2017 O line

[RaineV1]

12 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

it depends if you care where on the line they play because i think the upside of cam as an interior olineman is huge whereas i dont see ramczyk as someone who has pro-bowl potential

Yeah, but unless Cam is playing center, then he's going to be a RT for us, not a guard. As for Ramczyk, I think he could be a top ten RT in the league.

Edited March 23 by RaineV1

[rossihunter2]

13 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

Yeah, but unless Cam is playing center, then he's going to be a RT for us, not a guard. As for Ramczyk, I think he could be a top ten RT in the league.

why couldnt he take alex lewis's job at left guard? im a fan of alex lewis but if cam comes in you've got to expect he could upgrade the position...

[AnthonyGames]

I like Alex Lewis better at RT than at LG. He seems like an athletic guy who protect the edge. To me he doesn't seem much like the mauler type at guard, who can open holes for the run game. I think center is number one priority. I remember to the year before when Jensen played LG while KO played LT. Jensen looked amazing at guard - although being next to KO.

[JoeyFlex5]

14 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

Yeah, but unless Cam is playing center, then he's going to be a RT for us, not a guard. As for Ramczyk, I think he could be a top ten RT in the league.

Yanda won't be here forever though. Worst case we have competition for LG and RT between Lewis and cam, whoever plays best gets the respective spot, and we search for a RT in the meantime while we have a potential all pro ready to step in the day yanda retires

[balfan23]

1 hour ago, AnthonyGames said:

I like Alex Lewis better at RT than at LG. He seems like an athletic guy who protect the edge. To me he doesn't seem much like the mauler type at guard, who can open holes for the run game. I think center is number one priority. I remember to the year before when Jensen played LG while KO played LT. Jensen looked amazing at guard - although being next to KO.

I agree - I think Lewis will not only work well at RT, but moving him there should make it easier/cheaper to find a replacement. Fundamentally, guards are cheaper than tackles. 

Unfortunately, Jensen looked anything but amazing last year. Huge disappointment. I honestly was surprised Lewis took what I thought was his job to lose. After seeing him last year, I'm extremely reluctant to see us planning to have him be our starting LG and I'd think the Ravens would be too.

Lost a center, lost an RT and no one has come in to replace. The draft is weak at that position, so it is unlikely that we'd be getting a stud in the 1st round and unlikely that we'll find a late round gem if the overall class is weak. Sure, we might add a camp cut late, but right now this position group is very, very scary. 

[PurpleCity5]

 

20 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

I agree - I think Lewis will not only work well at RT, but moving him there should make it easier/cheaper to find a replacement. Fundamentally, guards are cheaper than tackles. 

Unfortunately, Jensen looked anything but amazing last year. Huge disappointment. I honestly was surprised Lewis took what I thought was his job to lose. After seeing him last year, I'm extremely reluctant to see us planning to have him be our starting LG and I'd think the Ravens would be too.

Lost a center, lost an RT and no one has come in to replace. The draft is weak at that position, so it is unlikely that we'd be getting a stud in the 1st round and unlikely that we'll find a late round gem if the overall class is weak. Sure, we might add a camp cut late, but right now this position group is very, very scary. 

Definitely think we'll need a RT but I think that's where the in-house or late draft pick arrives. The point of emphasis on many OLs is placed on LT, G and C. Many teams that consider themselves to have elite OLs are not that strong at RT. I wouldn't want us to use a 1st on an RT, I would be disappointed if we did that. I doubt Lewis is playing RT either, I think the team just loves him at LG and think he might be a star there. 

Yeah, Center is my biggest concern, I think Zuttah was in for an underwhelming year next year if he was asked to participate in man/gap scheme which is what he's not built for so letting him go just didn't hurt us as much as some are led to believe. I think we hit on a C in the 3rd round honestly. I wouldn't even rule out a trade either. 

[Adreme]

37 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

I agree - I think Lewis will not only work well at RT, but moving him there should make it easier/cheaper to find a replacement. Fundamentally, guards are cheaper than tackles. 

Unfortunately, Jensen looked anything but amazing last year. Huge disappointment. I honestly was surprised Lewis took what I thought was his job to lose. After seeing him last year, I'm extremely reluctant to see us planning to have him be our starting LG and I'd think the Ravens would be too.

Lost a center, lost an RT and no one has come in to replace. The draft is weak at that position, so it is unlikely that we'd be getting a stud in the 1st round and unlikely that we'll find a late round gem if the overall class is weak. Sure, we might add a camp cut late, but right now this position group is very, very scary. 

The Ravens have said he doesn't look good on the right so he isn't going to play RT.  Also you are arguing for a possible upgrade with some flaws to work out (possible because Lewis did look pretty good in his limited time.

Alternatively you take the natural RT who is almost certainly an upgrade because you do not have one on the roster.

[rossihunter2]

43 minutes ago, Adreme said:

The Ravens have said he doesn't look good on the right so he isn't going to play RT.  Also you are arguing for a possible upgrade with some flaws to work out (possible because Lewis did look pretty good in his limited time.

Alternatively you take the natural RT who is almost certainly an upgrade because you do not have one on the roster.

there's no guarantee ramcyzk a natural fit at right tackle either though - if he was a sure fire prospect like that he'd be in the conversation to go top 10 like jack conklin did last year but he's as flawed if not more flawed than every other potential first round lineman and he's the only pure tackle prospect of the ?5?

so if you bring in one of these guards then who's shifting out to right tackle? (or do you make bolles or robinson play right tackle?)

my question is do you take the lesser lineman because they fit slightly better or do you take the better prospects and deal with the right tackle issue later?

i think it's got to be a no brainer that you take the best player and deal with it

[ravensnation5220]

Been looking at the tackles in the draft lately and I honestly really like ramczyk and Bolles. I think they are both athletic enough to play outside and can make the transition over to the right side. Only question is experience but they both played against quality opponents last season and have a nastiness to them. I wouldn't be mad at either at 16 as i think they are the only guys who could realistically be plug and play guys at right tackle. I really think itd be the best choice to make. They both seem very mature as Bolles will be 25 and ramczyk 23 this coming season. 

Not sure how I really feel about Robinson yet. I'm a little skeptical he can transition to the right side. Not so much with the other 2

[rossihunter2]

12 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Been looking at the tackles in the draft lately and I honestly really like ramczyk and Bolles. I think they are both athletic enough to play outside and can make the transition over to the right side. Only question is experience but they both played against quality opponents last season and have a nastiness to them. I wouldn't be mad at either at 16 as i think they are the only guys who could realistically be plug and play guys at right tackle. I really think itd be the best choice to make. They both seem very mature as Bolles will be 25 and ramczyk 23 this coming season. 

Not sure how I really feel about Robinson yet. I'm a little skeptical he can transition to the right side. Not so much with the other 2

i'd feel fine about sorting the position but i'd feel terrible about the level of players we'd be leaving on the board at 16 with either of those guys - including missing out on robinson as a guard prospect (i really think he'll be phenomenal at guard)

[Somerset Ravens]

1 hour ago, Adreme said:

The Ravens have said he doesn't look good on the right so he isn't going to play RT.  Also you are arguing for a possible upgrade with some flaws to work out (possible because Lewis did look pretty good in his limited time.

Alternatively you take the natural RT who is almost certainly an upgrade because you do not have one on the roster.

I am curious who it was from the Ravens said Lewis does not look good at RT. When was it said? 

[berad]

2 minutes ago, Somerset Ravens said:

I am curious who it was from the Ravens said Lewis does not look good at RT. When was it said? 

Jeff Zrebiec has tweeted it before, vaguely saying 'The Ravens feel he looks uncomfortable at RT' or something to that effect

[ravensnation5220]

3 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i'd feel fine about sorting the position but i'd feel terrible about the level of players we'd be leaving on the board at 16 with either of those guys - including missing out on robinson as a guard prospect (i really think he'll be phenomenal at guard)

Ya but we really don't have room for him at gaurd. Lewis and yams are our guards and I wouldn't kick either out to tackle. We've already said Lewis doesn't look comfortable at tackle. Lamp is the only guy I'd take for an interior line position because of his ability to play any position on the Oline. 

I just really like Bolles and ramczyk. Especially if they transition to the right. Of course this depends how the board shakes out. But considering we have a glaring hole at right tackle and not many plug and play players available at that position while other positions of need seem to have good depth in this class. Seems like the smart choice. And the right choice to make. Especially if we want to have a great offensive line. The only way to do that is by taking cam, Bolles or ramczyk for our right tackle spot. 

[Somerset Ravens]

5 minutes ago, berad said:

Jeff Zrebiec has tweeted it before, vaguely saying 'The Ravens feel he looks uncomfortable at RT' or something to that effect

Thanks

[RaineV1]

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

there's no guarantee ramcyzk a natural fit at right tackle either though - if he was a sure fire prospect like that he'd be in the conversation to go top 10 like jack conklin did last year but he's as flawed if not more flawed than every other potential first round lineman and he's the only pure tackle prospect of the ?5?

so if you bring in one of these guards then who's shifting out to right tackle? (or do you make bolles or robinson play right tackle?)

my question is do you take the lesser lineman because they fit slightly better or do you take the better prospects and deal with the right tackle issue later?

i think it's got to be a no brainer that you take the best player and deal with it

I wouldn't call them lesser lineman though. They're better tackles and Cam is the better guard. We need a tackle, so we take the potentially great tackle rather than the potentially great guard.

[rossihunter2]

1 minute ago, RaineV1 said:

I wouldn't call them lesser lineman though. They're better tackles and Cam is the better guard. We need a tackle, so we take the potentially great tackle rather than the potentially great guard.

i guess i just see different ceilings - i see a potential solid starter vs a potential probowl guard

54 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Ya but we really don't have room for him at gaurd. Lewis and yams are our guards and I wouldn't kick either out to tackle. We've already said Lewis doesn't look comfortable at tackle. Lamp is the only guy I'd take for an interior line position because of his ability to play any position on the Oline. 

I just really like Bolles and ramczyk. Especially if they transition to the right. Of course this depends how the board shakes out. But considering we have a glaring hole at right tackle and not many plug and play players available at that position while other positions of need seem to have good depth in this class. Seems like the smart choice. And the right choice to make. Especially if we want to have a great offensive line. The only way to do that is by taking cam, Bolles or ramczyk for our right tackle spot. 

as much as i like lewis he's not the perfect guard at this point - the ravens wont pass on robinson just because they have lewis - they will take the BPA and ramczyk and bolles are reaches at 16 for me given i have them towards the back end of the first round on my big board - there is a reason this is a bad oline draft class and its because there arent many good linemen worth high picks or depth - i envision no way that bolles or ramczyk are the BPA at 16

[Adreme]

7 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

there's no guarantee ramcyzk a natural fit at right tackle either though - if he was a sure fire prospect like that he'd be in the conversation to go top 10 like jack conklin did last year but he's as flawed if not more flawed than every other potential first round lineman and he's the only pure tackle prospect of the ?5?

so if you bring in one of these guards then who's shifting out to right tackle? (or do you make bolles or robinson play right tackle?)

my question is do you take the lesser lineman because they fit slightly better or do you take the better prospects and deal with the right tackle issue later?

i think it's got to be a no brainer that you take the best player and deal with it

If you do not think he is the better RT than he is not the better prospect.  The Ravens believe both their guards (obviously Yanda but they seem to believe Lewis will be that as well) are probably bowl level guards and Lewis is not moving to the right.  So the only reason you draft Robinson is you either think he is the best RT prospect or you want to move Yanda over. 

Anything else leaves you even in the best case with pro bowl level talent on the bench and a hole at RT.

Edited March 24 by Adreme

[rossihunter2]

3 minutes ago, Adreme said:

If you do not think he is the better RT than he is not the better prospect.  The Ravens believe both their guards (obviously Yanda but they seem to believe Lewis will be that as well) are probably bowl level guards and Lewis is not moving to the right.  So the only reason you draft Robinson is you either think he is the best RT prospect or you want to move Yanda over. 

Anything else leaves you eveneed in the best case with proper bowl level talent on the bench and a hole at RT.

i dont understand this as an argument - the ravens dont draft for need (when a BPA fits the need it's great but they dont always do it)

lewis is great and all but he's not proven himself to be a probowl type lineman so if robinson were to come in that doesnt preclude him from winning the job at guard over lewis - we'll pick the player and worry about lewis later - i like him but he hasnt proven himself unbenchable at this point - i see no way that ramzyck or bolles are worth a top 20 pick (or maybe even top 25) either whereas i think cam as a guard is worth a high pick - no one here would complain if we brought in one of the top safeties despite having two starters entrenched already and no one would complain if we brought in barnett because judon's here already - now im not saying cam is quite as good a prospect as hooker/adams/barnett but i dont think he's got probowl potential which is hard to pass on - hell we were gonna potentially take zach martin in 2014 despite having KO and Yanda before the cowboys took him just ahead of us

[Adreme]

24 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i dont understand this as an argument - the ravens dont draft for need (when a BPA fits the need it's great but they dont always do it)

lewis is great and all but he's not proven himself to be a probowl type lineman so if robinson were to come in that doesnt preclude him from winning the job at guard over lewis - we'll pick the player and worry about lewis later - i like him but he hasnt proven himself unbenchable at this point - i see no way that ramzyck or bolles are worth a top 20 pick (or maybe even top 25) either whereas i think cam as a guard is worth a high pick - no one here would complain if we brought in one of the top safeties despite having two starters entrenched already and no one would complain if we brought in barnett because judon's here already - now im not saying cam is quite as good a prospect as hooker/adams/barnett but i dont think he's got probowl potential which is hard to pass on - hell we were gonna potentially take zach martin in 2014 despite having KO and Yanda before the cowboys took him just ahead of us

No one would complain about Barnett because Suggs is on his way out, Judon is nothe being talked about as an every down player and unlike with Lewis they are not talking about Judon in the same way they spoke of KO which means there is a very real chance your 1st round pick doesn't see the field for 3 years.  

BPA always comes with the qualifier that you are able to use them. Corner, LB, Dline, Center, RT, WR, and even TE are all positions where you can easily upgrade and not have to worry about if there is room on the field so why pick one of the only positions where that isn't the case.

[ravensnation5220]

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

i guess i just see different ceilings - i see a potential solid starter vs a potential probowl guard

as much as i like lewis he's not the perfect guard at this point - the ravens wont pass on robinson just because they have lewis - they will take the BPA and ramczyk and bolles are reaches at 16 for me given i have them towards the back end of the first round on my big board - there is a reason this is a bad oline draft class and its because there arent many good linemen worth high picks or depth - i envision no way that bolles or ramczyk are the BPA at 16

There's really no point to taking a guard at 16. 

Why don't you like Bolles or ramczyk. They're tape is great. I think there are questions with experience and maybe some strength issues for Bolles and ramczyks arms aren't that long but they both look great on tape. And both are high character guys in my eyes at least. Wouldn't it be ok to reach for an RT after so many people have overlayed for one and there doesn't seem to be an in house option or one in free agency. I mean I can see both as top 20 picks and wouldnt have an issue with it. They've both been consistently mocked to the Broncos at 20 and in a draft class like this that's still good value. I just don't see any better options elsewhere when we've said we want to make oline a priority this season and we need to protect Joe and get a running game going. They both fit our scheme extremely well. 

[hn68wb4]

46 minutes ago, Adreme said:

If you do not think he is the better RT than he is not the better prospect.  The Ravens believe both their guards (obviously Yanda but they seem to believe Lewis will be that as well) are probably bowl level guards and Lewis is not moving to the right.  So the only reason you draft Robinson is you either think he is the best RT prospect or you want to move Yanda over. 

Anything else leaves you eveneed in the best case with proper bowl level talent on the bench and a hole at RT.

I keep hearing people assert this, but you can't at all say that based off of one single tweet that he was uncomfortable at RT at the end of the season, coming off a high ankle sprain having played on the left side all season - of course he was uncomfortable, not every olineman is Yanda and can make a seamless transition at a moments notice. With an offseason of prep it's a non-issue and people are acting as if that tweet is the big proof that he won't move under any circumstances. Come on man, one tweet given the circumstances of his trial at RT, literally the last game of season with all of the other problems, that tweet is effectively meaningless as it pertains to next season.

As far as Robinson goes, as solid as Lewis became as the season went on (btw many seem to forget that early in the season he was really struggling in the run blocking department, from the start he was a good pass protector but his run blocking was sketchy until the two post-bye games that he played) Robinson would be an upgrade at guard and is a far better fit for the "mauler" type we want compared to Lewis, who again is a natural pass protector. As far as the tape goes, everything points to Lewis being a natural OT - frame, good movement/footwork, technician of a blocker with sketchy strength, strong pass protector, etc. - and Robinson being a natural OG - mauler mentality, footwork issues at OT, strong run blocker, size, etc.

Edited March 23 by hn68wb4

[ravensnation5220]

29 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i dont understand this as an argument - the ravens dont draft for need (when a BPA fits the need it's great but they dont always do it)

The whole BPA thing is a little overblown in my eyes. Yes it comes into account but if BPA is a qb we obviously won't go there. It also depends on positions. Pass rushers qbs and tackles are all valued higher than a running back or a receiver and that has been the case now for a long time in the NFL. If we have a player who is in our top 10 on our board then that's an easy choice. However if we have players on our board still available and they rank 13. 14. 15. And some fill areas of need more than others than I think we'd go that route. Who's to say we don't have ramczyk ranked above Mike Williams because they value a T more than a WR or maybe they think Williams is a one trick pony and dont like the way he interviews compared to ramczyk who could potentially solidify our offensive line. He was graded as the best run blocking tackle in college and only gave up 1 sack and 9 pressures.(he played vs taco, Sam Hubbard and ardon key) this tackle class is weak but more because there aren't any top 10 guys and there's no depth. Doesn't mean Bolles or ramczyk shown be first rounders even in a good class

[rossihunter2]

2 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Yes it comes into account but if BPA is a qb we obviously won't go there.

need obviously comes into BPA - the ravens probably wont have anything higher than a day 3 grade on any of the qbs (maybe 3rd round if they really like a guy) - but just because need obviously comes into it doesn't necessitate the ravens always drafting solely for need, in fact that will very rarely happen - need is inherently part of BPA - it is already taken into account - but it is not the most significant part which is sometimes what people don't understand

2 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

If we have a player who is in our top 10 on our board then that's an easy choice. However if we have players on our board still available and they rank 13. 14. 15. And some fill areas of need more than others than I think we'd go that route.

it's about tiers of value not just what number they appear on the board - in terms of talent i have evaluated cam robinson as being in the tier above all the other linemen (except maybe lamp, but that's not important in this situation because he also projects as a guard) - the tier will always come ahead of straight need because need will already be involved in calculating what tier a prospect will be in - need is likely a qualifier for differentiating between prospects within a tier (of course it will be taken into account in terms of importance as well as maybe moving prospects up and down tiers) - this is my main problem with taking ramcyzk, bolles or even feeney over robinson: i think the gulf in talent is quite large - robinson has a much higher ceiling than feeney and ramcyzk and a much higher floor than bolles and ramcyzk (to put it simply)

2 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Who's to say we don't have ramczyk ranked above Mike Williams because they value a T more than a WR or maybe they think Williams is a one trick pony and dont like the way he interviews compared to ramczyk who could potentially solidify our offensive line

the ravens never draft to fill spots, although it sometimes works out that way, so it will be dependent on their board - but in any case, id find it very difficult to believe they think williams is a one trick pony or they value a tackle more - both are similarly positions of need and williams has demonstrated a larger amount of talent for longer - everything williams has put on film and out in the media suggests he should be much higher than ramcyzk - so unless williams has absolutely bombed interviews and made himself impossible to work with (because even a bad interview wouldnt change what he's put on tape) and ramcyzk has hypnotised the guys in that interview room then i dont see a way that they would put these two in the same tier of talent on the big board

[ravensnation5220]

@rossihunter2 good post. I guess I just really like what I've seen on tape from ramczyk and Bolles. I think itd be great to trade back and grab one of them. As long as nobody great falls to 16 which will probably happen anyways. I'm just worried what we do to fill that RT spot. 

[RaineV1]

5 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

i dont understand this as an argument - the ravens dont draft for need (when a BPA fits the need it's great but they dont always do it)

 

This isn't true. Not entirely. The Ravens take the best player available at a position of need. Even in Mosley's case it was the Ravens knowing that they would need a franchise ILB within the next year and him being better than anyone  they could get the next draft. Slightly improving guard in the first round while ignoring gigantic holes elsewhere should only be done if the guy is going to be hall of fame caliber or at least top five in the league at his position. He could potentially become a probowl level, but I don't think he'd reach that that high on the guard rankings in the league. Thus it wouldn't be a good pick. Especially when we could get an interior guy like Elflien in the 2nd or Isaac Isiata in the third. Or trade back for Lamp.

Edited March 24 by RaineV1

[rossihunter2]

34 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

This isn't true. Not entirely. The Ravens take the best player available at a position of need. Even in Mosley's case it was the Ravens knowing that they would need a franchise ILB within the next year and him being better than anyone  they could get the next draft. Slightly improving guard in the first round while ignoring gigantic holes elsewhere should only be done if the guy is going to be hall of fame caliber or at least top five in the league at his position. He could potentially become a probowl level, but I don't think he'd reach that that high on the guard rankings in the league. Thus it wouldn't be a good pick. Especially when we could get an interior guy like Elflien in the 2nd or Isaac Isiata in the third. Or trade back for Lamp.

i think you misunderstand me slightly - need is part of the BPA calculation - all i mean by that comment is the need doesnt innately affect the position of prospects on the ravens board because it's already taken into account and therefore the ravens are always going to follow BPA because its their own symbiotic creation that pre-weighs need, talent and value

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, ravensnation5220 said:

@rossihunter2 good post. I guess I just really like what I've seen on tape from ramczyk and Bolles. I think itd be great to trade back and grab one of them. As long as nobody great falls to 16 which will probably happen anyways. I'm just worried what we do to fill that RT spot. 

oh im worried too but of all the positions to be worried about, the ravens always seem to find ways to fill RT and ILB - i dont know how they'll do it, and you may be right and they do bring in ramcyzk (although id be surprised) but they have to play someone there so theyll bring someone in or itll be someone on the roster already - im kind of excited about it being an unknown guy like wagner was though

[RaineV1]

23 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

oh im worried too but of all the positions to be worried about, the ravens always seem to find ways to fill RT and ILB - i dont know how they'll do it, and you may be right and they do bring in ramcyzk (although id be surprised) but they have to play someone there so theyll bring someone in or itll be someone on the roster already - im kind of excited about it being an unknown guy like wagner was though

Knowing the Ravens' history it'll probably end up being some undrafted RT that becomes our starter, and does pretty well.

[rossihunter2]

16 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

Knowing the Ravens' history it'll probably end up being some undrafted RT that becomes our starter, and does pretty well.

we have intriguing guys at the moment - guys we are more hopeful about than expectant and yet that somehow feels liberating lol - although i freely acknowledge that this is a highly purple-tinted point of view

[rossihunter2]

Man just listening to Stephen nembot really makes me want him to win the right tackle job