Is Harbaugh on the Hot Seat Yet

[thisme007]

Harbaugh is killing this team..

[usmccharles]

26 minutes ago, thisme007 said:

Harbaugh is killing this team..

Such a well thought out insight, glad you can enlighten us all

[Baltimore RAYvens]

I'll say what I said last year. Don't get me wrong, Harbaugh is a damn good coach and he'll probably have success where ever he winds up at next.

The difference between a good coach and a great coach is the ability to change the message and keep your team motivated. We always hear about his different mantras throughout the season, but I think the message is getting dull over the years and isn't translating with the vets on the team. As much as I hate the Patriots and The hoodie, he's a great coach who has always managed to motivate his players at all levels despite his longevity.

If you look at the draft history since he got here, we've drafted 5 pro bowlers, 2 of which didn't make it as a Raven, and 2 more in Flacco and Rice drafted the first year he got here.(Another fun fact, since the team came to Baltimore, we had 21 first round picks, 14 of which were selected before 2008. Of those 14, 10 made it to the pro bowl, since Harbaugh arrived out of the 7 picks we've had only 2 make it to the pro bowl, Flacco and Mosely) We all try and give him slack for lacking playmakers, but I have to wonder how much he is involved in the draft and how much of that is also his fault. 

 

He won the super bowl 4 years after joining the team with a roster of talent which was built mostly before he got here. Since then the roster has been overhauled and he's had his guys in here we're 26-28. As much as he's done for the team I think it's time to move in another direction.

 

[Glen1024]

For all you harbaugh guys...a few seconds to go in the game, you wr just dropped a td pass to send the team to the superbowl,  you need a fg to tie the game and the clock is winding down...your special teams for some reason in this critical situation is not ready to go immediately so they begin rushing on the field as the play clock winds down....does our coach do the wise thing and burn a timeout???? No need to go any further as you get the point, this coach has been making boneheaded decisions for years now....superbowl we almost blow a 3 td lead in the 2nd half yet pees remains....who hired tressman knowing he has a different philosophy than the guy who lead the team to it best offensive production in team history only to fire him a year later....up until 2012 ozzie is a genius after 2012 he can barely draft starters let alone star players.....harbaugh is not worth it and mediocrity will continue to be the results as long as he's here.....last thing why is ed reed coaching in buffalo using his brilliant football mind in their db meetings instead of ours....you and I know why

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

On one of the plays that Odell scored the TD on Young, Weddle did collide with Young but looking at the play closely, Odell looked like he had pretty good position on Young. I give more blame to Weddle on that play because he should have been more aware of his field position. It appears he was covering the flats, but did not see Young trying to cover Beckham on a slant, last thing you want to due when getting near a teammate is getting to close to him on a slant, especially if you're a safety, it's one of the worst things you can do. Webb had awful position as well on Beckham and had a very slow change of pace there. Two players got tangled up but I think its much more than that. Beckham also did have some big plays, one for 40+  on Wright, another big TD on Will Davis and without the two long TDs that's 76 yards I believe. Even if we relieved OBJ of that 76 Yard TD, that's still 144 on the day. One thing I noticed about Jimmys absence if how confused the CBs looked. They looked like they did not know coverage assignments or who was going to cover who. They just looked all over the place and sloppy. I think Jimmy has more to do with communication than we anticipated. 

I do believe that OBJ still catches that pass and gets good YAC against Young, but the free run for like 30 yards I think is what led to the touchdown. With Young, I think we're talking maybe a 20 yard completion. 

But I'm not sure it's Jimmy communicating so much as he's left on an island (or they put Webb over top of him) and Weddle helps out the less experienced side and is able to more effectively help the young guns because Jimmy just knows what he's doing.

[usmccharles]

25 minutes ago, Glen1024 said:

For all you harbaugh guys...a few seconds to go in the game, you wr just dropped a td pass to send the team to the superbowl,  you need a fg to tie the game and the clock is winding down...your special teams for some reason in this critical situation is not ready to go immediately so they begin rushing on the field as the play clock winds down....does our coach do the wise thing and burn a timeout???? No need to go any further as you get the point, this coach has been making boneheaded decisions for years now....superbowl we almost blow a 3 td lead in the 2nd half yet pees remains....who hired tressman knowing he has a different philosophy than the guy who lead the team to it best offensive production in team history only to fire him a year later....up until 2012 ozzie is a genius after 2012 he can barely draft starters let alone star players.....harbaugh is not worth it and mediocrity will continue to be the results as long as he's here.....last thing why is ed reed coaching in buffalo using his brilliant football mind in their db meetings instead of ours....you and I know why

I never understand how people say Lee Evans dropped that pass, it was a great play by the CB to knock it out of his hands, plain and simple.  FG miss, it happens, its sad but true, just ask Blaire Walsh. 

We hired Trestman, it didn't work, we fired him.  Your point?  Ill even agree with you about drafting hasn't been as good as previous years

So what if we were never up by all those scores and it was a back and forth game in the SB, would you be in here saying, im glad we paced our scoring of the entire game instead of blowing them out in the first 35 minutes of the game.  You forget there is another team trying to score? There is a reason why a lot of teams make comebacks late in games in gargbage time. 

I find hit hilarious when fans get buthurt about Ed Reed being in Buffalo as a assistant position coach.  Lets play it out, say we hire him and he has no idea what hes doing, he is simply hanging around just to chill with the guys, we have no clue what kind of coach he would/will be.  Why not let him learn the ropes somewhere else and have a chance to bring him in later.  Just imagine the uproar if we had to fire Ed Reed,  most fans are blinded by the past.  Might as well bring Ray in for LB position, while we are at it, bring in JO to help with the line play, and JJ to help with returns. 

I get it, your not a harbaugh fan, but using Ed Reed being an assistant position coach somewhere else to drive your point across is as about as relevant as a nerfgun in tactical warfare.  Oh, and paragraphs, they can be your friend.   

 

 

[Moderator 3]

48 minutes ago, Glen1024 said:

For all you harbaugh guys...a few seconds to go in the game, you wr just dropped a td pass to send the team to the superbowl,  you need a fg to tie the game and the clock is winding down...your special teams for some reason in this critical situation is not ready to go immediately so they begin rushing on the field as the play clock winds down....does our coach do the wise thing and burn a timeout???? No need to go any further as you get the point, this coach has been making boneheaded decisions for years now....superbowl we almost blow a 3 td lead in the 2nd half yet pees remains....who hired tressman knowing he has a different philosophy than the guy who lead the team to it best offensive production in team history only to fire him a year later....up until 2012 ozzie is a genius after 2012 he can barely draft starters let alone star players.....harbaugh is not worth it and mediocrity will continue to be the results as long as he's here.....last thing why is ed reed coaching in buffalo using his brilliant football mind in their db meetings instead of ours....you and I know why

Isn't there a statute of limitations on mistakes?  Have you ever made one we can drag up YEARS later?  Geez.

[usmccharles]

7 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

Isn't there a statute of limitations on mistakes?  Have you ever made one we can drag up YEARS later?  Geez.

What mistakes though? He doesn't point anything out really.  I guess any game ever we were behind in we need to bring up.  He has 1 post...already shown what kind of logic he uses, should be fun.

[CorvusMagnus]

A head coach has three basic jobs: create the culture of the team by motivating/disciplining player, selecting top coaching staff (OC, DC, STC, etc.) and top level game management (timeouts, challenges, etc.).

Yes there are head coaches who are also their own OC/DCs (ex. Payton, Ryan), but the vast majority follow this model. Note I do not include personnel selection through the draft, because on most teams the head coach is just one vote among many, and generally not even the biggest one.

That said, I challenge you to find another coach in the league who crafts and preserves team culture better then John Harbaugh. Whatever the talent level of his teams they play their asses off no matter how far in the hole they are and that is by no means a given even in the NFL (see Browns, Jaguars and other bottom feeders).

Can you question his performance in the other two areas? Maybe, but pop over to any team with a "top 10" coach and you'll see them bitching just as hard as we are (over at the Steeler's forums they have this same discussion after practically every loss despite being a perennial play off team just like us).

The chances of randomly promoting a college coach, OC or DC and expecting John Harbaugh or better is laughably small. The new ones are a crap shoot (HC is NOTHING like OC and DC) and the old ones usually have at least one issue or they would still be HCs. Firing an HC is something a club goes to great lengths to avoid because it can trash your franchise just as fast as a bad QB pick. Plus, do it too many times (like the Redskins) and the best candidates wont even apply.

We just drafted high for the first time in nearly a decade and by all accounts did a spectacular at it, if it happens again at the end of this year it'll suck but I expect a similar influx of talent. 2018 is the earliest I expect a serious conversation about replacing Harbaugh given the team's current trajectory.

[Glen1024]

What mistakes though? He doesn't point anything out really.  I guess any game ever we were behind in we need to bring up.  He has 1 post...already shown what kind of logic he uses, should be fun.

 

What mistakes??? I pointed out the bonehead decision not to call a timeout....I pointed out blown leads go wayyy back during this regime, plenty more to list but the one in the superbowl is given a pass because we won....I pointed out that one of the greatest db's in history and my favorite raven player ever is using his mental ablities for another team and was never even offered a position on the coaching staff, yet how many big plays have been given up these last few years???? You say I pointed out nothing but it was you with no rebuttal....coaching is the ravens biggest problem and it has been for a number of years....who replaced rex ryan with greg mattison???? Who replaced kubiak with tressman??? Why can't we draft and develop pro bowlers anymore??? Where are all the alphas you know the outspoken leaders??? Coach doesn't want them types does he????

[flynismo]

Is your ? button stuck or something?

[K-Dog]

No feed....

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

3 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I never understand how people say Lee Evans dropped that pass, it was a great play by the CB to knock it out of his hands, plain and simple.  FG miss, it happens, its sad but true, just ask Blaire Walsh. 

We hired Trestman, it didn't work, we fired him.  Your point?  Ill even agree with you about drafting hasn't been as good as previous years

So what if we were never up by all those scores and it was a back and forth game in the SB, would you be in here saying, im glad we paced our scoring of the entire game instead of blowing them out in the first 35 minutes of the game.  You forget there is another team trying to score? There is a reason why a lot of teams make comebacks late in games in gargbage time. 

I find hit hilarious when fans get buthurt about Ed Reed being in Buffalo as a assistant position coach.  Lets play it out, say we hire him and he has no idea what hes doing, he is simply hanging around just to chill with the guys, we have no clue what kind of coach he would/will be.  Why not let him learn the ropes somewhere else and have a chance to bring him in later.  Just imagine the uproar if we had to fire Ed Reed,  most fans are blinded by the past.  Might as well bring Ray in for LB position, while we are at it, bring in JO to help with the line play, and JJ to help with returns. 

I get it, your not a harbaugh fan, but using Ed Reed being an assistant position coach somewhere else to drive your point across is as about as relevant as a nerfgun in tactical warfare.  Oh, and paragraphs, they can be your friend.   

 

 

I bet Ed Reed studies more film than any player or coach on this team, and actually knows what bracketed coverage is, and when it should be used on players that can beat you, like AJ Green, O BJ, and others. 

When was the last time a Pees defense beat the Bungles? Why is that? 

I will tell you when, it was when #20 was in our backfield. 

 

[usmccharles]

4 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I never understand how people say Lee Evans dropped that pass, it was a great play by the CB to knock it out of his hands, plain and simple.  FG miss, it happens, its sad but true, just ask Blaire Walsh. 

We hired Trestman, it didn't work, we fired him.  Your point?  Ill even agree with you about drafting hasn't been as good as previous years

So what if we were never up by all those scores and it was a back and forth game in the SB, would you be in here saying, im glad we paced our scoring of the entire game instead of blowing them out in the first 35 minutes of the game.  You forget there is another team trying to score? There is a reason why a lot of teams make comebacks late in games in gargbage time. 

I find hit hilarious when fans get buthurt about Ed Reed being in Buffalo as a assistant position coach.  Lets play it out, say we hire him and he has no idea what hes doing, he is simply hanging around just to chill with the guys, we have no clue what kind of coach he would/will be.  Why not let him learn the ropes somewhere else and have a chance to bring him in later.  Just imagine the uproar if we had to fire Ed Reed,  most fans are blinded by the past.  Might as well bring Ray in for LB position, while we are at it, bring in JO to help with the line play, and JJ to help with returns. 

I get it, your not a harbaugh fan, but using Ed Reed being an assistant position coach somewhere else to drive your point across is as about as relevant as a nerfgun in tactical warfare.  Oh, and paragraphs, they can be your friend.   

 

3 hours ago, Glen1024 said:

What mistakes??? I pointed out the bonehead decision not to call a timeout....I pointed out blown leads go wayyy back during this regime, plenty more to list but the one in the superbowl is given a pass because we won....I pointed out that one of the greatest db's in history and my favorite raven player ever is using his mental ablities for another team and was never even offered a position on the coaching staff, yet how many big plays have been given up these last few years???? You say I pointed out nothing but it was you with no rebuttal....coaching is the ravens biggest problem and it has been for a number of years....who replaced rex ryan with greg mattison???? Who replaced kubiak with tressman??? Why can't we draft and develop pro bowlers anymore??? Where are all the alphas you know the outspoken leaders??? Coach doesn't want them types does he????

See above where I replied to all your points,  I can tell you didn't read it because clearly you still have something against paragraphs,  they kick your dog or something? 

It's like you expect zero room for mistakes and will allow no errors.  We have completed 8 full seasons under harbs and have 1 SB,  1 losing season,  missed the playoffs twice,  I wonder if some fans realize how entitled they sound? Of course I want to win the SB every year,  but reality is a cruel female dog,  I'm willing to understand that there is ups and downs and will give it time.   Now injuries were an issue last year and already an issue this year,  but at some point you make due,  if we have another losing season.... And then another with no improvement,  OK: let's talk.  That guy over in NE has made plenty of Mistakes through the years,  he plays in a terrible division,  we play in a division where its common for 3 teams be fight for a playoff spot.  If you want to compare our success based off of someone else's,  considering situations and variables,  your in for a long season.....and a long life my friend.  

11 minutes ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

I bet Ed Reed studies more film than any player or coach on this team, and actually knows what bracketed coverage is, and when it should be used on players that can beat you, like AJ Green, O BJ, and others. 

When was the last time a Pees defense beat the Bungles? Why is that? 

I will tell you when, it was when #20 was in our backfield. 

In no way do I disagree,  I have about 5 autographed memorabilia from Ed,  love the guy.  Every point you made,  I'd prolly agree with, but I don't think you comprehended my point about bringing in Ed here and having to fire him if it didn't work out.  Maybe we offered him a job and he didn't want it?  You really think he wouldnt want to learn the ropes somewhere else then come to Baltimore as a better coach to appease the fans?  He's not dumb,  he knows how high us fans hold him,  imagine the pressure,  and also,  maybe he wanted to Experience a different culture? So many variables can go into this decision.   It's a little fan boyish to Be mad a former raven isn't on our coaching staff.    It's hard to teach instincts,  ask any athlete.   

And yea the Bengals,  i prefer to beat them,  but I don't care if they sweep us every year,  when the playoffs come around,  as the great Chris Hansen would say: Why don't you have a seat over there..... 

[CorvusMagnus]

Ed Reed is in Buffalo because Rex Ryan is in Buffalo. Ed wants to work for Rex, Rex was willing to pick Ed over a more experienced secondary coach. Frankly I think Rex is welcome to it, being a good player is far from a guarantees that someone can coach, he may as well be the one taking the chances.

Throw that in with the fact that Ed and John have historically not gotten on (Ed never forgave John for taking the HC over Rex) and the fact we already have a more then qualified secondary coach this year in Frazier (an elite player and former HC), and I'm not sure why we're even talking about Ed Reed right now.

Our secondary issues are partly a lack of depth beyond Jimmy but mostly a lack of pass rush, plain and simple.

[usmccharles]

7 minutes ago, CorvusMagnus said:

Ed Reed is in Buffalo because Rex Ryan is in Buffalo. Ed wants to work for Rex, Rex was willing to pick Ed over a more experienced secondary coach. Frankly I think Rex is welcome to it, being a good player is far from a guarantees that someone can coach, he may as well be the one taking the chances.

Throw that in with the fact that Ed and John have historically not gotten on (Ed never forgave John for taking the HC over Rex) and the fact we already have a more then qualified secondary coach this year in Frazier (an elite player and former HC), and I'm not sure why we're even talking about Ed Reed right now.

Our secondary issues are partly a lack of depth beyond Jimmy but mostly a lack of pass rush, plain and simple.

Nope.. Can't be.  That makes too much sense. 

[balfan23]

For those who are saying he might be, or should be on the hot seat. We can sit here and mince over this mistake or that mistake over years of coaching ... no point to that. 

Here's the deal, in case you haven't noticed ... coaching hot seats are made based on wins and losses. Period. Up until last year, Harbaugh was racking up wins ... a lot of wins. It is fair to still see last year as aberration ... until it isn't. If it proves to not be ... then we can start talking about hot seats. 

Detractors can argue that he racked up wins with hall of fame talent. Supporters can argue that any downturn has been related to poor personnel decisions and too many injuries. Neither argument matters. Coaches are expected to win. Period. 

Here's another thing to note ... when you've done a lot of winning, that buys some grace points. How valued are those grace points? Well, that depends on the nature of your team's ownership. On this team, with this ownership, those grace points are valued. Whether you think they should be or not, they are. This is not an organization with a person at the top who runs around like the red queen, screaming "off with their heads".

I think that's a good thing. Perhaps you don't. 

So - if this season goes rancid ... which so many now seem to be counting on ... that's going to hurt. Next season will be when, if it appears the team stays on the skids as we go through the early to middle part of the season ... then we can start talking hot seats. As hard as it may be, perhaps we can try to remain positive and believe that, at 3-3, this season is not yet a lost cause. 

[PurpleCity5]

8 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I do believe that OBJ still catches that pass and gets good YAC against Young, but the free run for like 30 yards I think is what led to the touchdown. With Young, I think we're talking maybe a 20 yard completion. 

But I'm not sure it's Jimmy communicating so much as he's left on an island (or they put Webb over top of him) and Weddle helps out the less experienced side and is able to more effectively help the young guns because Jimmy just knows what he's doing.

Yeah I think OBJ makes a play and gets a good YAC but then again, YAC is what OBJ does extremely well. 

Honestly, it just looks like Jimmy aids well in communication. I think Weddle deserves most of the credit but the two other CBs, (Young and Wright) looked lost and out of position after he left the game. That's just how I see it but I might be wrong. 

[PurpleCity5]

@BmoreBird22 On another note, me and you were talking about stocking up on CBs like the Vikings and Bengals and it got me thinking, why not stock up on OLs? Like why not try to build a monster and insane offensive line? I know we need a CB and a Pass Rusher bad, like ASAP but Quenton Nelson looks like a stud. He looks like a sure fire guy and we need impact players on this team bad. I personally think LG could be an underrated need soon. I don't think the team is and should be satisfied with either Jensen or Urschel as the starter next year and it seems like Alex Lewis future is at RT rather than RG, it just seems that way with Rick Wagner unlikely to return. I don't feel good about Center since the FA group isn't that good and we likely won't be taking one top 3, in that instance getting someone at LG of Nelson's caliber would relieve the biggest weakness on the OL(Center). Stanley-Nelson-Draft Pick-Yanda-Lewis sounds like a really good line up. If Stanley can play like a top 10 LT, and Nelson can have a Zack Martin like rookie year, including Lewis's potential breakout with Yanda's greatness, then we should put out one of the best OLs since 2014, even with the weak spot at Center. Of course this is assumed by the idea that there are no CBs or OLBs that we can possibly find out there to our liking. If there is no CB or OLB out there, then Nelson is absolutely my guy. 

I think what Joe needs is an OL, any QB plays better with one. Why not go hard at the offensive line and invest heavily there? Just go full Dallas Cowboys mode and draft OL back to back 1st round. It's worked like a charm for them. Atlanta is a team that invested highly into the OL and it has paid significant dividends for them as well. 

If I'm Harbaugh or Ozzie, I'm looking at the OL and thinking about building a serious monster there. 

It doesn't even stop there...I started getting really crazy lol and thought this...what if...just what if the Bears just decided it wasn't worth paying Alshon 13M a year and let him hit FA and we just decided screw it and signed him. With an OL like the one I listed, a player the caliber of Alshon Jeffery, combined with our speed at WR with Breshad Perriman and Mike Wallace, the emergence Terrence West, and that elite monstrosity of an offensive line? Please! Please! Even the elite of elite defenses would be tossing and turning at night trying to figure out how to stop an offense like that. 

Just a thought honestly. Don't take it seriously lol. 

Edited October 20, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[PurpleHorseman]

22 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Uh, no, no where in there does it say that 100% of the time that going for it is the right call. The author pooled some data and said that he'd suggest going for it, but there isn't a way to say that it is 100% the "right call". Feel free to explain to me how you arrived at that explanation because statistics and data are easily misinterpreted.

Also, the expected points from the 1 yard line is about 5.5, which is likely why he drew that conclusion. However, we SHOULD expect to see a higher EP from the one yard line because you're more likely to score if you've got four chances at the end zone from the one. 

Also, this data can't account for the fact that the Ravens had three prior failed plays from within the two yard line. It also can't take into account personnel or anything like that.

However, let's go back to the graphs for a minute. Let's say the Ravens kick the field goal and go down by 1. Then, Justin Tucker is likely to boot it out of the end zone. Again, the EP from that point is about 0.5, so they're not even likely to score a field goal, which leaves the Ravens down by 1 point still with a punt. 

If we go back to the game stats, the Giants had about 430 yards of total offense, 140 of which came from two fluke plays to OBJ. One was literally caused by two players tripping up on each other. In the second half, the Giants literally had ONE drive (out of like six or seven) that went on for longer than seven plays. Assuming it took three plays to get a first down, the Giants were punting four plays later. Their average yards per drive, taking out the two huge touchdowns, was 30 yards per drive. Assuming a touchback, that puts them at the Ravens 45, well out of field goal range. 

Was it the right call? I do not think so and there is nothing that will convince me otherwise.

And this isn't to say I think Harbaugh is on the hot seat. Marvin Lewis endured how many mediocre seasons in Cinci? He made the playoffs twice in like eight years before Andy Dalton/AJ Green and was the king of the 8-8 season. He was a Jeff Fisher clone. I don't think Harbaugh gets fired unless the Ravens lost 13 straight.

This is one of the most in depth, logical and well thought out posts I read so far here.

[ravensfan2430]

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 4:01 PM, FerrariFan87 said:

Yes, but based on our woeful offensive line situation, flow of the game, and how they looked on the previous 3 attempts, going for it was the wrong decision, and it ultimately cost us the game... horrid defense notwithstanding.

Absolutely. His inability to properly assess in game scenarios and flow is scary.

[Steve0x]

Leave Harbaugh alone. He has won more playoff games than any other Ravens coach. Its Dean Pees who should be on the hot seat. Defense isn't playing very well and they're making mistakes 

[VermontRaven]

6 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Leave Harbaugh alone. He has won more playoff games than any other Ravens coach. Its Dean Pees who should be on the hot seat. Defense isn't playing very well and they're making mistakes 

I know defense hasn't been perfect (especially 2nd half vs Giants) but hard to justify Pes on hot seat with 3rd ranked defense.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2016&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

[PurpleCity5]

22 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Leave Harbaugh alone. He has won more playoff games than any other Ravens coach. Its Dean Pees who should be on the hot seat. Defense isn't playing very well and they're making mistakes 

Outside of that Giants game defense has played very well

[poescrows]

12 minutes ago, VermontRaven said:

I know defense hasn't been perfect (especially 2nd half vs Giants) but hard to justify Pes on hot seat with 3rd ranked defense.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2016&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

IMO, other than OBJ, the second half wasn't bad either. OBJ had 11 yards in the first half (Jimmy in), over 200 in second (Jimmy out)

[poescrows]

On 10/20/2016 at 11:36 AM, PurpleHorseman said:

This is one of the most in depth, logical and well thought out posts I read so far here.

True. But this is a fan forum, and we will have none of that in here! LOL.

[Maryland]

11 hours ago, Steve0x said:

Leave Harbaugh alone. He has won more playoff games than any other Ravens coach. Its Dean Pees who should be on the hot seat. Defense isn't playing very well and they're making mistakes 

Pees could have put extra coverage on OBJ for sure, but the failed defense vs Oakland and Giants seemed like mostly just poor execution. Pees can't make Tavon Young and Weddle not collide into each other en route to a go-ahead TD. 

[Rav'n Maniac]

11 hours ago, Maryland said:

Pees could have put extra coverage on OBJ for sure, but the failed defense vs Oakland and Giants seemed like mostly just poor execution. Pees can't make Tavon Young and Weddle not collide into each other en route to a go-ahead TD. 

Agreed, it does all come down to poor execution and one player being constantly out of position. Webb!!! He was out of position and gave no help over the top on both the Davis and first Young TD's. Where was his tackling on the final OBJ TD. OBJ made him look like a 8 year old playing his first Pop Warner game. I really hope they replace him after this season, the guy is done.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Rav'n Maniac

[Steve0x]

But leave Leave Harbaugh alone.He's the winnest coach the Ravens ever had. I want him to succeed just like Tom Landry did for the Cowboys. 

[kjbmore]

On 20 October 2016 at 4:37 AM, Baltimore RAYvens said:

I'll say what I said last year. Don't get me wrong, Harbaugh is a damn good coach and he'll probably have success where ever he winds up at next.

The difference between a good coach and a great coach is the ability to change the message and keep your team motivated. We always hear about his different mantras throughout the season, but I think the message is getting dull over the years and isn't translating with the vets on the team. As much as I hate the Patriots and The hoodie, he's a great coach who has always managed to motivate his players at all levels despite his longevity.

If you look at the draft history since he got here, we've drafted 5 pro bowlers, 2 of which didn't make it as a Raven, and 2 more in Flacco and Rice drafted the first year he got here.(Another fun fact, since the team came to Baltimore, we had 21 first round picks, 14 of which were selected before 2008. Of those 14, 10 made it to the pro bowl, since Harbaugh arrived out of the 7 picks we've had only 2 make it to the pro bowl, Flacco and Mosely) We all try and give him slack for lacking playmakers, but I have to wonder how much he is involved in the draft and how much of that is also his fault. 

 

He won the super bowl 4 years after joining the team with a roster of talent which was built mostly before he got here. Since then the roster has been overhauled and he's had his guys in here we're 26-28. As much as he's done for the team I think it's time to move in another direction.

 

Totally agree - interested how much input he has into the draft - if he's getting his guys and these are the results - ie no playoffs 3 of 4 years

time for a change