Merged: QBs you'd rather have than Flacco

[flynismo]

57 minutes ago, GhostofGrbac said:

I'm factoring in contracts. Give me Dalton at $13M over Flacco at $22M any day of the week. 

$9M difference is no joke. It'd depend on who I can get with that money, I'd certainly consider it.

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, flynismo said:

$9M difference is no joke. It'd depend on who I can get with that money, I'd certainly consider it.

LOL, its like 6% of the salary cap. For much better playoff production and success its a no brainer, which is why most teams do it.

[GhostofGrbac]

2 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Or Stafford

I'm assuming you haven't watched Stafford much? 68%, 1,378 yards, 7.6 avg, 10 td's 4 int's, 99.6 QB rating this season. All that with no running game and Marvin Jones as his only weapon on offense. We can even look at last season: 67.2%, 4,262 yards, 7.2 avg, 34 td's 13 int's, 97 QB rating. Numbers that Joe has never come close to putting up. 

Joe hasn't led us to the playoffs in soon to be 3 of the last 4 years. He has a 26-27 record since becoming the highest paid player (at the time). With his contract Joe should be carrying this team and elevating the players around him. He's not doing that. 

[JO_75]

Give Me Flacco any day of the week. Joe has shown that all we have to do is get to January. With our defense and we get the offense figured out, there is not a single QB I'd rather have than January Joe.

[flynismo]

13 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

LOL, its like 6% of the salary cap. For much better playoff production and success its a no brainer, which is why most teams do it.

Yeah, forgot about the whole postseason thing...minor detail..heh

[flynismo]

11 minutes ago, GhostofGrbac said:

I'm assuming you haven't watched Stafford much? 68%, 1,378 yards, 7.6 avg, 10 td's 4 int's, 99.6 QB rating this season. All that with no running game and Marvin Jones as his only weapon on offense. We can even look at last season: 67.2%, 4,262 yards, 7.2 avg, 34 td's 13 int's, 97 QB rating. Numbers that Joe has never come close to putting up. 

Joe hasn't led us to the playoffs in soon to be 3 of the last 4 years. He has a 26-27 record since becoming the highest paid player (at the time). With his contract Joe should be carrying this team and elevating the players around him. He's not doing that. 

I watch him plenty, he's on one of my fantasy teams. It's an absolute joke to put him in the same universe as Flacco.

[Bandwagon]

58 minutes ago, baroquenspirit said:

Do you guys look around at the league at Quarterback play? Joe may not be great, but he has accomplished a heck of a lot more than most QBs who started for NFL teams today. 

guess you didnt get the joke 

 

[rmcjacket23]

35 minutes ago, GhostofGrbac said:

I'm assuming you haven't watched Stafford much? 68%, 1,378 yards, 7.6 avg, 10 td's 4 int's, 99.6 QB rating this season. All that with no running game and Marvin Jones as his only weapon on offense. We can even look at last season: 67.2%, 4,262 yards, 7.2 avg, 34 td's 13 int's, 97 QB rating. Numbers that Joe has never come close to putting up. 

Joe hasn't led us to the playoffs in soon to be 3 of the last 4 years. He has a 26-27 record since becoming the highest paid player (at the time). With his contract Joe should be carrying this team and elevating the players around him. He's not doing that. 

Ugh. Where to begin...

1. Its 2016. Nobody cares about completion percentage, yardage, or Passer rating. They're horrific measurements of QB success. Passer rating isn't even a statistic people take seriously. 

2. If you claim to be taking contracts into account, then lets do that. Why no mention of 2013, when Stafford made $18.5M and had 23 turnovers? Or in 2012, when he had more turnovers than passing TDs? Why no mention of those?

Are we also just going to ignore the Lions record during Stafford's tenure as well? I thought QBs as good as him were supposed to elevate their team to a level where they'd start winning games, no?

3. No weapons? Golden Tate isn't a weapon? So those 100 catches and 1300 yards two years ago isn't enough to classify him as a weapon? 

I'd trade their WR core for ours straight up in a heartbeat, and so would Flacco.

4. I think Torrey Smith kind of debunked the whole "Joe doesn't elevate the players around him" theory. I think that one's been officially put to bed.

5. Isn't a QB in the league that carries his team. That includes all the "great" one's... Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc. They aren't individually carrying anything. When their teammates don't play well, they lose. I can fire examples after examples out of a cannon of this for eternity.

Fans that think that just simply don't understand football. 

Edited October 10, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[K-Dog]

I am convinced Joe is only a small percentage of the issue at this moment.

Not enough to have this conversation at least. 

[BmoreRavens732]

44 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Ugh. Where to begin...

1. Its 2016. Nobody cares about completion percentage, yardage, or Passer rating. They're horrific measurements of QB success. Passer rating isn't even a statistic people take seriously. 

2. If you claim to be taking contracts into account, then lets do that. Why no mention of 2013, when Stafford made $18.5M and had 23 turnovers? Or in 2012, when he had more turnovers than passing TDs? Why no mention of those?

Are we also just going to ignore the Lions record during Stafford's tenure as well? I thought QBs as good as him were supposed to elevate their team to a level where they'd start winning games, no?

3. No weapons? Golden Tate isn't a weapon? So those 100 catches and 1300 yards two years ago isn't enough to classify him as a weapon? 

I'd trade their WR core for ours straight up in a heartbeat, and so would Flacco.

4. I think Torrey Smith kind of debunked the whole "Joe doesn't elevate the players around him" theory. I think that one's been officially put to bed.

5. Isn't a QB in the league that carries his team. That includes all the "great" one's... Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc. They aren't individually carrying anything. When their teammates don't play well, they lose. I can fire examples after examples out of a cannon of this for eternity.

Fans that think that just simply don't understand football. 

This right here sir? Plus 10000000000000000000

[sflegend89]

2 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

 

Did you not see him run and get the first down today? He doesn't run often but  he usually  average 30+ rushing attempts per year. 

He still isn't mobile enough to be effective with our current OL/scheme. Look at how much better a guy his size like Ben is at escaping the pocket and extending plays. It seems like since the ACL Flacco is helpless against the slightest bit of pressure. He looks like he's stuck in the mud trying to manuever the pocket this season.

[callahan09]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Ugh. Where to begin...

1. Its 2016. Nobody cares about completion percentage, yardage, or Passer rating. They're horrific measurements of QB success. Passer rating isn't even a statistic people take seriously. 

2. If you claim to be taking contracts into account, then lets do that. Why no mention of 2013, when Stafford made $18.5M and had 23 turnovers? Or in 2012, when he had more turnovers than passing TDs? Why no mention of those?

Are we also just going to ignore the Lions record during Stafford's tenure as well? I thought QBs as good as him were supposed to elevate their team to a level where they'd start winning games, no?

3. No weapons? Golden Tate isn't a weapon? So those 100 catches and 1300 yards two years ago isn't enough to classify him as a weapon? 

I'd trade their WR core for ours straight up in a heartbeat, and so would Flacco.

4. I think Torrey Smith kind of debunked the whole "Joe doesn't elevate the players around him" theory. I think that one's been officially put to bed.

5. Isn't a QB in the league that carries his team. That includes all the "great" one's... Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc. They aren't individually carrying anything. When their teammates don't play well, they lose. I can fire examples after examples out of a cannon of this for eternity.

Fans that think that just simply don't understand football. 

Keep fighting the good fight.  I strongly agree with you.  I don't understand all the Flacco hate, but it frustrates the heck out of me.  I watched today's game and then looked at the message boards and was legitimately SHOCKED at how much of the discussion is criticizing Joe and saying he's not the guy for this team.  Joe is by far the least of our worries.  He delivered a hell of a deep ball to Perriman today that was... DROPPED.  Could have been a huge TD.    End of the game, he does it again, but Perriman can't tap his toe in bounds, then Wallace DROPS the 4th down pass.  There has been an absurd amount of vital, key dropped passes this season that would have been utterly game-changing.  But let's blame Flacco.  Sure.  Right.  He has no pass protection, no pocket, and the receivers are getting draped downfield so he has only the tightest of windows to try to throw the ball into or just settle for a check down that for some reason our "playmakers" can never make a yard after the catch on.  It's a pretty pathetic offense, of course, but Flacco, again, is not the problem in it.

Edited October 10, 2016 by callahan09

[sflegend89]

2 hours ago, Mad Puppy said:

Joe is Average Joe.

Personally I would prefer more fire during the game.I think the rest of the team lack a killer instinct as a result.

I was all aboard when Flacco had the best playoff and Superbowl run ever. But in all honesty he is not top 10 in the league, He really needs a good team around him. That just isn't present on this team. Inability to keep good players past their rookie contract is really showing at this point.

Agreed, Flacco doesn't have the fire in his belly this year. Looks so non chalant about crippling incompletions and miscues. We know he's not a vocal leader but at the very least show some emotion on the field. The whole offense seems to suffer off getting no emotional fire from their default leader. 

As much as I hate Brady the guy is a competitor in the truest sense of the word, Flacco doesn't want to win bad enough. Even Derek Carr has out competed him in back to back years. Not accusing Joe of a lack of effort but he doesn't go above and beyond to win by any means necessary. Haven't seen that killer instinct in him since the 2012 post season.

[FoxRox75]

I stand behind Joe. He's very flawed, and he's had his struggles these last couple seasons, but I think

a ) Trestman has a LOT to do with that, considering how good Flacco was with Kubiak in 2014, and 

b ) The offensive line has NOT been good, and neither has the running game most of the time.

Joe isn't perfect, for sure, but he's still got a lot of talent. Considering his postseason track-record especially, I don't care to pick anyone over Joe. He isn't the best QB in the regular season, but still, I think he's one of the least of the Ravens' problems at the moment. No QB is perfect.

[flynismo]

10 minutes ago, sflegend89 said:

Flacco doesn't want to win bad enough

I have officially heard it all now. Seriously dude, this is scraping the bottom of the barrel here...even the Flacco trolls wouldn't go that far.

[GhostofGrbac]

21 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Ugh. Where to begin...

1. Its 2016. Nobody cares about completion percentage, yardage, or Passer rating. They're horrific measurements of QB success. Passer rating isn't even a statistic people take seriously. 

2. If you claim to be taking contracts into account, then lets do that. Why no mention of 2013, when Stafford made $18.5M and had 23 turnovers? Or in 2012, when he had more turnovers than passing TDs? Why no mention of those?

Are we also just going to ignore the Lions record during Stafford's tenure as well? I thought QBs as good as him were supposed to elevate their team to a level where they'd start winning games, no?

3. No weapons? Golden Tate isn't a weapon? So those 100 catches and 1300 yards two years ago isn't enough to classify him as a weapon? 

I'd trade their WR core for ours straight up in a heartbeat, and so would Flacco.

4. I think Torrey Smith kind of debunked the whole "Joe doesn't elevate the players around him" theory. I think that one's been officially put to bed.

5. Isn't a QB in the league that carries his team. That includes all the "great" one's... Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc. They aren't individually carrying anything. When their teammates don't play well, they lose. I can fire examples after examples out of a cannon of this for eternity.

Fans that think that just simply don't understand football. 

1. Plenty of people care about statistics. They obviously don't tell the whole story, but to act like they mean absolutely nothing is just wrong. 

2. Stafford's 23 turnovers in 2013 is one less than Flacco that year. Flacco made $30M that season ($1M base salary, $29M signing bonus). We can go back and compare stats all we want. At this point right now I feel like Stafford is the better QB. 

I'm not ignoring the Lions record during Stafford's tenure. I know it's not as good as Flacco's here, but you also need to look at it in context. The Ravens organization is much better than the Lions organization. The Lions had so many high draft picks that have failed/are no longer on the team. With a competent front office the Lions would have been much better IMO. 

3. I was referring to this season when I said he has no weapons. Golden Tate has a whopping 17 catches for 134 yards. Even last season he wasn't anything special (90 catches 813 yards, 6 td's). It's a nice piece, but I wouldn't say he's been a legit stud weapon recently. I will agree though that what he did in 2014 was impressive.

4. I'll give you Torrey even though he was just an average WR here. Side note: it's a shame he chose to chase the money. Completely understandable, but his career has fallen off a cliff. 

5. Obviously 1 player isn't going to technically carry a team, but 1 player can have a huge part in how well a team does. Like Brees when the Saints were good. They were good because Brees lead that offense. 

We're clearly not going to agree, but I appreciate the civil discussion.

[izvoodoo]

4 hours ago, jimmypowder said:

They do teach that in college, don't they? 

No, one foot is inbounds in college.

[GhostofGrbac]

1 minute ago, flynismo said:

I have officially heard it all now. Seriously dude, this is scraping the bottom of the barrel here...even the Flacco trolls wouldn't go that far.

Yeah that's going a little too far. Joe might not show it, but all he wants to do is win. Go look at Cutler is you want to see a guy that doesn't want to win bad enough. 

[flynismo]

1 minute ago, GhostofGrbac said:

1. Plenty of people care about statistics. They obviously don't tell the whole story, but to act like they mean absolutely nothing is just wrong. 

5. Obviously 1 player isn't going to technically carry a team, but 1 player can have a huge part in how well a team does. Like Brees when the Saints were good. They were good because Brees lead that offense. 

1. They tell whatever story you want it to, that is why nobody takes stats as anything more than a career accomplishment thing, not as a measure of talent or impact on the field.

5. Tell that to the Flacco trolls. It's a team sport when we win, it's on Joe when we lose.

[BmoreBird22]

3 hours ago, flynismo said:

I wish I could upvote this into oblivion. This fan base truly pisses me off.

I'll say this, I disagree with you a bit; not a whole lot, but sometimes. At least when I disagree with you, it's things that are based on reality. Things we can argue about and respond to each other with...facts, logic. Guys like you-know-who are all too common.

Yeah, if I'm going to disagree, it's more the analysis of what happened on the field.

As far as FO decisions, can't really say too much.

[BmoreBird22]

27 minutes ago, sflegend89 said:

He still isn't mobile enough to be effective with our current OL/scheme. Look at how much better a guy his size like Ben is at escaping the pocket and extending plays. It seems like since the ACL Flacco is helpless against the slightest bit of pressure. He looks like he's stuck in the mud trying to manuever the pocket this season.

Convinced you didn't watch the game today...

[PurpleCity5]

The day that Joe retires and we're looking for a new QB, scouring for season after season going through 2nd and 3rd stringers, when that day arrives, I really would love to hear what you guys will have to say. 

[BmoreBird22]

What quarterbacks would I rather have...?

1. Big Ben
2. Dalton
3. McCown
4. Hoyer
5. Stafford
6. Rodgers
7. Bradford
8. Wentz
9. Manning
10. Cousins
11. Prescott
12. Taylor
13. Brady
14. Tannehill
15. Fitzmagic
16. Bortles
17. Luck
18. Mariota
19. Osweiler
20. Smith
21. Lynch
22. Rivers
23. Carr
24. Wilson
25. Stanton
26. Keenum
27. Gabbert
28. Ryan
29. Newton
30. Brees
31. Winston

Honorable mentions to....

1. Palmer
2. Bridgewater
3. Romo
4. RG Knee
5. Cutler

Did I miss anyone?

 

[flynismo]

17 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

What quarterbacks would I rather have...?

1. Big Ben
2. Dalton
3. McCown
4. Hoyer
5. Stafford
6. Rodgers
7. Bradford
8. Wentz
9. Manning
10. Cousins
11. Prescott
12. Taylor
13. Brady
14. Tannehill
15. Fitzmagic
16. Bortles
17. Luck
18. Mariota
19. Osweiler
20. Smith
21. Lynch
22. Rivers
23. Carr
24. Wilson
25. Stanton
26. Keenum
27. Gabbert
28. Ryan
29. Newton
30. Brees
31. Winston

Honorable mentions to....

1. Palmer
2. Bridgewater
3. Romo
4. RG Knee
5. Cutler

Did I miss anyone?

 

trevor siemian

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, flynismo said:

trevor siemian

Damn, knew I forgot one

[flynismo]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

Damn, knew I forgot one

you also forgot to add Wentz twice. He's the new Andrew Luck, except better

[allblackraven]

5 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Damn, knew I forgot one

Terrelle Pryor threw few passes as well.

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, allblackraven said:

Terrelle Pryor threw few passes as well.

And we know he's mobile, which people here REALLY value. Better grab Kaep before Kelly gets smart.

[Edgar]

7 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Damn, knew I forgot one

Mallett?

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Mallett?

He hasn't taken a snap yet, but may with how bad Flacco has been.