Is Harbaugh on the Hot Seat Yet

[kjbmore]

Bill o'briens name getting tossed about as on the hot seat if Texans struggle

Given what he's done with Texans, with poo qbs, time spent at NE 

definitely feasible here

 

[The Raven]

7 hours ago, Steve0x said:

Thats why im suggesting Ray Lewis becomes the defensive cord. Players will listen to him. Remember when ex steeler Mean Joe Greene retired? He became Steelers  defensive cord and their winning tradition kept going. So why not Ray Lewis comes back and make the Ravens defense return its form. 

False. He went back as a DL coach six years after he retired as a player. Two of the four years he was there as a coach, they had losing seasons. Their best season with Greene as DL coach was 1989 when they finished 2nd in the division at 9-7, won a wildcard spot, and lost in the divisional round.

[ellicottraven]

Folks there are 2 things I'm absolutely certain of. Both Harbaugh and Flacco will be a big part of the 2017 Ravens. However, I'm sure either one or both coordinators will be replaced If Harbaugh relents and is not ferociously loyal to dud coordinators. If that loyalty comes into play,  I'm absolutely certain of only one thing. Flacco will be a big part of 2017.

[codizzle]

4 hours ago, allblackraven said:

I'd rather make changes now and save us all couple more years frustration with same all - same all. If I have to be frustrated, let's do it due to completely different reasons, whatever they may be.

I think the frustration lies elsewhere than harbaugh. 

Im more frustrated in misses in  high draft picks that have been pretty much complete misses. 

Elam,upshaw,pierce,Gilmore (becoming one but too early to tell yet), brooks, Arthur brown, maxx Williams, Carl Davis 

All drafted  in rounds 1-3 from 2012-2015 and have given little to no production comparable to draft position or "what they were supposed to be" 

(maybe upshaw shouldn't be here but I don't think he lived up to 35 pick and his hype) 

I also believe the ray rice debacle hurt the team badly as well with his contract fallout beyond all the media fallout 

[codizzle]

Just now, codizzle said:

I think the frustration lies elsewhere than harbaugh. 

Im more frustrated in misses in  high draft picks that have been pretty much complete misses. 

Elam,upshaw,pierce,Gilmore (becoming one but too early to tell yet), brooks, Arthur brown, maxx Williams, Carl Davis 

All drafted  in rounds 1-3 from 2012-2015 and have given little to no production comparable to draft position or "what they were supposed to be" 

(maybe upshaw shouldn't be here but I don't think he lived up to 35 pick and his hype) 

I also believe the ray rice debacle hurt the team badly as well with his contract fallout beyond all the media fallout 

Ravens have drafted way too many "project players" in rounds 2-4 in the last six years or so 

[usmccharles]

6 minutes ago, codizzle said:

Ravens have drafted way too many "project players" in rounds 2-4 in the last six years or so 

I would love to know how the draft process goes and who has what say and how much say. 

[Purple Punishment]

4 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I would love to know how the draft process goes and who has what say and how much say. 

Yes because whoever said let's trade back and not take Noah Spence because Correa is a game changer, needs to be canned

[usmccharles]

Just now, Purple Punishment said:

Yes because whoever said let's trade back and not take Noah Spence because Correa is a game changer, needs to be canned

Yep.  Thats still the pick that has me losing my mind.  Im no scout, but i see nothing why he should of been our pick.  I would love to know how are board looking in that second round with who was available. And.....the Reynolds pick....still....dont...get...it

[allblackraven]

20 minutes ago, codizzle said:

I think the frustration lies elsewhere than harbaugh. 

Im more frustrated in misses in  high draft picks that have been pretty much complete misses. 

Elam,upshaw,pierce,Gilmore (becoming one but too early to tell yet), brooks, Arthur brown, maxx Williams, Carl Davis 

All drafted  in rounds 1-3 from 2012-2015 and have given little to no production comparable to draft position or "what they were supposed to be" 

(maybe upshaw shouldn't be here but I don't think he lived up to 35 pick and his hype) 

I also believe the ray rice debacle hurt the team badly as well with his contract fallout beyond all the media fallout 

I definitely agree with that, early rounds scouting has been mostly terrible since SB. Add Correa to that list.

I also think there's some Harbaugh footprint in that, too.

[RavensDieHard21]

3 hours ago, Purple Punishment said:

Yes because whoever said let's trade back and not take Noah Spence because Correa is a game changer, needs to be canned

I love the people on this board that go " oh you're so smart, which GM job do you have?" When in reality we all knew Correa looked raw and played in a crap conference against mediocre talent. Spence or Yannick from Maryland would have been a heck of a lot better. There had 5.5 and 9 sacks while Correa couldn't even hit the field.

[RavensDieHard21]

All I am saying is that if we miss playoffs in 17' there are no more excuses to give. Clean house. We have had talent, but then let it leave. We have had poor player development and terrible early picks in the draft. Pretty bad in game decision making and half time adjustments. Which that is directly related to coaching. Harbaugh has to get the job done and find a OC or we need a coach with an identity and commitment to winning. 

[kjbmore]

50 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

All I am saying is that if we miss playoffs in 17' there are no more excuses to give. Clean house. We have had talent, but then let it leave. We have had poor player development and terrible early picks in the draft. Pretty bad in game decision making and half time adjustments. Which that is directly related to coaching. Harbaugh has to get the job done and find a OC or we need a coach with an identity and commitment to winning. 

haha wonder if biscotti is looking at the 49ers though and not wanting to repeat their mistake

theyve unravelled since they let a harbaugh go

[RedFire]

1 hour ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

All I am saying is that if we miss playoffs in 17' there are no more excuses to give. Clean house. We have had talent, but then let it leave. We have had poor player development and terrible early picks in the draft. Pretty bad in game decision making and half time adjustments. Which that is directly related to coaching. Harbaugh has to get the job done and find a OC or we need a coach with an identity and commitment to winning. 

 

Billick had a good talent development system. 

[Steve0x]

8 minutes ago, RedFire said:

 

Billick had a good talent development system. 

You think Kyle Boller was talented? 

[RavensDieHard21]

6 hours ago, kjbmore said:

haha wonder if biscotti is looking at the 49ers though and not wanting to repeat their mistake

theyve unravelled since they let a harbaugh go

Despite having won the SB, I think Jim is the superior coach. He has more of a mindset for offense as well as defense as opposed to Harbaugh who is a ST coach that relies mainly on his coordinators. Their is no touch of Harbaugh on either unit. The niners were destined to decline though. Harbaugh leaving just made it worse. They lost their entire roster basically.

[RavensDieHard21]

5 hours ago, RedFire said:

 

Billick had a good talent development system. 

I just left that in the billick years we consistently drafted and developed amazing talent or at least they were very good in our system. I mean Ray, Reed, Scott, Ngata, Suggs, Lewis, McAllister, JO etc. we have developed some players, but many have just busted and weren't even good within the system itself let alone for a another team. Elam, Brown, Cody, Upshaw( he was good at what he did) Correa, Perriman, Gilmore, Brooks, etc. 

[arnie_uk]

His fate will now lie with what Pees and marty do or don't do.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

1 minute ago, arnie_uk said:

His fate will now lie with what Pees and marty do or don't do.

He's basically screwed

[rmcjacket23]

9 hours ago, RedFire said:

 

Billick had a good talent development system. 

Examples?

[rmcjacket23]

15 hours ago, codizzle said:

Ravens have drafted way too many "project players" in rounds 2-4 in the last six years or so 

Well, in their defense, the overwhelming majority of players being drafted in those rounds (especially rounds like 3 & 4) league-wide are "project players".

If they were can't miss prospects that were at the highest level at their position, then they'd be drafted earlier, likely in round 1 or 2. 

I think fans need to realize that when we draft an Alex Lewis or a Tavon Young, they are "projects". These aren't guys that we are 100% certain are going to come in and start right away and play great. If we were certain of that, then we'd draft them earlier than we do. We may THINK that they can do it, but ultimately those kinds of guys come in and compete for playing time or starting job. I rarely see any team take a 3rd or 4th rounder at any position and hand them a starting job, whereas the expectation of 1st round picks is that they will typically come in, play right away, and contribute at a high level.

Imagine if Tavon Young didn't play well or couldn't carve out playing time. You know what fans would call him? They'd call him another "project player" that the Ravens drafted and didn't pan out. But we don't call him that, because he played well for us. We don't call guys that play well for us "projects".

[RaineV1]

Now he's really on the hot seat. I think Harbaugh can be great with the right people around him. Unfortunately he's not that good at going out and getting those people, and settles for his friends way too often.

[cajmax]

17 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I would love to know how the draft process goes and who has what say and how much say. 

rumor has it "eric decosta" ever think why our drafts suck?

[usmccharles]

3 minutes ago, cajmax said:

rumor has it "eric decosta" ever think why our drafts suck?

Yea I heard the same thing, mainly from members on here that DeCosta was the one making picks for the last couple years.  Since that was from  members on here and no links, obviously nothing credible. 

[cajmax]

2 hours ago, arnie_uk said:

His fate will now lie with what Pees and marty do or don't do.

harbs will throw both under the bus if he has too! but that's  next year, I want to hear the end of the year presser with steve b.

[rafahash]

He is now.

[sflegend89]

Harbs time is up. I think clearly the teams has stagnated under him and there are no signs that anything will change. Harbaugh doesn't have the answers we need, this roster has too much talent to waste away under-achieving for another year.

Harbs and Marty need to go. When something is broke you fix it. It is insane to keep the staff on board and expect different results next year. We're in for a repeat of 2016 with them, mark my words. See the writing on the wall and move on when the time is right, not when it's too late.

[Tyler]

Honestly, HIGHLY questionable coaching decisions, both in game, and in building his staff, paired with the lack of success this team has seen after the departure of guys like Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, has ultimately exposed John Harbaugh as a vastly overrated head coach, imo. It pisses me off as a die hard fan to witness the lack of accountability and fire week in and week out from both Flacco and Harbaugh. I hope, for his sake, Mornhinweg can figure things out, because this is not a city that likes to lose, nor is it one that likes to wait. 

[JO_75]

3 hours ago, arnie_uk said:

His fate will now lie with what Pees and marty do or don't do.

I think that's how it will work next year. Extend him one year to avoid the lame duck status, but give him one more year to get us back to the playoffs. I imagine if we miss the playoffs, Harbaugh will be gone. Plus it would be easier for Steve and Ozzie to bring in a whole new coaching staff rather bring in new coordinators for one year, then the new HC wants 2 different coordinators.

Edited January 3 by JO_75

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

18 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I would love to know how the draft process goes and who has what say and how much say. 

And to be fair a couple of the players you listed - Maxx, Carl Davis, probably even Gillmore - its too early to call yet. Maxx looked good at times rookie year and then was IR this year. Carl Davis started well and cooled off, and then IRed this year. GIllmore started to break out last year and then injuries derailed him.

Mosley and Perriman both look to be guys that will live up to their draft stock. And 2016 draft was an absolute homerun.

I mean, its pretty amazing when we draft higher than 26 we do pretty well. And thats historically speaking as well. We had some dud drafts back in the day that led to some down years. Then we started hitting again like '05-'08 when we were drafting relatively high again... starting cooling off '10-'13, and have been better of late without as many playoff appearances.

 

Just how the cycle works. Im sure this stretch of a couple years drafting top 15 will re-stock the personnel and set us up for another run of playoffs for 4-5 years starting in the next 1-3 years. And after that run we'll prob see another 2-4 year lull.

[usmccharles]

1 minute ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

And to be fair a couple of the players you listed - Maxx, Carl Davis, probably even Gillmore - its too early to call yet. Maxx looked good at times rookie year and then was IR this year. Carl Davis started well and cooled off, and then IRed this year. GIllmore started to break out last year and then injuries derailed him.

Mosley and Perriman both look to be guys that will live up to their draft stock. And 2016 draft was an absolute homerun.

I mean, its pretty amazing when we draft higher than 26 we do pretty well. And thats historically speaking as well. We had some dud drafts back in the day that led to some down years. Then we started hitting again like '05-'08 when we were drafting relatively high again... starting cooling off '10-'13, and have been better of late without as many playoff appearances.

 

Just how the cycle works. Im sure this stretch of a couple years drafting top 15 will re-stock the personnel and set us up for another run of playoffs for 4-5 years starting in the next 1-3 years. And after that run we'll prob see another 2-4 year lull.

Wait...did you mean to quote me? I don't remember bring up carl davis.