Merged: QBs you'd rather have than Flacco

[ALPHA]

54 minutes ago, K-Dog said:

THIS.

You fix that o-line, you fix Flacco.

Granted I think he is getting a case of Boller-itus.  He is getting shell shocked from getting hit too much or running for his life on every single snap.  I am sure it gets old fast.  Hopefully this line can get its crap together before it is too late for Joe.

I don't think this is going to happen, we had opportunities to upgrade the oline in free agency but we rolled the dice and lost. Unfortunately we don't have a QB who can make anyone look like world beaters or who thrives when the pocket breaks down, but we could do a hell of a lot worse.

[K-Dog]

54 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

He would always do that in the past  dude just seems so shell shocked. Usually QB's go and refine their mechanics after an injury like this but he looks so bad this season 

I just hope he has not contracted Boller-itus. 

[rmcjacket23]

12 hours ago, Steve0x said:

YES!!! Flacco isn't worth that money. Give him two options. Take a pay cut or you go on the trading block.

Neither of which helps this team.

Do you people even attempt to understand how the salary cap works?

[Rav'n Maniac]

Sure the line is bad and the pressure/hits are certainly affecting Flacco but, this is the worse I've ever seen his mechanics. He is using strictly arm strength to throw with and he mostly seems off balance or throwing off his back foot. 

This needs to be fixed as well as the blocking.

[AsianRice]

3 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

Sure the line is bad and the pressure/hits are certainly affecting Flacco but, this is the worse I've ever seen his mechanics. He is using strictly arm strength to throw with and he mostly seems off balance or throwing off his back foot. 

This needs to be fixed as well as the blocking.

What can you do when you center was beat left to right? Stepping up? Zuttah would be like "hello? give me space so I can fall on every snap.....

[OUravensfan]

Would a different QB make the line block and make WRs get open more?

[redrum52]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Neither of which helps this team.

Do you people even attempt to understand how the salary cap works?

I turn that pesky thing off when I play madden...

 

 

 

 

[GrimCoconut]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Neither of which helps this team.

Do you people even attempt to understand how the salary cap works?

Don't waste your time reasoning with him. He clearly doesn't understand economics or how the NFL salary cap and guaranteed money works. You may as well talk to the carpet: 

[Rav'n Maniac]

2 hours ago, AsianRice said:

What can you do when you center was beat left to right? Stepping up? Zuttah would be like "hello? give me space so I can fall on every snap.....

Oh, ok, it's the centers' fault that Joe has bad mechanics and footwork. That make's sense. Got it!

[rmcjacket23]

18 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

Oh, ok, it's the centers' fault that Joe has bad mechanics and footwork. That make's sense. Got it!

Nope.

It is the center's fault that he constantly gets pushed around and occasionally trips his QB who is trying to do a fundamental hand off.

A QB change alone isn't going to make this team significantly better, just like a Center change alone won't either.

[balfan23]

It is hard to make any excuses for him when he looked as bad as he looked yesterday. I don't know that he was under duress on all the plays that he made horrible decisions and missed open receivers. There were times when he was letting the ball go too late and not too early ... which doesn't argue for lack of protection. 

There were times when a play was there to be made and he failed to make it. We all know that in order to win, you need playmakers and if your franchise QB is not one of them ... that's a problem. 

All we can do is hope he wakes up, because he's our QB for the foreseeable future and beyond. 

[PurpleHorseman]

I do think when Stanley and Yanda return the line should improve and Flacco with it. No surprise that Flacco plays very well when his OL plays very well. Even with mediocre WR's. You know, I thought it was crazy to pay a guard over $10million annually. But when we get to thinking the cost to finding somebody to anchor the interior it could be more lucrative. And for a player that odds are against being as good as the player he is replacing. 

Especially when we get to thinking the resources that the ravens will spend on the OL. We could be talking 2 picks in the early rounds and or free agency. When we could be using those assets to pick players on various positions of need. It may have set the teams building back a little. Because we are adressing and fixing a position that could have been set for a while. 

 

[Tank 92]

As posted in another thread, time and better OL play will hopefully fix Joe. 

[Rav'n Maniac]

34 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Nope.

It is the center's fault that he constantly gets pushed around and occasionally trips his QB who is trying to do a fundamental hand off.

A QB change alone isn't going to make this team significantly better, just like a Center change alone won't either.

Agreed. A QB change isn't the answer, as I said above fixing the OL along with Joes' mechanics would definitely help to get us going in the right direction.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Rav'n Maniac

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, balfan23 said:

It is hard to make any excuses for him when he looked as bad as he looked yesterday. I don't know that he was under duress on all the plays that he made horrible decisions and missed open receivers. There were times when he was letting the ball go too late and not too early ... which doesn't argue for lack of protection. 

There were times when a play was there to be made and he failed to make it. We all know that in order to win, you need playmakers and if your franchise QB is not one of them ... that's a problem. 

All we can do is hope he wakes up, because he's our QB for the foreseeable future and beyond. 

Honestly was fine with his play in the 1st half. 

In the 2nd half... looked like the backyard QB in a touch football game who knows the defense has to count to 3 mississippi before they can rush, and when they get halfway through the final mississippi, they throw the ball into the turf to avoid getting hit.

 

[balfan23]

28 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Honestly was fine with his play in the 1st half. 

In the 2nd half... looked like the backyard QB in a touch football game who knows the defense has to count to 3 mississippi before they can rush, and when they get halfway through the final mississippi, they throw the ball into the turf to avoid getting hit.

 

Whatever positive that happened in the 1st half was erased by that 2nd half. That's as inept a performance as we've seen out of this offense in a long, long time. 

So - what you are saying is that Joe determined that our pass protection isn't good, so whether there is pressure or not on a given play, he's going to assume that it will be and panic? Not exactly what you'd call poise. There were a number of plays when he had time, he had a receiver and he threw a terrible ball.

I'm not saying that the lack of o line protection (whether that protection comes in the form of enabling the team to generate more than 10 yards rushing or keeping a clean pocket) isn't a major part of our woes. Still, to think that Flacco doesn't bear some level of responsibility to our current malaise is naivete, denial or a case of trying to hard to play devil's advocate. 

Flacco himself does not disagree. I don't think his comments are lip service - he truly believes that his play is well below his own expectations. I think for us to continue to make excuses for him is pointless. He's not playing well and when he says "I've got to play better", I think we should believe him. 

[AvianBrain]

I have to wonder if Joe has not fully recovered mentally from the injury. He made a point of saying all off-season he did not know how he would respond to getting hit again. It has become painfully obvious how he responds to getting hit. Maybe with time he will come back, or with better protection. At this point, as fans we should be worried that Joe may never be "January" Joe again if he does not regain his mental toughness. If the OL does not improve or the OC does not find ways to get the run game going and the ball out sooner, Joe will continue to get hit and may never get his head back into the game.

[rmcjacket23]

39 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

Whatever positive that happened in the 1st half was erased by that 2nd half. That's as inept a performance as we've seen out of this offense in a long, long time. 

So - what you are saying is that Joe determined that our pass protection isn't good, so whether there is pressure or not on a given play, he's going to assume that it will be and panic? Not exactly what you'd call poise. There were a number of plays when he had time, he had a receiver and he threw a terrible ball.

I'm not saying that the lack of o line protection (whether that protection comes in the form of enabling the team to generate more than 10 yards rushing or keeping a clean pocket) isn't a major part of our woes. Still, to think that Flacco doesn't bear some level of responsibility to our current malaise is naivete, denial or a case of trying to hard to play devil's advocate. 

Flacco himself does not disagree. I don't think his comments are lip service - he truly believes that his play is well below his own expectations. I think for us to continue to make excuses for him is pointless. He's not playing well and when he says "I've got to play better", I think we should believe him. 

Pretty much yes, this is my assessment. I don't think he's 100% of the time expecting pressure when there isn't anything remotely close to it, but I think he's expecting it most of the time even when its not at a level where it should affect his throws as often. That and a combination of what seems to be an internal clock of "I've got to get this ball out now" that seems to be off. Either his clock is going off too soon in situations where it shouldn't, or not fast enough in situations where it should.

I don't think there's a single person that has watched him play for most of this season and can say "yes, I think he's playing well". I'm not sure I would consider saying that the Oline has played poorly as an excuse per say, because similarly, no person that has watched this team play this season thinks our Oline has played well either.

As usual, its a combination of both. But as far as I see it, the Oline needing to play better likely has to happen first. There's plenty of QBs who play poorly behind average or even good offensive lines... that's when you know you've got a bad QB. There aren't many, if any, QBs who play well consistently behind a poor offensive line, and we've known for years that our QB specifically is somebody who is very much dependent on the Oline to give him the ability to do what he wants to do.

If the offensive line starts playing well, and Joe continues to struggle with mechanics and accuracy issues, then there is absolutely nowhere left to hide and all of it will be on him, and rightfully so.

[ellicottraven]

I don't believe Joe is going anywhere. He is in a funk right now either because QBs go into playing funks for a duration or because he isn't fully recovered from his injury or is tentative about it. In any case, I don't think he is going anywhere. Our best case scenario if he continues to underperform and is becoming a liability on offense is to try Mallet at QB but Mallet isn't going to be any better than an unhealthy Joe imo.

[GhostofGrbac]

Which QB are you taking right now?

QB A: 237 attempts, 62%, 1,708 yards, 8 td's 10 int's, 7.2 avg, 77.5 QB rating

QB B: 308 attempts, 61.4%, 1,837 yards, 5 td's 6 int's, 6 avg, 75.4 QB rating

[BmoreBird22]

Depends on what their weapons are and offensive lines are. Can't make this choice in a pure vacuum.

But I'll take B. Case Keenum isn't anything special, even if you think his stats are good.

Edited October 24, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[rmcjacket23]

Well player A is Case Keenum and player B is Joe Flacco.

So I'll take the guy who's actually proven to play well in his career.

I do find it funny that like half of the stats you referenced have absolutely nothing to do with quality QB play whatsoever, but nice try.

Edited October 24, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[Bandwagon]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well player A is Case Keenum and player B is Joe Flacco.

So I'll take the guy who's actually proven to play well in his career.

But nice try though.

two good seasons haHAA

[Ravenseconbeast]

Pretty astounding how much excuse Flacco can get from his fans.    Its the same thing every single week.

How much do you want to bet that same fan will put that support on any other player in this organization?  

I'd be very surprised any of the flaccopologist will give that kind of support to any player/coach in this organization.   You are simply a fan of Flacco, not a fan of this organization.  The moment we won the superbowl, I knew we had to part ways from that 120m QB.  That just isn't how our organization is built to win a superbowl.  

"Right price for the right player" mantra.  Where did that go??? That faded away soon as we gave up and let Joe and Linta and his fan crash this organization.  From there it just trickled down from there.  Why are we are holding our chip on a player that will NEVER EVER amount to that +23m/yr money?  Cut the losses and we MUST do it early.   Wait till 2019?? ARE YOU KIDDING???

If you care about having Ravens get back to winning superbowls and seeing this organization of being FEARED, we have to get back ourselves into what use to work.  Joe on rookie QB was fine.  Going to AFCC every year was every fans expectation not too long ago.  Now we'd be lucky to expect winning close game vs. a losing team.  NO WAY.  I will not relent to that kind of expectation.

Now draft a new QB and eat the dump Joe and his agent laid out on this organization and move on.   Fans of flacco can move with him, b/c 90% of those fans can give a HOOT about how rest of this organization and the players are doing.  The comparison of accountability on those same fan's mouth with joe vs every other player/coach is hilarious.   Get out of here, enjoy ur new team and your joe flacco.  I will be rooting for this organization and that ONLY.

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Edited October 24, 2016 by Ravenseconbeast

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, Bandwagon said:

two good seasons haHAA

Well five, but, who's counting.

[GhostofGrbac]

12 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well player A is Case Keenum and player B is Joe Flacco.

So I'll take the guy who's actually proven to play well in his career.

I do find it funny that like half of the stats you referenced have absolutely nothing to do with quality QB play whatsoever, but nice try.

Apparently reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Notice how I said right now?

I look forward to your snarky, know it all response. That seems to be your schtick on here. 

[OUravensfan]

Let's just get Dalton instead, did you see that beautiful TD pass to AJ Green, right where only his WR can make a play. Dalton doesn't need players around him to be good, only Flacco needs that.

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, GhostofGrbac said:

Apparently reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Notice how I said right now?

I look forward to your snarky, know it all response. That seems to be your schtick on here. 

Why would I care which QB I want right now? Are they going to stop playing football anytime soon?

Did the NFL announce today that they are switching to a DFS format where we can just buy a new QB every week depending on matchups and prices?

I mean what's the point of even posting something like this? To show that Flacco isn't very good right now? 

Well gee, I guess if I had been living in North Korea for the last two months, I might not have noticed that.

SMH.

[allblackraven]

1 minute ago, GhostofGrbac said:

Apparently reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Notice how I said right now?

I look forward to your snarky, know it all response. That seems to be your schtick on here. 

What does right now mean in the QB context? Swap them weekly based on their current stats? 

[GhostofGrbac]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

Why would I care which QB I want right now? Are they going to stop playing football anytime soon?

Did the NFL announce today that they are switching to a DFS format where we can just buy a new QB every week depending on matchups and prices?

I mean what's the point of even posting something like this? To show that Flacco isn't very good right now? 

Well gee, I guess if I had been living in North Korea for the last two months, I might not have noticed that.

SMH.

Why respond if you don't care? Because I pointed out that your boy Flacco is playing on the level of Case freaking Keenum?