Is Harbaugh on the Hot Seat Yet

[52liveforever]

15 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Yes,,Best thing to do is fire Dean Pees and give harbaugh new set of coordinators.

This is sarcasm right? Pees is the only one doing anything right.

[GrimCoconut]

Just now, 52liveforever said:

This is sarcasm right? Pees is the only one doing anything right.

No. Pees is calling the offense so we're playing prevent offense now. Didn't you know that?

[allblackraven]

1 minute ago, The Raven said:

Not only that, but the bigger issue is the severe reduction in contact practices at the high school and college level. 

Linemen truly need those contact practices to refine their craft, and the loss of those is killing the Future Trench Workers of America.

They seem to get lot more injured as well because they are not used to contact.

[The Raven]

Just now, allblackraven said:

They seem to get lot more injured as well because they are not used to contact.

Poor technique is one of the biggest injury causes in football. 

[kjbmore]

Think we need to just clean out the dead wood player wise and pretty much just play our draft picks from here on out win or lose

Commit to getting younger and healthier - no more Hester's, Watson's,We're not a punt returner or a 35yr old tight end away from a super bowl- we can't even make the playoffs

let Ozzie and Harbs oversee a rebuild - maintain stability - get rid of Pees and hire a legit coordinator or if Marty shows something - let's run with it

time to clean house and rebuild

if we see progress then keep Harbs, he just hasnt got the troops at the moment, he and Ozzie have to accept some responsibility for the fact a lot of our salary is tied up in guys who aren't on the field

Ozzie needs to adapt to the new NFL- we need legit #1 receivers we need a juiced up secondary to slow down the AJ greens and obj not picking up the scraps and expecting different results - seriously we hear the same gash every preseason- oh this guy is around the ball, this guy is such a ball hawk, this guy has sooo many interceptions - Wright, Arrington, Lewis, Webb, Powers not going to cut it.

I'd like to see if Harbs can develop a team as opposed to coach one he inherited

 

[Ravensfan23]

I understand all the Harbs backlash and believe me i'm not here to back anyone off those feelings. However I don't think he's on the hot seat. It'd make sense if he is, but I think the heat will come from the fans more than the organization. I think the Ravens mainly Mr. B will look at Cincy and the Steelers as examples of how staying loyal to a good coach can pay off in the end. I don't think anyone can argue that Harbs is a good coach, it's just that losing makes everyone look worse than they are. There were times that both Lewis and Tomlin were being held to the fire by fans/media and while I'm sure the Owners had some private discussions with some of their most trusted advisers, they stayed true to the structures they have in place.  

Both those teams improved by developing their oline talent and that lead to their offenses improving. The Steelers basically just found the right combo and allowed them to work their issues while the Bengals drafted their oline. Then they built their teams from there. Talent at WR, RB, and so forth. 

I think the Ravens will stay true to Harbs. The hope is that this 4 game skid is the worse and the young talent on the oline can get healthy during the bye. There are still many other areas of concern, but i think if you fix the oline things will look a lot better and Harbs will be safe

[RedFire]

45 minutes ago, Purple_ICE 81 said:

If we don't turn this season around and make the playoffs I'd think Steve and Ozzie would at very least have all eyes on Harbaugh if not fullblown fire him. Harbs has been more of a spiritual leader and special teams guide, and relies on his assistants and position coaches to get it done on Sundays, but for whatever reason, even through quite a few questionable calls throughout his career (a couple this season), he has been a great leader and has made it a a fun nearly 10 year run chocked full of fun playoff runs and a superbowl win, although the last 3/5  seasons have been a little underwhelming and have made us spoiled Ravens fans a little aggravated.

This would mark 3 straight subpar seasons so I think it might be time to make some changes, although I'd rather see a new offensive system installed than a full on Harbaugh firing. Realistically the Baltimore Ravens offense has never excelled at anything aside from being a balanced run heavy attack, but obviously alot of success including  2 superbowls have come along with those typically so-so offenses so only a spoiled fan would truly complain. It would be nice to put a good chunk of emphasis on looking our offense at its core and look to install the best possible system for our success rather than keep this same vanilla system.  

 

There is blame to be placed all over this team, from a historically bad bout with injuries, to drafting/off season signings, lack of talent, coaching and downright execution out there on game day. Despite a hot star to the season we are pretty awful in a lot of different places this year.  The only area that gets more neglect than our offense is our secondary which doesnt have a hope in the world without Jimmy Smith. 

 

Our offense is what needs the most TLC, so if I was Steve I would step in and instead of firing Harbaugh find a new OC who can do more with what we've got on offense. I've never been a fan or Marty Mornenwhig, and I'm tired of paying $120M just so we can be run heavy year after year. Flacco ain't great but we should be able to get more production out of him than this. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

what was subpar about 2014? that was a superbowl caliber team. pats cheated us!

[wizard1]

7 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I understand all the Harbs backlash and believe me i'm not here to back anyone off those feelings. However I don't think he's on the hot seat. It'd make sense if he is, but I think the heat will come from the fans more than the organization. I think the Ravens mainly Mr. B will look at Cincy and the Steelers as examples of how staying loyal to a good coach can pay off in the end. I don't think anyone can argue that Harbs is a good coach, it's just that losing makes everyone look worse than they are. There were times that both Lewis and Tomlin were being held to the fire by fans/media and while I'm sure the Owners had some private discussions with some of their most trusted advisers, they stayed true to the structures they have in place.  

Both those teams improved by developing their oline talent and that lead to their offenses improving. The Steelers basically just found the right combo and allowed them to work their issues while the Bengals drafted their oline. Then they built their teams from there. Talent at WR, RB, and so forth. 

I think the Ravens will stay true to Harbs. The hope is that this 4 game skid is the worse and the young talent on the oline can get healthy during the bye. There are still many other areas of concern, but i think if you fix the oline things will look a lot better and Harbs will be safe

Stay true to Harbaugh? You act like this is some personal commitment. This is a business pure and simple. Harbaugh may have been a good coach in the past but not anymore. His style ( along with Ozzie ) does not fit in today's NFL. I promise you with all of my vision of the future John Harbaugh will not be the Head Coach of the Baltimore Ravens in 2017. It's a business not personal.!

[Ravensfan23]

7 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Think we need to just clean out the dead wood player wise and pretty much just play our draft picks from here on out win or lose

Commit to getting younger and healthier - no more Hester's, Watson's,We're not a punt returner or a 35yr old tight end away from a super bowl- we can't even make the playoffs

let Ozzie and Harbs oversee a rebuild - maintain stability - get rid of Pees and hire a legit coordinator or if Marty shows something - let's run with it

time to clean house and rebuild

if we see progress then keep Harbs, he just hasnt got the troops at the moment, he and Ozzie have to accept some responsibility for the fact a lot of our salary is tied up in guys who aren't on the field

Ozzie needs to adapt to the new NFL- we need legit #1 receivers we need a juiced up secondary to slow down the AJ greens and obj not picking up the scraps and expecting different results - seriously we hear the same gash every preseason- oh this guy is around the ball, this guy is such a ball hawk, this guy has sooo many interceptions - Wright, Arrington, Lewis, Webb, Powers not going to cut it.

I'd like to see if Harbs can develop a team as opposed to coach one he inherited

 

I agree. I think the Ravens dropped the ball on the rebuilding aspect of this team. We've approached things as if we are one player away since the SB but that wasn't the case. I think the last two years in the draft have been good building drafts, but injuries have derailed things. I'd like to see the young talent on this team developed as well. I'd rather see Davis, Young and Price hold down the secondary opposite Jimmy. Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are gone, we can no longer just sign average guys and hope they can raise the level of play for this defense. 

It has to be the young talent that carries this team and the coaches have to do a much better job of developing that talent.  

[wizard1]

2 hours ago, jimmypowder said:

Harbaugh is a losing season away from getting fired . 

So I expect him gone after this year . 

You are right! Har-Ball is done in Baltimore.

[ALPHA]

The problem with coaching is that when teams start losing or playing poorly players lose faith in the coach and each other, of course it doesn't help that we've had a major decline in talent but thats not all on Harbaugh. I still think he deserves a few years to try and turn things around.

[jazz1988]

3 minutes ago, wizard1 said:

Stay true to Harbaugh? You act like this is some personal commitment. This is a business pure and simple. Harbaugh may have been a good coach in the past but not anymore. His style ( along with Ozzie ) does not fit in today's NFL. I promise you with all of my vision of the future John Harbaugh will not be the Head Coach of the Baltimore Ravens in 2017. It's a business not personal.!

 

Harbaugh style is really no different from Pete Carroll and Ron Riveria. His style is not outdated at all and it hasn't been long at all since The Ravens been in the playoff.

[wizard1]

1 hour ago, K-Dog said:

It is funny.
People here talk about cleaning house.  Harbs, Ozzie, Pees, and Marty on down the line.
That would be completely insane.  It would take so many years to rebuild after such a shake up. ( see Browns )
The best H.C.'s, GM's, OC's and DC's are not going to come flocking to Baltimore to get in line for an interview.  Many of the best are under long term contracts and sometimes love the organisations they work for.  It is not like Biscotti is going to stroke a half a dozen checks and and we will have a world class staff.  It just doesn't happen that way.  That is not the real world. 

Man it happens all the time. In fact it's happening right now in politics. There is no difference here. Harbaugh is done in Baltimore - just open your mind to the new and exciting possibilities if we can get Kyle Shanahan or Josh McDaniels  in here. A new and fresh start. Hit the reset button. Reboot the system. Change is good!

[Dfence4champs2052]

Whether you think he should go or not, the fact remains nearly every Ravens record we have held dear to us from our defensive statistics, record coming out of bye weeks, record at home, things that we just considered sacrosanct have all been destroyed under Harbaugh. Not to say he is responsible individually but as the HC he is ultimately responsible for those milestones and they have all been destroyed. Every season we are destroying a franchise record or milestone. His tenure brought us a SB which was great but at what cost for our long-term ability to win. I think a regime change is in order both he and Ozzie. Hate to say it but the reality is upon us.

[ALPHA]

2 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

 

Harbaugh style is really no different from Pete Carroll and Ron Riveria. His style is not outdated at all and it hasn't been long at all since The Ravens been in the playoff.

I somewhat agree with this, he's coaching with urgency this season but there are areas he needs to improve on. If we were to clean house I'm sure the players and fans would be brimming with optimism but that fake, quick burning optimism often makes way for reality like it does in Cleveland every year or 2nd year.

[ALPHA]

4 minutes ago, Dfence4champs2052 said:

Whether you think he should go or not, the fact remains nearly every Ravens record we have held dear to us from our defensive statistics, record coming out of bye weeks, record at home, things that we just considered sacrosanct have all been destroyed under Harbaugh. Not to say he is responsible individually but as the HC he is ultimately responsible for those milestones and they have all been destroyed. Every season we are destroying a franchise record or milestone. His tenure brought us a SB which was great but at what cost for our long-term ability to win. I think a regime change is in order both he and Ozzie. Hate to say it but the reality is upon us.

This is a valid argument, but it's a kneejerk one too and the grass isn't always greener on the other side. I would only want Harbaugh gone if the players have lost faith in him. My only real issue with Harbaugh is he is too loyal to players that work hard but lack talent.

[Ravensfan23]

1 minute ago, wizard1 said:

Stay true to Harbaugh? You act like this is some personal commitment. This is a business pure and simple. Harbaugh may have been a good coach in the past but not anymore. His style ( along with Ozzie ) does not fit in today's NFL. I promise you with all of my vision of the future John Harbaugh will not be the Head Coach of the Baltimore Ravens in 2017. It's a business not personal.!

Yes we are talking business and as a man who has studied Mr. Bisciotti's business practices, he stays loyal to the guys he put in place to correct the ship as opposed to cut bait and start over like many fans would like to see. Mr. Bisciotti is the type that demands success but he seems to be the type that views the overall picture and not just the last quarter of business to make his overall decision. 

I'm not here to defend Harbs, as much of a fan as i am, I'm not happy. But if we are looking at the full picture and not just the record of 2015 and 2016, the Ravens aren't getting run off the field each week, they aren't a team that lacks fight, they aren't a team that rolls over and with some many games decided by 8 points or less it means that the Ravens are truly one or two plays away from winning each game. 

So when you look at the business aspect of things you have to make a decision between assets vs liabilities. Can Harbs be directly linked to the amount of injuries this teams has had over the past 2 years? It's no evidence of it. But have injuries cost this team more games than poor coaching decisions? I'd say yes. 6 of the 7 inactives the last 2 weeks were starters for this team. If the Ravens are playing this way at full strength then you must look at the coach. But the last time this team was healthy it held 2 14 point leads in the playoffs vs the Pats and was 1 play away from going to the AFC Championship game. That has to be considered. 

So yes, it's business and not personal, so that mean the decision to keep or fire Harbs will be made on logic and not emotion, which most of us fans use to make decisions. 

[DenverRaven]

15 minutes ago, wizard1 said:

Man it happens all the time. In fact it's happening right now in politics. There is no difference here. Harbaugh is done in Baltimore - just open your mind to the new and exciting possibilities if we can get Kyle Shanahan or Josh McDaniels  in here. A new and fresh start. Hit the reset button. Reboot the system. Change is good!

No thanks.

[jazz1988]

7 minutes ago, Dfence4champs2052 said:

Whether you think he should go or not, the fact remains nearly every Ravens record we have held dear to us from our defensive statistics, record coming out of bye weeks, record at home, things that we just considered sacrosanct have all been destroyed under Harbaugh. Not to say he is responsible individually but as the HC he is ultimately responsible for those milestones and they have all been destroyed. Every season we are destroying a franchise record or milestone. His tenure brought us a SB which was great but at what cost for our long-term ability to win. I think a regime change is in order both he and Ozzie. Hate to say it but the reality is upon us.

Those defensive statistics were beyound to change after losing key star players  to retirement and going young. I'm sorry but you can't expect young guys to hold dear to those statistics as much as Ray Lewis and Ed Reed did.  Saying The Ravens need regime change is a tall order John Harbaugh record is 80-51 with 10-5 playoff record along with being the only head coach to win a playoff game in his first five season.  Harbaugh been the most successful head coach The Ravens have ever had  so far  and Ozzie Newsome has had his flaws but he still one of the best general managers in the league so if a new regime is inorder then who ever the next guy will be should definitely be someone big and not just somebody.

[atomicfront]

1 hour ago, K-Dog said:

It is funny.
People here talk about cleaning house.  Harbs, Ozzie, Pees, and Marty on down the line.
That would be completely insane.  It would take so many years to rebuild after such a shake up. ( see Browns )
The best H.C.'s, GM's, OC's and DC's are not going to come flocking to Baltimore to get in line for an interview.  Many of the best are under long term contracts and sometimes love the organisations they work for.  It is not like Biscotti is going to stroke a half a dozen checks and and we will have a world class staff.  It just doesn't happen that way.  That is not the real world. 

 

Broncos fired John Fox after he went 13-3, 13-3 and 12-4.  If the Ravens go 5-11 Harbaugh is gone.  You can't fill the stands with a team that is losing all the time.

[BmoreCOfan52]

Got ripped to pieces by the "experts" for pointing out the stupidity of the Watson and Hester signing. Where those experts at now?

Time for a new era of Ravens after this season goes down as another disaster. I don't have any idea who is responsible for these huge contracts that never live up and too many years to count of poor drafts. I don't care if its Ozzie, Eric, Harbs, or all of the above but in the real world when you perform this poor at work you are gone. 

I always loved watching the Ravens win or lose even when our Offense was horrible because our team still had heart with our fired up D. Joe's a family man, Super bowl mvp, and one of the highest paid players in the NFL so he doesn't lose any sleep if we win or lose along with all of the other dead weight we signed to huge contracts. I would rather watch us lose with Mallet scrambling around our horrible o line fighting like he did last year. Compared to seeing an injured Flacco come in and do what he did today... I think this is the last year Steve puts up with this suspect good ole boy fire Trestman and blame him for everything club we have running things

 

[allblackraven]

13 minutes ago, DenverRaven said:

No thanks.

Aaaaargh, stop quoting him. Who ever wants McDaniels is insane. 

[jazz1988]

22 minutes ago, atomicfront said:

 

Broncos fired John Fox after he went 13-3, 13-3 and 12-4.  If the Ravens go 5-11 Harbaugh is gone.  You can't fill the stands with a team that is losing all the time.

The Broncos fired John Fox because their general manager spent soo much money on free agent signing and expected super bowl or bust . He knew Peyton Manning windows was closing as well and after spending so much money he couldn't accept anything less than a superbowl. The Bengels on the other hand have never won a playoff game with Marvin Lewis to my understanding or even come close to the  playoff success John Harbaugh has had but yet  he's still their  head coach and been a head coach longer than John Harbaugh.

Edited October 24, 2016 by jazz1988

[BmoreCOfan52]

If what they say about Eric Decosta is true and we have been paying him GM money all of this time to stay on board hand over the reins and make Ozzie retire. I would say let him make the decision regarding Harbs and see if this fixes some of these stupid contract and bad draft decisions. If not in a few more years we can clean house completely when the time is right. In the meantime something has to be done and poop always rolls down hill with this organization so I suspect they fire Harbs before Ozzie retires. I would like to see Harbs under a different GM assuming that GM (Eric) thinks he is the right man

[BmoreBird22]

29 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Aaaaargh, stop quoting him. Who ever wants McDaniels is insane. 

Why's that?

[52liveforever]

12 minutes ago, BmoreCOfan52 said:

If what they say about Eric Decosta is true and we have been paying him GM money all of this time to stay on board hand over the reins and make Ozzie retire. I would say let him make the decision regarding Harbs and see if this fixes some of these stupid contract and bad draft decisions. If not in a few more years we can clean house completely when the time is right. In the meantime something has to be done and poop always rolls down hill with this organization so I suspect they fire Harbs before Ozzie retires. I would like to see Harbs under a different GM assuming that GM (Eric) thinks he is the right man

I don't know that this team is built to be coached by Harbs anymore. Harbs was the perfect guy to bring in when ray was here because they are both inspirational guys. We either need another Ray or we need a no nonsense football coach. 

[kennethyamini1989]

1 hour ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I understand all the Harbs backlash and believe me i'm not here to back anyone off those feelings. However I don't think he's on the hot seat. It'd make sense if he is, but I think the heat will come from the fans more than the organization. I think the Ravens mainly Mr. B will look at Cincy and the Steelers as examples of how staying loyal to a good coach can pay off in the end. I don't think anyone can argue that Harbs is a good coach, it's just that losing makes everyone look worse than they are. There were times that both Lewis and Tomlin were being held to the fire by fans/media and while I'm sure the Owners had some private discussions with some of their most trusted advisers, they stayed true to the structures they have in place.  

Both those teams improved by developing their oline talent and that lead to their offenses improving. The Steelers basically just found the right combo and allowed them to work their issues while the Bengals drafted their oline. Then they built their teams from there. Talent at WR, RB, and so forth. 

I think the Ravens will stay true to Harbs. The hope is that this 4 game skid is the worse and the young talent on the oline can get healthy during the bye. There are still many other areas of concern, but i think if you fix the oline things will look a lot better and Harbs will be safe

Lewis should have been fired....if it were any other coach besides him..he would have been...

[52liveforever]

30 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Aaaaargh, stop quoting him. Who ever wants McDaniels is insane. 

 

If we were to move on I wouldn't mind giving McDaniels a shot. He was young when he was in Denver. I think he probably learned a lot since then. Plus with Ozzies ties to Yoda it would definitely make sense. 

 

Im not ready to move on yet though. I want to see if harbs can turn this ship around. 

[kennethyamini1989]

Just now, 52liveforever said:

 

If we were to move on I wouldn't mind giving McDaniels a shot. He was young when he was in Denver. I think he probably learned a lot since then. Plus with Ozzies ties to Yoda it would definitely make sense. 

 

Im not ready to move on yet though. I want to see if harbs can turn this ship around. 

Turn it around? Hes gotta throw some old water out to get the ship to stop sinking first. 

[52liveforever]

7 minutes ago, kennethyamini1989 said:

Turn it around? Hes gotta throw some old water out to get the ship to stop sinking first. 

Who's the old water?