Is Harbaugh on the Hot Seat Yet

[GrimCoconut]

1 hour ago, RaineV1 said:

Well, the Chargers were pretty good at running the ball and having a more balanced offense despite having a not so great o-line. I can't say for 100% they were better, but I think there's a pretty good chance they would be a good upgrade.

Just an FYI but Whisenhunt apparently is expected to be retained by the Chargers so getting him would be a challenge. We're really only talking McCoy. 

1 hour ago, AsianRice said:

clearly and 100% upgrade would be Kubiak...

 

McCoy or Wishenhunt is about 70% better than Marty....

 

What we have seen from Marty is just a sample and not really 100% from his own playbook yet; however, his playcallings were mind-bogging; even if he brings in his own playbook, would he call anything differently? I doubt it..

 

He has the same system like Kubiak does, but that doesn't mean he would utilize better.  

 

I do agree that John rolls with something he knows......he knows Marty better personally than other available coordinators....He took a gamble with it and we fans will suffer the consequences...

It's hard to say those guys are 70% better. I see your point but I can't say they're clearly that much better. Whisenhunt isn't even an option as explained above. Kubiak isn't coming back. 

[frozen joe flacco fan]

If U don't get it, U don't get it. Harbaugh should be looking for another job as a Special Teams Coach. What is his regular season record since we won the Super Bowl? Its mediocre. If we could not even beat a Cincinnati team without its primary playmakers, Green, Bernard, Hill and Burffict, that's pathetic game-planning and game-coaching. It was evident Cincy laid down against the Steelers in the 2nd half of their game against the Steelers but then took their wrath out on us. Harbaugh should go. It was obvious Cincy wanted the game more than we did. Our team did not play for Harbaugh in a game which decided whether or not we would have a winning season. AND, what about the great playcall again toward the end of the half with us trailing at the time 17-3? We call a pass on 1st and goal with 2:28 to play. It was like deja vu from the Eagles game. It was Einstein who said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results." Well, Harbaugh is obviously not Einstein, is he? That was Forrest Gump football at its finest, i.e., stupid is as stupid does. That was a flat out embarrassing display of coaching ineptitude. Its time to go, John! Your message has gotten stale and its time for a change. The organization needs a new culture and a new philosophy. Its time to bring in someone with a good grasp of the game instead of someone who it takes three years to find an adequate punt returner.     

[Moderator 3]

Found it a little surpising that nationally we're more highly regarded than among our own fans.  

 

NFL rebuild rankings: Which teams are in best shape for 2017?

http://usat.ly/2hT3S65

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

If U don't get it, U don't get it. Harbaugh should be looking for another job as a Special Teams Coach. What is his regular season record since we won the Super Bowl? Its mediocre. If we could not even beat a Cincinnati team without its primary playmakers, Green, Bernard, Hill and Burffict, that's pathetic game-planning and game-coaching. It was evident Cincy laid down against the Steelers in the 2nd half of their game against the Steelers but then took their wrath out on us. Harbaugh should go. It was obvious Cincy wanted the game more than we did. Our team did not play for Harbaugh in a game which decided whether or not we would have a winning season. AND, what about the great playcall again toward the end of the half with us trailing at the time 17-3? We call a pass on 1st and goal with 2:28 to play. It was like deja vu from the Eagles game. It was Einstein who said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results." Well, Harbaugh is obviously not Einstein, is he? That was Forrest Gump football at its finest, i.e., stupid is as stupid does. That was a flat out embarrassing display of coaching ineptitude. Its time to go, John! Your message has gotten stale and its time for a change. The organization needs a new culture and a new philosophy. Its time to bring in someone with a good grasp of the game instead of someone who it takes three years to find an adequate punt returner.     

I never understand when people try to make points like this, it normally goes to fit one persons narrative.  He hasnt been a coach since after the superbowl, hes been a coach since 08.  Its like saying: yea he carried the ball for 104 yards on 11 carries but one carry went for 85, so he actually had a bad day because he rushed for 19 yards on 10 carries. 

[K-Dog]

1 hour ago, Moderator 3 said:

Found it a little surpising that nationally we're more highly regarded than among our own fans.  

 

 

That is not difficult to do.

[allblackraven]

1 hour ago, Moderator 3 said:

Found it a little surpising that nationally we're more highly regarded than among our own fans.  

 

NFL rebuild rankings: Which teams are in best shape for 2017?

http://usat.ly/2hT3S65

That's because they don't watch us often and in depth.

[RayRayRaven]

we are gonna be right back here next year at this time.

keep thinking back to the 2008-2012 era when we had great players on our team, even then harball underachieved. we should have won more. now we have some decent players but only one star and that's our kicker. the bad coachin and decisions remain with us but we don't have the veteran superstar talent to offset the coachin and decision makin.  its very sad and makes you feel that 2013-2016 were years where nothing happened and that 2017 will be another wasted year with harball in its current form.  the time is now and nothing is happenin

[usmccharles]

15 minutes ago, RayRayRaven said:

we are gonna be right back here next year at this time.

keep thinking back to the 2008-2012 era when we had great players on our team, even then harball underachieved. we should have won more. now we have some decent players but only one star and that's our kicker. the bad coachin and decisions remain with us but we don't have the veteran superstar talent to offset the coachin and decision makin.  its very sad and makes you feel that 2013-2016 were years where nothing happened and that 2017 will be another wasted year with harball in its current form.  the time is now and nothing is happenin

Right.....playoffs every year.  One win in the playoffs each year, a superbowl.  Pretty pathetic

[R@venFan808]

27 minutes ago, RayRayRaven said:

we are gonna be right back here next year at this time.

keep thinking back to the 2008-2012 era when we had great players on our team, even then harball underachieved. we should have won more. now we have some decent players but only one star and that's our kicker. the bad coachin and decisions remain with us but we don't have the veteran superstar talent to offset the coachin and decision makin.  its very sad and makes you feel that 2013-2016 were years where nothing happened and that 2017 will be another wasted year with harball in its current form.  the time is now and nothing is happenin

 

Cj mosely not a star? brandon williams not a star ? Eric weddle he a nobody too? Marshall yanda? juice? Jimmy smith? we got stars all over the place they just are not on your Facebook feed which is where you probably get your football info since you think tucker is the only star ?

2013-14 we loss huge pieces , torrey smith , anquan boldin , ed reed, ray lewis paul kruger , etc etc yup that's HC fault....

2014-15 we take huge injury losses in terrell suggs, joe flacco, , steve smith sr. , first round pick out as well.   We will put that on HC too 

2015 -16   Team starts to show signs of life, No major injuries this year, Defense goes from worst to first, Granted the offense sputtered and timing looked   god awful which is about right when none have played together under the same OC or time to get timing in years. But yeah let's fire the HC while 6 other teams are looking for a HC.  

 

Now if we were in the bengals situation and we a team that stacked and still missed the play offs with out injuries, id be calling for his head. I don't see where changing HC will stop injuries, free agency and father time. Sure he had a few bad calls, Every coach has and will do that. He's had a lot more good calls then bad.

 

 

[usmccharles]

34 minutes ago, R@venFan808 said:

 

2015 -16   Team starts to show signs of life, No major injuries this year, Defense goes from worst to first, Granted the offense sputtered and timing looked   god awful which is about right when none have played together under the same OC or time to get timing in years. But yeah let's fire the HC while 6 other teams are looking for a HC. 

Not having Doom, Jimmy, SSr, Stanley, Yanda for the couple games they missed definitely didnt help.  Not saying thats the reason of us missing the playoffs, but im willing to bet Stanley plays in the Oakland game, we pull that one out, Joe was getting murdered.  Jimmy going down against NY and OBJ going off in the second half and not having him in the Dallas game, and not to mention Suggs wasnt near 100% and was still productive.  So that being said, im sure things would of went a lot different even if just Stanley doesnt go down.  I know injuries are part of the game...but saying no major injuries, i guess compared to last year...

[Glen1024]

3 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

Found it a little surpising that nationally we're more highly regarded than among our own fans.  

 

NFL rebuild rankings: Which teams are in best shape for 2017?

http://usat.ly/2hT3S65

Fans see and watch the team up close the national media just goes on reputation 

[usmccharles]

7 minutes ago, Glen1024 said:

Fans see and watch the team up close the national media just goes on reputation 

Or maybe the national media isnt biased to fit a certain narrative. 

[Greatness]

That's where that Love/Hate Relationship with Harbaugh comes and goes. But I hope it pays off for everyone, I just don't got it happening.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

1 hour ago, usmccharles said:

Right.....playoffs every year.  One win in the playoffs each year, a superbowl.  Pretty pathetic

I believe he's talking about our mediocre record since we won the Super Bowl. If you like mediocrity, then you should be very happy 'cause that's where we are. Its hard to say whether the team got better or not, given the injuries we had last year. You ought to know that there's no such thing as the status quo. You're either getting better or getting worse. Again, its kinda hard to say at this point whether we're getting better or worse. Our team has numerous holes to fill at various positions and the coaching seems to have declined IMO.

[usmccharles]

2 hours ago, RayRayRaven said:

we are gonna be right back here next year at this time.

keep thinking back to the 2008-2012 era when we had great players on our team, even then harball underachieved. we should have won more. now we have some decent players but only one star and that's our kicker. the bad coachin and decisions remain with us but we don't have the veteran superstar talent to offset the coachin and decision makin.  its very sad and makes you feel that 2013-2016 were years where nothing happened and that 2017 will be another wasted year with harball in its current form.  the time is now and nothing is happenin

 

2 minutes ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

I believe he's talking about our mediocre record since we won the Super Bowl. If you like mediocrity, then you should be very happy 'cause that's where we are. Its hard to say whether the team got better or not, given the injuries we had last year. You ought to know that there's no such thing as the status quo. You're either getting better or getting worse. Again, its kinda hard to say at this point whether we're getting better or worse. Our team has numerous holes to fill at various positions and the coaching seems to have declined IMO.

And.....you were saying

[kjbmore]

I feel personally 2017 will just be a repeat of this year - any players we bring in we'll be asking a lot of them.

Will we be throwing rookies straight in the fire - we could be looking at trying to start rookies at CB, C, OLB, WR and expecting them to hold up and help this team make the playoffs

I think our poor drafting will finally catch up to us, who do we have in the wings that can step in and help at positions of need - can guys like Correa, Davis, Henry, Canady come in and help

what are we looking for from guys like Buck Allen, Taliferro, Urban, Gilmore, Elam

we found 6 starters this year, prob looking at needing a similar number this year

bit worried this year could really set us back and we reach to fill needs in the draft and then throw guys straight in the fire and it's just a repeat of guys flaming out like Elam or getting injured because we're asking too much of them - Maxx, Gilmore, Kaufasi, Urban, Perriman- God knows Harbs will be pushing in camp

as much flack as oz has been copping lately - I think he's the saving grace here, wouldn't surprise me if he's stepped back from the top tier of the draft - where harbaugh has been getting his guys rounds 1-3 but in conjunction with the scouts Oz has more say or Harbs puts less time into the latter rounds, we still seem to be finding good talent in the latter rounds - Young, Lewis, Judon, Dixon

hes also been able to bring in help relatively cheaply when required, SSR, Wallace, Zuttah hasn't / doesn't blow the bank on anybody - hopefully Oz stands firm - we let Harbs pick his guys, coach his guys, with his coaches this season and when it's a repeat of the same we get somebody in here who isn't afraid of a bit of swag and nastiness and we get back to being a hard hitting, nasty team

 

 

[usmccharles]

6 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

 

Will we be throwing rookies straight in the fire - we could be looking at trying to start rookies at CB, C, OLB, WR and expecting them to hold up and help this team make the playoffs

 

Maybe i missed something, but you know who we are already drafting? because we dont have any rookies on our team anymore.   

But lets say we draft a WR, you think one is going to beat out BP, Wallace, Moore?  I guess if we draft one in the first, Williams from Clemson is a beast

If we draft an OLB, who are they going to start over right now?  Are they starting over Suggs, Judon, Doom (if he is here)?

CB? you get my point

Maybe a rookie could start at center but we wont be using our first round on one, and maybe we get one in FA.  So unless you think we are cutting basically everyone in starting positions you listed, i have no clue how you came to those conclusions, but im all ears, maybe im not thinking outside the box

[Adreme]

8 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Maybe i missed something, but you know who we are already drafting? because we dont have any rookies on our team anymore.   

But lets say we draft a WR, you think one is going to beat out BP, Wallace, Moore?  I guess if we draft one in the first, Williams from Clemson is a beast

If we draft an OLB, who are they going to start over right now?  Are they starting over Suggs, Judon, Doom (if he is here)?

CB? you get my point

Maybe a rookie could start at center but we wont be using our first round on one, and maybe we get one in FA.  So unless you think we are cutting basically everyone in starting positions you listed, i have no clue how you came to those conclusions, but im all ears, maybe im not thinking outside the box

If Ravens used there 1st round pick on a center I would be completely okay with it.  I would prefer they obviously trade down first but at this point its such a pressing need that if there is a great center in the draft you find him and take him.

[rossihunter2]

2 hours ago, allblackraven said:

That's because they don't watch us often and in depth.

 

44 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Or maybe the national media isnt biased to fit a certain narrative. 

No it's because, unlike most of this fan board they also watch other teams in depth and realise that outside of maybe 2 teams, the standard in the NFL this year is really mediocre and an 8-8 team is not that far off the playoffs - we see all of our problems up close by we also don't see every other team's problems as close or they feel less catastrophic because we aren't emotionally attached

[rossihunter2]

3 minutes ago, Adreme said:

If Ravens used there 1st round pick on a center I would be completely okay with it.  I would prefer they obviously trade down first but at this point its such a pressing need that if there is a great center in the draft you find him and take him.

I'd prefer one of the good looking pass rushers - I don't think this year's offensive line class is particularly good - not sure if there even is a high rated centre (haven't looked yet)

[frozen joe flacco fan]

3 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I never understand when people try to make points like this, it normally goes to fit one persons narrative.  He hasnt been a coach since after the superbowl, hes been a coach since 08.  Its like saying: yea he carried the ball for 104 yards on 11 carries but one carry went for 85, so he actually had a bad day because he rushed for 19 yards on 10 carries. 

Thank you for making my point better than I could have said it! You're exactly right. Without realizing it, you hit the nail on the head --- John hasn't been a coach since after the Super Bowl; he's been a spectator. Quite frankly, he must have found it hard to be a spectator at the game in Cincy from the sidelines 'cause his team jest went thru the motions and tried not to get hurt. It was a classic example of folding it up and mailing it in. His team didn't play for him. Some of us have said repeatedly and predicted this right after the Super Bowl and Ray's retirement. Coach Harbaugh would have to coach for the first time since he was appointed by Mr. Bisciotti. That game was a total embarrassment to all the organization has stood for since its inception. Any head coach worth his or her salt could not have been happy with the effort not to mention the result.

Before the season started, I predicted this team would most likely go 9-7. So, they failed to meet my expectations. After watching every game, I must conclude that I sold them short. They should have wound up with a much better record than 8-8. If you're satisfied with mediocrity, then be happy 'cause mediocrity is what we have. A mediocre employee is one who does everything he or she is told to do and nothing more. An outstanding employee is one who goes the extra mile and then keeps on going. I have to question the amount of preparation that went into the Cincy game based on the result. Was the Cincy team that led Pittsburgh at halftime and laid down in the 2nd half the same team we played against or did we just not show up to play? 

[rossihunter2]

3 minutes ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

You're exactly right. Without realizing it, you hit the nail on the head --- John hasn't been a coach since after the Super Bowl; he's been a spectator

I'm sorry but that's just childish - you've taken his point completely out of context

[JO_75]

I've cooled a bit on Harbs being on the hot seat, and while I think sticking with the current coordinators is basically his last chance to get us back to the playoffs in 2017. I know it's a "What have you done lately" league, but Harbaugh still only has 1 losing season since he took over the team. The injury filled 2015 season is the worst we have been under him and we were still the most competitive 5-11 team in the history of the NFL. We were in the division race until the very end of the season and the luck with injuries played a part in that(if only Jimmy didn't get hurt).

2008- 11-5(Took us to the AFC Title Game as a Rookie Head Coach with a Rookie QB)

2009- 9-7

2010- 12-4

2011- 12-4(Lee Evans catch away from facing the Giants)

2012- 10-6(Super Bowl Champions)

2013- 8-8 (Missed playoffs by 1 game)

2014- 10-6(Returned to the playoffs, almost beat Patriots in NE once again, on door step of facing Indy in AFC Title Game)

2015- 5-11(Injury filled season killed the team but still so damn competitive)

2016- 8-8(Held the Division lead until Brown reached at the goal line and took it from underneath us)

I can see us getting back to the playoffs next year, he ends up with a 2-3 year extension and he remains here until 2019/2020. Only way I see him being fired at this point next year is if we miss the playoffs again.

[kjbmore]

42 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Maybe i missed something, but you know who we are already drafting? because we dont have any rookies on our team anymore.   

But lets say we draft a WR, you think one is going to beat out BP, Wallace, Moore?  I guess if we draft one in the first, Williams from Clemson is a beast

If we draft an OLB, who are they going to start over right now?  Are they starting over Suggs, Judon, Doom (if he is here)?

CB? you get my point

Maybe a rookie could start at center but we wont be using our first round on one, and maybe we get one in FA.  So unless you think we are cutting basically everyone in starting positions you listed, i have no clue how you came to those conclusions, but im all ears, maybe im not thinking outside the box

so there's a million things that can happen between now n the next season but my hypothetical is wrong and yours is right good one wally,

 Is it possible we look to start a rookie corner, rookie centre, add a rookie and expect them to contribute significantly to our group of OLBs, who knows what receivers we have next year - Wallace, Aiken could b gone, Smith is gone, talk of a possession receiver - could we draft one and expect them to contribute

we started a rookie LT, rookie LG, looked for big things from essentially a rookie WR, were clamouring for the return of our rookie RB, were dependent on our rookie CB by mid year, had a rookie returning kicks by year end and hoped a rookie would be able to help our pass rush - did I miss anybody?? Pretty sure you missed something

 

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

Thank you for making my point better than I could have said it! You're exactly right. Without realizing it, you hit the nail on the head --- John hasn't been a coach since after the Super Bowl; he's been a spectator. Quite frankly, he must have found it hard to be a spectator at the game in Cincy from the sidelines 'cause his team jest went thru the motions and tried not to get hurt. It was a classic example of folding it up and mailing it in. His team didn't play for him. Some of us have said repeatedly and predicted this right after the Super Bowl and Ray's retirement. Coach Harbaugh would have to coach for the first time since he was appointed by Mr. Bisciotti. That game was a total embarrassment to all the organization has stood for since its inception. Any head coach worth his or her salt could not have been happy with the effort not to mention the result.

Before the season started, I predicted this team would most likely go 9-7. So, they failed to meet my expectations. After watching every game, I must conclude that I sold them short. They should have wound up with a much better record than 8-8. If you're satisfied with mediocrity, then be happy 'cause mediocrity is what we have. A mediocre employee is one who does everything he or she is told to do and nothing more. An outstanding employee is one who goes the extra mile and then keeps on going. I have to question the amount of preparation that went into the Cincy game based on the result. Was the Cincy team that led Pittsburgh at halftime and laid down in the 2nd half the same team we played against or did we just not show up to play? 

I cant even respond to something that completely ignores the basis of my entire response because you cant form any type of educated opinion on what i typed,  So my response to that is 2+2= fish. 

59 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

I'm sorry but that's just childish - you've taken his point completely out of context

Glad someone can comprehend....

39 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Ur not alias for that mcjacket dh are u - Mccharles / mcjacket hmmm

Yet, you dont even bother to try to answer what was a legit question.  You said we will be throwing rookies into the fire in multiple positions which yet we havent even drafted a single rookie, we have no rookies, excuse me for asking for clarification to a point that you obviously cant even make.  And sidenote, i didnt use a number system, alas im not MC....or am i? 

11 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

so there's a million things that can happen between now n the next season but my hypothetical is wrong and yours is right good one wally,

 Is it possible we look to start a rookie corner, rookie centre, add a rookie and expect them to contribute significantly to our group of OLBs, who knows what receivers we have next year - Wallace, Aiken could b gone, Smith is gone, talk of a possession receiver - could we draft one and expect them to contribute

we started a rookie LT, rookie LG, looked for big things from essentially a rookie WR, were clamouring for the return of our rookie RB, were dependent on our rookie CB by mid year, had a rookie returning kicks by year end and hoped a rookie would be able to help our pass rush - did I miss anybody?? Pretty sure you missed something

The difference between my hypothetical and yours is that in my world, we have no rookies, in your world we are throwing rookies into a starting role.  Im no brain scientist (anyone gets the reference ill be shocked) but as of right now, what i said is fact and what you said holds no grounds other than 'its possible'.  So is us signing Favre, or getting RG3 as a PR., I missed nothing other than someone reaching for something to complain about without facts.  Might as well complain about Tuckers missed PATs next year too because what you proposed hasnt happened....etc etc....

Edited January 5 by usmccharles

[Sherly_Tebow]

I feel like I've always been an optimist, but I like Harbaugh. Personally, I feel that a lot of people on here overreact a little, some a lot. This year didn't end the way we hoped, and the only people to blame are ourselves. There are a lot of positives to take out of this season, and there are a lot of negatives too. Next season, the Ravens will be fighting it out the last few weeks, trying to make the playoffs, which is my expectation. As long as the Ravens finish at 9-7 or better, I honestly don't see Harbaugh getting fired. Playoffs or bust may be a little but of an exaggeration in my opinion, but who knows. As long as I see the Ravens fighting, competing, and believing in each other, then I'm satisfied. The Ravens are a mentally strong team thanks to Harbaugh. Whatever happens, happens. We will see tough wins and losses. We will see aggressive calls, smart calls, risky calls, bad calls, etc. That's football. This is a team sport. Now there's a lot for this team to do before I call them playoff ready, but I believe that they will make the best roster they can, and go into next season ready to win. There's a lot I could go into detail about, but this is an overview. Call me crazy or agree, but that's how I feel.

[kjbmore]

4 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

The difference between my hypothetical and yours is that in my world, we have no rookies, in your world we are throwing rookies into a starting role.  Im no brain scientist (anyone gets the reference ill be shocked) but as of right now, what i said is fact and what you said holds no grounds other than 'its possible'.  So is us signing Favre, or getting RG3 as a PR., I missed nothing other than someone reaching for something to complain about without facts.  Might as well complain about Tuckers misses PATs next year two because what you proposed hasnt happened....etc etc....

you're clearly no scientist or surgeon of any kind, just mouthing off making stupid comments, no way we need rookies or expect much from them (sounding a lot like mcjack too i must say - he was jabbering about no way we can find 2 or 3 starters in one offseason after we just added 6 or 7 in the season just gone)  

i just listed rookies or as good as, who were either asked to start - Stanley, Lewis 4th round pick, share a starting load - dixon, perriman or ended up taking on significant roles young, judon, moore  (of the 6 rookies listed - all except Stanley and Perriman are 4th round picks) all of whom had rookie moments

So given the holes on our team, the age of some key players and injury history others, i think, hypothetically - now look up and read all the rookies that just played a role on our team in 2016 - theres a good chance we will be asking rookies to come in and help straight away or at some stage through out the season and youre reply is saying some stupid rubbish about we might sign favre and rg3 - you're grasping at straws

one of these hypotheticals has some credence, youre just talking rubbish

[Glen1024]

7 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Or maybe the national media isnt biased to fit a certain narrative. 

Are we in new York ,Boston, or Chicago....then no they are not paying attention to the team or else media would've been calling harbaugh out....imagine how some of the coaching decisions this year would've been received and covered in new york, Chicago....no they are not paying attention

[Glen1024]

Tom Coughlin 2 time superbowl winning coach would still be coaching leave it to some.....but you see NY media are not homers and will call guys out....finally remove Coughlin now the giants are back in the playoffs...the message some times just gets stale the ravens are not the only team this has happened too. And yes when your coach is in press conferences every week asking for more runs talking about being balanced and the OC ignores this week after week yet retains his job...means your message is not getting across....if fans are getting tired of the coach speak imagine the players who hear it everyday.

[rossihunter2]

6 hours ago, kjbmore said:

so there's a million things that can happen between now n the next season but my hypothetical is wrong and yours is right good one wally,

 Is it possible we look to start a rookie corner, rookie centre, add a rookie and expect them to contribute significantly to our group of OLBs, who knows what receivers we have next year - Wallace, Aiken could b gone, Smith is gone, talk of a possession receiver - could we draft one and expect them to contribute

we started a rookie LT, rookie LG, looked for big things from essentially a rookie WR, were clamouring for the return of our rookie RB, were dependent on our rookie CB by mid year, had a rookie returning kicks by year end and hoped a rookie would be able to help our pass rush - did I miss anybody?? Pretty sure you missed something

 

my problem with your argument is this: we have no idea who the rookies we are bringing in are gonna be especially as ozzie doesnt draft for need - we might not bring in another rookie wr or a rookie centre etc. because that might not be where bpa falls

you always want contributions from your rookies of course but to assume a random rookie will start is nonsense - what position on this team is fully reliant on a rookie coming in and starting before they are ready - yes we'd like them to win jobs and improve the team but which position actually needs gap plugging by rookies just for the sake of their existence