Merged: Ravens Fire Marc Trestman

[Tank 92]

Mike Preston.....smh.  What makes him write crap like this? 

[izvoodoo]

15 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Well the days of Cam Cameron were pretty rough, when he was fired most of us rejoiced.  Finger will always be pointed somewhere....

Cam Cameron had a pretty demonstrable failure to use the middle of the field. 

[lgcs27288]

We finally get a little continuity at OC and we want to talk about firing him?

 

I  mean if he leads the team to one of our worst statistical seasons, (with a healthy team, yes injuries would give him a pass) then yeah get rid of him. That wont happen though.

[berad]

Preston's assumption Pees will be fine is very shaky, too, especially since the defense looked very familiar in the preseason. He even went from the box to the sideline so you know he is feeling he has to make adjustments.

[January J]

17 hours ago, redrum52 said:

 

The offense still wasn't producing even before Joe or SSS went down.

We were only headed for the franchise record in points and yardage. That's all. That's with nobody to stretch the feild either which is joes bread and butter.

[redrum52]

8 minutes ago, January J said:

We were only headed for the franchise record in points and yardage. That's all. That's with nobody to stretch the feild either which is joes bread and butter.

And how were we looking turnover and wins wise?  The offense stunk last year.  Inconsistent and inefficient for most of the game.  You can try and tell me different but I watched the games.  We were in games mostly due to late surges that still resulted in Ls.

[January J]

Just now, redrum52 said:

And how were we looking turnover and wins wise?  The offense stunk last year.  Inconsistent and inefficient for most of the game.  You can try and tell me different but I watched the games.  We were in games mostly due to late surges that still resulted in Ls.

The secondary and lack of pass rush was obviously the cause for the lack of wins. They either couldn't hold a lead or would have us constantly playing fron behind which in turn caused us to abandon the run which also in turn hurt the play action pass. Yet and still we were on pace to set several franchise records. You can say they didn't pass your "eye test" but stats don't lie.

[JoeyFlex5]

Pees should be on the hot seat a lot quicker. Its premature for trestman unless we are a total abomination on offense.

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, January J said:

The secondary and lack of pass rush was obviously the cause for the lack of wins. They either couldn't hold a lead or would have us constantly playing fron behind which in turn caused us to abandon the run which also in turn hurt the play action pass. Yet and still we were on pace to set several franchise records. You can say they didn't pass your "eye test" but stats don't lie.

Too many variables here though. Frankly, abandoning the run would almost always cause a major inflation in yardage and franchise records in that area, because you generally gain more yardage throwing the ball than you do running the ball. Especially when you talk about a franchise who has more or less "struggled" offensively for basically two decades.

Joe's yards/attempt numbers were down from 2014 (7.2 in 2014, 6.8 in 2015), which is partially attributable to not throwing downfield, but also by throwing more often.

When you are averaging 41 pass attempts per game like Joe did, its pretty impossible not to set franchise records, both in terms of passing yards and in terms of total yards.

What we pretty much know for sure is that Joe becomes less efficient from a yards/attempt standpoint in years where he's asked to throw more. We all know his sweet spot is somewhere in the 30-35 attempts per game range.

Put it this way... if we have the same defensive struggles we had last season, and we aren't efficient at running the ball, we will set many franchise records on offense, especially in the passing yards, yardage and probably even points scored category. And, most likely, we will be a .500 or worse team in doing it. That's not to say that we can't set franchise records AND win, but certain records aren't good for the offense as a whole.

[Tank 92]

Sorry to continue off topic, but given the overall "quality" of the DBs he's had to work with, I'm not sure how anyone could judge how poorly or how well Dean has done since becoming DC. 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Tank 92

[The Mom Gene]

18 hours ago, ThatsMyJoeTerback said:

In terms of yardage, yes. But he was also on pace to throw 19 INTS, the worst since 2013. I think yardage isn't as important as throwing picks.

I will give it to you when you said Trestman did a good job working with what he had. He really developed Kamar Aiken well, for example.

Did Trestman develop Aiken?  I'd give that credit to Bobby Ingram...  Just sayin' I like Trestman.  He has done well.  Articles like this  just make The Baltimore Sun look soooo bad.

[flynismo]

2 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

Sorry to continue off topic, but given the overall "quality" of the DBs he's had to work with, I'm not sure how anyone could judge how poorly or how well he has done since becoming DC. 

The same way we judged Cam Cameron even though the OL was mediocre at best, and we had below average talent at the skill positions, outside of Rice.

[Tank 92]

7 minutes ago, flynismo said:

The same way we judged Cam Cameron even though the OL was mediocre at best, and we had below average talent at the skill positions, outside of Rice.

lol......OK, fair enough, but the analogy is a little shaky to me. 

So you're saying Boldin, Pitta, Flacco, etc. were below average? Seemed Caldwell did OK with them for a couple of games.  

[PurpleCorsair]

57 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

lol......OK, fair enough, but the analogy is a little shaky to me. 

So you're saying Boldin, Pitta, Flacco, etc. were below average? Seemed Caldwell did OK with them for a couple of games.  

Mason and Housh circa 2010 were below average.

[redrum52]

1 hour ago, flynismo said:

The same way we judged Cam Cameron even though the OL was mediocre at best, and we had below average talent at the skill positions, outside of Rice.

I'll give you the weapons before 2011, but the OL hasn't been mediocre at best.  The OL was easily above average the whole time Cam was here. 

[Tank 92]

6 minutes ago, PurpleCorsair said:

Mason and Housh circa 2010 were below average.

Now you did it.   Watch out!   lmao

[redrum52]

1 hour ago, January J said:

The secondary and lack of pass rush was obviously the cause for the lack of wins. They either couldn't hold a lead or would have us constantly playing fron behind which in turn caused us to abandon the run which also in turn hurt the play action pass. Yet and still we were on pace to set several franchise records. You can say they didn't pass your "eye test" but stats don't lie.

Hold a lead?  Lmao.  How often did we actually have a lead?  2nd, 2 of the first 3 games the defense were the ones who put us in position to get a lead, but let's stay on topic.

 

I don't think Trestman should be on the hot for a few reasons.  Asked to run someone else's PB. Lost his main speed threat and then continued to lose players throughout the season.  Also, I like having his daughters around.

[Deflated Football]

Think there's more pressure on Pees to be honest

[balfan23]

21 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

Think there's more pressure on Pees to be honest

Absolutely agree. Trestman is here for 1 year and the train going off the rails seemed to have little to do with him IMO. Defense has been a much larger concern over the past 2 years and injuries and lack of quality personnel have been to blame, but I think that excuse has been used up. There needs to be zero tolerance for games that even remotely resemble the tragic defensive performances we saw last year vs. OAK and CLE.

[jimmypowder]

51 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

Absolutely agree. Trestman is here for 1 year and the train going off the rails seemed to have little to do with him IMO. Defense has been a much larger concern over the past 2 years and injuries and lack of quality personnel have been to blame, but I think that excuse has been used up. There needs to be zero tolerance for games that even remotely resemble the tragic defensive performances we saw last year vs. OAK and CLE.

The problem I have with Trestman is he seems to get really conservative on 3 and 7. Lots of dump off passes to the running back and we get 2-4 

yards but not enough for a first down. 

That was also his MO in Chicago and he  was widely criticized for it. 

Edited September 7, 2016 by jimmypowder

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, jimmypowder said:

The problem I have with Trestman is he seems to get really conservative on 3 and 7. Lots of dump off passes to the running back and we get 2-4 

yards but not enough for a first down. 

That was also his MO in Chicago and he  was widely criticized for it. 

I'd say most likely that's not the designed read in that play call. Most likely that's the 2nd or 3rd option in the read, and the QB isn't finding an open receiver to make the completion at that depth.

[jimmypowder]

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I'd say most likely that's not the designed read in that play call. Most likely that's the 2nd or 3rd option in the read, and the QB isn't finding an open receiver to make the completion at that depth.

Well there is some truth to that but I'm guessing that in more cases than we know ,considering he likes backs that can catch,

that it is the first option. 

[rmcjacket23]

23 minutes ago, jimmypowder said:

Well there is some truth to that but I'm guessing that in more cases than we know ,considering he likes backs that can catch,

that it is the first option. 

Won't be hard to tell when watching game film this year. I would agree that would probably be the primary on like a 3rd and very long, maybe 10+ yards, depending on field position and gameflow. Many coaches to conservative there.

But on a 3rd and manageable like 3rd and 5-10 yards, my guess is that's not the primary route in that play.

[K-Dog]

6 hours ago, Deflated Football said:

Think there's more pressure on Pees to be honest

Agree, but I don't even think that is a whole lot.

[PurpleCity5]

Pressure on Trestman and not Pees? That's ridiculous, I'd give Trestman another shot before Pees unless the offense is a complete disaster and that seems very bold given the talent on this offense. This honestly could be the best offense we've ever had which is why he would get fired if we do terribly bad. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Preston's Baltimore sports version of TMZ. No real substance, just throws flaming doo doo at the wall and hopes it sticks with someone. 

Theres literally nothing to suggest Trestman's job is in jeopardy and the logic used to arrive at that conclusion... Well just isn't filled with much logic. 

If anyone's under pressure it's Pees. When Bisciotti gets involved he wants results. He excused defensive performance somewhat on a lack of pass rushers. The FO delivered by stocking up with some young talent, and we've returned veteran talent. 

If things don't improve in that area I think there will be some pressure from the top for a change. He demanded change in personnel to solve the problem. That's been done. After that, really, only one thing to change. 

Harbs history of sticking with guys may not matter too much if that becomes the case. Not a Pees hater. He's done a decent enough job with sub par talent in several areas and a terrible string of injuries to crucial pieces. But... I think it will be viewed that the right groceries are in the cart now. 

If the meal doesn't taste good, the chef may be looking for a job. 

The presence of Leslie Frazier only increases the pressure imo. I don't view his hire as a successor to Pees per se, but having a highly qualified replacement in house makes the change easier. Even more of an easy transition than having Caldwell in house when Cameron wasn't getting the job done. 

Especially if we see big strides in the secondary but pass rush, run defense, or other aspects suffer/don't improve -- I think its going to fall at Pees' feet. 

Edited September 8, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[kjbmore]

10 hours ago, redrum52 said:

And how were we looking turnover and wins wise?  The offense stunk last year.  Inconsistent and inefficient for most of the game.  You can try and tell me different but I watched the games.  We were in games mostly due to late surges that still resulted in Ls.

we played the entire season with NO SPEED OR DEPTH THREAT - Im looking at you Ozzie

a couple of kids at TE, patchwork line, not a great deal in the way of receiving talent and we still managed to have a respectable offense

now that we have balance and talent on all levels i think everything opens right up for  -  hitting wallace and aiken for some short intermediate stuff, a few slants, get some stuff going on the ground, get the defense biting up - opens everything up over the top and once we connect on that, now you want to sit deep, fine will just punch it down the middle, until you get sick of death by a million cuts and want to come up again, hit you over the top

commend trestman on what he acheived with no deep threat when that is our greatest strength - we signed friggn chris givens at the death and tried to trot him out - still looking at you Ozzie ( might have been a master plan to tank for a year though)

[redrum52]

14 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

we played the entire season with NO SPEED OR DEPTH THREAT - Im looking at you Ozzie

a couple of kids at TE, patchwork line, not a great deal in the way of receiving talent and we still managed to have a respectable offense

now that we have balance and talent on all levels i think everything opens right up for  -  hitting wallace and aiken for some short intermediate stuff, a few slants, get some stuff going on the ground, get the defense biting up - opens everything up over the top and once we connect on that, now you want to sit deep, fine will just punch it down the middle, until you get sick of death by a million cuts and want to come up again, hit you over the top

commend trestman on what he acheived with no deep threat when that is our greatest strength - we signed friggn chris givens at the death and tried to trot him out - still looking at you Ozzie ( might have been a master plan to tank for a year though)

For one, I defended Trestman.  I understand the problems that handcuffed the offense, but that doesn't make them any better.

 

Now let me ask everyone who claims the offense was so great, and telling me to look at the numbers... what are those numbers?  Was too lazy before, but decided to do some math.  With Flacco at qb, we averaged 22.6 points a game.  Please explain how that's "good" like you all claim, when league average was 22.8?  By comparison, Denver finished with 22.2ppg.  Would you also consider them a good offense?

[Inqui]

12 hours ago, berad said:

Preston's assumption Pees will be fine is very shaky, too, especially since the defense looked very familiar in the preseason. He even went from the box to the sideline so you know he is feeling he has to make adjustments.

Not to mention the theory (that I agree with) that Leslie Frazier was brought in as a ready-made interim DC if Pees doesn't step up his game and has to get canned. But if he does get a pink slip hopefully that has the same result as firing Cam did.

I'm theoretically not closed to the idea of firing Trestman, but he's only had one season and pretty much everything that could go wrong for him did go wrong. Not to mention that one of his biggest problems imo (red zone efficiency) was also an issue with Kubiak. If we fire Trestman, I'd hope it's after more than two seasons. We'd need a bloody good reason to put Joe on his 91,756,389th career OC.

Like you say, if this season turns out to be a complete flop I'd be more inclined to look at the other co-ordinator first. Not that I'd want him fired for the sake of it either.

[trevorsteadman]

Anybody else feel like the preseason, and I know it was PRESEASON, but now that Trestman now has his own playbook in Baltimore that all levels of the team moved the ball more consistently? I think most drives generated a good deal of yards. Sure in Flacco's 2 drives they only got 3 points after going for it on a 4th down but to me the team pops more on the screen and they all seem more comfortable... Maybe it is just me and maybe it was just preseason but Joe, Ryan, and Josh all moved the ball very well in their time in the preseason.