[News] Late For Work 10/3: 9 Takeaways From Ravens' Loss To Oakland Raiders

[balfan23]

Here's the thing ... we can talk about "self-inflicted mistakes", but not all penalties qualify. Many of our penalties that are crushing our drives are not stupid, undisciplined penalties ... they are a result of being totally out matched on the offensive line. Grabbing someone around the neck to keep Flacco from getting killed because the man across the line from you has smoked you isn't a "self-inflicted" mistake. 

[balfan23]

After the first 3 games, many have been asking ... we've gotten away with some pretty shaky play given our opponents ... how good of a team will we have to face before it catches up to us. 

I think we just got the answer. 

[drillem]

Team may have got complacent due to caliper of previous opponents. Penalties were stupid and costly. Too many good plays were doused due to mistakes, dropped passes, penalties. In short this team beat itself. Loss like this may be pivotal in thinking by players in future matches. Even though it was only a one point difference it was very painful due to sloppy performance by so many. And that can be earth shaking.

[Ravenshine]

NFL has a new meme: the "taunting spinning ball" someone needs to animate it with eyes and smirky mouth and give it a voice of Don Rickles. That ball is wreaking havoc all around the NFL, that's one rude ball. LOL...give us all a break, and let these football players be themselves and celebrate their plays. Quit trying to turn beasts of the wild into zoo creatures.

[The Greek]

o-line must improve. the slow starts and stupid penalties are killing this team

[rmcjacket23]

Nine Takeaways....

1. Missed Tackles - Aiken on the punt return, ZDarius on the long run.

2. Penalties - Big run plays, big pass plays all negated by holding penalties. And the Coup de Grace - Wallace's stupid penalty that gave the Raiders the ball on the 33 to start the game winning drive.

3. Ryan Jensen is bad.

4. Jeremy Zuttah is worse

5. West ran well but still has fumbling issues - it's what got him cut from Ten.

6. Steve Smith is a beast.

7. Don't blame Harbaugh for taking the penalty - blame the defense for giving up 24 yards on 3rd & 18.

8. No pass rush = loss.

9. Concussion Protocol claims it's 1st victim. Webb had to sit out and Lewis played out of position otherwise it may have turned out differently. I can see this being an issue - having a team's QB have to take a seat for the last drive because he's being evaluated. What do you think would happen if Tom Brady had to come out for a series and Jimmy G threw a game losing INT.

Zuttah played very well yesterday. Easily his best game of the season. Got high grades from PFF and I expect FilmStudy to grade him out well as well.

Issue yesterday was on the left side. Hurst and Jensen were very bad. Yanda and Zuttah were overall very good.

[whobilly]

After the first 3 games, many have been asking ... we've gotten away with some pretty shaky play given our opponents ... how good of a team will we have to face before it catches up to us. 

I think we just got the answer. 

The answer is we can compete with every team in the NFL. Do you think the Steelers felt any different after they got destroyed by Philly last week?

[balfan23]

27 minutes ago, whobilly said:

The answer is we can compete with every team in the NFL. Do you think the Steelers felt any different after they got destroyed by Philly last week?

No one was saying we couldn't be competitive - we just knew that playing the way we have been wasn't going to cut it as the competition got stiffer. Flacco admitted as much and we proved that to be correct yesterday. We'll see if we can feel the same way the Steelers felt during this weeks practices and as we go into week 5, by coming out and taking a 36-0 lead against the Redskins next week.

What is frustrating is, I think if this o line could be solid ... maybe even decent ... I think we would be a dominant team. A true contender. I think the offense has what it needs, but they can't build the chemistry and utilize their strengths without the guys up front doing their job. The problem is I don't know how we get there. We can hope that our young guys on the left side just improve with time, but what was made clear yesterday is the lack of depth is frightening. We can afford zero injury issues on the o line and that's kind of unrealistic. 

[Ravenous_Ravens]

Right now I am most worried about the offense. Not the ability of the players, but manner the plays are called and their execution. Seems either plays are quick hitters that go for too few yards to really help or deep bombs that require excellent protection to even have a chance to get the play off before pass rush gets there. Really missing Kukiak's system. It was simple and always ensured the ball is coming out quick, always. Every play had either a 3-step, 5-step or 7 step drop back, at which point the ball was to be released promptly to the open receiver. With Trestman's offense Joe drops back and sits and waits all day way too often. No doubt why this offense is too easy to get out of sync. The offense itself does not instill any rhythm.

Someone better tell Flacco if he holds onto the ball even a hair past 3 seconds, he's getting smacked. Heck have a coach with a pool noodle smack him silly upside the head in practice as soon as his 3 seconds are up so it sinks in. Not rocket science that him holding the ball too long is the reason for taking a beating and making it much tougher on his blockers. If Trestman complains that is not enough time to execute any plays, then scrap those plays because they are not good enough for this league.

If Joe cannot throw off his planted foot instead of his back foot, then put Malett in there. This would seem to be a strong indicator that Joe is still not 100% as as such should not be out there, especially when the offensive line is in flux.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

  2 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

Nine Takeaways....

1. Missed Tackles - Aiken on the punt return, ZDarius on the long run.

2. Penalties - Big run plays, big pass plays all negated by holding penalties. And the Coup de Grace - Wallace's stupid penalty that gave the Raiders the ball on the 33 to start the game winning drive.

3. Ryan Jensen is bad.

4. Jeremy Zuttah is worse

5. West ran well but still has fumbling issues - it's what got him cut from Ten.

6. Steve Smith is a beast.

7. Don't blame Harbaugh for taking the penalty - blame the defense for giving up 24 yards on 3rd & 18.

8. No pass rush = loss.

9. Concussion Protocol claims it's 1st victim. Webb had to sit out and Lewis played out of position otherwise it may have turned out differently. I can see this being an issue - having a team's QB have to take a seat for the last drive because he's being evaluated. What do you think would happen if Tom Brady had to come out for a series and Jimmy G threw a game losing INT.

Zuttah played very well yesterday. Easily his best game of the season. Got high grades from PFF and I expect FilmStudy to grade him out well as well.

Issue yesterday was on the left side. Hurst and Jensen were very bad. Yanda and Zuttah were overall very good.

Guess you forgot the 2 holding calls on Zuttah that stalled otherwise productive drives due to not trusting technique. Just like wow, come on. A seasoned vet needs to know better and let up and take what you get, instead of wipe out a good play and set the entire offense back in a whole.

Penalty issue was not limited to just Zuttah though. Yesterday was like a soft practice as far as motivation and focus. Wouldn't know it was a home game the way they came out, only to actually show up in the fourth quarter.

[BigUgly]

With some reflection, trying to tie together all of the little things that compounded to a loss, it comes down to coaching and preparation. 10 penalties? Coaching. Poor kick coverage? Coaching. Scheme that doesn't commit to the run early and puts a weekend O-Line in bad situations? Coaching. Failing to manufacture pressure on the QB or getting help for a CB getting torched routinely? Coaching. Coming out flat and starting slow the first half of every game? Coaching.

That begins and ends with Harbs, whose seat may just be getting a bit warmer unless these trends reverse themselves.

[eze17]

It's amazing how Kendrick Lewis needed no more than one play to remind us why we were out on the market for a good safety...

Yeah, I was surprised he even made the roster. And I would add Hurst right along on that list. I know that they are both back-ups, but come on, these two end up hurting the team when ever they end up out on the field. And I tried to give Hurst the benefit of the doubt before yesterdays game, but man, he just stunk up the joint! You gotta love his quote "it wasn't very good", wow, no kidding...these two are supposed to be NFL caliber veterans, but they sure look like scrubs from this angle.

[Jonah DeVito]

4 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

Nine Takeaways....

1. Missed Tackles - Aiken on the punt return, ZDarius on the long run.

2. Penalties - Big run plays, big pass plays all negated by holding penalties. And the Coup de Grace - Wallace's stupid penalty that gave the Raiders the ball on the 33 to start the game winning drive.

3. Ryan Jensen is bad.

4. Jeremy Zuttah is worse

5. West ran well but still has fumbling issues - it's what got him cut from Ten.

6. Steve Smith is a beast.

7. Don't blame Harbaugh for taking the penalty - blame the defense for giving up 24 yards on 3rd & 18.

8. No pass rush = loss.

9. Concussion Protocol claims it's 1st victim. Webb had to sit out and Lewis played out of position otherwise it may have turned out differently. I can see this being an issue - having a team's QB have to take a seat for the last drive because he's being evaluated. What do you think would happen if Tom Brady had to come out for a series and Jimmy G threw a game losing INT.

You're mistaken. Zuttah was rated as a top 5 O-lineman in week 4. Its called facts. Jensen also played better than hurst, who you forgot to mention. The defense did not give up 24 yards on 3rd and 18, they gave up 17. That's why the raiders went for it on 4th down. 

[jravens1313]

We need a LG to Step up and we need our Rookie 1st Round pick to step up to help this offense. Heavy Terrence West and some explosive plays from Dixon that turn a poorly blocked plays into 20 yards. That is what we need to help save our offense from atrocious playcalling.

If we just played smashmouth and took play action shots deep our offense would run like a well oiled machine. When you change up your sets, your philosophy must remain the same. Commit to the RUN! Instead we get too cute. Trestman would rather look for a new way to run trips. Our defense has won every game. The defense can't be faulted for that loss, but they could have come up with a fg stand just as well. Carr is already becoming a great QB and one of the plays they gave up was due to injury (KENDRICK LEWIS) on the game winning TD. I could have made that play if I knew the play call. Wright was in cover 4 Zone but expected to funnel his man right into the safety (LEIWS) for an interception, or deflection. LEWIS just looks like a deer in the headlights and lets his man run right by him... You made over $200K for that game and you can focus for your 1st big play of the game. I would cut him today.

[eze17]

With some reflection, trying to tie together all of the little things that compounded to a loss, it comes down to coaching and preparation. 10 penalties? Coaching. Poor kick coverage? Coaching. Scheme that doesn't commit to the run early and puts a weekend O-Line in bad situations? Coaching. Failing to manufacture pressure on the QB or getting help for a CB getting torched routinely? Coaching. Coming out flat and starting slow the first half of every game? Coaching.

That begins and ends with Harbs, whose seat may just be getting a bit warmer unless these trends reverse themselves.

Well, it certainly is easy to blame everything on the coaching, and nothing on the actual players...Hell, there wasn't enough ice in my drink at the stadium, that must have been the coaches fault also, thanks, now I know who to blame for EVERY single thing that goes wrong...

[jravens1313]

Right now I am most worried about the offense. Not the ability of the players, but manner the plays are called and their execution. Seems either plays are quick hitters that go for too few yards to really help or deep bombs that require excellent protection to even have a chance to get the play off before pass rush gets there. Really missing Kukiak's system. It was simple and always ensured the ball is coming out quick, always. Every play had either a 3-step, 5-step or 7 step drop back, at which point the ball was to be released promptly to the open receiver. With Trestman's offense Joe drops back and sits and waits all day way too often. No doubt why this offense is too easy to get out of sync. The offense itself does not instill any rhythm.

Someone better tell Flacco if he holds onto the ball even a hair past 3 seconds, he's getting smacked. Heck have a coach with a pool noodle smack him silly upside the head in practice as soon as his 3 seconds are up so it sinks in. Not rocket science that him holding the ball too long is the reason for taking a beating and making it much tougher on his blockers. If Trestman complains that is not enough time to execute any plays, then scrap those plays because they are not good enough for this league.

If Joe cannot throw off his planted foot instead of his back foot, then put Malett in there. This would seem to be a strong indicator that Joe is still not 100% as as such should not be out there, especially when the offensive line is in flux.

Kubiaks runs play action and plays smashmouth. Thats what we need. Especially with our big physical run blocking o-Line that is having a tough time is pass pro. Everyone is hating on Jensen, but did you guys see the holes Terrence West had in the 2nd Half? Our O-Line was mauling in that game and we threw the ball 52 times.

[Godfather A]

I was at the game yesterday. The one I watched was a nail biter. The desire to blow up the team here sounds like we got blown out by a weak opponent.

[jravens1313]

2 hours ago, Raven1995 said:

We would also need Kelechi Osemele Back for that to work.

Did you see how we were running the ball? We only ran 26 times and threw 52... Flacco Turnovers are also costly. 

[rmcjacket23]

30 minutes ago, Ravenous_Ravens said:

Guess you forgot the 2 holding calls on Zuttah that stalled otherwise productive drives due to not trusting technique. Just like wow, come on. A seasoned vet needs to know better and let up and take what you get, instead of wipe out a good play and set the entire offense back in a whole.

Penalty issue was not limited to just Zuttah though. Yesterday was like a soft practice as far as motivation and focus. Wouldn't know it was a home game the way they came out, only to actually show up in the fourth quarter.

I agree that the holding penalties were a problem (6 penalties against our OL yesterday), but wouldn't necessarily call Zuttah's "drive killers".

The first was literally the third offensive play of the game for the Ravens in the 1st quarter on a 2nd and 8 from our own 38. We also committed an OPI on that drive that killed it as well.

The other one did hurt a bit more, as it was on 1st down at midfield on our first drive of the second half.

Not excusing the penalties because they can't happen, just saying.

[eze17]

I blame stupid penalties as a major factor in this loss...everyone says we need to start out quicker, but two flags that negated first downs and backed us up to an unreasonable distance killed our opening drive...No excuse for special teams penalties when this is supposed to be a team strength...Veteran players should fully realize the zebra's are just waiting to throw flags for almost any kind of end zone celebration these days...I guess that I can't fault all the O-line holding penalties however, cause otherwise poor ole' Flacco would have been carried off the field in a stretcher, which it was really lucky that he wasn't anyways...

Sorry, but it always frustrates me when we give up a game that we could have just as easily won...The team played well enough to eek out a win, it just wasn't meant to be. Hopefully this will serve to wake them up and get them motivated to play better football...

[jravens1313]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Zuttah played very well yesterday. Easily his best game of the season. Got high grades from PFF and I expect FilmStudy to grade him out well as well.

Issue yesterday was on the left side. Hurst and Jensen were very bad. Yanda and Zuttah were overall very good.

I was at the game and even noticed Zuttah and Jensen run blocking VERY well from the upper deck. PS: SSR is a living legend. We ran 26x for 130 yds and 2 TDs. The O-Line was mauling. Trestman's pass happy unbalanced offense exposed weaknesses in pass pro. 

[griffrb]

Protect the QB? Run the football. It works every time. Let the Oline block downhill instead of backing up hill all game. If Trestman can't do that, send him packing back to the CFL. It's not complicated. It's Ravens Football.

[rmcjacket23]

22 minutes ago, griffrb said:

Protect the QB? Run the football. It works every time. Let the Oline block downhill instead of backing up hill all game. If Trestman can't do that, send him packing back to the CFL. It's not complicated. It's Ravens Football.

Well it doesn't work when your Oline doesn't block well and the other team stops the run well.

It worked well yesterday, but certainly not going to be that easy against better run defenses in our future.

[Militant X 1]

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well it doesn't work when your Oline doesn't block well and the other team stops the run well.

It worked well yesterday, but certainly not going to be that easy against better run defenses in our future.

Let me ask you this; what is it about this O-line that the Ravens coaching staff can't seem to get right?

Year after year and season after season we're going over the same ole' same ole' on the forums about the O-line and it's inability to protect Joe...especially on passing downs.  It's sickening!

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, Militant X 1 said:

Let me ask you this; what is it about this O-line that the Ravens coaching staff can't seem to get right?

Year after year and season after season we're going over the same ole' same ole' on the forums about the O-line and it's inability to protect Joe...especially on passing downs.  It's sickening!

Well, in fairness, its only been the last few years.

Short answer would be personnel and depth. Obviously we haven't had stability at LT really since Ogden left, so that doesn't help.

Youth on the left side is sort of a problem, but our starting five is quite good to be honest. They may not always consistently good, but the starting unit is easily a top 10 unit in the league.

We clearly lack depth at key spots, namely tackle. Basically had 40% of our Oline out yesterday against a quality pass rush unit, so that'll be a problem as long as that continues.

[BMORE = BEASTING]

Testman needs to go!

[TheSim]

44 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well, in fairness, its only been the last few years.

Short answer would be personnel and depth. Obviously we haven't had stability at LT really since Ogden left, so that doesn't help.

Youth on the left side is sort of a problem, but our starting five is quite good to be honest. They may not always consistently good, but the starting unit is easily a top 10 unit in the league.

We clearly lack depth at key spots, namely tackle. Basically had 40% of our Oline out yesterday against a quality pass rush unit, so that'll be a problem as long as that continues.

The youth/substitute thing is definitely a factor, but I don't think enough attention is paid to the sharp drop-off in both run-game and pass protection since Juan Castillo was hired, first as an O-line consultant and now as the O-line coach. 

Part of being in that position is developing young talent, and I just don't see him doing that. James Hurst and Ryan Jensen were both talented guys when we added them several years ago, but neither of them seem to have improved much since they started with the team. Contrast that with other positions, like D-line (RIP CB) and I/OLB, where we've had lots of young talent come through and go from raw to polished in a few years. I don't like to call coaches out, but in this case with the O-line, that's probably on the coaching staff. If you're not making your young players better, then you need better coaching.

[rmcjacket23]

4 minutes ago, TheSim said:

The youth/substitute thing is definitely a factor, but I don't think enough attention is paid to the sharp drop-off in both run-game and pass protection since Juan Castillo was hired, first as an O-line consultant and now as the O-line coach. 

Part of being in that position is developing young talent, and I just don't see him doing that. James Hurst and Ryan Jensen were both talented guys when we added them several years ago, but neither of them seem to have improved much since they started with the team. Contrast that with other positions, like D-line (RIP CB) and I/OLB, where we've had lots of young talent come through and go from raw to polished in a few years. I don't like to call coaches out, but in this case with the O-line, that's probably on the coaching staff. If you're not making your young players better, then you need better coaching.

Yeah, not buying that even a little bit...

He's basically been running our offensive line since 2013, so this is his fourth year. During that time, we made KO (a 2nd rounder) a fortune, and we turned a 4th rounder in Rick Wagner into a quality starter. Have no reason to think Lewis and Stanley won't be quality players either.

Never really saw the huge talent that Jensen or Hurst had. One was a 6th round pick and the other was a UDFA. Nothing I've seen from them so far indicates that a better offensive line coach would do much better with them. They even played under Kubiak's system, where all offensive lineman seemingly do well, and neither was impressive.

 

[steelraven]

Trestman might be the worse offensive coordinator in Ravens history. He's time with the Bears and Jay Cutler explains everything I need to know about him and it's bleeding right into the Ravens offense. That last play on offense on that 4th and 10, you have to know your personnel. Aiken is not Anquan Boldin, Anybody with common sense would've had Pitta or Steve Smith in that slot where Joe threw it to. But at some point Flacco needs to start speaking up and say no this is what we're going to do.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, steelraven said:

Trestman might be the worse offensive coordinator in Ravens history. He's time with the Bears and Jay Cutler explains everything I need to know about him and it's bleeding right into the Ravens offense. That last play on offense on that 4th and 10, you have to know your personnel. Aiken is not Anquan Boldin, Anybody with common sense would've had Pitta or Steve Smith in that slot where Joe threw it to. But at some point Flacco needs to start speaking up and say no this is what we're going to do.

If you put Pitta or especially SSS in the slot there, he likely garners more attention, so the ball probably isn't even thrown there.