Merged: QBs you'd rather have than Flacco

[rmcjacket23]

4 minutes ago, I AM LEGEND said:

And the funny thing is I like Joe flacco..he's a good guy from what I can tell and he helped lead this team to a Superbowl that I will always hold dear to my heart.

 

But he's just not that good guys. Sorry. From a statistical view and just from his mechanics on the field.

1. He holds the ball too long( despite having a sub par line and coming off an injury)

2. This year and in years past he is extremely inaccurate.

3. Instead of throwing the ball away he'll throw it 3 yds behind the line of scrimmage to RB that wasn't ready.

4.his motions and mechanics after the snap are so so so slow.

5. He's never really used his ability to audible to help get us out of those questionable calls by questionable coordinators 

6. He has a rocket arm but constantly overthrows/under throws on deep balls.

7. He suffers from boneheaditis, where randomly he'll make one of the worst reads or plays of the game.

 

Its these things I've listed that lead to him statistically never having great numbers...

Its these things I've listed that have gotten 2 OCs fired and another one that was about to

Its these things that have our offense looking like the bad news bears.

 

 

And why do having statistical great numbers matter again?

(Hint: i'll use your very own stats against you)

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

On 10/9/2016 at 6:57 PM, kpfeiffe said:

I'll tell you what - the Eagles have a gamer in Carson Wentz. That kids is already making changes at the line of scrimmage. So, he's one. Carr is another. Brady of course, Rodgers, Russell Wilson.

Flack is OK. He's always been just OK. The deal is he is making $22 million this year and we can get the level of play he provides for less money/ That's all. This isn't personal, he simply now commands pay that is beyond what he produces on the field. 

Ok so save a few bucks and get Brock Osweiler. Have at it. 

or deal with 5 horrible years of picking in the top couple picks to get someone better and cheaper... and even then you'll be lucky if you get one in 5 tries. 

 

Love the complaints with with absolutely no solutions. 

[I AM LEGEND]

5 minutes ago, flynismo said:

I believe that. I'm glad you at least give him that much, and I'm proud that he was able to give you and the rest of us memories we will always cherish.

But your list?

#1 - 5 are all blatantly false, or in the case of #3, completely out of context, and all of that can be proven beyond reproach. I cannot argue against 6 and 7 though, although I would not say he "constantly" over/under throws those passes.

Wow.

 

Hey fly,

"just for giggles" ... I know this is a name 5 Qbs etc thread.... But can you name 5 things that you think Joe doesn't do well on the field or needs work on? 

And I swear if you can do that and not spontaneously combust.. I'll walk out of this thread and go post in the perriman thread or something.

[I AM LEGEND]

8 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

And why do having statistical great numbers matter again?

(Hint: i'll use your very own stats against you)

Having great stats doesn't matter ..  We're ravens fans... We've been to the promise land with flacco and dilfer.

 

But flaccos been playing for a decade. You mean to tell me he can't even accidentally trip and stumble into a good statistical year? 

[flynismo]

8 minutes ago, I AM LEGEND said:

Wow.

 

Hey fly,

"just for giggles" ... I know this is a name 5 Qbs etc thread.... But can you name 5 things that you think Joe doesn't do well on the field or needs work on? 

And I swear if you can do that and not spontaneously combust.. I'll walk out of this thread and go post in the perriman thread or something.

Easy.

1. Footwork

2. Accuracy on deep balls between hashes

3. Throw the ball away a little more often. Don't go overboard with that though.

4. When he's back to 100%, take more advantage of his natural athleticism and scramble a couple times each game, every game, not just once in a while

5. Work on his touch on fade passes

 

But please, don't leave. I'd much prefer you answer one of my previous questions -- what is false about those things that you listed as excuses?

Edited October 11, 2016 by flynismo

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, I AM LEGEND said:

Having great stats doesn't matter ..  We're ravens fans... We've been to the promise land with flacco and dilfer.

 

But flaccos been playing for a decade. You mean to tell me he can't even accidentally trip and stumble into a good statistical year? 

I suppose he could. I'm not sure why anybody would care if he did. He clearly doesn't get paid for having a good statistical year (most QBs don't), so I'm not sure what the gain is to be had there.

I mean don't you just want him to a have a good statistical season so that you can feel better about yourself? Is it a lack of self-esteem from Legend that is the problem?

[I AM LEGEND]

1 hour ago, flynismo said:

But please, don't leave. I'd much prefer you answer one of my previous questions -- what is false about those things that you listed as excuses?

There only excuses when people use them as a shield to deflect Joes poor play. They're factual. But they should also stand hand and hand next to joes performance.  But people on this board use them in hopes of no one pointing out flaccos flaws.

Example.

 

Was the play calling bad? Yes it was. Running should not have been abandoned on Sunday.

BUT 

All season long we've seen plays called and throws made well short of the first down...is that all on Trestman? No. If he calls a play on 3rd and 13 that sends 2-3 receivers past 13 yds but Joe decides he's gonna check it down to his RB or FB for 4 yds..that's on Joe. Of course an OC is gonna give a QB a check down "last resort" option.  Joe is taking that option quite a bit though 

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, I AM LEGEND said:

There only excuses when people use them as a shield to deflect Joes poor play. They're factual. But they should also stand hand and hand next to joes performance.  But people on this board use them in hopes of no one pointing out flaccos flaws.

Example.

 

Was the play calling bad? Yes it was. Running should not have been abandoned on Sunday.

BUT 

All season long we've seen plays called and throws made well short of the first down...is that all on Trestman? No. If he calls a play on 3rd and 13 that sends 2-3 receivers past 13 yds but Joe decides he's gonna check it down to his RB or FB for 4 yds..that's on Joe. Of course an OC is gonna give a QB a check down "last resort" option.  Joe is taking that option quite a bit though 

OK, and? What's the solution? 

Are you under the impression that people actually think firing Trestman solves the offenses problems entirely? 

Edited October 11, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[I AM LEGEND]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I suppose he could. I'm not sure why anybody would care if he did. He clearly doesn't get paid for having a good statistical year (most QBs don't), so I'm not sure what the gain is to be had there.

I mean don't you just want him to a have a good statistical season so that you can feel better about yourself? Is it a lack of self-esteem from Legend that is the problem?

Lol I just want him to throw more Touchdowns then balls at the feet of his receivers.

 

Is that too much to ask? Or should we still cuddle and baby the little guy?

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, I AM LEGEND said:

Lol I just want him to throw more Touchdowns then balls at the feet of his receivers.

 

Is that too much to ask? Or should we still cuddle and baby the little guy?

And why do you want that? Again, just for personal gratification?

If you want him to do that, it would seem that it should be for some logical reason, such as maybe winning more games because of it. But we pretty much already know that throwing a bunch of TD passes doesn't actually lead to winning more football games now don't we?

I mean that list is a mile long.

Edited October 11, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[I AM LEGEND]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

OK, and? What's the solution? 

Are you under the impression that people actually think firing Trestman solves the offenses problems entirely? 

on this board? yes.

Except after a couple more crappy average joe flacco games the babysitters here will just turn their attention to another part of the offense NOT named flacco. 

My guess is next we'll be talking about how horrible and ineffective our receivers are..

[I AM LEGEND]

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

And why do you want that? Again, just for personal gratification?

No for points on the scoreboard.... Smh

[jimmypowder]

On 10/9/2016 at 6:32 PM, GrimCoconut said:

College rule requires one foot. 

Still have to possibly drag one foot to make the play. 

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, I AM LEGEND said:

No for points on the scoreboard.... Smh

Has points on the scoreboard been a problem for the last 8+ years, or has it been a problem recently and fans are just extending it all the way back to the beginning of time to fit the narrative?

[rmcjacket23]

17 minutes ago, I AM LEGEND said:

on this board? yes.

Except after a couple more crappy average joe flacco games the babysitters here will just turn their attention to another part of the offense NOT named flacco. 

My guess is next we'll be talking about how horrible and ineffective our receivers are..

I noticed there's no solution in this post... any particular reason why you decided to dodge the difficult question? 

Skipped right past the hard part and went straight to blaming others. Not THAT is what fans on this board do a ton.

Edit: funny you should mention the receivers being ineffective, since they've graded out poorly by just about every possible metric and evaluator. But hey, the names on the back of their jerseys sure are sexy, and some of these guys were really good 5 years ago, so must be Joe's fault right? 

LOL.

Edited October 11, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[jboy19]

Waiting on I AM LEGEND to name his 15 QB's he'd rather have than Flacco like 

 

[DenverRaven]

Easy:

Montana

Young

Aikman

Peyton (early years)

Rdogers

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by DenverRaven

[I AM LEGEND]

56 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

Waiting on I AM LEGEND to name his 15 QB's he'd rather have than Flacco like 

 

Wentz

Rodgers

Brady

Luck

Newton

Ben

Rivers

Brees

Carr

A.smith

Prescott

Manning

Wilson

Ryan

Bradford

 

[DenverRaven]

1 minute ago, I AM LEGEND said:

Wentz

Rodgers 

Brady 

Luck 

Newton 

Ben 

Rivers 

Brees 

Carr 

A.smith 

Prescott 

Manning 

Wilson 

Ryan 

Bradford

 

Wentz - Small NFL sample size, but I like what I see so far, would not take him over Flacco though.

Rodgers - No questions here

Brady - Still no questions

Luck - Nope. Poor decisions.

Newton - No, doesn't fit our system/team

Ben - I can see this argument

Rivers - No

Brees - Maybe 7 years ago

Carr - What?

A.smith - Are you joking?

Prescott - What is this?

Manning - Which one?

Wilson - See Cam comment

Ryan - Eh, he's... Joe. Just not as elitey

Bradford - Huh? 

[Militant X 1]

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Big Ben

Tyrod Taylor

Cam Newton

My notable mentions: Russell Wilson and Matt Ryan

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

7 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

 

Tyrod Taylor

No.... he's not bad. But just no

[flynismo]

4 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

No.... he's not bad. But just no

Ha, just let Mili have that one before he has a stroke lol

[flynismo]

2 hours ago, I AM LEGEND said:

There only excuses when people use them as a shield to deflect Joes poor play. They're factual. But they should also stand hand and hand next to joes performance.  But people on this board use them in hopes of no one pointing out flaccos flaws.

Example.

 

Was the play calling bad? Yes it was. Running should not have been abandoned on Sunday.

BUT 

All season long we've seen plays called and throws made well short of the first down...is that all on Trestman? No. If he calls a play on 3rd and 13 that sends 2-3 receivers past 13 yds but Joe decides he's gonna check it down to his RB or FB for 4 yds..that's on Joe. Of course an OC is gonna give a QB a check down "last resort" option.  Joe is taking that option quite a bit though 

Okay, here's the problem --

I'm happy to see that you can acknowledge that all those things are not "excuses", and that our OL does indeed suck, and the playcalling has indeed been abhorrent and that our WRs indeed have underperformed drastically. I totally respect your honesty and open mindedness.

BUT

If those things are true, and you have agreed that they are, how does one place any accountability on Flacco with that being the case? To do so would completely ignore the context of the situation that we just established by talking about how bad the environment around him is. Perfect example:

Flacco throws a pass that lands at the feet of Pitta. That's Flacco's fault, right? Well, maybe not. The part nobody mentioned is that Flacco got hit as he was throwing because the OL refuses to give him time to make a good read and throw. How do we possibly hold Flacco accountable when we can all see plain as day that practically nobody else on offense is doing their jobs? Do we say, "Man up Flacco. You threw the ball, so you are responsible for where it lands." Technically, that would be correct to say. Logically, that is deceptive.

Things just aren't so black and white.

I mean, we actually do point out a handful of plays each game where Flacco screwed up. Flacco DOES make mistakes or bad throws every week and those are easily identifiable, and we get on him for that. The thing is, he does not make any more mistakes/poor throws than any other QB in the league.  In fact, if you watch other teams, he makes significantly less than most.

So that brings us full circle. Consider this scenario:

Last week is when Flacco threw that pass at Pitta's feet, on the final drive of the game that would have given us the win had we gotten in FG range (and assuming Tucker makes it).

Let's even say that poor pass was all on Flacco, for the sake of argument. Does it make any sense to blame Flacco for the loss when on the previous play, Perriman failed to make a catch, then on the next play, Wallace drops one too that would have given us the yardage we needed? Does it make sense to blame Flacco when earlier in the game, Perriman dropped a bomb that was an easy TD, and would have made the difference in a game we lost by 6? There's plenty more plays that I could cite, but the point here is that if the people around him are making the vast majority of the mistakes, it seems illogical to even mention that "by the way, Flacco threw that pass right into Pitta's feet".

We can and do hold Flacco for his screwups. But it is very clear what the problems are, and that is why people always point out the poor OL, the poor WR play, the abhorrent playcalling --- because all these things prevent Flacco from putting up those mystical stats that you want to see from him.

[trevorsteadman]

5 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Okay, here's the problem --

I'm happy to see that you can acknowledge that all those things are not "excuses", and that our OL does indeed suck, and the playcalling has indeed been abhorrent and that our WRs indeed have underperformed drastically. I totally respect your honesty and open mindedness.

BUT

If those things are true, and you have agreed that they are, how does one place any accountability on Flacco with that being the case? To do so would completely ignore the context of the situation that we just established by talking about how bad the environment around him is. Perfect example:

Flacco throws a pass that lands at the feet of Pitta. That's Flacco's fault, right? Well, maybe not. The part nobody mentioned is that Flacco got hit as he was throwing because the OL refuses to give him time to make a good read and throw. How do we possibly hold Flacco accountable when we can all see plain as day that practically nobody else on offense is doing their jobs? Do we say, "Man up Flacco. You threw the ball, so you are responsible for where it lands." Technically, that would be correct to say. Logically, that is deceptive.

Things just aren't so black and white.

I mean, we actually do point out a handful of plays each game where Flacco screwed up. Flacco DOES make mistakes or bad throws every week and those are easily identifiable, and we get on him for that. The thing is, he does not make any more mistakes/poor throws than any other QB in the league.  In fact, if you watch other teams, he makes significantly less than most.

So that brings us full circle. Consider this scenario:

Last week is when Flacco threw that pass at Pitta's feet, on the final drive of the game that would have given us the win had we gotten in FG range (and assuming Tucker makes it).

Let's even say that poor pass was all on Flacco, for the sake of argument. Does it make any sense to blame Flacco for the loss when on the previous play, Perriman failed to make a catch, then on the next play, Wallace drops one too that would have given us the yardage we needed? Does it make sense to blame Flacco when earlier in the game, Perriman dropped a bomb that was an easy TD, and would have made the difference in a game we lost by 6? There's plenty more plays that I could cite, but the point here is that if the people around him are making the vast majority of the mistakes, it seems illogical to even mention that "by the way, Flacco threw that pass right into Pitta's feet".

We can and do hold Flacco for his screwups. But it is very clear what the problems are, and that is why people always point out the poor OL, the poor WR play, the abhorrent playcalling --- because all these things prevent Flacco from putting up those mystical stats that you want to see from him.

I'm glad I am not the only person who thinks this way.

[codizzle]

1 hour ago, Militant X 1 said:

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Big Ben

Tyrod Taylor

Cam Newton

My notable mentions: Russell Wilson and Matt Ryan

You just love you some Tyrod.. you see the video of him lining up behind the guard this week. It reminded me of pee wee football 

 

my five I'd say are probably better overall than joe but Rodgers/Brady are only ones I'd take over joe

Rodgers 

brady 

Ben

Brees 

Newton

 

[flynismo]

10 minutes ago, codizzle said:

You just love you some Tyrod.. you see the video of him lining up behind the guard this week. It reminded me of pee wee football 

 

my five I'd say are probably better overall than joe but Rodgers/Brady are only ones I'd take over joe

Rodgers 

brady 

Ben

Brees 

Newton

 

When you say you'd take x-player over Flacco, is it to play in our system, or are they bringin' their playbooks with them?

Rodgers' insane ability to throw on the run is the reason I think he is the only person in the league who would play better than Flacco does in this system and with this cast.

[harfordravenfan]

12 minutes ago, flynismo said:

When you say you'd take x-player over Flacco, is it to play in our system, or are they bringin' their playbooks with them?

Rodgers' insane ability to throw on the run is the reason I think he is the only person in the league who would play better than Flacco does in this system and with this cast.

Agreed, and could you imagine brady behind our current o-line and receivers that usually take time to get open

[OUravensfan]

People keep saying Flaccos been inaccurate particularly on deep balls this year, well I'll give you the deep ball to Moore vs Oakland but everything else has been money and typically dropped. Moore vs Cleveland (dropped), Wallace vs BUF (TD), Perriman x2 vs WSH (both not caught), Wallace vs JAX (dropped). 

I just don't see it. Watch other games and witness WRs get separation, Jaws was right, the degree of difficulty that is consistently required on Flacco's throws is so under appreciated because simple minded people can only understand a stat ranking not understanding the context of those stats, it's maddening. 

Not to mention we haven't even seen that many deep balls this year. 

Edited October 11, 2016 by OUravensfan

[flynismo]

6 minutes ago, harfordravenfan said:

Agreed, and could you imagine brady behind our current o-line and receivers that usually take time to get open

I love imagining Brady playing here...because I find it amusing to watch grown men curl into a fetal position  

Edited October 11, 2016 by flynismo

[OUravensfan]

2 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Big Ben

Tyrod Taylor

Cam Newton

My notable mentions: Russell Wilson and Matt Ryan

Come on Mili, you're just mad you drove up for the Oakland game and we lost or else you wouldn't be putting Tyrod in this list.