Merged: The Secondary

[PurpleCity5]

This thread is about the secondary as a whole. I haven't seen one yet so if there is one then please feel free to merge. 

Secondary has improved plenty but I feel like there is some missing element to it.

1.) This defense needs to presence of a shut down CB to give help to Shareece Wright in red-zone or scoring plays, oh yeah, which brings me too.... 

2.) Shareece Wrights plays decent to solid coverage, until scoring plays or in the redzone. He breaks down there and he just seems to forget everything. 

3.) Jimmy Smith is improving week-by-week as I predicted. He was solid in the Jaguars game, but the game against Oakland was his best of the season. Jimmy Smith tends to improve later on down the season, so I think we could get someone close to the old Jimmy Smith we're used to seeing. 

4.) Obviously Weddle has had a significant impact on this team and has been our best FA signing so far. 

5.) Would like to see turnovers among the secondary. Weddle and Young got an INT, but its good to have QBs think twice before throwing it to opposing CBs.

A much improved secondary, but I still feel like there's more to be desired. We need better FS play from Webb, we need Jimmy to return to form, we either need to decide to bench Wright or keep him and add safety help(Which I don't agree with), or we need to have someone emerge at CB. 

What do you guys think about the secondary so far? What more would you like to see? 

[usmccharles]

I would like to not see Wright matches due with players that he clearly can't handle.   I'd also like to not assume every third and long will be converted because it seems that usually happens with us

[trevorsteadman]

Wright is a good corner but the defense is not putting him in position to succeed. Allen Robinson makes 3 big plays on him and no adjustments made. No adjustments made after Crabtree's first and even second touchdown. 

[usmccharles]

How bad is Cromartie now? He was just released... 

[Gtown Purple]

I think a lack of real pass rush exposes us.

[PurpleCity5]

2 minutes ago, Gtown Purple said:

I think a lack of real pass rush exposes us.

Certainly doesn't help at all. Za'darius has been pretty underwhelming in terms of pass rush, I think we should just let Matt Judon take his place. 

[Gtown Purple]

2 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Certainly doesn't help at all. Za'darius has been pretty underwhelming in terms of pass rush, I think we should just let Matt Judon take his place. 

I was curious why Judon was down for this game. Doom admitted he was rusty which doesn't help. We had next to nothing for pressure on Carr, even with a 3rd string RT playing on their side.

[Purple_City39]

The pass defense is an enigma so far to me.  It's obvious Wright is the liability of the group, but where they rank is what confuses me.

#3 pass defense
#2 in yards per pass average allowed
#13 in opposing QB rating

Sounds good right?  The last stat is pretty much middle of the pack, but not horrible

#22 in passing TDs allowed
#21 in opposing QB completion percentage

And this is where it sucks with the TD stat primarily on Wright as he's allowed 4 of the 8 passing TDs in just the last two games.

So the team limits the deep ball and forces mistakes by QBs, but we also allow a good completion percentage on short passes and TDs whenever they get in the redzone.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

As a whole I like the addition of Weddle and the move of Webb from corner to safety the starting safeties are in good shape however the depth has me concerned with a big drop off in performance. Jimmy Smith is doing OK. Wright can tackle in the open field but gets burnt frequently.

I would like to see some of the younger guys get some looks.

  

[FlocksGottaFeed]

There is a definite improvement over last years, but we're still not completely there. I think that it will come down to how much pressure and sacks our line can get on the QBs. If they are winning those battles - we become a winning secondary.

I'm starting to think that it's called "Secondary" for those exact reasons - at least for me.

[RaineV1]

I do wonder why Kendrick Lewis went in for Webb after he got hurt over Levine. Levine has shown a lot more potential in coverage.

[BmoreRavens732]

1 hour ago, RaineV1 said:

I do wonder why Kendrick Lewis went in for Webb after he got hurt over Levine. Levine has shown a lot more potential in coverage.

They played Levine a lot in preseason and he was arguably our best defender at the time. Now he gets nothing but special teams. Wonder why?

[redrum52]

Weddle had a chance to seal the game but dropped a semi difficult pick.  Webb has been average I'd say, but the obvious weak points to to me is Wright.  I'd also like to point out we aren't hearing much about the a lot guy.  That's a good thing.

[PurpleHorseman]

I think the secondary is playing very well and doing its job. Keeping their end of the bargain for sure. Especially considering the underwhelming pressure on the QB. As for what may help the secondary outside of sacks?? Young and Davis could use some more playing time in place of Wright.

[PurpleCity5]

1 hour ago, BmoreRavens732 said:

They played Levine a lot in preseason and he was arguably our best defender at the time. Now he gets nothing but special teams. Wonder why?

I think Levine role's is just in dime packages. Four CB's, Four DL's, 1 LB and two safety's. You can have four CB's, three DL's, two LB's and two safety's, but against a team like the Raiders you're not getting any pressure what so ever.

You don't see dime packages as often on defense because teams you most teams would prefer to rush four or five guys. Levine is a dime CB at the moment. Wright is going to have to struggle more and more if Levine is going to see the field because I personally think he's the next man up. 

[PurpleCity5]

57 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

Weddle had a chance to seal the game but dropped a semi difficult pick.  Webb has been average I'd say, but the obvious weak points to to me is Wright.  I'd also like to point out we aren't hearing much about the a lot guy.  That's a good thing.

Webb hasn't let up in coverage but Webb just isn't Weddle in coverage. As you said he's just average and that's it. We need an impact player back there if we seriously want to have an even better secondary because average isn't cutting it. Weddle isn't really your traditional SS, he's more like an extra FS, he just roams around the field and does plenty in coverage, similar to Eric Berry and Malcolm Jenkins. I feel like another Eric Weddle at FS would be amazing. I just wish I could clone the guy. 

Edited October 5, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Ravens are currently 4th in passing defense, 5th in rushing defense, 2nd in total defense, etc...

We are 12th (middle to low of the pack of teams) in sacks. Once that sack number goes up to just the top 6 group of teams...our secondary will be called 'elite'.

That's how it works. There's no way to separate the front 7 from the secondary in actual performance rankings. It's always as the front 7 goes - the secondary goes. The front 7 first - the secondary 2nd.

[Maryland]

I'm starting to notice the criticisms that others raise about Wright, namely that he uses the sideline very well, but seems to struggle once receivers go inside the numbers.

[PurpleHorseman]

J. Smith, Davis and young could be dynamic in coverage. The Davis trade was a brilliant move by Oz. Secondary is really good with potential to be great. Is it just me or can Tavon Young tackle like a safety almost?? For a smaller corner he tackles with authority. My guess is Wright eventually loses playing time to Young and Davis.

[Maryland]

1 hour ago, PurpleHorseman said:

J. Smith, Davis and young could be dynamic in coverage. The Davis trade was a brilliant move by Oz. Secondary is really good with potential to be great. Is it just me or can Tavon Young tackle like a safety almost?? For a smaller corner he tackles with authority. My guess is Wright eventually loses playing time to Young and Davis.

Seems like they don't see Young as being an outside corner though, so it'd have to be Davis wrestling snaps away from him.

 

Young is a pretty good tackler though, I think most would agree with that. I think the only time I saw him whiff a tackle was in the Jags game on a punt return. 

Edited October 5, 2016 by Maryland

[BmoreBird22]

I almost half wish the Ravens would sell out to fix the secondary through the draft.

The Vikings (and Bengals with Zimmer) sold out to fix a position at a time and it's paid off by having incredible depth at positions so that they do not get burned if a player doesn't play well.

Namely, Zimmer seems to sell out on the secondary more than anything. He's already got a great trio in Munnerlyn, Newman, and Rhodes at CB, but what does he do? Drafts Trae Waynes and Mackensie Alexander. They're always prepared to have a backup plan.

In Cinci, they had Leon Hall, Pacman Jones, and Dre Kirkpatrick, so what do they do? They draft Darqueze Dennard in the first.

Not to mention that they double dipped in back to back rounds OT's in 2015 to prepare them for a few year's down the road when they no longer had Smith and Whitworth.

Kinda wish that were a strategy the Ravens would look at because it seems to be working for the Bengals and Vikings.

[Worthy]

29 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Kinda wish that were a strategy the Ravens would look at because it seems to be working for the Bengals and Vikings.

I think they have been doing that for years!  If you look at this rookie class in a few years, I believe you'll see 7 impactful starters on a regular basis.  Stanley, Correa, Young, Moore, Lewis, Dixon and Judon all look to be great draft picks so far.

If the Ravens were looking at the salary cap situation next year in this years draft class, they probably foresaw the need to cut Dumervil ($6 M Base), Pitta ($5.5M Base), Watson ($3M Base), Forsett ($3M Base), K. Lewis ($1.8 M Base), and Arrington ($2.1 M Base).  

They probably saw the savings to the Vets allowing them to sign this offseason Brandon Williams and Ricky Wagner -- which will eat most of the savings from cuts they foresaw. 

So they drafted whom they needed to replace Dumervil in the tandem of Correa and Judon.  They drafted 4 TEs (if you include Waller) to restock our TE line.  We grabbed a RB in Dixon to replace Forsett next year.  We grabbed Young to replace Arrington.

So I believe they Ravens have been doing exactly what you say the Bengals and Vikings are doing! 

Edited October 5, 2016 by Worthy

[Militant X 1]

16 hours ago, ALSKAN RAVEN FAN said:

As a whole I like the addition of Weddle and the move of Webb from corner to safety the starting safeties are in good shape however the depth has me concerned with a big drop off in performance. Jimmy Smith is doing OK. Wright can tackle in the open field but gets burnt frequently.

I would like to see some of the younger guys get some looks.

  

I remember when a few cats in here were screaming no at the suggestion of Webb being moved to safety.  My how times have changed. 

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, Militant X 1 said:

I remember when a few cats in here were screaming no at the suggestion of Webb being moved to safety.  My how times have changed. 

That was also back when our next options at CB were the likes of Chykie Brown and Asa Jackson and back when Webb was still a decent CB.

[OUravensfan]

Has Kendrick Lewis ever made a play for us?

[BmoreBird22]

5 hours ago, Worthy said:

I think they have been doing that for years!  If you look at this rookie class in a few years, I believe you'll see 7 impactful starters on a regular basis.  Stanley, Correa, Young, Moore, Lewis, Dixon and Judon all look to be great draft picks so far.

If the Ravens were looking at the salary cap situation next year in this years draft class, they probably foresaw the need to cut Dumervil ($6 M Base), Pitta ($5.5M Base), Watson ($3M Base), Forsett ($3M Base), K. Lewis ($1.8 M Base), and Arrington ($2.1 M Base).  

They probably saw the savings to the Vets allowing them to sign this offseason Brandon Williams and Ricky Wagner -- which will eat most of the savings from cuts they foresaw. 

So they drafted whom they needed to replace Dumervil in the tandem of Correa and Judon.  They drafted 4 TEs (if you include Waller) to restock our TE line.  We grabbed a RB in Dixon to replace Forsett next year.  We grabbed Young to replace Arrington.

So I believe they Ravens have been doing exactly what you say the Bengals and Vikings are doing! 

They aren't doing what the Bengals and Vikings are doing. 

The Vikings and Bengals are overloading on one or two positions in the draft with the mentality that it may leave a hole here or there in the roster. They're okay with that because they know it's gonna take a few years for the draft class to contribute, anyway. 

What it allows them to do is sit those players who may not be day one ready instead of throwing them into the fire, in turn allowing them time to get their game to be pro ready. Look at the Vikings with Trae Waynes and Laquon Treadwell. Waynes barely played as a rookie and has become a very valuable contributor in year two. I think Treadwell has played less than 10 snaps total. They're allowing them to sit.

The Ravens are drafting to plug up some holes and plan for the future a little bit, but nothing like the Bengals or Vikings.

[PurpleCity5]

3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

They aren't doing what the Bengals and Vikings are doing. 

The Vikings and Bengals are overloading on one or two positions in the draft with the mentality that it may leave a hole here or there in the roster. They're okay with that because they know it's gonna take a few years for the draft class to contribute, anyway. 

What it allows them to do is sit those players who may not be day one ready instead of throwing them into the fire, in turn allowing them time to get their game to be pro ready. Look at the Vikings with Trae Waynes and Laquon Treadwell. Waynes barely played as a rookie and has become a very valuable contributor in year two. I think Treadwell has played less than 10 snaps total. They're allowing them to sit.

The Ravens are drafting to plug up some holes and plan for the future a little bit, but nothing like the Bengals or Vikings.

I agree, CB was a problem in 2014 and what was your big signing/draftee in 2015? Not much, 2016? Again, not much there outside of Tavon Young and when we're talking about Tavon Young(Love the guy) being your best acquisition at CB since you've been exposed there, then you're not really stacking there.  

[jazz1988]

21 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

I do wonder why Kendrick Lewis went in for Webb after he got hurt over Levine. Levine has shown a lot more potential in coverage.

Good question. It may be because the coaches probably feel Kendrick Lewis has it mentally to handle the responsibilities that comes with playing at free safety or strong safety than Levine . He is definitely more experienced than Levine .

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

5 hours ago, OUravensfan said:

Has Kendrick Lewis ever made a play for us?

Cant honestly recall. So I would be willing to bet NO!!!!!!

[Rav'n Maniac]

6 hours ago, OUravensfan said:

Has Kendrick Lewis ever made a play for us?

Has 5 PD & 1 FF while with us.