Merged: Marty Mornhinweg and the New Offense

[JoeyFlex5]

marty seemed to call a well fitting gameplan. he attacked the giants in every way, exploited their weaknesses while playing to our strengths, he ran the ball often, ran it properly, and attacked downfield, and you see the difference it made on the offensive line, they still struggled but they held up much better than in recent weeks because the defense had to keep their head on a swivel because we werent predictable. if we get our healthy line back in full after the bye, and if mosley heals up and comes back without nagging injuries, we can be scary. 

now, without jimmy smith, we see the difference in our defense, as we always do, but with jimmy smith out there, our secondary is solid, wright will always be an issue but it can be managed as long as jimmy is out there. 

the pass rush needs to ramp up though, its nonexistent. 

i didnt think this was gonna be a big year for us, i figured we would be somewhere around 500 and either eeking into the playoffs or just missing it, i still think this will be true. and honestly until we get younger, i think we are gonna be an inconsistent team dealing with injuries, we gotta get guys like bp, correa, williams, alex lewis, kenneth dixon, darren waller, matt judon, michael pierce, tavon young, ZDS, all the young promising guys need to get developed and realize their potential instead of just showing it. 

with a healthy offensive line i think marty will find himself right at home here.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

28 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

marty seemed to call a well fitting gameplan. he attacked the giants in every way, exploited their weaknesses while playing to our strengths, he ran the ball often, ran it properly, and attacked downfield, and you see the difference it made on the offensive line, they still struggled but they held up much better than in recent weeks because the defense had to keep their head on a swivel because we werent predictable. if we get our healthy line back in full after the bye, and if mosley heals up and comes back without nagging injuries, we can be scary. 

now, without jimmy smith, we see the difference in our defense, as we always do, but with jimmy smith out there, our secondary is solid, wright will always be an issue but it can be managed as long as jimmy is out there. 

the pass rush needs to ramp up though, its nonexistent. 

i didnt think this was gonna be a big year for us, i figured we would be somewhere around 500 and either eeking into the playoffs or just missing it, i still think this will be true. and honestly until we get younger, i think we are gonna be an inconsistent team dealing with injuries, we gotta get guys like bp, correa, williams, alex lewis, kenneth dixon, darren waller, matt judon, michael pierce, tavon young, ZDS, all the young promising guys need to get developed and realize their potential instead of just showing it. 

with a healthy offensive line i think marty will find himself right at home here.

So, which game were you watching today? We would have won this game if it wasn't for the bone-headed decision to go for it on 4th down at the one. Had we kicked a FG then, the score would have been 14-13 in the 1st half. At the end of the game, we would have still been trailing 27-26 but would have won by a score of 29-27. This is an under-achieving team led by a clueless head coach. Maybe Marty can take over when John is fired. All of your points are well taken but you're missing the main point --- John panics and takes his team out of a position to win games. We should be 6-0 right now. With Harbaugh at the helm, we'll be lucky to wind up at 8-8 now.  

[JoeyFlex5]

21 minutes ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

So, which game were you watching today? We would have won this game if it wasn't for the bone-headed decision to go for it on 4th down at the one. Had we kicked a FG then, the score would have been 14-13 in the 1st half. At the end of the game, we would have still been trailing 27-26 but would have won by a score of 29-27. This is an under-achieving team led by a clueless head coach. Maybe Marty can take over when John is fired. All of your points are well taken but you're missing the main point --- John panics and takes his team out of a position to win games. We should be 6-0 right now. With Harbaugh at the helm, we'll be lucky to wind up at 8-8 now.  

first of all.. what does that have to do with marty? secondly, on the 1 yard line there is no harm in going for it, pinning the opposing offense on the 1 is a huge opportunity for a big swing of events, we made the mistake of going wide, juice blew his block completely, and we gave it to them on the 2 or 3, which still isnt that bad. the real problem there was the defense failing to get a stop even with them backed up near the goal line. this isnt like past weeks where we go for it barely past midfield, this was on the freaking 1 yard line, we lost a yard, and then the defense failed us. 

for once, harbaugh made an aggressive call and it was the right call, it just wasnt executed.

[Tru11]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

first of all.. what does that have to do with marty? secondly, on the 1 yard line there is no harm in going for it, pinning the opposing offense on the 1 is a huge opportunity for a big swing of events, we made the mistake of going wide, juice blew his block completely, and we gave it to them on the 2 or 3, which still isnt that bad. the real problem there was the defense failing to get a stop even with them backed up near the goal line. this isnt like past weeks where we go for it barely past midfield, this was on the freaking 1 yard line, we lost a yard, and then the defense failed us. 

for once, harbaugh made an aggressive call and it was the right call, it just wasnt executed.

 

the defense has nothing to do with offense not being able to score TDs in the redzone.

that is the real problem so can you please leave the defense out of this......

 

 

[flynismo]

2 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

the defense has nothing to do with offense not being able to score TDs in the redzone.

that is the real problem so can you please leave the defense out of this......

The assumption that the defense would stop them when they started on their own three played a huge role in the decision to go for it. So...no, we can't leave the defense out of it if people are questioning Harbs' decision.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

10 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

 

the defense has nothing to do with offense not being able to score TDs in the redzone.

that is the real problem so can you please leave the defense out of this......

 

 

 

Also attributed to the backup oline. No push = no hole for the RB to go through.

 

That changes if we have Yanda and Stanley back in all likelihood. 

[Tru11]

4 minutes ago, flynismo said:

The assumption that the defense would stop them when they started on their own three played a huge role in the decision to go for it. So...no, we can't leave the defense out of it if people are questioning Harbs' decision.

the assumption should be that the offense scores.

counting on the defense after expecting the offense to fail should tell you to take the points TBH.

 

[Tru11]

3 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Also attributed to the backup oline. No push = no hole for the RB to go through.

 

That changes if we have Yanda and Stanley back in all likelihood. 

we have been a terrible redzone offense since forever tbh.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Just now, Tru11 said:

we have been a terrible redzone offense since forever tbh.

We have. But something tells me with the oline getting healthy and the new oline scheme we're running that changes.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Yeah I want to keep Marty. He attacked all levels of the defense and called a good game. A lot of momentum shifting penalties blew good play calls. If he could find a way to utilize a two-TE set and use both Wallace and Perriman deep he's going to be really high in my book

[Tru11]

6 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

We have. But something tells me with the oline getting healthy and the new oline scheme we're running that changes.

what new o-line scheme?

 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

26 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

what new o-line scheme?

 

 

Go look for @The Raven's post. He knows more about this stuff than I do. It's still zone but one Zuttah excels in 

[Maryland]

8 hours ago, Deflated Football said:

So how did everyone like the new play calling today? I thought it was diverse and I'm excited to see what else he can do these next few weeks. 

I was more satisfied with the run:pass ratio. Saw an article on RSR complaining about the ratio, but I think those numbers were lopsided a bit simply by having to move the length of the field with ~90 seconds left. Fact is, even the teams that run a lot only run ~40% of the time. There was only one set of downs where I was surprised Marty didn't run the ball once (some point in the 2nd half, 3rd quarter maybe). Plus they had some success with deep passing. Can't complain about Mornhinweg too much. Now the penalties on the other hand...

8 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

Seems Marty will do much better. I will say though he needs to forget the TE screen is in the playbook. We just can't seem to make it work. 

Lol, seriously. Those TE screens have been awful! Even our RB screens are predictable and fail quite often. 

Edited October 17, 2016 by Maryland

[flynismo]

1 hour ago, Tru11 said:

the assumption should be that the offense scores.

counting on the defense after expecting the offense to fail should tell you to take the points TBH.

Of course they assumed the offense would score. But how foolish would it be to not consider any contigency plans if things go wrong? It's like calling a kicker to nail a 60 yard FG assuming he'll score, without considering the possibility he may actually miss.

[Tru11]

11 hours ago, flynismo said:

Of course they assumed the offense would score. But how foolish would it be to not consider any contigency plans if things go wrong? It's like calling a kicker to nail a 60 yard FG assuming he'll score, without considering the possibility he may actually miss.

if you consider that the offense might fail why arent you considering that the defense might fail as well?

i mean with davis and young left as your starters going against 1 of the NFL elite receivers in OBJ , those thoughts should cross you mind as well.

unless ofcourse you set extremely low expectations for the offense and unreasonable high expectations for the defense......

 

12 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Go look for @The Raven's post. He knows more about this stuff than I do. It's still zone but one Zuttah excels in 

its not an entire new scheme lol.
we ran pretty similar things in trestman last game against the skins with similar succes.
his fault was not sticking with it.

you are sadly mistaken if you think they started from scratch after trestman got fired.

[RaineV1]

37 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

if you consider that the offense might fail why arent you considering that the defense might fail as well?

i mean with davis and young left as your starters going against 1 of the NFL elite receivers in OBJ , those thoughts should cross you mind as well.

unless ofcourse you set extremely low expectations for the offense and unreasonable high expectations for the defense......

 

its not an entire new scheme lol.
we ran pretty similar things in trestman last game against the skins with similar succes.
his fault was not sticking with it.

you are sadly mistaken if you think they started from scratch after trestman got fired.

A defense taking advantage of another team playing from their endzone doesn't seem unreasonably high. A defense stopping a WR (even OBJ) from getting over two hundred yards and single handedly winning the game doesn't seem unreasonably high.

[BmoreBird22]

13 hours ago, Maryland said:

I was more satisfied with the run:pass ratio. Saw an article on RSR complaining about the ratio, but I think those numbers were lopsided a bit simply by having to move the length of the field with ~90 seconds left. Fact is, even the teams that run a lot only run ~40% of the time. There was only one set of downs where I was surprised Marty didn't run the ball once (some point in the 2nd half, 3rd quarter maybe). Plus they had some success with deep passing. Can't complain about Mornhinweg too much. Now the penalties on the other hand...

The article you're referring to was written by Tony Lombardi. Truly just not a good writer. Way too opinionated and won't give up on his opinions and looks for every little thing to validate them. I'm not sure he really knows what he's looking for. He should be really glad he has McKusiak and McFarland on his staff.

But anyway, if you take out that last drive where the Ravens could not run due to time constraints, you'd have a 41%:59% pass to run ratio. It was 25:40 if you do not count Joe's own run (which was a QB sneak now that I think of it). So, really 26:40, so maybe 42% of the plays were a run.

I thought Marty stayed with the run and mixed it in there really well. Lombardi is just a troll.

[Tru11]

7 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

A defense taking advantage of another team playing from their endzone doesn't seem unreasonably high. A defense stopping a WR (even OBJ) from getting over two hundred yards and single handedly winning the game doesn't seem unreasonably high.

an offense scoring from the 1 yards does seem that way?

[RavensFan34950]

What the offense is sorely lacking is a power back for those forth and inch situations. Any word on what's up with Taliaferro? His physical presence is sorely needed.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 hour ago, Tru11 said:

if you consider that the offense might fail why arent you considering that the defense might fail as well?

i mean with davis and young left as your starters going against 1 of the NFL elite receivers in OBJ , those thoughts should cross you mind as well.

unless ofcourse you set extremely low expectations for the offense and unreasonable high expectations for the defense......

 

its not an entire new scheme lol.
we ran pretty similar things in trestman last game against the skins with similar succes.
his fault was not sticking with it.

you are sadly mistaken if you think they started from scratch after trestman got fired.

You do consider the defense might fail. But with them starting on their own 1, and the way they were playing, you kinda figure that even if they fail for a bit theyve got 99 yards to dig in and make  a stop.... or lets say like 65 yards to dig in a make a stop.

Are you seriously trying to pretend that you arent more likely to go for it on 4th and 1 from the 1 than you are from the, say, 39? If so, youre making the dumbest argument ever.

And the reason youre more likely to go for it from the 1 is because, the negative consequence of not making it is far far less. GIving the opponent the ball on their own 1 is a great opportunity to force a safety, or force a 3 and out and get a great punt return to where youre right back in the red zone.

Are you really playing stupid and pretending otherwise?

[flynismo]

10 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

You do consider the defense might fail. But with them starting on their own 1, and the way they were playing, you kinda figure that even if they fail for a bit theyve got 99 yards to dig in and make  a stop.... or lets say like 65 yards to dig in a make a stop.

Are you seriously trying to pretend that you arent more likely to go for it on 4th and 1 from the 1 than you are from the, say, 39? If so, youre making the dumbest argument ever.

And the reason youre more likely to go for it from the 1 is because, the negative consequence of not making it is far far less. GIving the opponent the ball on their own 1 is a great opportunity to force a safety, or force a 3 and out and get a great punt return to where youre right back in the red zone.

Are you really playing stupid and pretending otherwise?

Oh I know he is...he isn't a dumb guy, he just doesn't want to admit we're right lol

[Tru11]

8 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

You do consider the defense might fail. But with them starting on their own 1, and the way they were playing, you kinda figure that even if they fail for a bit theyve got 99 yards to dig in and make  a stop.... or lets say like 65 yards to dig in a make a stop.

Are you seriously trying to pretend that you arent more likely to go for it on 4th and 1 from the 1 than you are from the, say, 39? If so, youre making the dumbest argument ever.

And the reason youre more likely to go for it from the 1 is because, the negative consequence of not making it is far far less. GIving the opponent the ball on their own 1 is a great opportunity to force a safety, or force a 3 and out and get a great punt return to where youre right back in the red zone.

Are you really playing stupid and pretending otherwise?

im holding the offense to the same expectations as the defense.

if 1 can suck all the time then the other should be allowed that same privilege.

[Tru11]

2 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Oh I know he is...he isn't a dumb guy, he just doesn't want to admit we're right lol

actually im just getting tired of these double standards

[usmccharles]

3 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

actually im just getting tired of these double standards

I don't think it's a double standard,  one is highly more likely to work in favor than the other.  Going for it on 4th I think has the best odds of something working in our favor,  but obviously it didn't 

[Tru11]

10 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I don't think it's a double standard,  one is highly more likely to work in favor than the other.  Going for it on 4th I think has the best odds of something working in our favor,  but obviously it didn't 

dont think its fair to blame the defense when the offense cant even pick up 1 yard which is why i asked to keep them out of this...

Edited October 17, 2016 by Tru11

[usmccharles]

Just now, Tru11 said:

dont think its fair to blame the defense when the offense cant even pick up 1 yard....

Not blaming the defense persey,  I'm saying the odds are better imo with that scenario 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

20 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

im holding the offense to the same expectations as the defense.

if 1 can suck all the time then the other should be allowed that same privilege.

its not double standards.... its justification for why its the right decision regardless of outcome.

The HC doesnt know the outcome beforehand. Yes, the offense shouldve scored with multiple chances from the 1.

But its still the right decision bc the scope of negative outcomes is FAR DECREASED in that scenario. If we only weigh the possible positive outcomes, well you go for the TD every time, every 4th down. But we understand that, if you dont get it there are negative consequences. The negative consequence of failing on 4th down, from say, your own 20 are really, really bad. So punt.

But, on the opponents 1.... the possibility of getting 6 should be nearly as high as getting 3... and on top of that the negative consequence of giving the opponent the ball on their own 1; at any other point in a game wouldnt even be a negative - itd be a positive.

So yes the offense should score. But its still the right decision every time... and you do it for that reason. 

And you expect that a defense balling out will eventually dig in with 99 yards. Its not a situation of letting the offense off the hook, its "well we should get the 7, but even if not we;re still in a good situation." 

The worst, worst possible outcome happened. But the chances of both missing, AND our D failing were slim.

 

EDIT: and do all parents have the same expectations for all their children... or do you let your 3rd, little crazy child get away with more?

 

Our D is/was top ranked. Our Offense has been horrendous for 2 decades (mostly). Are you telling me we should expect the same from a great D and a (usually) bad O? 

All things equal - scoring from the 1, and not giving up a 99 yd scoring drive are pretty similar. But one of those units is not like other - one of these units just isnt the same. And ill give you one guess.

Edited October 17, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

4 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

dont think its fair to blame the defense when the offense cant even pick up 1 yard which is why i asked to keep them out of this...

Look at a few posts back and a few posts after. I address the oline play as a problem.

penalities were a big part but the oline as whole failed yesterday. That's what happens when backups play. 

 

[allblackraven]

52 minutes ago, RavensFan34950 said:

What the offense is sorely lacking is a power back for those forth and inch situations. Any word on what's up with Taliaferro? His physical presence is sorely needed.

Or we can learn from Andy Reid and Dontari Poe. "Hungry pig right" play (no joke):

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/fat-guy-td-catch-346-pound-chiefs-dt-dontari-poe-scores-on-a-screen-pass-220326402.html

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Just now, allblackraven said:

Or we can learn from Andy Reid and Dontari Poe. "Hungry pig right" play (no joke):

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/fat-guy-td-catch-346-pound-chiefs-dt-dontari-poe-scores-on-a-screen-pass-220326402.html

saw that. love it.