about that. Things wont change drastically but he knows why trestman got fired so I don't see him repeating the same mistakes. He will put his stamp on the playbook and shift some things around but most importantly No more dink and dunk all game long and a much more balanced attack is what we can expect.

7 hours ago, wizard1 said:

Man you guys are something else. All last year I was talking about how bad of an OC Marc Trestman was and the whole time you guys were supporting him. Most of you are the same guys that supported Ray Rice. Now you are all jumping on the Marty Morningweh bandwagon. How quickly you forget. Morningweh was voted the worst coach in NFL history in many circles. He had an abysmal record with the Detroit Lions. This is another bad decision that will be placed directly at the door of John Harbaugh. Har-Ball is the real reason for the dysfunction on this team. Everything begins and ends with the HC. Mark my words once again John Harbaughs' days as the head coach in Baltimore are numbered. If he finishes the season I will be surprised.

He's not being brought in to be the head coach if I'm not mistaken.  Are you familiar with his track record as an OC or are you just here to stir negativity? Nvm don't answer that. If you actually contrtibuted even a lick of positivity once in a while people could take you more seriously, but everything out of your mouth is doom and gloom. Surely there are some  things the ravens have done that you agree with?

[cobrajet]

15 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Send em 12+

Teams sit on our first down marker knowing were throwing short of it. What made Joe an awesome qb through the cam years was basically telling the defense "you have a lot more to worry about than stopping the first down..." and actually doing it on the field. Why we got away from it is beyond me. But teams HAVE to sit on first down markers to stop the easy conversion, they have next to no choice, that is when things open up downfield, the more decisively we strike downfield the better the results. We are just a scared offense and play so timid.

I kind of agree with this. Throwing deep on third and long is going to give us a shot at a first down. On Sunday, throwing short on third and long lead to a punt every time. We got to break that pattern. Our o-line just needs to give Joe enough time to put the ball where the receiver can make a play and not the DB. Of course we can't be too predictable.

[BmoreBird22]

9 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

They're like polar opposites. Cary got beat on 8 yard hooks and quick slants all freaking year. Wright locks those down but gets toasted deep.

Wright doesn't look down routes over the middle. 

[wizard1]

9 hours ago, flynismo said:

Well, I never supported the idea of Trestman being hired, I did not like what I saw last year, and I supported Rice. Do I get a cookie?

Your collection of cookies must be bigger than M&T Bank Stadium by now. Some of your posts are real interesting. Was that you who suggested we bring Greg Hardy in as well?

[wizard1]

2 hours ago, January J said:

I wouldnt be worried about that. Things wont change drastically but he knows why trestman got fired so I don't see him repeating the same mistakes. He will put his stamp on the playbook and shift some things around but most importantly No more dink and dunk all game long and a much more balanced attack is what we can expect.

He's not being brought in to be the head coach if I'm not mistaken.  Are you familiar with his track record as an OC or are you just here to stir negativity? Nvm don't answer that. If you actually contrtibuted even a lick of positivity once in a while people could take you more seriously, but everything out of your mouth is doom and gloom. Surely there are some  things the ravens have done that you agree with?

Jeez here you go with the Morningweh pom poms already. Are you familiar with the phrase " better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt" ?

Morningweh is not going to fix our problems, in fact he is part of the problem. This all starts at the top with Newsome and Harbaugh. The blame for these poor coaching decisions are on John Harbaugh. This is now the 4th OC Harbaugh has been through. Doesn't anyone see a pattern here?

[wizard1]

9 hours ago, flynismo said:

What part of 1. he isn't Trestman and 2. he has a long history of success does not suggest that we should see some kind of improvement?

Long history of success? What history is that exactly? He certainly didn't have any success in Detroit almost identical to lackluster stint Trestman had in Chicago. I think this saying truly fits here with this coaching staff-- " if you lay down with dogs you are going to get fleas" ! Biscotti needs to stop putting band-aids on bullet wounds. Our whole team in racked with average players producing below average results. Nobody is playing lights out. That's directly on John Har-ball.

We can rebuild it and we can make it better!

[flynismo]

8 minutes ago, wizard1 said:

This is now the 4th OC Harbaugh has been through. Doesn't anyone see a pattern here?

He needs to stop letting teams poach his OCs?

[wizard1]

Just now, flynismo said:

He needs to stop letting teams poach his OCs?

Yes yes --- did you see the lines of teams waiting to get Cam Cameron? Oh yes and isn't Trestman being considered for the next HC position that comes available? NOT

[flynismo]

Just now, wizard1 said:

Yes yes --- did you see the lines of teams waiting to get Cam Cameron? Oh yes and isn't Trestman being considered for the next HC position that comes available? NOT

Hey, actually Cameron did get a job not too long afterwards, Just not in the NFL lol

[wizard1]

I thought I saw him working at the Krispy Kreme out on Lord Baltimore Dr. ?

[flynismo]

5 minutes ago, wizard1 said:

Long history of success? What history is that exactly?

<etc>........<blah>.......<trollish behaviour>......<etc>.....

That's directly on John Har-ball.

Cmon man. Seven years his offenses had been top 10?

Also a cmon man for 'Har-ball'. At least put some effort into it; even a lame Harblows would suffice 

[flynismo]

1 hour ago, wizard1 said:

I thought I saw him working at the Krispy Kreme out on Lord Baltimore Dr. ?

 

 

He looks like a Krispy Kreme, perhaps that's where the confusion stems from

 

 

[Sami84]

crazy thing about all this is that at 5-0 which looked very doable in the last two games...trestman would be chilling...all perriman had to do was make a simple play..all mosely had to do was just walk out of bounds..

 

all joe had to do was make 10-15 yards for a field goal attempt vs the raiders.

 

if we were 5-0 and we fired trestman i'd actually be  a lot happier as this is more about desperation rather than not being blinded by reality

[The Raven]

27 minutes ago, wizard1 said:

Jeez here you go with the Morningweh pom poms already. Are you familiar with the phrase " better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt" ?

Morningweh is not going to fix our problems, in fact he is part of the problem. This all starts at the top with Newsome and Harbaugh. The blame for these poor coaching decisions are on John Harbaugh. This is now the 4th OC Harbaugh has been through. Doesn't anyone see a pattern here?

Sweet, sweet irony.