kennethyamini1989

Is Harbaugh on the Hot Seat Yet

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58 minutes ago, FerrariFan87 said:

Harbaugh should definitely be on the hot seat... his coaching decisions the past few years have led directly to losses, including the last 2. That's just not acceptable... that being said, most NFL Head Coaches are at least on a "warm" seat because it's all about winning, and we haven't been recently. The Super Bowl definitely bought him a few years though.

We won 3 in a row. Tied for best start in franchise history.... all of 2 games ago.

 

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If we go like 5-11 this year, Harbaugh's seat will be warm in 2017. If he does poorly in 2017, there is a chance he's gone. But this is all hypothetical, and really just indicative of how safe his job is at the current moment. The only way he really ever gets on a hot seat is if he loses the locker-room, and there is absolutely no hint of that right now. 

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I'll go this far... theres only a handful of coaches whose job is safer.

Belichick. Kubiak. Carrol. Fisher just bc that guy never gets fired. Thats probably it.

As @Maryland said... if we go 5-11, 6-10 even 7-9, he's got to put it together next year or hes really on a hot seat. But right now? 3-2?? 1 game out of first? IN THE CONFERENCE!?!? 

Man, you guys are silly. The second we're not in first place - FIRE THE COACH, FIRE THE GM, REMOVE THE QB!!!! ahhhh we suck!

Problems gone. Time to roll.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Maryland said:

If we go like 5-11 this year, Harbaugh's seat will be warm in 2017. If he does poorly in 2017, there is a chance he's gone. But this is all hypothetical, and really just indicative of how safe his job is at the current moment. The only way he really ever gets on a hot seat is if he loses the locker-room, and there is absolutely no hint of that right now. 

There is a hint of that. In fact way more than a hint. When Flacco made his statement after the game on Sunday he was talking about the entire coaching staff. There is a huge divide in the locker room and it's just wasn't about Trestman.

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3 minutes ago, wizard1 said:

There is a hint of that. In fact way more than a hint. When Flacco made his statement after the game on Sunday he was talking about the entire coaching staff. There is a huge divide in the locker room and it's just wasn't about Trestman.

Pure speculation and entirely false. Lol your talkin like were 1-4 or somethin. If we go below .500 he will still get another year. After that if things don't turn around I think they will mutually part ways .but I wouldn't be too worried about that. I know you desperately want him out of here but I think you better get used to him stickin around for another 5 or 6 years.

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6 minutes ago, January J said:

Pure speculation and entirely false. Lol your talkin like were 1-4 or somethin. If we go below .500 he will still get another year. After that if things don't turn around I think they will mutually part ways .but I wouldn't be too worried about that. I know you desperately want him out of here but I think you better get used to him stickin around for another 5 or 6 years.

I'm not even slighty concerned. He will never last another 5 or 6 years. We are going to have another losing year this year. I am %100 sure of that. I just wish I could have the same degree of certainty that this is the last year of Har-Ball.

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I personally can't stand the man so maybe I'm not impartial, but I think he has to be on a warm seat at least. When coaching decisions have a direct effect on the outcome of the games, his employers will notice.

I just think it's time for a young innovative mind to take the reigns and update our style and standard of play.

I fell in love with the ravens on 2005 2006 with their attitude and defense.

The league has changed and that era is gone, but if I was 15 16 again, there's no way I'd fall in love with this ravens team.

They are neither an explosive offense which indy had with manning Harrison and Wayne when I first started watching, nor are they the ray Lewis led 2006 defense.

I think alot of that comes from our coach down, it's been so long it just has to be. Keep the games close, don't get beat for quick TDs, run the ball, control the clock, not take too many risks, play the percentages and win it with a field goal.

 

I don't think it's coincidence alot of our games go like that.

His style will normally get you enough wins to hit the playoffs, and you can see the reigns have been released when we do hit the playoffs. I just wish he'd allow it all year.

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1 hour ago, wizard1 said:

There is a hint of that. In fact way more than a hint. When Flacco made his statement after the game on Sunday he was talking about the entire coaching staff. There is a huge divide in the locker room and it's just wasn't about Trestman.

This reminds me of the old expression, "The bigger the lie, the more likely people are going to believe it."

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3 minutes ago, flynismo said:

This reminds me of the old expression, "The bigger the lie, the more likely people are going to believe it."

How about " even tho you refuse to look at the problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist" Ever heard of that?

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31 minutes ago, wizard1 said:

How about " even tho you refuse to look at the problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist" Ever heard of that?

In fact, I just found it in my book of expressions. It's right next to the old, famous saying, "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."

Given Harbaugh's 90 - 58 record, and a SB win, since taking over as HC, I think it is clear what his habit is.

Edited by flynismo
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We are 3-2 and are in the playoffs if the season ends right now. We could be better off right now but we could be a lot worse as well. Let's see how we do the rest of the way. If we implode and go 5-11 or 4-12 then I think talk of him being on the hot seat would be very justified. We could get on a roll though as well and we will all be laughing at this thread(besides a couple fans who don't know how to appreciate success in a league with this much parity). My guess is we get something in the middle. My guess before the season was 7-9 wins and I think that is still about where we are. We are better than last year obviously but we still have a little bit more to go to get back to being a legitimate contender. But I have been wrong before and these guys could make a playoff run if things fall a certain way. Or they may not. There are still 11 games to play. 

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5 hours ago, Maryland said:

If we go like 5-11 this year, Harbaugh's seat will be warm in 2017. If he does poorly in 2017, there is a chance he's gone. But this is all hypothetical, and really just indicative of how safe his job is at the current moment. The only way he really ever gets on a hot seat is if he loses the locker-room, and there is absolutely no hint of that right now. 

Of course he would be in the hot seat in that case. But goodness, 3-2 and you're talking about a coach on the hot seat??? LOL 

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11 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

We are 3-2 and are in the playoffs if the season ends right now. We could be better off right now but we could be a lot worse as well. Let's see how we do the rest of the way. If we implode and go 5-11 or 4-12 then I think talk of him being on the hot seat would be very justified. We could get on a roll though as well and we will all be laughing at this thread(besides a couple fans who don't know how to appreciate success in a league with this much parity). My guess is we get something in the middle. My guess before the season was 7-9 wins and I think that is still about where we are. We are better than last year obviously but we still have a little bit more to go to get back to being a legitimate contender. But I have been wrong before and these guys could make a playoff run if things fall a certain way. Or they may not. There are still 11 games to play. 

I don't know why everyone loses perspective so quickly after a loss. Bear in mind that everyone thought Rex should get fired immediately after their 0-2 start, but the next three weeks showed why it's good (for the Bills) that fans don't make the decisions.

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3 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

We are 3-2 and are in the playoffs if the season ends right now. We could be better off right now but we could be a lot worse as well. Let's see how we do the rest of the way. If we implode and go 5-11 or 4-12 then I think talk of him being on the hot seat would be very justified. We could get on a roll though as well and we will all be laughing at this thread(besides a couple fans who don't know how to appreciate success in a league with this much parity). My guess is we get something in the middle. My guess before the season was 7-9 wins and I think that is still about where we are. We are better than last year obviously but we still have a little bit more to go to get back to being a legitimate contender. But I have been wrong before and these guys could make a playoff run if things fall a certain way. Or they may not. There are still 11 games to play. 

Besides the Ravens playing extremely better primarily on offense and taking care of their own business...you know...like not losing at home against AFC and NFC opponents in back to back games and not looking like the bad news bears as they did in their last game....what do you feel are the "things that must fall a certain way?" :D

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2 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

Besides the Ravens playing extremely better primarily on offense and taking care of their own business...you know...like not losing at home against AFC and NFC opponents in back to back games and not looking like the bad news bears as they did in their last game....what do you feel are the "things that must fall a certain way?" :D

Playing like the team that started 3-0 maybe?  I'd think you would know better than to take stock in 2 games. We lost 3 in a row in 2012 and they were all uglier than this. 

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6 hours ago, wizard1 said:

There is a hint of that. In fact way more than a hint. When Flacco made his statement after the game on Sunday he was talking about the entire coaching staff. There is a huge divide in the locker room and it's just wasn't about Trestman.

Jerry Coleman was asked this question specifically (is Harbs losing the locker-room) and said any notion that that is the case is patently false. I'll take the opinion of someone who actually visits the team's locker-room after a game over some internet speculation ;) 

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On 10/10/2016 at 6:44 PM, GhostofGrbac said:

Because he spelled a name wrong?

Come on man it's not that big of a deal. He made a mistake and it was corrected. 

Yeah, I come to read about harbs being on the hot seat (which I don't think he should be)and he's mad about the spelling of his name? This board goes insane when we lose. 

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11 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I'll go this far... theres only a handful of coaches whose job is safer.

Belichick. Kubiak. Carrol. Fisher just bc that guy never gets fired. Thats probably it.

As @Maryland said... if we go 5-11, 6-10 even 7-9, he's got to put it together next year or hes really on a hot seat. But right now? 3-2?? 1 game out of first? IN THE CONFERENCE!?!? 

Man, you guys are silly. The second we're not in first place - FIRE THE COACH, FIRE THE GM, REMOVE THE QB!!!! ahhhh we suck!

Problems gone. Time to roll.

 

 

Ehhh, tomlin (I know I know), Doug Peterson, Zimmer, McCarthy. I agree that he's safe but there's more than a handful who are safer. 

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1 hour ago, mmcclend said:

Yeah, I come to read about harbs being on the hot seat (which I don't think he should be)and he's mad about the spelling of his name? This board goes insane when we lose. 

Is it insane?

Imagine reading The Sun, and seeing this headline:  "Joe Flacko Throws 9 TDs In Win Vs Giants"

It makes the author, editor and Sun look like morons. They don't say "whatevs yo, you know what I be sayin'"

Same principle here, and any other website. Nobody likes looking like a moron.

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2 hours ago, flynismo said:

Is it insane?

Imagine reading The Sun, and seeing this headline:  "Joe Flacko Throws 9 TDs In Win Vs Giants"

It makes the author, editor and Sun look like morons. They don't say "whatevs yo, you know what I be sayin'"

Same principle here, and any other website. Nobody likes looking like a moron.

Stop using logic 

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5 hours ago, mmcclend said:

Ehhh, tomlin (I know I know), Doug Peterson, Zimmer, McCarthy. I agree that he's safe but there's more than a handful who are safer. 

McCarthy is just Jeff Fisher with Aaron Rodgers

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6 hours ago, mmcclend said:

Ehhh, tomlin (I know I know), Doug Peterson, Zimmer, McCarthy. I agree that he's safe but there's more than a handful who are safer. 

Tomlin and Zimmer - ok.

I dont think McCarthy is safer. He's got the most talented QB of this generation, one of the most talented offenses in the league, and routinely has come up short since winning a SB. Like 5+ years of either meeting the bare minimum requirement or under-achieving (losing very winnable playoff games). So, basically what people are accusing Harbs of, just 3+ more years of doing so.

And, I purposely didnt throw any first year coaches in. Of course, unless they're the coach of the Browns, most are safe through '17. The Eagles started 3-0 just like us, and then just lost a game they shouldve won to an inferior team. If they lose to the Redskins then he's done exactly the same job as Harbs has, but without the 8+ year track record of success and the SB win.

So, no, I wouldnt say he's safer... at least he shouldnt be. Their results this year are nearly the same so far - and other than the fact that Pederson's in his first year and Harbs is in his, what 9th?? Harbs should have more confidence in literally every other measure.

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I'll say this again... those who want Harbs out use the time since winning the SB as their reasoning. "he's got a losing record since '12!" "We've had 2 under-achieving seasons out of 3 (so far)!"

But, '13 was a pretty darn good coaching job IMO just to get that team to 8-8 and have a realistic shot at the playoffs going into the last regular season game. A team that lost or let go of franchise identity players all over the place (Ray, Ed, Birk, Boldin) along with some over-achieving impact players (Art Jones, Ellerbe, etc..), had 0 offensive weapons (when Torrey's your #1, and Marlon Brown is your #2????) and was clearly lacking talent all over the place still nearly made the playoffs in THE BEST division in football. We're not talking about an 8-8 NFC East or South division winner who got in bc of 6 cake walk divisional games... a team that had a shot at a 9-7 WC spot in a division that sent 2 other teams to the playoffs.

So using '13 as a knock on Harbaugh is a joke to me.

Which was clearly demonstrated by the fact that a year later, a year removed from a foundation rebuilding season in which most teams crumble to obscurity and take 5 years to rebuild that Harbs still guided to near playoff success, we were one of the hottest teams heading into the post season and were a legitimate SB contender.... supported by the fact that we had the actual SB champs on the ropes and outplayed for 90% of that game with Dumbarton Middle Schools secondary playing for us due to injuries. WE'RE JUST OVER A YEAR REMOVED FROM UNQUESTIONABLE SB CONTENTION! SB contention where credit HAS to be given to the coaching staff bc it was a clearly undermanned squad, especially on defense.

And last year, which "he has a losing record since winning the SB" means, we had a losing record last year... bc we were .500 and a winning team the two other seasons..... but anyways... we were the most injured team in the league by a long shot especially when measured by actual expected contributions of those injured players. Starters. Pro Bowlers. Captains. Playmakers.... not ST guys, and depth. 60% or more of the starting lineups.

And even with all that, we still set a record for most games decided by one score. Which means The Replacements who individually werent good enough for most NFL practice squads... when coached by Harbaugh were good enough to take nearly every NFL team to the death.

 

LET ME REPEAT. A collection of cast offs, guys most teams overlooked or didnt want... Harbaugh and his staff were able to coach up and get them to compete within 1 score with almost every team they faced.

I dont know what better testament to a coach there is than to say that he can take a group of guys, who by the sum of their individual parts are far below the opponent, and he can put them in a position to where if they could make a play at the end of the game, they could've won nearly every game they played.

 

And now, with another totally revamped roster most of which are playing together for the first time or first time in a long time, get off to the best start in franchise history... and after losing 2 winnable games where the offense literally resembled a Pop Warner group, he should be on the Hot Seat? Did you think he deserved an extension after the first 3?

You must have. And thats how stupid this is. If you're ready to extend a guy bc of 3 games, and fire him 2 later.... well you just dont know how to manage success. Harbs couldve accepted the status quo, which as was, we wouldve competed in pretty much every game, and had a chance to win every week by making a play either on offense or defense. And bc we're talented we probably wouldve won more than lost. Reasonably looking at an 8-8, 9-7 type team based on the way they were playing.

But, that's not what this guy accepts. It's not what he expects. So, he made the change - which quite frankly, you can say it makes Trestman the scapegoat.... but if you really think Harbs is on a Hot Seat, than the real scape goat move wouldve been TO KEEP TRESTMAN, bc that could buy him more time. If the season isnt a success he could say at the end it's bc of trestman's offense we didnt do better.

Harbs just tossed out the excuses. If it doesnt get fixed now?? Then what? He put the target on himself. And thats bc hes a confident man. A man who knows how to lead. A man who demands excellence, and will make sure the least common denominator is clear if excellence isnt achieved.

 

 

We have, I think, 1 of the 3-4 most successful coaches of all time to this point in his career - even with the 2016 season failure which has as much to do with coaching as I have to do with the 2012 SB (i wore my lucky shorts every game.... so maybe im selling myself short??). 

Even if you dislike the guy - i just cant fathom what you want. There's maybe 2-3 coaches in history who've been consistently better. You're not gonna steal Belichick away from the Pats. You want Josh McDaniel??? Seriously?

Denver became instant contenders THE SECOND he left. Do you really think he's got anything to do with the Pats success??? Then why has literally EVERY pats OC been successful in NE and then sucked outside. NE could have Cam Cameron as their OC and be a top offense. BB puts the game plan together. I would all but guarantee Brady doesnt listen to McDaniel. McDaniel may suggest some plays here and there. He may send out a personnel grouping or package. But Brady's doing the work. BB puts together the successful philosophy.

 

I don't know why I'm wasting my time. I am literally to the point where i almost want the team to do what the group of yahoos here want, so we can have a decade of the Browns and you can reap the rewards of what youve sown. 

Luckily, for most of us, Bisciotti is a successful man and knows how to run an organization. Luckily, Ozzie knows how to manage the big picture. Thank goodness, Harbs knows how to run the day-to-day, week-to-week and make sure that by playoff time we're where we want to be.

It wont always be perfect, but i know these guys will make sure that more often than not, when what really matters to me as a fan (the playoffs) come around we'll be in the picture... while the organizations run the way some of you suggest - are home watching and wishing they had Harbaugh, Ozzie and Bisciotti.

 

PS - there is a group here, that I've literally never seen post 1 single positive thought. Not one. Seriously, why are you a fan of the Ravens. Fan implies you like the team. 

Think about it in terms of marriage. bc your fandom is pretty similar.

Would you really marry the girl that youre like "I love the idea of her, i mean she's really pretty... and if she just - cut her hair, got breast implants, was funnier, more intelligent, wasn't so mean, wore more make up, learned how to cook, didnt smell bad, got a new wardrobe, learns to love everything I love, and could just cut off all her friends and family -- man I'd love her so much! Yea, I think I'll marry her bc there's a possibility all of that could happen.... even though it'd be totally unhealthy relationship and would probably destroy her forever"

This is some of you. Well - I hate everything about the team. Hate their identity, hate every decision, the players suck, coaches suck, management sucks, EVERYTHING needs to change, we philosophically disagree on how to achieve success.... BUT i do like Purple and Black! Yea... its settled. Im a Ravens Fan BABY!!!

It's ok. Just go like the Patriots or something. We'll be ok here. Well, go be a Pats fan until Brady retires or BB leaves... bc when that happens then your expectations of how NFL teams actually work (when there isnt a combo of greatest coach and QB ever, together) will be destroyed there too (just like those of you who are having a hard time coping now that youre having to realize not every team has Ray Lewis and Ed Reed forever).

 

<end novel>

Edited by BOLDnPurPnBlacK
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Harbs isn't on the hot seat but his seat is warm. Simply because the Ravens don't handle losing well. Once you start firing coaches mid season that puts everyone on alert. The offense must improve as well as the ST unit. If the offense doesn't improve under Marty i don't think Harbs will be fired because it's kind of a unique situation, but I do think he'll go into next season with as much pressure to win as he's ever had as the Ravens HC. 

I think when you start firing guys, something is wrong and if it doesn't improve more guys will just be fired. Well it's only so many guys you can fire before you are viewed as the problem. I love Harbs as a HC and Flacco as the QB of this team. But if things don't improve I don't think Mr. B can just sit back and wait. I think he'll hold one of those guys accountable and he's highly invested into Flacco so Harbs would probably be the sacrifice. But I don't think we're close to that at all, but if this team continues to loss close games like they did last year and the 2 losses this year, we get close. 

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19 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Harbs isn't on the hot seat but his seat is warm. Simply because the Ravens don't handle losing well. Once you start firing coaches mid season that puts everyone on alert. The offense must improve as well as the ST unit. If the offense doesn't improve under Marty i don't think Harbs will be fired because it's kind of a unique situation, but I do think he'll go into next season with as much pressure to win as he's ever had as the Ravens HC. 

I think when you start firing guys, something is wrong and if it doesn't improve more guys will just be fired. Well it's only so many guys you can fire before you are viewed as the problem. I love Harbs as a HC and Flacco as the QB of this team. But if things don't improve I don't think Mr. B can just sit back and wait. I think he'll hold one of those guys accountable and he's highly invested into Flacco so Harbs would probably be the sacrifice. But I don't think we're close to that at all, but if this team continues to loss close games like they did last year and the 2 losses this year, we get close. 

I agree with this.  I think if the losing continues this year, you see Marty (probably after the season) and Rosburg (maybe during and maybe after season) be fired.  Then, Harbaugh would be on the hot seat next year if he doesn't turn it around then.  Hopefully, this becomes a non-issue because Harbaugh, Rosburg, and Marty turn this thing around and get us into the playoffs!

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22 minutes ago, VermontRaven said:

I agree with this.  I think if the losing continues this year, you see Marty (probably after the season) and Rosburg (maybe during and maybe after season) be fired.  Then, Harbaugh would be on the hot seat next year if he doesn't turn it around then.  Hopefully, this becomes a non-issue because Harbaugh, Rosburg, and Marty turn this thing around and get us into the playoffs!

Yeah I definitely think the Ravens have playoff potential and should be one of the better teams in the AFC. However we just haven't seen it on the offense and recently on the ST unit. I think should have dominated both the Raiders and Redskins but the offense did next to nothing until too late and the ST gave up huge returns. 

I think if Harbs clears up the ST unit and the oline can get on track this team will be dominant. I expect Marty to unleash the 3 headed monster rushing attack and that will lead to huge space in the defense for the speed of Wallace/Perriman to make big plays and the intermediate areas for Pitta/SSS to make plays. The defense has started fast and if the offense can start fast as well it'll put the Ravens great position to beat anyone. 

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