Merged: Ravens Fire Marc Trestman

[cobrajet]

28 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Right, but he also realizes that the same coordinator that we promoted in 2012 was also here in 2013. How do you think the fanbase felt about that offense?

Like I said, literally less than 12 months later, fans were calling for yet another offensive coordinator firing. Didn't even take a year... that's what fans do.

I'd say there's about a zero percent chance that Harbaugh makes coaching decisions based on how angry fans are. I would certainly bet he doesn't care one bit. Frankly, I'd be disappointed if he did. 

Like Bill Parcells once said... when you start listening to fans, you'll be sitting with the fans.

I agree with you 100% (except for the part I bolded) and I suspect most of the fans know that and are just venting because they are upset and frustrated. It is probably even therapeutic for them at times, I know it is for me. I was probably beating a dead horse last night more than I needed to out of my frustration with the penalty I wanted declined but I will probably move on from it in a couple of days (especially if the Orioles win the wild card game tomorrow). With that said, I still think it may be a good thing for the fans to let the organization know how upset they are with things in these "Fire Trestman" type threads. I am not 100% sure that that Harbaugh really doesn't care what the fans think especially if things really built up on this official Ravens website against Trestman. He would never admit to it of course. I would actually be a little disappointed if he didn't care at least a little bit about the fans of a team he coaches. Hey, Rex fired his offensive coordinator pretty quickly and things seemed to work out ok yesterday in their game....lol.

Edited October 3, 2016 by cobrajet

[flynismo]

8 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Joe sounded frustrated with the play-calling and I honestly think that Trestman is going to have to adjust what he usually does. Offense needs to start faster and Joe sounds pretty annoyed right now with what the team is doing.

Second week in a row he's said something about playcalling. There should be a third strike you're out rule (for Trestman)

[RaineV1]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Didn't see a lot of people saying this after Julio's 1 catch, 16 yard game against that deathly tough Saints secondary just last week...

I actually would praise Shanahan in that Saints game, because of the way the ball was spread out. It sucks for Julio's stats, but the Saints went all in on stopping him and Shanahan took full advantage of that. I just can't see Trestman making a gameplan to pick apart a defense the way Kyle Shanahan does.

[rmcjacket23]

24 minutes ago, cobrajet said:

I agree with you 100% (except for the part I bolded) and I suspect most of the fans know that and are just venting because they are upset and frustrated. It is probably even therapeutic for them at times, I know it is for me. I was probably beating a dead horse last night more than I needed to out of my frustration with the penalty I wanted declined but I will probably move on from it in a couple of days (especially if the Orioles win the wild card game tomorrow). With that said, I still think it may be a good thing for the fans to let the organization know how upset they are with things in these "Fire Trestman" type threads. I am not 100% sure that that Harbaugh really doesn't care what the fans think especially if things really built up on this official Ravens website against Trestman. He would never admit to it of course. I would actually be a little disappointed if he didn't care at least a little bit about the fans of a team he coaches. Hey, Rex fired his offensive coordinator pretty quickly and things seemed to work out ok yesterday in their game....lol.

I would almost certainly bet that Harbaugh doesn't even know there's a forum page on the teams website. Also wouldn't surprise me if he didn't know how to navigate to the teams website, because they aren't posting any content that he doesn't already know about it. Many times, he's the source of that content.

If he did, he would probably see what I see... a thread in year 9 asking if Joe is a franchise-caliber QB. Those threads still exist. If I were him, and I saw that, not only would I probably hurt myself from laughter, I'd certainly never visit the website again. Realistically, there's nothing to gain for him by doing that. 

As for Rex, that doesn't matter to me. Rex fired his OC because he can't fire himself and won't fire his brother, and its the only shot he had of keeping his job (which he probably still won't do). Its not like he fired his OC actually thinking that it was going to make a difference... its change for change sake to save his own butt. 

Plus, his offense scored 16 points yesterday. Not exactly an offensive revolution.

[rmcjacket23]

20 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

I actually would praise Shanahan in that Saints game, because of the way the ball was spread out. It sucks for Julio's stats, but the Saints went all in on stopping him and Shanahan took full advantage of that. I just can't see Trestman making a gameplan to pick apart a defense the way Kyle Shanahan does.

I mean that's great, but its not like Shanahan is out there routinely putting up 600 yard offensive outputs like he did yesterday. I've seen similar game plans against quality teams lead to large amounts of turnovers, low points scored, and very weak production. You'll likely see that from them in the near future... possibly as early as this Sunday.

Have no issues with him as an OC, but its not like he's establishing unstoppable offenses or revolutionizing the way offenses work.

[cobrajet]

14 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I would almost certainly bet that Harbaugh doesn't even know there's a forum page on the teams website. Also wouldn't surprise me if he didn't know how to navigate to the teams website, because they aren't posting any content that he doesn't already know about it. Many times, he's the source of that content.

If he did, he would probably see what I see... a thread in year 9 asking if Joe is a franchise-caliber QB. Those threads still exist. If I were him, and I saw that, not only would I probably hurt myself from laughter, I'd certainly never visit the website again. Realistically, there's nothing to gain for him by doing that. 

As for Rex, that doesn't matter to me. Rex fired his OC because he can't fire himself and won't fire his brother, and its the only shot he had of keeping his job (which he probably still won't do). Its not like he fired his OC actually thinking that it was going to make a difference... its change for change sake to save his own butt. 

Plus, his offense scored 16 points yesterday. Not exactly an offensive revolution.

You may be right, but he must have a little down time at some point in the week, so why wouldn't he want to peek in on the best website on the planet and do a little reading. I was just joking about Rex of course, that may be one head coach that really takes fans comments to heart to his detriment.

Edited October 3, 2016 by cobrajet

[Tru11]

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Joe sounded frustrated with the play-calling and I honestly think that Trestman is going to have to adjust what he usually does. Offense needs to start faster and Joe sounds pretty annoyed right now with what the team is doing. Not a good OL but lets not act like we never played with a bad OL and yet don't take our deep shots because we rarely did this game. 

cant he audible or make adjustments when he does not like a call?

[ThatsMyJoeTerback]

4 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

cant he audible or make adjustments when he does not like a call?

I'm thinking that's part of the problem too.

[RaineV1]

32 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

cant he audible or make adjustments when he does not like a call?

Yes, but I don't think Flacco wants to be the type of QB that calls audibles constantly like Peyton did. He probably wants to be on the same page as his OC.

Edited October 3, 2016 by RaineV1

[PurpleCity5]

34 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

cant he audible or make adjustments when he does not like a call?

He can, but he had this same beef with Cam Cameron and Cameron didn't like audibles some times. Cameron preferred sticking with the calls and that got into a rift between him and Joe. I don't know if that's the same case to be seen between him and Trestman since there is absolutely no report there at all, but some OC's do not like audibles.

I don't know but I think it has more to do with game plans than the play calls itself which is what Joe seems to be frustrated at because he did not sound happy with what he was doing on offense.

[PurpleCity5]

4 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

Yes, but I don't think Flacco wants to be the type of QB that calls audibles constantly like Peyton did. He probably wants to be on the same page as his OC.

I don't think Joe has a problem with changing plays, I think Joe just wants to see a faster offense. We seem to try to be that offense that takes things slow and wants to be that offense similar to the Patriots where everything comes slowly and you take your time. Joe just wants to let it rip and I don't know if that's what Trestman wants.

[Tru11]

18 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

Yes, but I don't think Flacco wants to be the type of QB that calls audibles constantly like Peyton did. He probably wants to be on the same page as his OC.

lol this makes no sense.

if the OC gives him the power to call an audible he should make full use of it.

the OC calls a play without knowing the look the defense is showing nor the match ups that are on the field.

its up to the QB to decide if based on what the defense is showing if the play will work or not.

we are not talking about a rookie QB here ...

 

 

[Tru11]

18 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

He can, but he had this same beef with Cam Cameron and Cameron didn't like audibles some times. Cameron preferred sticking with the calls and that got into a rift between him and Joe. I don't know if that's the same case to be seen between him and Trestman since there is absolutely no report there at all, but some OC's do not like audibles.

I don't know but I think it has more to do with game plans than the play calls itself which is what Joe seems to be frustrated at because he did not sound happy with what he was doing on offense.

what exactly has cameron got to do with trestman?

you are arguing that trestman does not allow flacco to audible or change things up?

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, Tru11 said:

cant he audible or make adjustments when he does not like a call?

The touchdown to Wallace was an audible.

[BmoreBird22]

9 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

lol this makes no sense.

if the OC gives him the power to call an audible he should make full use of it.

the OC calls a play without knowing the look the defense is showing nor the match ups that are on the field.

its up to the QB to decide if based on what the defense is showing if the play will work or not.

we are not talking about a rookie QB here ...

Unless the defense makes a super late substitution, the OC will know the personnel grouping and the defensive front being used. 

They'll also generally have a good idea of how guys are used based on game film and preparation. 

[Tru11]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Unless the defense makes a super late substitution, the OC will know the personnel grouping and the defensive front being used. 

They'll also generally have a good idea of how guys are used based on game film and preparation. 

when the teams line up pre snap , you know exactly what the match ups are and its up to the QB to read the defense.

QBs are required to do more then just call the play , snap the ball and throw it to the 1st option......

[Tru11]

6 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The touchdown to Wallace was an audible.

wallace had a touchdown in the raiders game?

[BmoreBird22]

5 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

when the teams line up pre snap , you know exactly what the match ups are and its up to the QB to read the defense.

QBs are required to do more then just call the play , snap the ball and throw it to the 1st option......

Sure, but offensive coordinators are paid to call plays for a reason.

Again, Trestman is going to see the personnel grouping and what players are on the field and call a play that he thinks is designed to attack that defense. 

Hell, even when Chip Kelly was in Philli, he would give the offense calls from the sideline in their hurry up offense. Why? Because he is paid to make the calls and even though Mike Vick had been around the block for quite a while, Kelly knows a lot more about running an offense than Vick.

Very few quarterbacks are going to be better at calling plays than the OC.

And I'm sure Joe makes adjustments to most plays. He's fairly vocal with what he sees. However, that doesn't mean wholesale changes are going to be made.

Edited October 3, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

wallace had a touchdown in the raiders game?

Should have clarified, but the Bills game.

[Tru11]

7 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Sure, but offensive coordinators are paid to call plays for a reason.

Again, Trestman is going to see the personnel grouping and what players are on the field and call a play that he thinks is designed to attack that defense. 

Hell, even when Chip Kelly was in Philli, he would give the offense calls from the sideline in their hurry up offense. Why? Because he is paid to make the calls and even though Mike Vick had been around the block for quite a while, Kelly knows a lot more about running an offense than Vick.

Very few quarterbacks are going to be better at calling plays than the OC.

And I'm sure Joe makes adjustments to most plays. He's fairly vocal with what he sees. However, that doesn't mean wholesale changes are going to be made.

QBs are also getting paid.

Heck our QB makes a lot more then our OC.....

If we are going by who is getting paid what, the expectations for the QB should be a lot higher and majority of the responsibilities and thus blames should fall on him if we go by getting paid....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, Tru11 said:

QBs are also getting paid.

Heck our QB makes a lot more then our OC.....

If we are going by who is getting paid what, the expectations for the QB should be a lot higher and majority of the responsibilities and thus blames should fall on him if we go by getting paid....

I'd imagine every single starter makes more than a coordinator after that first contract. Just the perks of putting your body on the line.

[Tru11]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I'd imagine every single starter makes more than a coordinator after that first contract. Just the perks of putting your body on the line.

So the amount of compensation a players gets is without any expectations tied to it?

[PurpleCity5]

1 hour ago, Tru11 said:

what exactly has cameron got to do with trestman?

you are arguing that trestman does not allow flacco to audible or change things up?

He doesn't have any thing to do with Testman, I'm just pointing out that some OC's would prefer their QB not to audible. Cameron was merely an example and the best one in this case because Joe didn't like the fact that he didn't have much freedom. I don't know if this is the case with Trestman, I'm just pointing it out as a possibility or better yet a hypothetical. I did see Joe talking with Trestman in that wired vid saying that he wants a faster offense and alluded to more deep shots. It seems that Trestman is a little bit different and would prefer to take the game slowly and march down the field. 

Edited October 3, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[Tru11]

3 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

He doesn't have any thing to do with Testman, I'm just pointing out that some OC's would prefer their QB not to audible. Cameron was merely an example and the best one in this case because Joe didn't like the fact that he didn't like much freedom. I don't know if this is the case with Trestman, I'm just pointing it out as a possibility or better yet a hypothetical. I did see Joe talking with Trestman in that wired vid saying that he wants a faster offense and alluded to more deep shots. It seems that Trestman is a little bit different and would prefer to take the game slowly and march down the field. 

in the bills game he was allowed to audible and it worked on the TD pass to wallace.

 

[Deflated Football]

I saw an article written over the summer stating that Trestman in year two on every team he was an OC, the numbers regressed significantly, so this seems to be a trend with him. Only time he ever improved in his second year was when he had Steve Young controlling the offense. He gets a very small pass from me because our offensive line is not playing well, but there really needs to be better game planning when you know you're going to have Mack on Hurst one on one and we've surrounded Joe with the most weapons he's ever had. Hopefully the emergence of West and the return of Dixon will open up our offense more. 

[RaineV1]

7 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

I saw an article written over the summer stating that Trestman in year two on every team he was an OC, the numbers regressed significantly, so this seems to be a trend with him. Only time he ever improved in his second year was when he had Steve Young controlling the offense. He gets a very small pass from me because our offensive line is not playing well, but there really needs to be better game planning when you know you're going to have Mack on Hurst one on one and we've surrounded Joe with the most weapons he's ever had. Hopefully the emergence of West and the return of Dixon will open up our offense more. 

I was just thinking of that. It seems like that trend is continuing. I would love to see him turn things around, but right now he seems to be constantly two steps behind other teams' defensive coordinators. I'm not a fan of constantly having new OCs, but keeping someone that isn't working out just puts us in the same position we were in with Cam. Maybe it's time to find a fresh mind instead of a cast off from another team (granted, it did work with Kubiak for a season).

[jimmypowder]

I knew when Kubiak left we were in trouble at OC .

Trestman's playcalling confirmed it. 

 

[Tiznut]

20 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

I saw an article written over the summer stating that Trestman in year two on every team he was an OC, the numbers regressed significantly, so this seems to be a trend with him. Only time he ever improved in his second year was when he had Steve Young controlling the offense. He gets a very small pass from me because our offensive line is not playing well, but there really needs to be better game planning when you know you're going to have Mack on Hurst one on one and we've surrounded Joe with the most weapons he's ever had. Hopefully the emergence of West and the return of Dixon will open up our offense more. 

Thought that was on the Ravens site.  I read it too

[Deflated Football]

Here's the source: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ravens-say-offense-will-improve-but-marc-trestmans-history-tells-a-different-story/

[Inqui]

8 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

I actually would praise Shanahan in that Saints game, because of the way the ball was spread out. It sucks for Julio's stats, but the Saints went all in on stopping him and Shanahan took full advantage of that. I just can't see Trestman making a gameplan to pick apart a defense the way Kyle Shanahan does.

Washington fans got pretty sick of Shanahan pretty quickly - basically for getting predictable and abandoning the run too often, even on short downs when they had a lead. Which sounds kinda familiar.  

The only OCs that don't get hated by their fan base aren't OCs for long.