• Announcements

    • Admin 3

      UPDATED: MESSAGE BOARDS CLOSING AFTER DRAFT   03/08/2017

      After careful consideration, we have decided that we will sunset our message boards after this year's NFL Draft. Since we opened our boards a decade ago, the digital landscape has greatly evolved. While we understand there remains a smaller group of highly-engaged fans who participate in conversation in our forums, a significant amount of the dialogue about our team and our games has migrated away to other social media platforms over the past several years. Our message boards will remain up and running through Friday, May 5th, and will be removed on May 6th. We recognize that this change may upset avid members of our community. However, we look to utilize our time and resources to focus on how we can best connect with our fans across an array of digital/social outlets. If you are not already engaging us and other members of the Ravens Flock on our Facebook page, Instagram account, through Twitter or Snapchat, we invite you to follow us on those channels and continue to participate in our social communities. In addition, the commenting feature on our website articles will remain intact. Members will be able to continue using their boards account to log in and share their thoughts at the bottom of every news story. We’d like to thank all the Flock members and our moderators who have brought thoughtful conversation to this space and made our community great for the last 10 years. Ravens Social Media Hub »
kennethyamini1989

Is Harbaugh on the Hot Seat Yet

1,243 posts in this topic

To me Harbaugh is completely to blame. No excuses. When you have some coach that tries a trick play he is basically admitting that he has no confidence in his offense to make plays to score or on the defense to stop the opposing team. Yes, the players messed up but ultimately his coaching failed us and cost us 2 games that we should have won. And ultimately his choice of coaches like testerman who thank god was just fired (and I am surmising it wasn't harbaughs decision but biscotti finally getting tired of harbaughs losing games because of his decision making)... I believe soon they will be also looking for a new head coach. And to also add insult to injury Harbaugh was a special teams coach and if we should excel anywhere it should be special teams. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, kennethyamini1989 said:

microcosms man 

You still don't get it do ya?

My advice... don't post on this thread anymore. There's no possible scenario where you live this down or anybody takes the content of what you post seriously.

Just can't be undone at this point.

Edited by rmcjacket23
-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

You still don't get it do ya?

My advice... don't post on this thread anymore. There's no possible scenario where you live this down or anybody takes the content of what you post seriously.

Just can't be undone at this point.

Live down the misspelling of an extremely uncommon name on an informal thread? As I said, the premise of the thread was inherently understood. I am not an editor and didn't care to spell his name correctly as that wasn't my focus of the post. I thank the moderator for correcting it, but if your angle is to discredit the entire post/it's author (me) based on the misspelling of an unusual name then that is your prerogative. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, kennethyamini1989 said:

Live down the misspelling of a name that has been discussed here for the past 8+ years?

Fixed

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Fixed

I don't often spell out his full name. Most do not, hence the nick name "Harbs" as that is easier to remember how to spell. Either way the I got the message across :)

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, kennethyamini1989 said:

Either way the I got the message across :)

You certainly did. The common opinion is he is here to stay.

A guy like him shouldn't be on the hot seat. More like the "are you kidding me? fix it next week" seat.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, kennethyamini1989 said:

Live down the misspelling of an extremely uncommon name on an informal thread? As I said, the premise of the thread was inherently understood. I am not an editor and didn't care to spell his name correctly as that wasn't my focus of the post. I thank the moderator for correcting it, but if your angle is to discredit the entire post/it's author (me) based on the misspelling of an unusual name then that is your prerogative. 

Well its kind of hard to say its an "uncommon" name, specifically on a football forum.

Just because people understood what you were trying to say doesn't make it any better. I'm fully aware that you didn't care to spend the extra five seconds to check the spelling of his name... that is quite clear and evident. And that's probably the bigger issue here. People don't trust opinions of people who can't bother to spend those extra couple seconds to spell-check the actual headline, because if you won't take that little amount of time to fix it, its kind of hard to sell people on you putting in enough time watching this team to make an assessment of who should be the HC.

And obviously, I'm not alone in that prerogative either.

For what its worth, I get it. You created this thread to push your own personal narrative of trying to get Harbaugh out of here. You want him out, you want Joe out, and you think unicorns exist. I get it, I really do.

But that agenda isn't going to sell, so its up to you whether you want to keep investing time into something that won't sell.

 

-3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well its kind of hard to say its an "uncommon" name, specifically on a football forum.

Just because people understood what you were trying to say doesn't make it any better. I'm fully aware that you didn't care to spend the extra five seconds to check the spelling of his name... that is quite clear and evident. And that's probably the bigger issue here. People don't trust opinions of people who can't bother to spend those extra couple seconds to spell-check the actual headline, because if you won't take that little amount of time to fix it, its kind of hard to sell people on you putting in enough time watching this team to make an assessment of who should be the HC.

And obviously, I'm not alone in that prerogative either.

For what its worth, I get it. You created this thread to push your own personal narrative of trying to get Harbaugh out of here. You want him out, you want Joe out, and you think unicorns exist. I get it, I really do.

But that agenda isn't going to sell, so its up to you whether you want to keep investing time into something that won't sell.

 

I asked if John was on the Hot Seat, I made no indications that I necessarily wanted him gone. As far as Joe, I have never said I wanted him gone, I simply said he is overpaid and overvalued..which he is in my opinion which can be backed by years of average to sub par seasons from Joe. Where the unicorns thing came from, I do not know. I will say though I believe I am qualified simply because the Ravens are a team I have followed for at lease 15 years. I simply don't blindly support a player/coach because they are on the team i choose to root for. I got a lot of flack when I called Ray Lewis out the season he retired because I said HE was the reason teams were winning (which he was), and the season Brian lost his job I was called out when i was asking was he on the hot seat. I know people don't like hearing my opinion, because often they aren't the ones folks want to hear, but more often than not I am usually correct in my assessments. As far as Joe goes, only time will tell, but if he keeps putting up mediocre seasons hes only going to invite more scrutiny. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

You still don't get it do ya?

My advice... don't post on this thread anymore. There's no possible scenario where you live this down or anybody takes the content of what you post seriously.

Just can't be undone at this point.

Because he spelled a name wrong?

Come on man it's not that big of a deal. He made a mistake and it was corrected. 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, kennethyamini1989 said:

I asked if John was on the Hot Seat, I made no indications that I necessarily wanted him gone. As far as Joe, I have never said I wanted him gone, I simply said he is overpaid and overvalued..which he is in my opinion which can be backed by years of average to sub par seasons from Joe. Where the unicorns thing came from, I do not know. I will say though I believe I am qualified simply because the Ravens are a team I have followed for at lease 15 years. I simply don't blindly support a player/coach because they are on the team i choose to root for. I got a lot of flack when I called Ray Lewis out the season he retired because I said HE was the reason teams were winning (which he was), and the season Brian lost his job I was called out when i was asking was he on the hot seat. I know people don't like hearing my opinion, because often they aren't the ones folks want to hear, but more often than not I am usually correct in my assessments. As far as Joe goes, only time will tell, but if he keeps putting up mediocre seasons hes only going to invite more scrutiny. 

Not being a ****, but I think that the negativity you are constantly bringing puts people in a defensive mindset any time you say anything. You have the right to ask that about Harbaugh, and you were also right to ask the question, it was a legitimate question, not an idiotic one like the "Why is Flacco still here?" questions that constantly get asked.

But when you laugh at and mock the team in game threads, don't be surprised when people laugh at and mock you for something like this. And it IS embarrassing to misspell our own HC's name, it makes us all look like idiots because we get a lot of fans from other teams visiting here. Just do what I do when I feel too lazy to spell someone's name correctly and use their nickname instead. Or make one up if they don't have one.

As for Flacco, by my count he has had one mediocre season, back in 2013. Last year was an incomplete due to injury. Where you get the idea that he "keeps putting up mediocre seasons" is beyond me, although I have a pretty good idea why a small portion of our fans would say that.

Edited by flynismo
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, kennethyamini1989 said:

I asked if John was on the Hot Seat, I made no indications that I necessarily wanted him gone. As far as Joe, I have never said I wanted him gone, I simply said he is overpaid and overvalued..which he is in my opinion which can be backed by years of average to sub par seasons from Joe. Where the unicorns thing came from, I do not know. I will say though I believe I am qualified simply because the Ravens are a team I have followed for at lease 15 years. I simply don't blindly support a player/coach because they are on the team i choose to root for. I got a lot of flack when I called Ray Lewis out the season he retired because I said HE was the reason teams were winning (which he was), and the season Brian lost his job I was called out when i was asking was he on the hot seat. I know people don't like hearing my opinion, because often they aren't the ones folks want to hear, but more often than not I am usually correct in my assessments. As far as Joe goes, only time will tell, but if he keeps putting up mediocre seasons hes only going to invite more scrutiny. 

LOL, nobody buts fans care about scrutiny. Do you think Harbaugh fired Trestman because the fans wanted him to?

Joe was scrutinized 10 minutes after he was named SB MVP... that's just how fans do things, because they don't know any better.

The reality is that scrutinizing a player who's locked onto the roster for many years and is a crucial reason why the franchise has seen the success they have is just a waste of time. Its just a method for fans to make themselves feel better about themselves. Its scrutiny for the sake of scrutiny... its not anywhere near productive or relevant. 

As far as the whole "overpaid" or "overvalued" concept, most fans don't have any vague clue of what the value of a player like he is. If you REALLY want to get what the value of a player like him is, its probably triple what he's been paid, because of the revenue streams that he creates for his employer. That's REAL value. It has nothing to do with whether a QB on another team is doing better for less... that doesn't matter, because those things even themselves out over time 100% of the time. 

If we want to play the "well he's overpaid compared to his peers" card, which again isn't realistic anyway, we pretty much know the floor for average QBs in this league is $18M a year. That's the minimum any human being could justifiably pay Flacco right now. He's making $22M. If you think he's $4M overpaid, cool. Not sure what exactly you plan on doing with that $4M or how you plan on turning a mediocre team into a SB contender with $4M, but I'm sure fans will convince themselves that's the case.

-2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, GhostofGrbac said:

Because he spelled a name wrong?

Come on man it's not that big of a deal. He made a mistake and it was corrected. 

There's a fine line between mistakes and laziness...

 

-4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on the comments I have been reading, HAVE YOU LOST CONFIDENCE in Harbs ability to right this ship?

Are we sunk, dead in the water now, bilge pumps cant keep up?

Or can he get this thing fixed?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

Based on the comments I have been reading, HAVE YOU LOST CONFIDENCE in Harbs ability to right this ship?

Are we sunk, dead in the water now, bilge pumps cant keep up?

Or can he get this thing fixed?

He's already begun fixing it, by getting rid of this team's biggest problem this morning. This is not the first time he has faced adversity, and it won't be his last. Harbs is the man

Edited by flynismo
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

Based on the comments I have been reading, HAVE YOU LOST CONFIDENCE in Harbs ability to right this ship?

Are we sunk, dead in the water now, bilge pumps cant keep up?

Or can he get this thing fixed?

We're 3-2 dude

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

Based on the comments I have been reading, HAVE YOU LOST CONFIDENCE in Harbs ability to right this ship?

Are we sunk, dead in the water now, bilge pumps cant keep up?

Or can he get this thing fixed?

In most cases, the ability to "right a ship" has very little to do with coaches. They don't play the game.

 

-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

In most cases, the ability to "right a ship" has very little to do with coaches. They don't play the game.

 

They can sure as heck ruin a game though

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, flynismo said:

They can sure as heck ruin a game though

Maybe. They can negatively impact a game. Even as poorly a job as Trestman did this week and in prior weeks, we lost by 6 points yesterday. The three biggest plays of the game were a punt return TD we allowed (had nothing to do with Trestman), a fumble out of the endzone on an INT (had nothing to do with Trestman) and a WR not getting his feet down on a perfect throw (actually a positive for Trestman, since he called the play).

Any deviation at all from any of those three things and we might have easily won that game, despite the lack of good coaching.

They can positively or negatively impact a game, but in most cases (not all, but most), they'll never actually win or lose you a game. They just don't really have that kind of power.

-4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, he called that stupid fake field goal which I knew would work from the last row of Section 509.  He has a losing record since winning the Super Bowl.  

-2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/10/2016 at 8:36 PM, rmcjacket23 said:

In most cases, the ability to "right a ship" has very little to do with coaches. They don't play the game.

I understand holding players accountable. I totally agree, these are professional players but these are professional coaches too. They both have a job to do. They don't play the game but they do coach it. Players progress is a reflection upon them. Ref doesn't walk up to the players if/when they want to accept a penalty so I have to disagree and say yeah, they can win or lose you a game. Sean Peyton's ballsy choice to do that on-side kick in the SB could've have turned out to be a complete disaster if he had gone the wrong way. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I understand holding players accountable. I totally agree, these are professional players but these are professional coaches too. They both have a job to do. They don't play the game but they do coach it. Players progress is a reflection upon them. Ref doesn't walk up to the players if/when they want to accept a penalty so I have to disagree and say yeah, they can win or lose you a game. Sean Peyton's ballsy choice to do that on-side kick in the SB could've have turned out to be a complete disaster if he had gone the wrong way. 

Yeah but you're making my point for me with that example. Sean Payton can call that onside kick and even design it. But what can't he do? He can't kick the ball, he can't block in the right places, and he can't recover the kick. There's no middle ground with the assessment of that play.

If it works = Payton is a genius

If it fails = Payton is a moron.

Nevermind the fact that its entirely possible that it could be a genius play call that was just poorly executed. But fans very rarely ever consider that as a possibility. They just look at the outcome and assign blame accordingly. Much in the same way it happened with Harbaugh accepting that penalty. Ravens get a sack on 3rd and 17 or even do what a normal defense would do and not give up a 1st down, nobody thinks twice about it, or he's even seen as a genius for accepting it. But because basically four things went completely wrong after that decision, he's a moron for it. Kind of hard to consider that as a logical determination.

All he can do is stand there and watch. That's the point about coaches. They can draw up schemes and designs and teach players how to do certain things, but they can't ever actually do them. I can say confidently that no coach in the history of the NFL has ever devised a game plan or even individual play call with the intention of it failing. In most cases, its a similar scheme or play call that you've already seen, and in the past, it has actually succeeded on numerous occasions. But fans ignore that, because they only care about play calling and schemes when they don't work. 

I'm usually the last guy calling for coaches to be fired. Many times its warranted, because as you said, the teams overall performance is a reflection of them, and they need to be held accountable for it, much in the same way a business manager would be held accountable for their organizations or segments performance. He can be a bad leader, he can be a bad teacher of the game, he can even be a bad game planner. But at the end of the day, the overwhelming majority of his job performance is based solely on things he can't control. He can't control when a QB throws a bad pass, or a player misses a blocking assignment, or a receiver drops a pass, or a player misses a tackle. He's not coaching his players to do those things... they're making those mistakes on their own. And eventually, if enough of those mistakes are made, the team loses, and he loses his job. That's the circle of life for an NFL coach.

At least with players, most of their failures fall on their own shoulders. So in a way, at least they control their own destiny.

Edited by rmcjacket23
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A coach, any coach, has ONE job. To put the players in a position to succeed.

When it's 3rd and 9 in the red zone, and you run the ball, you are not putting the players in a position to succeed.

When you pass the ball 47 times and run it 19, in a game that was decided by one possession, you are not putting the players in a position to succeed.

It's real easy to say, "I called a run on 3rd and 9, its your job to execute and get those 9 yards."

Yes, guys drop balls, miss blocks or throws an inaccurate pass.

But that does not excuse you for failing to do your one and only job -- putting people in a position to succeed.

If you do nothing but call short quick passes outside the hashes regardless of the situation, is it really out of your control when the defense sits on everything and your offense cannot overcome your irresponsible and predictable play calling?

I think people underestimate the impact that coaching has on the outcome of games. Unless it comes to Brady or the Pats, or Harbaugh making an aggressive call on 4th down, then coaching is solely responsible for the success of individuals and the team.

Edited by flynismo
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have pointed out Harbaugh's weaknesses for several years now. I truly believe that Ray lewis deserves MUCH more credit for the last Super Bowl win than does Harbs. Simply looking at Harbs' win-loss record since Ray's retirement is telling. Harbs has Never been good at clock management, in game decisions, in game adjustments, challenge flag decisions, having his team ready to play from the opening whistle, motivating his players, getting the most out of his players, holding them accountable for bone-headed plays and penalties, and making smart calls on critical plays. There are probably some other deficiencies. Add to that his tendency to only want "yes men" as coaches and players, and that's quite a laundry list of cons, and I think that they far outnumber his list of pros, which he does, undoubtably, have. But, I honestly believe that his early success as our HC is more attributable to his good fortune of inheriting a team with a great defense and, especially, Ray Lewis, the True leader of Harbaugh's early teams. So, yes, I do think that Harbaugh should, at the very least, be on the hot seat. I guess that, bottom line, as he said about Trestman, I don't feel good about the direction the Ravens are heading in with Harbs as our HC. And to be sure, having to conclude this doesn't really fill me with a great deal of satisfaction. I have Always hated to see a man lose his job, but what's most important is the future of the Baltimore Ravens.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes, 

his seat should and I think very HOT,

he is the HC, our ST coach 

he is responsible , he plays a role in the draft, players that can play ST is his choice,

yes, yes and yes

he made this team his and lack the intellect to put players and coaches in position for success

this is not meant to belittle the HC,

but

if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck

it's a duck

no more excuses  

 

-2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If he isn't, Mr. B is not the fan of football I thought he was. It is a Head Coach's main responsibility to put his team in a position to win, purely and simply. Week in and week out, he does the opposite. Instead of taking a 13-6 lead in the 1st half of the Redskins game, we tried to trick the opponent by lining up our FG kicker as a left-footed kicker and faking a FG. That was a decision borne out of panic. The team came away with zero points and it was a giant momentum swing for the hapless team we played from Washington. A week earlier, he panicked by calling for a 2 point conversion when it wasn't necessary by most experts. It ultimately cost us at least an opportunity to extend the game to OT on a day when we were dominating our opponent in every phase of the game. This poor decision-making is what is most responsible for us not being 5-0. When it comes to decision-making, a manager or coach has to leave his or her ego at the door. The recent photo I saw of Coach Harbaugh standing on the sideline with his index finger on his lip was the most telling of all. He is clueless and does not exude confidence among the fans or his players. I remember seeing the ball coach Steve Spurrier striking a similar pose on the sidelines not long before he resigned as HC of the team from Washington. Wake up and smell the roses, people! I'm not sayin Marc Trestman was a great playcaller. I am sayin he was a scapegoat. Who's next on the chopping block? Its a no brainer. If we wind up with a record of less than 9-7 given the easy schedule we were handed, he's gone.

-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

If he isn't, Mr. B is not the fan of football I thought he was. It is a Head Coach's main responsibility to put his team in a position to win, purely and simply. Week in and week out, he does the opposite. Instead of taking a 13-6 lead in the 1st half of the Redskins game, we tried to trick the opponent by lining up our FG kicker as a left-footed kicker and faking a FG. That was a decision borne out of panic. The team came away with zero points and it was a giant momentum swing for the hapless team we played from Washington. A week earlier, he panicked by calling for a 2 point conversion when it wasn't necessary by most experts. It ultimately cost us at least an opportunity to extend the game to OT on a day when we were dominating our opponent in every phase of the game. This poor decision-making is what is most responsible for us not being 5-0. When it comes to decision-making, a manager or coach has to leave his or her ego at the door. The recent photo I saw of Coach Harbaugh standing on the sideline with his index finger on his lip was the most telling of all. He is clueless and does not exude confidence among the fans or his players. I remember seeing the ball coach Steve Spurrier striking a similar pose on the sidelines not long before he resigned as HC of the team from Washington. Wake up and smell the roses, people! I'm not sayin Marc Trestman was a great playcaller. I am sayin he was a scapegoat. Who's next on the chopping block? Its a no brainer. If we wind up with a record of less than 9-7 given the easy schedule we were handed, he's gone.

Harbaugh has a career winning record, and we're 3-2 so far. Try and keep up if you can. I know it's hard from up there on your soapbox.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

It is a Head Coach's main responsibility to put his team in a position to win

The Ravens were in position to win the last 2 games.  If receivers make a play in each of those games, we win. (or in the case of the Raiders game, set up Tucker to win it)  Those 2 things happen and we are 5-0 and people would be saying how Harbaugh is in the running for coach of the year.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Harbaugh should definitely be on the hot seat... his coaching decisions the past few years have led directly to losses, including the last 2. That's just not acceptable... that being said, most NFL Head Coaches are at least on a "warm" seat because it's all about winning, and we haven't been recently. The Super Bowl definitely bought him a few years though.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lol. I love this "he has a losing record since winning the SB" "stat" if you wanna call it that.

Which is exactly the same as saying "He has one losing season - last year when 99% of the team died."

 

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now