Merged: Ravens Fire Marc Trestman

[Maryland]

Trestman is pretty innovate/creative at designing passing plays--that's always been his thing. Only problem seems to be that his running games are intrinsically weak for whatever reason (at least in terms of YPA). Considering this is a pass-driven league, I'm actually pretty excited that we have an OC who fits the times. Arguing that he's on the hot seat after losing starters at WR, LT, RB, TE, and QB is pretty absurd. Click-bait I assume. 

Now Pees on the other hand... 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

2 hours ago, redrum52 said:

For one, I defended Trestman.  I understand the problems that handcuffed the offense, but that doesn't make them any better.

 

Now let me ask everyone who claims the offense was so great, and telling me to look at the numbers... what are those numbers?  Was too lazy before, but decided to do some math.  With Flacco at qb, we averaged 22.6 points a game.  Please explain how that's "good" like you all claim, when league average was 22.8?  By comparison, Denver finished with 22.2ppg.  Would you also consider them a good offense?

You keep referring to Flacco and yes he's our starter but he played the early part of Trestman's first year in an awkward transition where he was running someone else's offense. 

What was impressive was the progression throughout the year even as we lost all our talent. An identity developed and even bit players moved the ball and looked like a competent NFL offense. That continued even further this offseason. 

On the Denver comparison - no not impressive for them. They had one of the best wr duos in the league, a dynamic RB, one of the greatest QBs all time, and an offensive coach who the year before produced arguably the best Ravens offense all time. 

With no receivers, a rookie RB, a makeshift OL, and a carousel of QBs Trestman's got similar production out of KUBIAKS same offense. Not even Trestman's. So yes, considering relative to all factors - that's impressive. 

Trestman out Kubiak'ed Kubiak with a fraction of the talent. 

We can point to stats and this and that all you want. The fact of the matter is our D was atrocious most of the year. Yet a depleted offensive cast under a first year OC running an alien offense moved the ball. It got better as the year progressed even though the talent got worse. 

We didn't have the talent to finish all the time but we moved the ball pretty well. Aiken blossomed. Gillmore, Williams and Boyle all looked like studs at time. Malletts career was revived. Buck became a pretty dangerous 3rd down weapon. Guys like butler, Matthews, clay and givens made plays. 

If you're going to compare it to the Packers, well then no. It wasn't great. But if you're realistic, factor in expectations, all the issues crippling the offense and hurdles needed to be overcome, and look at it through those lenses... Our offense in 2015 was similarly productive to most in our history. With all worse ingredients...

Except the OC. 

[redrum52]

9 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

You keep referring to Flacco and yes he's our starter but he played the early part of Trestman's first year in an awkward transition where he was running someone else's offense. 

What was impressive was the progression throughout the year even as we lost all our talent. An identity developed and even bit players moved the ball and looked like a competent NFL offense. That continued even further this offseason. 

On the Denver comparison - no not impressive for them. They had one of the best wr duos in the league, a dynamic RB, one of the greatest QBs all time, and an offensive coach who the year before produced arguably the best Ravens offense all time. 

With no receivers, a rookie RB, a makeshift OL, and a carousel of QBs Trestman's got similar production out of KUBIAKS same offense. Not even Trestman's. So yes, considering relative to all factors - that's impressive. 

Trestman out Kubiak'ed Kubiak with a fraction of the talent. 

We can point to stats and this and that all you want. The fact of the matter is our D was atrocious most of the year. Yet a depleted offensive cast under a first year OC running an alien offense moved the ball. It got better as the year progressed even though the talent got worse. 

We didn't have the talent to finish all the time but we moved the ball pretty well. Aiken blossomed. Gillmore, Williams and Boyle all looked like studs at time. Malletts career was revived. Buck became a pretty dangerous 3rd down weapon. Guys like butler, Matthews, clay and givens made plays. 

If you're going to compare it to the Packers, well then no. It wasn't great. But if you're realistic, factor in expectations, all the issues crippling the offense and hurdles needed to be overcome, and look at it through those lenses... Our offense in 2015 was similarly productive to most in our history. With all worse ingredients...

Except the OC. 

It's know it's not on Flacco.  I used him as the reference cause by the time he went down(and prior) that wasn't our offense.  Though I think he made some bad decisions and mechanics looked awful it times I don't fault him either.  I just own the defense wasn't good, my only point is the offense wasn't good and no one will convince me it was.  An offense can play well even if the defense isn't ex. The Raiders game.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

On 9/6/2016 at 6:16 PM, KSweeley said:

Is it true that us Ravens fans "like to point fingers at offensive coordinators"?

Only when they get predictable....I think at one point with Cam, we all knew what he was going to call....unfortunately, so did the opposing defenses, and Palomalou

[JoeyFlex5]

On 9/6/2016 at 6:16 PM, KSweeley said:

Is it true that us Ravens fans "like to point fingers at offensive coordinators"?

yes, for good reason. 

cam cameron, jim caldwell, and even trestman as our coordinator have been very predictable. the more avid ravens fans can predict about a quarter of the play calls, if not more. 

its frustrating watching our offense fail for the first half running the same 3 plays and going nowhere, then coming back out and doing the same thing in the 2nd half. 

trestman is much better than the other 2, he at least has more variety in his route calls(cam called fly routes all day with weak wrs) and uses the TEs and rbs much better, but im not quite sold yet because he does get pass happy.

[Maryland]

31 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

yes, for good reason. 

cam cameron, jim caldwell, and even trestman as our coordinator have been very predictable. the more avid ravens fans can predict about a quarter of the play calls, if not more. 

its frustrating watching our offense fail for the first half running the same 3 plays and going nowhere, then coming back out and doing the same thing in the 2nd half. 

trestman is much better than the other 2, he at least has more variety in his route calls(cam called fly routes all day with weak wrs) and uses the TEs and rbs much better, but im not quite sold yet because he does get pass happy.

Trestman can be pass-happy to his detriment for sure, but I don't think he's that predictable. Maybe I just haven't seen enough of him yet to know his tendencies. 

Agree on Cam and Caldwell 100% though. Caldwell was especially easy to know. 

[PurpleCity5]

54 minutes ago, Maryland said:

Trestman can be pass-happy to his detriment for sure, but I don't think he's that predictable. Maybe I just haven't seen enough of him yet to know his tendencies. 

Agree on Cam and Caldwell 100% though. Caldwell was especially easy to know. 

I kinda do agree with Joey to a point. He's been predictable at times. Maybe that changes but problem is when he tries to get too cute the offense fails miserably. 

[Maryland]

32 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I kinda do agree with Joey to a point. He's been predictable at times. Maybe that changes but problem is when he tries to get too cute the offense fails miserably. 

In what way is he predictable? 

[JoeyFlex5]

55 minutes ago, Maryland said:

In what way is he predictable? 

first snap of game or 2nd half: designed dump off. 

most first downs thereafter: run up the middle for little to no gain. 

2nd downs: another run or a PA bomb. 

3rd downs: quick pass short of the marker. 

not that its 100% exact lol but this sequence of playcalls happens often.

 

and no he definitely isnt as bad as cam or caldwell, those dudes were seriously elementary, they call plays like they coach for baylor. trestman is way beyond them but still gets drawn into his own tendencies too much at times. i do like trestman for our style of offense though, i just wish we would decide on a working run scheme, we failed with the inside zone in 2013, lit it up with the stretch in 2014, last year we were meh with the inside zone, and im guessing were doing inside zone again this year, so we'll see, but i like him coordinating the passing game for the most part, i just wish he handled the run game better.

[Tank 92]

In fairness to Trestman and the offense in general, there wasn't a whole lot to work with last year.

[RaineV1]

9 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

3rd downs: quick pass short of the marker.

This was the first thing that came to mind when you said he was predictable. Trestman really likes to send a couple people deep, loosen up the coverage, and do a short pass to let an underneath receiver get some yards after the catch. Though now being able to throw that short pass to Perriman or Moore with a bit of space to run could be pretty effective, and Joe will be better at giving them the ball without making them stop for it. Hopefully it works well this season.

Edited September 11, 2016 by RaineV1

[Ravensfan23]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

first snap of game or 2nd half: designed dump off. 

most first downs thereafter: run up the middle for little to no gain. 

2nd downs: another run or a PA bomb. 

3rd downs: quick pass short of the marker. 

not that its 100% exact lol but this sequence of playcalls happens often.

 

and no he definitely isnt as bad as cam or caldwell, those dudes were seriously elementary, they call plays like they coach for baylor. trestman is way beyond them but still gets drawn into his own tendencies too much at times. i do like trestman for our style of offense though, i just wish we would decide on a working run scheme, we failed with the inside zone in 2013, lit it up with the stretch in 2014, last year we were meh with the inside zone, and im guessing were doing inside zone again this year, so we'll see, but i like him coordinating the passing game for the most part, i just wish he handled the run game better.

every OC or DC for that matter is predictable to a point. That's why you watch film and pick up tendencies, but Trestman wasn't predictable to the point where everyone knew what was coming. Even with the 1st down dumpoff to Juice to start a game or drive, it wasn't predictable because it still forced the LB in coverage to guess with his reads.

In terms of getting into his own tendencies too often, i personally don't think he did but how could we blame him if he did? New system, limited talent and constant change in personnel it's surprising that he didn't just pick a handful of plays he liked and called them all season. I agree with the run game needing to improve, but again continuity in personnel will help imo. It was only preseason but I thought the running game looked much better thus far and having a healthy oline certainly helps. 

Even though I was very impressed with Trestman last year, I'd call that year a wash just based on the circumstances of it. This year with a more talented and healthy group, I think we'll see Trestman open things up and this offense will be explosively good. 

[Ravensfan23]

3 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

This was the first thing that came to mind when you said he was predictable. Trestman really likes to send a couple people deep, loosen up the coverage, and do a short pass to let an underneath receiver get some yards after the catch. Though now being able to throw that short pass to Perriman or Moore with a bit of space to run could be pretty effective, and Joe will be better at giving them the ball without making them stop for it. Hopefully it works well this season.

Really the only thing that's predictable about that is that the Ravens didn't really have any deep options last year, so defenders could sit on underneath routes. The offense was really hamstrung last year, but as you mentioned having Perriman, Moore, Wallace, Pitta and maybe even Waller will help open the field up tremendously. It's like saying the Pats are predictable in the fact that they'll throw the ball short of the sticks and force you to tackle well. Well yeah that's true to a point but there is still so much complexity to their offense that allows those underneath routes to come open. I thought Trestman did a really good job of scheming guys open last year, even when guys like Butler and Matthews were on the field a lot, the issue was you didn't have guys who could make individual plays after SSS and Camp went down. 

[jimmypowder]

On September 7, 2016 at 3:32 PM, rmcjacket23 said:

I'd say most likely that's not the designed read in that play call. Most likely that's the 2nd or 3rd option in the read, and the QB isn't finding an open receiver to make the completion at that depth.

Maybe you change your mind after this play calling disaster today on 3rd down . 

 

 

[rmcjacket23]

30 minutes ago, jimmypowder said:

Maybe you change your mind after this play calling disaster today on 3rd down . 

 

 

Nope, because the play calling wasn't the problem on 3rd down today. The interior Olines poor job in pass protection and Joe's lack of desire to even move in the pocket hurt us on 3rd down.

[jimmypowder]

33 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Nope, because the play calling wasn't the problem on 3rd down today. The interior Olines poor job in pass protection and Joe's lack of desire to even move in the pocket hurt us on 3rd down.

You are rarely correct . 

[rmcjacket23]

13 minutes ago, jimmypowder said:

You are rarely correct . 

Game film doesn't lie bud. Check it out sometime.

Fun fact about coaches... they don't actually play in the game.

[Militant X 1]

With all of the so-called "weapons" for Flacco, I still see the same ole' game play from this offense.  

[Tru11]

1 hour ago, jimmypowder said:

Maybe you change your mind after this play calling disaster today on 3rd down . 

 

 

did you understand the play that has been called?

there is not just 1 guy running a route lol.

there are at least 3 and max 5 receivers running routes and the QB has to pick who he will throw it to.

if the QB picks the guy running the short route it could mean he was the only guy open or he did not have enough time to go to his reads or he simply made the wrong read or the receiver simply did not get a the depth he was required to be.

also im pretty sure a 9 year vet has the ability to audible out of a play or adjust routes if he dont like the play call......

[jimmypowder]

10 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

did you understand the play that has been called?

there is not just 1 guy running a route lol.

there are at least 3 and max 5 receivers running routes and the QB has to pick who he will throw it to.

if the QB picks the guy running the short route it could mean he was the only guy open or he did not have enough time to go to his reads or he simply made the wrong read or the receiver simply did not get a the depth he was required to be.

also im pretty sure a 9 year vet has the ability to audible out of a play or adjust routes if he dont like the play call......

Of course there is more than one route ..lol . 

 

Trestman  is a terrible play caller ,period . 

The play calling  was worse than Cam .

i can see why he was canned in Chicago. 

Kubiak he is not . 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2016 by jimmypowder

[Tru11]

33 minutes ago, jimmypowder said:

Of course there is more than one route ..lol . 

 

Trestman  is a terrible play caller ,period . 

The play calling  was worse than Cam .

i can see why he was canned in Chicago. 

Kubiak he is not . 

 

 

because you say so it must be true.

 

[The Raven]

Anyone actually watch the game today? Maybe that's why pressure is on Trestman and not Pees. Defense had weak spots but held an explosive offense to 7. We couldn't do jack on offense, despite apparently having playmakers all over. What gives?

[Tank 92]

Just now, The Raven said:

Anyone actually watch the game today? Maybe that's why pressure is on Trestman and not Pees. Defense had weak spots but held an explosive offense to 7. We couldn't do jack on offense, despite apparently having playmakers all over. What gives?

Rust in spots and a need of a couple of changes and I think you know what those are. 

[The Raven]

2 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

Rust in spots and a need of a couple of changes and I think you know what those are. 

Eh, I saw a continuation of Trestman's horrid, moronic play calling from last season, and that's why I'm concerned. I want to like the guy, I really do, and I think there's a place for "cerebral" minds in this game, but I think he is outsmarting himself with the playcalling.

As others have said -- this was the worst play calling I have seen since the Cam Cameron days, if not worse.

Edited September 11, 2016 by The Raven

[Militant X 1]

6 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Anyone actually watch the game today? Maybe that's why pressure is on Trestman and not Pees. Defense had weak spots but held an explosive offense to 7. We couldn't do jack on offense, despite apparently having playmakers all over. What gives?

It's been the same ole' same ole with this offense to me.

[Tank 92]

Just now, The Raven said:

Eh, I saw a continuation of Trestman's horrid, moronic play calling from last season. I want to like the guy, I really do, and I think there's a place for "cerebral" minds in this game, but I think he is outsmarting himself with the playcalling.

As others have said -- this was the worst play calling I have seen since the Cam Cameron days, if not worse.

Line play from the middle to the right sucked. Don't you agree?  You are the O line authority so you tell me. Yanda had a poor day and Zutah needs to be the backup. I gotta believe Jensen is the better option. 

But I also agree the play calling seemed vanilla at times, but I think Buffalo played well on D as well. I surely don't see a need for panic at this point.

[The Raven]

4 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

Line play from the middle to the right sucked. Don't you agree?  You are the O line authority so you tell me. Yanda had a poor day and Zutah needs to be the backup. I gotta believe Jensen is the better option. 

But I also agree the play calling seemed vanilla at times, but I think Buffalo played well on D as well. I surely don't see a need for panic at this point.

Frankly, I had a few today and wasn't paying super close attention to individual performances. 

I think it's fair to say that Yanda and the line as a whole had a bad day. How? Idk. I'd have to watch the game again to give any legit analysis 

[Tank 92]

Just now, The Raven said:

Frankly, I had a few today and wasn't paying super close attention to individual performances. 

I think it's fair to say that Yanda and the line as a whole had a bad day. How? Idk. I'd have to watch the game again to give any legit analysis 

Zuttah got owned. I thought the rooks played very well. 

[The Raven]

Just now, Tank 92 said:

Zuttah got owned. I thought the rooks played very well. 

I would agree with that too. Zuttah getting owned is nothing new -- he's soft as anything -- but I'm happy to see Stanley and Lewis doing decently. Both could stand to improve in run game but the whole line could today

[Tank 92]

1 minute ago, The Raven said:

I would agree with that too. Zuttah getting owned is nothing new -- he's soft as anything -- but I'm happy to see Stanley and Lewis doing decently. Both could stand to improve in run game but the whole line could today

To be frank, I'm as happy as a pig in poop we won. With so many new pieces I expected some issues, but man that D played with passion we haven't seen for years. Work to do, but I think we'll have a good season all around.