Jensen bandwagon

[Gtown Purple]

I saw lots of people clambering for Ryan Jensen the past couple of weeks. Just wanted to check and see how many people still think he should play in stead of Lewis?

[PurpleCity5]

After last game, no. He's a solid run blocker, that is without a question but pass blocking continues to be a problem for him and he was ripped apart due to lack of pass blocking against Oakland. He was very underwhelming there. I want to keep Lewis at LG, its good for experience plus I think we plan on kicking him to RT after Wagner leaves. 

[Tiznut]

I like him as a backup and with the idea that he develops.  Lord knows we can use some help at center going forward plus.  

[Gtown Purple]

According to PFF Hurst and Jensen gave up 11 sacks\pressures and accounted for 3 penalties. That is simply unacceptable. Losing this game is going to come back and bite us come wild card time. This team is its own worst enemy at times.

[Gtown Purple]

Just now, Tiznut said:

I like him as a backup and with the idea that he develops.  Lord knows we can use some help at center going forward plus.  

I know Zuttah has been much maligned but he actually graded out fairly well in this game.

[ALPHA]

I think the sample size is too small, just like the limited opportunities that made him look like a gem. The oline combinations needs time to gel together and maybe Jensen just needs more time to settle.

[rmcjacket23]

10 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

I think the sample size is too small, just like the limited opportunities that made him look like a gem. The oline combinations needs time to gel together and maybe Jensen just needs more time to settle.

Wouldn't the same be said for Lewis? After all, his sample size is only three games?

Would seem the sample size isn't big enough to make any changes on the Oline right now, which I suspect is precisely how the coaching staff is thinking.

I will also point out that Jensen started 6 games at LG last season, so his sample size is actually bigger than Lewis and has had more time to "gel" so to speak than Lewis has.

Edited October 4, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[JoeyFlex5]

I guess we needed to see it to believe it. My guess is the bandwagon is derailed at this point.

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, Gtown Purple said:

According to PFF Hurst and Jensen gave up 11 sacks\pressures and accounted for 3 penalties. That is simply unacceptable. Losing this game is going to come back and bite us come wild card time. This team is its own worst enemy at times.

While sometimes I would agree with this, Hurst and Jensen were just outmatched.  Sometimes other players are just better than our guys, it showed drastically here.

[Gtown Purple]

3 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

While sometimes I would agree with this, Hurst and Jensen were just outmatched.  Sometimes other players are just better than our guys, it showed drastically here.

That qoute wasn't meant for hurst and jesen alone.

 

We have made a number of mistakes in every game. It just so happens that we made a couple more than normal in this game. Between the penalties, drops, giving oakland short field twice, and bad coach decisions it was bound to bite some time.

[usmccharles]

12 minutes ago, Gtown Purple said:

That qoute wasn't meant for hurst and jesen alone.

 

We have made a number of mistakes in every game. It just so happens that we made a couple more than normal in this game. Between the penalties, drops, giving oakland short field twice, and bad coach decisions it was bound to bite some time.

Yea I hear ya.  I actually agree with the 'accepting the penalty' call, but not the two point conversion.  I think a lot of our flags were attributed to the new guys on the OL, haven't seen any stats though.   Starting slow Is our biggest issue in my opinion. 

All four games combined we are scored as  1Q-12pts, 2Q-29, 3rdQ-16, 4thQ-27. 

[The Raven]

Unquestionably had a poor game in pass protection, but his contributions to the run game were noteworthy.

Still not calling for Jensen to come in -- especially not at center, where Zuttah appears to be getting back into his groove -- but if Lewis continues to struggle, it is still a conversation worth having. Jensen brings a mean streak and quality run blocking that Alex Lewis just doesn't have yet.

Even with Hurst in, our run game was a ton better with Jensen in and Lewis out. I'm not sure it's just a coincidence.

We do still care about running the ball, don't we?

Edited October 4, 2016 by The Raven

[Gtown Purple]

8 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Unquestionably had a poor game in pass protection, but his contributions to the run game were noteworthy.

Still not calling for Jensen to come in -- especially not at center, where Zuttah appears to be getting back into his groove -- but if Lewis continues to struggle, it is still a conversation worth having. Jensen brings a mean streak and quality run blocking that Alex Lewis just doesn't have yet.

Even with Hurst in, our run game was a ton better with Jensen in and Lewis out. I'm not sure it's just a coincidence.

We do still care about running the ball, don't we?

I think you may be giving Jensen more credit than he is due for the running game.

 

1. We ran more to the right than we did the left.

2. West's biggest runs were to the right of center

3. We pass more than we run so pass blocking comes in more often

4. West is better than Forsett

5. Raiders dline is weak

 

I want to see what happens with stanley and lewis when west and dixon play rb.

[The Raven]

11 minutes ago, Gtown Purple said:

I think you may be giving Jensen more credit than he is due for the running game.

 

1. We ran more to the right than we did the left.

2. West's biggest runs were to the right of center

3. We pass more than we run so pass blocking comes in more often

4. West is better than Forsett

5. Raiders dline is weak

 

I want to see what happens with stanley and lewis when west and dixon play rb.

1. Since you apparently aren't aware, zone running requires everyone to hit their assignment to succeed, especially in the tight zone we've been doing.

2. Right, and the left guard being two slots away means his performance is irrelevant to right side runs. Lmao..............

3. This I'll concede

4. Yes, but I think Jensen performed better. I actually try to focus on the oline most plays, and Jensen just did better in the run game than Lewis.

5. Weak, but explosive and athletic. These days, athletic lines are more disruptive. Also, is the Bills line that strong? Not anymore... Also, are you suggesting that Dan Williams isn't good? Justin Ellis isn't a massive man?

Edited October 4, 2016 by The Raven

[Gtown Purple]

1 minute ago, The Raven said:

1. Since you apparently aren't aware, zone running requires everyone to hit their assignment to succeed, especially in the tight zone we've been doing.

2. Right, and the left guard being two slots away means his performance is irrelevant to right side runs. Lmao..............

3. This I'll concede

4. Yes, but I think Jensen performed better. I actually try to focus on the oline most plays, and Jensen just did better in the run game than Lewis.

5. Weak, but explosive and athletic. These days, athletic lines are more disruptive.

Seriously? You think we are running a zone scheme. Do you watch football?

You made my point for me. How can you say Jensen is so much better when they aren't even running behind him?

 

[The Raven]

12 minutes ago, Gtown Purple said:

Seriously? You think we are running a zone scheme. Do you watch football?

You made my point for me. How can you say Jensen is so much better when they aren't even running behind him?

 

I played offensive line in a zone scheme, and I read a press release on this very website in which Yanda himself said we're running tight zone. Check your self before you wreck yourself next time.  Did you even play football?

"We're not running as much, but we are definitely doing more than just the stretch-zone scheme," [Yanda] said. "When Gary was here, we were doing that exclusively. We're definitely trying to switch it up and do a little bit more gap scheme, a little bit more tight zone along with the stretch."

Link: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-rbs-0922-20160921-story.html

Your critical thinking skills are lacking. 1. Hurst is probably the reason why we didn't run left as much. 2. Literally every team ever runs to the right side more. 3. Again, in the zone scheme, everyone's performance matters.

Edited October 4, 2016 by The Raven

[Gtown Purple]

6 minutes ago, The Raven said:

I played offensive line in a zone scheme, and I read a press release on this very website in which Yanda himself said we're running tight zone. John Ogden and Wally Williams were both quoted in the Sun as saying we're still running zone, just not the stretch. Check your self before you wreck yourself next time.  Did you even play football?

Your critical thinking skills are lacking. 1. Hurst is probably the reason why we didn't run left as much. 2. Literally every team ever runs to the right side more. 3. Again, in the zone scheme, everyone's performance matters.

Actually, I did play football. Offensive line and tight end. 

 

Go back to 2014 if you want to see a pure zone scheme. We were running stretch plays left and right. With the rule changes this off season the cut block is no longer allowed meaning the crux of the zone scheme is now nerfed. How many stretch plays have we run? Even if your logic on zone held up your reasoning on Jensen being a better fit just doesn't add up. The penalties and pressure Jensen gave up far outweigh anything he did in the running game.

[The Raven]

Just now, Gtown Purple said:

Actually, I did play football. Offensive line and tight end. 

 

Go back to 2014 if you want to see a pure zone scheme. We were running stretch plays left and right. With the rule changes this off season the cut block is no longer allowed meaning the crux of the zone scheme is now nerfed. How many stretch plays have we run? Even if your logic on zone held up your reasoning on Jensen being a better fit just doesn't add up. The penalties and pressure Jensen gave up far outweigh anything he did in the running game.

Not really. Plenty of zone teams are still doing just fine without the cut blocks. See: Cowboys (2nd ranked rushing team), New England (3rd ranked rushing team), Oakland (5th ranked), Panthers (8th), Texans (11th) and Steelers (13th).

All of those teams use a lot of zone, especially tight zone.

It's not "my logic on zone." It's fact. We're still running a lot of zone, and we primarily ran zone on Sunday, with more outside zone looks than previous weeks.

What you said about pressure and penalties is fair. But I haven't called for him to come in yet, have I? I think we should have a conversation about it, though. A reliable run game stalls a pass rush like nothing else.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Wouldn't the same be said for Lewis? After all, his sample size is only three games?

Would seem the sample size isn't big enough to make any changes on the Oline right now, which I suspect is precisely how the coaching staff is thinking.

I will also point out that Jensen started 6 games at LG last season, so his sample size is actually bigger than Lewis and has had more time to "gel" so to speak than Lewis has.

Good post and honest points.

[OUravensfan]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I guess we needed to see it to believe it. My guess is the bandwagon is derailed at this point.

Yea, his hair reminds me of Kyle Turley a little bit 

Edited October 4, 2016 by OUravensfan

[PurpleCity5]

I'm off the Jensen bandwagon as well. He may give us a boost in run blocking but its not worth what we saw in terms of his inability to pass block. Those hits are just too much for any QB. 

[Cawtious]

19 hours ago, Gtown Purple said:

I think you may be giving Jensen more credit than he is due for the running game.

 

1. We ran more to the right than we did the left.

2. West's biggest runs were to the right of center

3. We pass more than we run so pass blocking comes in more often

4. West is better than Forsett

5. Raiders dline is weak

 

I want to see what happens with stanley and lewis when west and dixon play rb.

Check the downfield block on his longest run.  Who sprung him 15 yrds downfield for additional yardage by cratering #27....yep.

 

[Cawtious]

I'll play!

1.  Still on the wagon

2.  If we are going to associate poor edge skills by Hurst as a modicum to roast Jensen, let's apply the same consideration to Yanda when Wagner got beat.  Where was Yanda?  Oh.....he was taking care of his man....which flows to #3

3.  Jensen was asked to not only deal with the man in front of him, but had to bolster the efforts of Hurst.  Go back and look at the edge rush on Hurst where he was beaten badly by Mack and was headed for Joe's legs.  Who chipped his man, and backtracked 6 yrds to the inside to stop Mack from wiping Joe out?  Yep.

4.  Jensen played how many snaps with the 1's at LG during camp to prep him and get him into the flow?  Granted he played the position last year for 5 games, but was NEVER given the chance to improve at the position during camp.  He was shifted to Center.  They have not let him settle in.  They keep playing musical chairs with him.  It's not helping things.

5. I saw four bad plays from him.  Two penalties (Hold and False Start) not two holds as others have indicated.  He got badly beat to the inside resulting in a QB hurry and Flacco having to dump the pass to the sideline for an incompletion.  He was beat resulting in a hit on Joe.  Attributing all 11 QB hits to "The Left Side of the Line" is hyperbole.  I watched him look over his shoulder and get caught between dealing with his man and helping a completely overmatched LT on most every pass play.  You cannot parlay Hurst's failures as Jensen's failures.  See #2 once again.  If that's how we're gonna do this, then make sure there is sauce enough for both gooses.

6. Look at some of the people Jensen has had to deal with:  Avril, Mack, the Steelers DT's, Cincinnati..... 6-7 games he's started in.  What has Alex dealt with so far as far as comparative talent from edge rushers and pro bowlers?  I'll reserve judgment on him until he lines up with the poorest LT in the league to his left against pro bowl caliber DL's.  Then I'll decide if he's better or worse or comparative in a similar situation.

Jensen needs to be given a consistent look at a specific position.  Would you expect Wagner to play LT and expect a more effective game from him?  You might, but is it realistic?  Why is it realistic to expect a Yeoman performance from Jensen when he's lined up at LG without sufficient reps (in my mind) this season, placing him next to one of the poorest rated LT's in the game, and then blow his butt out of the water when it goes badly?  Bad reach block....yep.....bad.  Bad penalties?  Yep not good.........blaming him for the woes of the LT......not so much.

 

Sorry about the long read.  GO RAVENS!!!

Edited October 5, 2016 by Cawtious
Content correction

[harfordravenfan]

23 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I guess we needed to see it to believe it. My guess is the bandwagon is derailed at this point.

I thought highly of him based off last year and expected more from him knowing this was the last year of his contract I believe.

Saw him as a mauling guard/back up center but seemed his pass protection either got worse or being next to Hurst effected it.

Either way he ain't helping my DaF team much at all right now

PS. Just saw post from Cawtious... Ty, gives me a little hope for the big guy

Edited October 5, 2016 by harfordravenfan

[jboy19]

I think it was a knee jerk reaction to begin with. At least they'll disappear.................. jk they're the same people calling for Tavon Young to start over Shareece Wright. Love those internet GMs. 

[rmcjacket23]

2 hours ago, Cawtious said:

I'll play!

1.  Still on the wagon

2.  If we are going to associate poor edge skills by Hurst as a modicum to roast Jensen, let's apply the same consideration to Yanda when Wagner got beat.  Where was Yanda?  Oh.....he was taking care of his man....which flows to #3

3.  Jensen was asked to not only deal with the man in front of him, but had to bolster the efforts of Hurst.  Go back and look at the edge rush on Hurst where he was beaten badly by Mack and was headed for Joe's legs.  Who chipped his man, and backtracked 6 yrds to the inside to stop Mack from wiping Joe out?  Yep.

4.  Jensen played how many snaps with the 1's at LG during camp to prep him and get him into the flow?  Granted he played the position last year for 5 games, but was NEVER given the chance to improve at the position during camp.  He was shifted to Center.  They have not let him settle in.  They keep playing musical chairs with him.  It's not helping things.

5. I saw four bad plays from him.  Two penalties (Hold and False Start) not two holds as others have indicated.  He got badly beat to the inside resulting in a QB hurry and Flacco having to dump the pass to the sideline for an incompletion.  He was beat resulting in a hit on Joe.  Attributing all 11 QB hits to "The Left Side of the Line" is hyperbole.  I watched him look over his shoulder and get caught between dealing with his man and helping a completely overmatched LT on most every pass play.  You cannot parlay Hurst's failures as Jensen's failures.  See #2 once again.  If that's how we're gonna do this, then make sure there is sauce enough for both gooses.

6. Look at some of the people Jensen has had to deal with:  Avril, Mack, the Steelers DT's, Cincinnati..... 6-7 games he's started in.  What has Alex dealt with so far as far as comparative talent from edge rushers and pro bowlers?  I'll reserve judgment on him until he lines up with the poorest guard in the league to his right against pro bowl caliber DL's.  Then I'll decide if he's better or worse or comparative in a similar situation.

Jensen needs to be given a consistent look at a specific position.  Would you expect Wagner to play LT and expect a more effective game from him?  You might, but is it realistic?  Why is it realistic to expect a Yeoman performance from Jensen when he's lined up at LG without sufficient reps (in my mind) this season, placing him next to one of the poorest rated LT's in the game, and then blow his butt out of the water when it goes badly?  Bad reach block....yep.....bad.  Bad penalties?  Yep not good.........blaming him for the woes of the LT......not so much.

 

Sorry about the long read.  GO RAVENS!!!

So basically, Jensen will succeed as long as he has a very good tackle playing next to him, doesn't have to go up against quality rushers, and has gotten many weeks of consecutive play (regardless of performance) under his belt?

Well good luck finding those moments happening very often. I guess since its unlikely any of those things will happen all at the same time, we are on the same page that Jensen shouldn't be given a starting role like some sort of charity case. 

Me personally, I would think the circumstances you described would be the perfect opportunity for Jensen to show his value by playing even better, but I guess we just see things differently in that regard.

Moot point obviously, because Lewis has done nothing to warrant a benching, and Jensen has done nothing to help his cause either.

[Filmstudy]

3 hours ago, Cawtious said:

Check the downfield block on his longest run.  Who sprung him 15 yrds downfield for additional yardage by cratering #27....yep.

 

That was a screen pass.  It will be on Jensen's career highlight reel, because he also knocked down a guy at the LoS.

If you're interested my OL article is now out.  Because the grades were so poor, I provided (Q, T) references for the main 4 culprits, so you can follow on Game Pass.

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/10/05/filmstudy/ravens-raiders-offensive-line-grades/

[rmcjacket23]

7 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

I think it was a knee jerk reaction to begin with. At least they'll disappear.................. jk they're the same people calling for Tavon Young to start over Shareece Wright. Love those internet GMs. 

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Tavon Young has spent most of his time in slot coverage. Playing the slot vs playing outside are two completely different things.

All I would say to guy who wants Young playing as an outside corner as a starter is... be careful what you wish for. If you don't think it can't get any worse than Wright, you're wrong (by a ton), and it very much can get worse. Like, a lot worse.

Edited October 5, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[jboy19]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Tavon Young has spent most of his time in slot coverage. Playing the slot vs playing outside are two completely different things.

All I would say to guy who wants Young playing as an outside corner as a starter is... be careful what you wish for. 

I'm definitely not one of those people, so idk. I'm actually pretty happy with how things are right now. 

[Filmstudy]

7 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

I think it was a knee jerk reaction to begin with. At least they'll disappear.................. jk they're the same people calling for Tavon Young to start over Shareece Wright. Love those internet GMs. 

Tavon is doing great where he is, but I don't see him on the outside. If he end up there in an emergency and plays well, I guess he could stick.  As of now he keeps proving why he's a better player than the 8-year vet (Powers) that he's competing with.   

Edited October 5, 2016 by Filmstudy