Is Harbaugh on the Hot Seat Yet

[52520Andrew]

8 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

if you could why are you not?

 

Because there are quite a few coordinators who could do it better than me, in fact there are many. That is the point I am trying to make when saying that. They have gone though a decent amount of guys there and does that offense drop off when one leaves? How much do you think the Pats are stressing over losing McDaniels? They know they can get similar results without him and they have. Conpare that to what we were thinking when Kubiak went to Denver. Difference is night and day.

Edited October 24, 2016 by 52520Andrew

[Tru11]

12 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Because there are quite a few coordinators who could do it better than me, in fact there are many. That is the point I am trying to make when saying that. They have gone though a decent amount of guys there and does that offense drop off when one leaves? How much do you think the Pats are stressing over losing McDaniels? They know they can get similar results without him and they have. Conpare that to what we were thinking when Kubiak went to Denver. Difference is night and day.

Have you looked at who was the QB for Mcdaniels in Denver?
Have you looked at the stats that QB put up?

His QB was Kyle Orton both seasons.

1st season Orton had 3800 yards 21 TD and 12 int in 15 games as a starter.
2nd season Orton had 3600 yards 20TD and 9 int in 13 games.

Cant think of many coaches who can do the same with someone like Orton and i know for a fact you cant do it or you would have been at least an OC in the NFL.

He might not be a good HC but he is a pretty good darn good OC.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Tru11

[BmoreBird22]

46 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Yeah took a decent team and transformed them into the #2 overall pick in less than 2 years. Sounds like a great coach to me. 

He had a year and a half. When has that ever been acceptable to evaluate anyone in the NFL? Not to mention they were an incredibly mediocre team before he even got there.

[BmoreBird22]

37 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Okay maybe not all that but with Brady it is easy. I think Bill deserves more credit for their start than anything else though. It is like Rex Ryan doing well with Ray and Ed. I don't trust him one bit as HC and I hope we go in another direction if we do fire Harbs. 

I'm not saying that he's the fit for Baltimore, but BB is a defensive minded coach first and foremost and McDaniels even had decent offenses in Denver. 

[52520Andrew]

4 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

Have you looked at who was the QB for Mcdaniels in Denver?
Have you looked at the stats that QB put up?

His QB was Kyle Orton both seasons.

1st season Orton had 3800 yards 21 TD and 12 int in 15 games as a starter.
2nd season Orton had 3600 yards 20TD and 9 int in 13 games.

Cant think of many coaches who can do the same with someone like Orton and i know for a fact you cant do it or you would have been at least an OC in the NFL.

He might not be a good HC but he is a pretty good darn good OC.

He traded Cutler for Orton. Making my point for me here

[Willbacker]

19 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

 

 

Whoops. Accidently hit quote when I meant to hit next page lol.

As far as Harbs is concerned he needs to be evaluated but not until the end of the season.

 

[52520Andrew]

13 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I'm not saying that he's the fit for Baltimore, but BB is a defensive minded coach first and foremost and McDaniels even had decent offenses in Denver. 

Well he had better have had decent offenses. He got rid of just about all the staff on offense and brought his own guys in. The couple people who were retained ended up quitting after the season. Their DC also quit after the first season. Sounds like he would mesh great with the F.O.

Edited October 24, 2016 by 52520Andrew
Because nesh isn't a word

[wizard1]

2 hours ago, FerrariFan87 said:

I love Harbs, but I think his time is up... this team is ill-prepared too often and his coaching decisions on and off the field have been meh. We need a new voice, not to mention this putrid offensive system needs a complete overhaul... Ozzie also needs to be evaluated. He's not Superman anymore. Far from it. Too many bad drafts. Too many slow, non-athletic skill players.

Amen. As this season progresses it will be apparent that Har-Ball has to go and I'm excited to think we may start rebuilding and things will start to improve.

[52520Andrew]

2 minutes ago, wizard1 said:

Amen. As this season progresses it will be apparent that Har-Ball has to go and I'm excited to think we may start rebuilding and things will start to improve.

I am trying really hard to imagine you actually being excited about the Ravens if we make some moves. I don't think I can picture it lol

[Tru11]

1 minute ago, 52520Andrew said:

He traded Cutler for Orton. Making my point for me here

What point are you trying to make?

Have you seen Cutler numbers after that trade?

He made the right call tbh.

 

 

[52520Andrew]

Just now, Tru11 said:

What point are you trying to make?

Have you seen Cutler numbers after that trade?

He made the right call tbh.

 

 

Cutler is still in the NFL and as dumb as his contract was he did get one. 

You just trashed Orton for me and he isn't in the NFL. And why is McDaniels trading for him if Orton is so terrible? If we are clearing everyone out including Flacco, we may want someone who can actually evaluate QB talent.

I should add that Cutler was actually looking promising in Denver and going to the Bears is probably the worst thing that could have happened to him. 

[Tru11]

1 minute ago, 52520Andrew said:

Cutler is still in the NFL and as dumb as his contract was he did get one. 

You just trashed Orton for me and he isn't in the NFL. And why is McDaniels trading for him if Orton is so terrible? If we are clearing everyone out including Flacco, we may want someone who can actually evaluate QB talent.

I should add that Cutler was actually looking promising in Denver and going to the Bears is probably the worst thing that could have happened to him. 

what is hard to understand about a system coach trying to get players that fit their system?

that is actually what you want from a coach.

Cutler is not a fit for the system that Mcdaniels uses.

Also it actually says a lot that a coach like McDanields could actually get that of production out of such a terrible QB.
It means that his system works....

[52520Andrew]

Just now, Tru11 said:

what is hard to understand about a system coach trying to get players that fit their system?

that is actually what you want from a coach.

Cutler is not a fit for the system that Mcdaniels uses.

Also it actually says a lot that a coach like McDanields could actually get that of production out of such a terrible QB.
It means that his system works....

So you want a guy who will run a decent QB out of town to bring in a terrible QB that fits his system? And you think that is what is going to fix this team? 

[Tru11]

6 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

So you want a guy who will run a decent QB out of town to bring in a terrible QB that fits his system? And you think that is what is going to fix this team? 

can you quote where i said any of this?

 

[Cillmatic]

The fact that we could have an anti-head coach MUTINY and STILL win the SUPER BOWL tells you how important Harbaugh really is.

[chesapeakeaviator]

Josh McDaniels?  Are we talking about the same guy who got caught cheating but still finished the final 22 games of his HC career at 5-17 (taking over a team that was disappointing at 8-8 after being projected to win the AFC West), the guy who would take every bad situation and exacerbate it to the nth degree, the guy who chased out an admittedly kooky Jay Cutler but was forced to take Kyle Orton instead, who traded Peyton Hillis and a draft pick to Cleveland (where he put up over 1,000 yards) for a QB who appeared on the active roster one time because he, ahem, supposedly "hit on his wife," who chased out Brandon Marshall, who drafted Knowshon Moreno with #12, who had Earl Thomas sitting at his pick (couldn't miss prospect) but traded the pick for Alphonso Smith (who he traded for Dan Gronkowski), who picked Tim Tebow in the first round, who gave three and a half mil guaranteed to a guy who failed to make the roster out of training camp, who chased out every affordable veteran already under contract to try and pick up expensive New England free agents--even at LONG SNAPPER--who became so hated among Denver players for his erratic behavior and score-settling that the entire city revolted against him at one point, who had Mike Nolan literally just QUIT on him and say that McDaniels is so unprofessional that he was impossible to work with, and who then went to St. Louis, who needed a press conference to assure furious fans that he would have no input into personnel decisions, and put up the 11th worst offense in NFL history at 12.1 points per game?

Sure, what could possibly go wrong?  We'd be lucky to have him.  That's why he didn't get hired in 2016.  So many teams were fighting over Josh that they all had to agree not to hire him and wait until 2017.

[ellicottraven]

At this point, Harbaugh has to be feeling the heat. If I'm Bisciotti I'm already making a plan B in the event, Harbs continues to lose games after the bye. I don't think finding another coach is going to be overt, but more covert. They're going to be searching and talking about it just in case they have to move on from him in a hurry. I don't know if we have a coach on staff right now that I would be comfortable taking over from him, but you never know. 

Personally I want Harbaugh to be here this full year to see if he can salvage this season. If he can't then the end of this season may be a good time to part ways.

Edited October 24, 2016 by ellicottraven

[PurpleCity5]

It took four years for the Giants to release Tom Coughlin after his 2nd SB win, so that's really how long I think it would take Harbaugh to get fired, but again, it would take a failed season after failed season for Harbaugh to go. He's a good coach, so I hope we keep him. Players need to take responsibility and play better

Edited October 24, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[gtalk12]

I am sort of losing faith in John...slowly

[MTRavensFan]

15 minutes ago, chesapeakeaviator said:

Josh McDaniels?  Are we talking about the same guy who got caught cheating but still finished the final 22 games of his HC career at 5-17 (taking over a team that was disappointing at 8-8 after being projected to win the AFC West), the guy who would take every bad situation and exacerbate it to the nth degree, the guy who chased out an admittedly kooky Jay Cutler but was forced to take Kyle Orton instead, who traded Peyton Hillis and a draft pick to Cleveland (where he put up over 1,000 yards) for a QB who appeared on the active roster one time because he, ahem, supposedly "hit on his wife," who chased out Brandon Marshall, who drafted Knowshon Moreno with #12, who had Earl Thomas sitting at his pick (couldn't miss prospect) but traded the pick for Alphonso Smith (who he traded for Dan Gronkowski), who picked Tim Tebow in the first round, who gave three and a half mil guaranteed to a guy who failed to make the roster out of training camp, who chased out every affordable veteran already under contract to try and pick up expensive New England free agents--even at LONG SNAPPER--who became so hated among Denver players for his erratic behavior and score-settling that the entire city revolted against him at one point, who had Mike Nolan literally just QUIT on him and say that McDaniels is so unprofessional that he was impossible to work with, and who then went to St. Louis, who needed a press conference to assure furious fans that he would have no input into personnel decisions, and put up the 11th worst offense in NFL history at 12.1 points per game?

Sure, what could possibly go wrong?  We'd be lucky to have him.  That's why he didn't get hired in 2016.  So many teams were fighting over Josh that they all had to agree not to hire him and wait until 2017.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! 

I'd forgotten just how horrible his time in Denver really was. There's even a website devoted to how much JoshMcDanielsSucks if you're looking for a few laughs. Too much profanity there to provide a link. 

[BmoreBird22]

Here's the thing that gets me about you all and Josh McDaniels. Again, not advocating for him necessarily, but I would love him on this staff in some shape or form.

He was given 28 games. We give players a full 48 games, sometimes more, to prove their worth. Why can the same standard not apply to coaches? Is it because double standards are nice and convenient? I'd venture that the answer is yes.

A player is given three full seasons, but a coach who has to craft a 53 man roster and manage an entire coaching staff is fairly judged after 28? Makes sense...

Moreover, if there were no second chances, we don't see John Fox in Denver (who won the AFCW for four straight seasons), no Kubiak in Denver, no Andy Reid in KC, no Bill Belichick in NE, no Pete Caroll in Seattle. I mean, do you all realize how difficult it is to be a first time head coach (especially for how young he was). Do you also realize people can learn?

[chesapeakeaviator]

22 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Here's the thing that gets me about you all and Josh McDaniels. Again, not advocating for him necessarily, but I would love him on this staff in some shape or form.

He was given 28 games. We give players a full 48 games, sometimes more, to prove their worth. Why can the same standard not apply to coaches? Is it because double standards are nice and convenient? I'd venture that the answer is yes.

A player is given three full seasons, but a coach who has to craft a 53 man roster and manage an entire coaching staff is fairly judged after 28? Makes sense...

Moreover, if there were no second chances, we don't see John Fox in Denver (who won the AFCW for four straight seasons), no Kubiak in Denver, no Andy Reid in KC, no Bill Belichick in NE, no Pete Caroll in Seattle. I mean, do you all realize how difficult it is to be a first time head coach (especially for how young he was). Do you also realize people can learn?

BmoreBird, I really like your stuff.  I think you are one of the best posters I've seen on here.  I've never, ever read anything you've read about defensive cover schemes and disagreed.  Or on anything else, really.  You talk down a lot of loonies in a very authoritative way, and far beyond anything I could ever do.  However, I had the pleasure of living in the metro Denver area during the McDaniels tenure.  IN GENERAL, I agree with you on coaches.  You'll rarely find me as passionate about a potential hire as I am with this one.  But not with this guy.  I got an unfortunate amount of Denver local media during that time, and if I were to liken him to a world leader, it wouldn't be a mediocre-to-below average US president.  It would be Kim Jong-un.  The thing blew up in his face, and while he kept getting the chance to show people even ONE reason why he was the victim of poor circumstances or had potential to right the ship a bit if given more time and experience, he would consistently double down and make it so, so, SO much worse than it had to be.  The X's and O's can remain a debate, but it was his leadership style and failures, not so much as a coach but usually as a human being, that just make me think that he won't be the guy you want at age 36, 46, 56, or 66.  If he was unquestionably the reason for the success in New England, I'd see it differently.  However, I think there's just as much evidence that he's a system guy as there is that he genuinely possesses rare wisdom, and given his leadership style and some examples of horrific behavior from guys who are universally respected around the league, I don't see what the pro-McDaniels camp is seeing.

I'm not saying I'm right.  I could be completely wrong and you might be right.  I'm just saying that I'm reacting the same way you might if you went to Los Angeles and they were talking about hiring Cam Cameron to resurrect their offense.  I think I understand why no one wanted to give this guy another shot at it, and why New England feels the need to politic for his hiring in public.

[wizard1]

25 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Here's the thing that gets me about you all and Josh McDaniels. Again, not advocating for him necessarily, but I would love him on this staff in some shape or form.

He was given 28 games. We give players a full 48 games, sometimes more, to prove their worth. Why can the same standard not apply to coaches? Is it because double standards are nice and convenient? I'd venture that the answer is yes.

A player is given three full seasons, but a coach who has to craft a 53 man roster and manage an entire coaching staff is fairly judged after 28? Makes sense...

Moreover, if there were no second chances, we don't see John Fox in Denver (who won the AFCW for four straight seasons), no Kubiak in Denver, no Andy Reid in KC, no Bill Belichick in NE, no Pete Caroll in Seattle. I mean, do you all realize how difficult it is to be a first time head coach (especially for how young he was). Do you also realize people can learn?

Thank you for this post. You so right. The perfect example is Bill Bellichek. Who got fired in Cleveland even tho he had a winning season. Look where he is today. McDaniels deserves another chance and he will get one. I just hope it's here. Let's put it this way-could he really do any worse than Har-Ball ?

[usmccharles]

13 minutes ago, wizard1 said:

Thank you for this post. You so right. The perfect example is Bill Bellichek. Who got fired in Cleveland even tho he had a winning season. Look where he is today. McDaniels deserves another chance and he will get one. I just hope it's here. Let's put it this way-could he really do any worse than Har-Ball ?

Yea i don't really get the hate on McDaniels either,  he is a great OC,  I am curious what he could do for flacco.   The issue in Denver was he had complete control of the roster if I remember correctly.   While you and I disagree about Harbs,  I would like McDaniels here if we were to let harbs go.   Sometimes you just need a fresh face,  I think harbs is on the hot seat next year.  

Edited October 24, 2016 by usmccharles

[52520Andrew]

1 hour ago, Tru11 said:

can you quote where i said any of this?

 

Well that is what McDaniels did in Denver, ran everyone out of town and brought terrible players like Kyle Orton in because they fit his system. You continue to toot his horn though. What am I supposed to interpret you as saying?

That he could make a terrible QB look okay in his system? Well we have an okay QB looking okay now. Swapping an okay QB playing okay with a terrible QB playing okay doesn't fix this team. 

[wizard1]

4 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Yea i don't really get the hate on McDaniels either,  he is a great OC,  I am curious what he could do for flacco.   The issue in Denver was he had complete control of the roster if I remember correctly.   While you and I disagree about Harbs,  I would like McDaniels here if we were to let harbs go.   Sometimes you just need a fresh face,  I think harbs is on the hot seat next year.  

Cool that we can agree on something ! So does that mean I don't know what I'm talking about either ? HaHa

[52520Andrew]

1 hour ago, chesapeakeaviator said:

Josh McDaniels?  Are we talking about the same guy who got caught cheating but still finished the final 22 games of his HC career at 5-17 (taking over a team that was disappointing at 8-8 after being projected to win the AFC West), the guy who would take every bad situation and exacerbate it to the nth degree, the guy who chased out an admittedly kooky Jay Cutler but was forced to take Kyle Orton instead, who traded Peyton Hillis and a draft pick to Cleveland (where he put up over 1,000 yards) for a QB who appeared on the active roster one time because he, ahem, supposedly "hit on his wife," who chased out Brandon Marshall, who drafted Knowshon Moreno with #12, who had Earl Thomas sitting at his pick (couldn't miss prospect) but traded the pick for Alphonso Smith (who he traded for Dan Gronkowski), who picked Tim Tebow in the first round, who gave three and a half mil guaranteed to a guy who failed to make the roster out of training camp, who chased out every affordable veteran already under contract to try and pick up expensive New England free agents--even at LONG SNAPPER--who became so hated among Denver players for his erratic behavior and score-settling that the entire city revolted against him at one point, who had Mike Nolan literally just QUIT on him and say that McDaniels is so unprofessional that he was impossible to work with, and who then went to St. Louis, who needed a press conference to assure furious fans that he would have no input into personnel decisions, and put up the 11th worst offense in NFL history at 12.1 points per game?

Sure, what could possibly go wrong?  We'd be lucky to have him.  That's why he didn't get hired in 2016.  So many teams were fighting over Josh that they all had to agree not to hire him and wait until 2017.

I think I understand why wizard1 wants him so much now. Under McDaniels he would be able to complain and criticize the Ravens much more than he already does and even better; we would all agree with him. Makes perfect sense from his perspective.

[usmccharles]

2 minutes ago, wizard1 said:

Cool that we can agree on something ! So does that mean I don't know what I'm talking about either ? HaHa

Haha who knows.  Pretty sure I'm just going to drink straight vodka for our remaining games so I can forget what I see 

[wizard1]

1 minute ago, 52520Andrew said:

I think I understand why wizard1 wants him so much now. Under McDaniels he would be able to complain and criticize the Ravens much more than he already does and even better; we would all agree with him. Makes perfect sense from his perspective.

Yes it is all part of a bigger picture. I see you are starting to grasp the concept. Well Done!

[wizard1]

12 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Haha who knows.  Pretty sure I'm just going to drink straight vodka for our remaining games so I can forget what I see 

The trauma will be burned in your memory for years to come. We all may end up needing therapy before this is over.

Wonder if I can bill Biscotti?

Don't bogart that bottle buddy !

Absolute please!

Edited October 24, 2016 by wizard1
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