2017 O line

[Adreme]

A WR, or any pick on offense that isn't center, in any of the first 3 rounds feels like a waste when, even knowing best player available is the best way to draft, they just are not needed.  The Ravens will likely add a veteran WR in free agency so there just won't be room with Wallace and Perriman being the other 2 main WRs.

Basically outside of Center they just need to hunt for defensive playmakers (can always use those) which makes me wonder where will the top centers in the draft likely be going so this pressing need can be knocked out as early as possible?

[RaineV1]

25 minutes ago, Adreme said:

A WR, or any pick on offense that isn't center, in any of the first 3 rounds feels like a waste when, even knowing best player available is the best way to draft, they just are not needed.  The Ravens will likely add a veteran WR in free agency so there just won't be room with Wallace and Perriman being the other 2 main WRs.

Basically outside of Center they just need to hunt for defensive playmakers (can always use those) which makes me wonder where will the top centers in the draft likely be going so this pressing need can be knocked out as early as possible?

I don't think any of the centers are worth picking in the middle of the 1st. Elflien could be a good trade back target. In the 2nd, Pocic or Mason Cole from Michigan.

[ngatathroughstreet]

37 minutes ago, Adreme said:

A WR, or any pick on offense that isn't center, in any of the first 3 rounds feels like a waste when, even knowing best player available is the best way to draft, they just are not needed.  The Ravens will likely add a veteran WR in free agency so there just won't be room with Wallace and Perriman being the other 2 main WRs.

Basically outside of Center they just need to hunt for defensive playmakers (can always use those) which makes me wonder where will the top centers in the draft likely be going so this pressing need can be knocked out as early as possible?

I can't get on board with this. I like the idea of a great center (J.C. Tretter in FA would be great) but I think RB is the way to go. West and Dixon are fine but Dalvin Cook could make our offense look incredible. I would be thrilled with him or Corey Davis but I don't think these Centers deserve first round grades.

[Adreme]

4 hours ago, ngatathroughstreet said:

I can't get on board with this. I like the idea of a great center (J.C. Tretter in FA would be great) but I think RB is the way to go. West and Dixon are fine but Dalvin Cook could make our offense look incredible. I would be thrilled with him or Corey Davis but I don't think these Centers deserve first round grades.

RB are not really a position worth taking a risk on when if you get a great OL you can make any RB look great AND have a great passing threat to with it.   I said earlier though I am not sure about where the top Centers in the draft would end up going but I think its worthwhile to try and position yourself to get either the top or one of the top Centers just to be able to cement the offensive line as elite for years to come.

[GrimCoconut]

11 hours ago, Adreme said:

RB are not really a position worth taking a risk on when if you get a great OL you can make any RB look great AND have a great passing threat to with it.   I said earlier though I am not sure about where the top Centers in the draft would end up going but I think its worthwhile to try and position yourself to get either the top or one of the top Centers just to be able to cement the offensive line as elite for years to come.

Talk to #1 overall seed 13-3 Dallas Cowboys about that. Your point about RB is slightly valid but if you have a major talent at RB with a talented OL then you have way more success because we saw RB with Dallas behind the same OL not do nearly as well as Elliott 

[Jacquouille]

22 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Talk to #1 overall seed 13-3 Dallas Cowboys about that. Your point about RB is slightly valid but if you have a major talent at RB with a talented OL then you have way more success because we saw RB with Dallas behind the same OL not do nearly as well as Elliott 

Jordan Howard went 4 rounds after Eliott and had as good a season as Eliott. It's been proven year after year that you can get talented RB in any rounds. Taking a RB in the first round can pay huge dividends but if you have bigger needs it's a priority to adress them before RB.

[GrimCoconut]

14 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Jordan Howard went 4 rounds after Eliott and had as good a season as Eliott. It's been proven year after year that you can get talented RB in any rounds. Taking a RB in the first round can pay huge dividends but if you have bigger needs it's a priority to adress them before RB.

It depends on the RB. It's a lot easier to distinguish Elliott as a top RB and a safe pick than Howard. Your opinion is great in theory and by the same token you can find any position in any round. I can play your same game--the difference is it's easier to see it at the top. Clearly we didn't think he was better than Dixon because Howard was drafted after Dixon, so what makes you think our scouting could've done better in later scenarios because that's clearly an issue. 

I like Dixon a lot, btw, I just think your argument has some serious flaws in it as it currently stands. 

[Jacquouille]

4 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

It depends on the RB. It's a lot easier to distinguish Elliott as a top RB and a safe pick than Howard. Your opinion is great in theory and by the same token you can find any position in any round. I can play your same game--the difference is it's easier to see it at the top. Clearly we didn't think he was better than Dixon because Howard was drafted after Dixon, so what makes you think our scouting could've done better in later scenarios because that's clearly an issue. 

I like Dixon a lot, btw, I just think your argument has some serious flaws in it as it currently stands. 

Dixon's case is a little pariculiar given the year and the treatment he's had, but yes I figured you would bring that up. My point is, RB is one of the most important positions but there's a reason why teams rarely draft a RB early, and that's because it's one of the easiest transition at the next level. A lot of good RB prospects are good in the pros, while very little elite ED or CB were not taken in the 1st or 2nd round. 

Howard was a very good prospect, but had only one year of playing at Indianna and had the advantage of running behind a very good OL, by the way.

[rmw10]

I think it's great if you have a superstar RB, but before I do that, I'd want the OL in place first.  With the short shelf life of RBs, I'd want to be getting the most out of my guy for as long as I can if I'm taking one as early as Zeke went.  Zeke has a great OL, and combined with Zeke being great, that was an obvious recipe for success.  Howard put together a good year, but I don't think there's much question that Zeke is the better all around back.  On the other token, you have someone like Gurley who is supremely talented in his own right, but couldn't do anything behind the atrocity that the Rams had out there.

All in all, it depends on where you're at with your team.  I'd still prioritize building the OL first before making a large investment into the RB position.  I think you can make that investment, but it depends on how the rest of your team shakes up.  I think it made a ton of sense for Dallas.

[GrimCoconut]

24 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I think it's great if you have a superstar RB, but before I do that, I'd want the OL in place first.  With the short shelf life of RBs, I'd want to be getting the most out of my guy for as long as I can if I'm taking one as early as Zeke went.  Zeke has a great OL, and combined with Zeke being great, that was an obvious recipe for success.  Howard put together a good year, but I don't think there's much question that Zeke is the better all around back.  On the other token, you have someone like Gurley who is supremely talented in his own right, but couldn't do anything behind the atrocity that the Rams had out there.

All in all, it depends on where you're at with your team.  I'd still prioritize building the OL first before making a large investment into the RB position.  I think you can make that investment, but it depends on how the rest of your team shakes up.  I think it made a ton of sense for Dallas.

I don't think our OL is that far away from being really good with investments into Stanley, Yanda, and hopefully retaining Wagner that's a great core and Lewis could be a part of that too. I think we need a new center but those are tricky to find since their success rate is all over the place in the draft. 

[rmw10]

7 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I don't think our OL is that far away from being really good with investments into Stanley, Yanda, and hopefully retaining Wagner that's a great core and Lewis could be a part of that too. I think we need a new center but those are tricky to find since their success rate is all over the place in the draft. 

Yeah agreed.  We need a couple of guys, Wagner included there, but Yanda, Stanley, and even Lewis is a nice building point.  A lot of people will knock down Lewis but I think he really started to come into his own before he got hurt.

[Rebel Raven]

Drafting a rb in the first would be a waste imo, we have two decent backs and under utilized them. It would make far more sense to shore up a weaker position such as center, pass rush, secondary or even the wideouts. Cook is good dont get me wrong but it just wouldnt make much sense.

[January J]

If fournette somehow fell past pick 8 would anybody consider trading up for him?  I too don't think our line is that far away...we can invest in a center with our second pick and boom we will be right there with an elite rb corps and very solid o line. Even if the center didn't work out right away we could continue to groom urschel during camp and may the best man win. 

However this is not the best option for this team.. A center is needed...but we have a running back that has a ton of potential in Dixon and a third back can be found later- who knows they might already be on the team. Where we stand right now- we almost HAVE to address the pass rush in the first round. Bisciotti will not have it any other way- and that is the one thing that kept us from the playoffs this year. With even a slightly better pass rush we could've finished off atleast 3 more games that we lost at the end- including that steelers last drive. So unless another blue chip player falls in our lap due to unknown reasons ( a la Tunsil last year) we have to go with the best pass rusher on the board. No questions asked. And they cannot be a project like KC. immediate contribution.

Edited January 6 by January J

[JoeyFlex5]

17 hours ago, January J said:

If fournette somehow fell past pick 8 would anybody consider trading up for him?  I too don't think our line is that far away...we can invest in a center with our second pick and boom we will be right there with an elite rb corps and very solid o line. Even if the center didn't work out right away we could continue to groom urschel during camp and may the best man win. 

However this is not the best option for this team.. A center is needed...but we have a running back that has a ton of potential in Dixon and a third back can be found later- who knows they might already be on the team. Where we stand right now- we almost HAVE to address the pass rush in the first round. Bisciotti will not have it any other way- and that is the one thing that kept us from the playoffs this year. With even a slightly better pass rush we could've finished off atleast 3 more games that we lost at the end- including that steelers last drive. So unless another blue chip player falls in our lap due to unknown reasons ( a la Tunsil last year) we have to go with the best pass rusher on the board. No questions asked. And they cannot be a project like KC. immediate contribution.

fournette with his nagging ankle and high mileage and running style worries me. if hes there at 16 id do it but i wouldnt trade up for a guy at a low value position with real concerns. 

hes gonna age a lot faster than the typical runningback the way he runs, especially if our OL is anything short of elite.

[January J]

On 1/7/2017 at 3:56 AM, JoeyFlex5 said:

fournette with his nagging ankle and high mileage and running style worries me. if hes there at 16 id do it but i wouldnt trade up for a guy at a low value position with real concerns. 

hes gonna age a lot faster than the typical runningback the way he runs, especially if our OL is anything short of elite.

Honestly I don't think he's gonna fair well in the NFL. I could be wayyy wrong but I just have a hunch he's gonna have a hard time unless he goes to a team with a great o line. He ran all over weak defenses but teams that had strong run D's he often struggled with. And like you said I think he may struggle with injuries.

[JoeyFlex5]

24 minutes ago, January J said:

Honestly I don't think he's gonna fair well in the NFL. I could be wayyy wrong but I just have a hunch he's gonna have a hard time unless he goes to a team with a great o line. He ran all over weak defenses but teams that had strong run D's he often struggled with. And like you said I think he may struggle with injuries.

Nail on the head. I think dalvin cook will be far more effective especially on a team without a great OL because he's gonna contribute in more ways than fournette and is more of a home run hitter.

[rossihunter2]

I'm only just getting to OL but what do you guys think of forest lamp and dan feeney?

[JoeyFlex5]

9 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

I'm only just getting to OL but what do you guys think of forest lamp and dan feeney?

Dan feeney reminds me of KO. he's a beast of a mauler. He's got that gorilla posture and he engages with authority and once he latches on its over. And he rarely misses blocks when he's on the move. By far the best puller in the class, he blasts holes wide open when he pulls with a nice playside step and gets to the hole quick. He has a high 2nd round grade but I don't get it. If you consider guard a valued position(which I do) and don't prefer boom or bust guys at sexy positions, then I give him and Quentin Nelson both a mid first round grade. I wouldn't bat an eye if we took either at 16 but I feel we could grab one after a hefty trade back so that would be my only concern.

I haven't watched lamp yet. 

[Jacquouille]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Dan feeney reminds me of KO. he's a beast of a mauler. He's got that gorilla posture and he engages with authority and once he latches on its over. And he rarely misses blocks when he's on the move. By far the best puller in the class, he blasts holes wide open when he pulls with a nice playside step and gets to the hole quick. He has a high 2nd round grade but I don't get it. If you consider guard a valued position(which I do) and don't prefer boom or bust guys at sexy positions, then I give him and Quentin Nelson both a mid first round grade. I wouldn't bat an eye if we took either at 16 but I feel we could grab one after a hefty trade back so that would be my only concern.

I haven't watched lamp yet. 

I wish to differ. I'd put Dorian Johnson here, he's the fastest puller I've seen this year.

[JoeyFlex5]

3 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

I wish to differ. I'd put Dorian Johnson here, he's the fastest puller I've seen this year.

I keep forgetting he even exists man I've been meaning to watch his tape and I always forget to! 

But when feeney pulls, he does it pretty fast, but the impressive part is how effective he is at the point of attack. You could sell out blitz the RBs with 2 LBs and crash with a 5T and I still believe he could blast that hole wide open lol. He comes in with so much force on his pulls its scary just watching it.

[JoeyFlex5]

3 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

I wish to differ. I'd put Dorian Johnson here, he's the fastest puller I've seen this year.

I keep forgetting he even exists man I've been meaning to watch his tape and I always forget to! 

But when feeney pulls, he does it pretty fast, but the impressive part is how effective he is at the point of attack. You could sell out blitz the RBs with 2 LBs and crash with a 3T and I still believe he could blast that hole wide open lol. He comes in with so much force on his pulls its scary just watching it.

[hn68wb4]

Quenton Nelson is returning for his senior year

http://www.scout.com/college/notre-dame/story/1746030-quenton-nelson-to-return-for-senior-year

[ravensnation5220]

7 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

Quenton Nelson is returning for his senior year

http://www.scout.com/college/notre-dame/story/1746030-quenton-nelson-to-return-for-senior-year

Darn. That sucks. I was really hoping he would leave early

[JoeyFlex5]

9 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

Quenton Nelson is returning for his senior year

http://www.scout.com/college/notre-dame/story/1746030-quenton-nelson-to-return-for-senior-year

That hurts...

[allblackraven]

1 minute ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Darn. That sucks. I was really hoping he would leave early

 

Just now, JoeyFlex5 said:

That hurts...

You two sound like only the Ravens would have drafted him if he declared

[ravensnation5220]

Just now, JoeyFlex5 said:

That hurts...

Hurts the class too. Now Dorian Johnson is most likely gone by our 3rd pick

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, allblackraven said:

 

You two sound like only the Ravens would have drafted him if he declared

That's my guy man. That hurts the possibility of trading back because that's one less quality candidate

[RavensDieHard21]

On January 5, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Adreme said:

A WR, or any pick on offense that isn't center, in any of the first 3 rounds feels like a waste when, even knowing best player available is the best way to draft, they just are not needed.  The Ravens will likely add a veteran WR in free agency so there just won't be room with Wallace and Perriman being the other 2 main WRs.

Basically outside of Center they just need to hunt for defensive playmakers (can always use those) which makes me wonder where will the top centers in the draft likely be going so this pressing need can be knocked out as early as possible?

I agree that we need corners and pass rushers more, but a powerhouse guard can do wonders as well. Wagner isn't guaranteed to be back so we might need Lewis to swing to RT. 

[ravensnation5220]

11 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

I agree that we need corners and pass rushers more, but a powerhouse guard can do wonders as well. Wagner isn't guaranteed to be back so we might need Lewis to swing to RT. 

They like Lewis a lot at gaurd. More so than tackle. I think we need a replacement tackle and a center. 

[berad]

1 hour ago, ravensnation5220 said:

They like Lewis a lot at gaurd. More so than tackle. I think we need a replacement tackle and a center. 

I agree with this. They had the option to put him out at RT in Week 17 after Wagner was out but put Hurst there instead. Lewis was a backup for the game.

It's been the Ravens MO to draft swing tackle/guard players for depth and development but they need to solidify the RT spot if Wagner is gone.

I'll be relying on this thread to see who the good center prospects are. We need someone new for sure.