2017 O line

[JO_75]

On 3/20/2017 at 4:55 AM, Bruce_Almty said:

ICYMI.

There's an interesting article over on Ravens Beatdown, Ravens will take an OT with the first pick in the 2017 draft , discussing the financial benefits of drafting a ROT (Ramcyzk, Bolles, Robinson)  in light of the Ricky Wagner // Riley Reiff $10mil/yr FA hauls. He goes on to suggest a Pat Elflein/Ethan Pocic center selection in the 3rd giving the Ravens a dominating, young and inexpensive O-line for the next few years given the Stanley // Lewis selections of last. The other 2 top 100 picks are devoted to edge rusher // CB // WR needs. 

Post your thoughts below.

Walter Football's Charlie Campbell is now reporting that we are high on Cam Robinson and have him rated as the number one OT in the draft.

[Ravenskid52752]

1 hour ago, JO_75 said:

Walter Football's Charlie Campbell is now reporting that we are high on Cam Robinson and have him rated as the number one OT in the draft.

Just seen this too wouldn't be surprised if they did take him. Cam and Ronnie for the next 4 years together could be huge 

Edited March 21 by Ravenskid52752

[raven94]

5 minutes ago, Ravenskid52752 said:

Just seen this too wouldn't be surprised if they did take him. Can and Ronnie for the next 4 years together could be huge 

I agree. But there are some on these boards who think Cam would be an ok tackle, but a terrific guard and so some people on these boards say draft him but draft him as a guard not a tackle. They have a valid point, sometimes on the edge Cam doesn't have the necessary kick step to deal with defenders, and therefore he has a habit of abandoning any technique and just running around using his limbs to push guys away from the pocket. He does this against Barnett in the Tennessee game. And there are occasions where Cam stops driving his feet in the run game.

I will point out however that while Bama can recruit with unholy success they struggle to develop their OT's and so I believe that Cam could come in and polish up and be an outstanding tackle especially on the right side where expectations are lower. Also Cam moves well in space and so I think zone stretch plays, tosses, screens and really just about any outside run play would be a go to run play with him at RT. Furthermore he's played through injuries in previous years, and has shown good durability, not to mention when given the opportunity to finish a run play he will gladly do so.

I have high hopes for Cam. However this is no ordinary draft class and I can't justify taking him at 16 simply because he's not a sure thing, with just one too many question marks that need to be looked at. 

[Ravenskid52752]

13 minutes ago, raven94 said:

I agree. But there are some on these boards who think Cam would be an ok tackle, but a terrific guard and so some people on these boards say draft him but draft him as a guard not a tackle. They have a valid point, sometimes on the edge Cam doesn't have the necessary kick step to deal with defenders, and therefore he has a habit of abandoning any technique and just running around using his limbs to push guys away from the pocket. He does this against Barnett in the Tennessee game. And there are occasions where Cam stops driving his feet in the run game.

I will point out however that while Bama can recruit with unholy success they struggle to develop their OT's and so I believe that Cam could come in and polish up and be an outstanding tackle especially on the right side where expectations are lower. Also Cam moves well in space and so I think zone stretch plays, tosses, screens and really just about any outside run play would be a go to run play with him at RT. Furthermore he's played through injuries in previous years, and has shown good durability, not to mention when given the opportunity to finish a run play he will gladly do so.

I have high hopes for Cam. However this is no ordinary draft class and I can't justify taking him at 16 simply because he's not a sure thing, with just one too many question marks that need to be looked at. 

I think he can be great RT if he gets coached up and him playing next to yanda would do wonders for him. I know he's not a Sure thing and other players are but I would be mad or upset at them for taking him because I would get it they want to build a strong O-line 

[JoeyFlex5]

Cams issues at RT seem coachable. It's a consistency thing, he has a tendency to take way too shallow of a first step at completely random times. Reps and some good drilling from coaches could fix that easily. Hopefully he can also be coached out of his tendency to chase blocks in pass pro and turning his shoulders too early and lunging at guys. He just has the run block mentality on every snap it seems. If he fixes that he will be pretty solid as a pass protecting RT but having that kind of mauler on the edge is a HUGE advantage.

[Jacquouille]

1 hour ago, JO_75 said:

Walter Football's Charlie Campbell is now reporting that we are high on Cam Robinson and have him rated as the number one OT in the draft.

Not to be the negative Nancy, but it doesn't really mean a lot...

[JoeyFlex5]

2 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Not to be the negative Nancy, but it doesn't really mean a lot...

Charlie has been astoundingly accurate with us though. He may legitimately get good insider info about some teams, the ravens being one. That's why it bugged me so bad that he had us taking ANY rb in the 2nd no matter who they were. For like 3 months straight he had us taking the top rb available at 48

[jboy19]

I'm not high on Robinson at all, but I don't know how I could exist in a world where Ereck Flowers is a top 10 pick and Cam Robinson isn't. Would genuinely confuse me. 

[ravensnation5220]

32 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Cams issues at RT seem coachable. It's a consistency thing, he has a tendency to take way too shallow of a first step at completely random times. Reps and some good drilling from coaches could fix that easily. Hopefully he can also be coached out of his tendency to chase blocks in pass pro and turning his shoulders too early and lunging at guys. He just has the run block mentality on every snap it seems. If he fixes that he will be pretty solid as a pass protecting RT but having that kind of mauler on the edge is a HUGE advantage.

I totally agree. A lot of his problems are just being consistent in his technique.

However it seemed to show up really often against Derek Barnett. It's as if cam have Barnett the outside every single time

One issue I have with Robinson that I'm not sure can be fixed are his balance issues. 

[rossihunter2]

38 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Cams issues at RT seem coachable. It's a consistency thing, he has a tendency to take way too shallow of a first step at completely random times. Reps and some good drilling from coaches could fix that easily. Hopefully he can also be coached out of his tendency to chase blocks in pass pro and turning his shoulders too early and lunging at guys. He just has the run block mentality on every snap it seems. If he fixes that he will be pretty solid as a pass protecting RT but having that kind of mauler on the edge is a HUGE advantage.

i hate that first kickstep - while its coachable its a really bad habit that i can see him falling on under pressure from speed off the edge - but i will admit that the idea of him and yanda mauling defenders on the right side off the LOS in the run game is an exciting thought - but i dunno - i still think he projects better as a guard and can be legitimately dominant there

Edited March 21 by rossihunter2

[JoeyFlex5]

3 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I totally agree. A lot of his problems are just being consistent in his technique.

However it seemed to show up really often against Derek Barnett. It's as if cam have Barnett the outside every single time

One issue I have with Robinson that I'm not sure can be fixed are his balance issues. 

I think his balance slip ups stem from the kickstep really, he falls behind and panics and overextends, also he gets caught reaching to engage and straying from the course of a proper backpedal, he basically lunges and chases blocks which will lead to a lot of stumbles. 

Also derek Barnett is just an elite rusher, dude was in a league of his own and side by side with Garrett I'm almost offended that Garrett is so much more highly rated. Also I think Alabama game planned that way a bit, they strayed away from Barnett so much that they just wanted cam to buy time, don't give him the inside so hurts has time to dump off.

[ravensnation5220]

3 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I think his balance slip ups stem from the kickstep really, he falls behind and panics and overextends, also he gets caught reaching to engage and straying from the course of a proper backpedal, he basically lunges and chases blocks which will lead to a lot of stumbles. 

Also derek Barnett is just an elite rusher, dude was in a league of his own and side by side with Garrett I'm almost offended that Garrett is so much more highly rated. Also I think Alabama game planned that way a bit, they strayed away from Barnett so much that they just wanted cam to buy time, don't give him the inside so hurts has time to dump off.

Ya I always noticed Barnetts numbers matched up with Garretts dating back to last year. Was always surprised Barnett was always so overlooked

[JoeyFlex5]

4 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Ya I always noticed Barnetts numbers matched up with Garretts dating back to last year. Was always surprised Barnett was always so overlooked

I hated Barnett last year because he was a really poor tackler, but he seems to have cleaned that up

[rossihunter2]

11 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Also derek Barnett is just an elite rusher, dude was in a league of his own and side by side with Garrett I'm almost offended that Garrett is so much more highly rated.

i have garrett top of the board but barnett 4th - i agree that its really close in my eyes as to who's the better edge rusher - garrett obviously edges it as a prospect because he has historic athleticism

[JoeyFlex5]

8 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i have garrett top of the board but barnett 4th - i agree that its really close in my eyes as to who's the better edge rusher - garrett obviously edges it as a prospect because he has historic athleticism

That's really the difference here. I'll even venture to say barnetts rookie year tops garretts.

[Jacquouille]

57 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Charlie has been astoundingly accurate with us though. He may legitimately get good insider info about some teams, the ravens being one. That's why it bugged me so bad that he had us taking ANY rb in the 2nd no matter who they were. For like 3 months straight he had us taking the top rb available at 48

Oh, I was talking about the "best OT in the class" label, which is like being the tallest midget in this draft class, not arguing with Walt's int which sounds pretty fair.

Robinson is growing on me but I'm still debating wether it wouldn't be better to just take a RT in the 3rd or 4th and develop him like every OLinemen we have had.

[Jacquouille]

13 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I hated Barnett last year because he was a really poor tackler, but he seems to have cleaned that up

Not the only area where he improved tremendously though. His speed to power conversion and his array of moves come to mind but I really didn't see the same player in 2015 and 2016.

[raven94]

11 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Oh, I was talking about the "best OT in the class" label, which is like being the tallest midget in this draft class, not arguing with Walt's int which sounds pretty fair.

Robinson is growing on me but I'm still debating wether it wouldn't be better to just take a RT in the 3rd or 4th and develop him like every OLinemen we have had.

This is what I'd like to do. Because there aren't any really dominant tackles this year. They all have lots of flaws. I feel like the difference between robinson in the first and say Moton in the 2nd or 3rd isn't that big of a difference

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I actually don't hate the idea of Cam being our first pick so long as it means we find a trade back partner and can pick up an extra 2 or multiple picks in rds 2-4. 

Especially if the truly can't miss guys are off the board.

Cam in the 1st and then we could two of Sid Jones, Wilson, Tabor, Conley, Zay Jones, Cooper Kupp, Dion Dawkins, Dan Feeney, Tanoh, maybe if T Williams falls, Ryan Anderson, etc.... in the 2nd.

Grab Elflein in the 3rd and I think we'd be set up for a stellar draft from there. 

[rossihunter2]

1 minute ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I actually don't hate the idea of Cam being our first pick so long as it means we find a trade back partner and can pick up an extra 2 or multiple picks in rds 2-4. 

Especially if the truly can't miss guys are off the board.

Cam in the 1st and then we could two of Sid Jones, Wilson, Tabor, Conley, Zay Jones, Cooper Kupp, Dion Dawkins, Dan Feeney, Tanoh, maybe if T Williams falls, Ryan Anderson, etc.... in the 2nd.

Grab Elflein in the 3rd and I think we'd be set up for a stellar draft from there. 

im not sure id even need us to trade back to be happy with cam

i think he's one of 5 players we will pick at 16 (im assuming that at least 1 of them will be there) - barnett, davis, williams, williams, robinson - i think the pick is going to be one of these guys (i guess you could throw in marlon humphrey as a flyer but i feel pretty confident he's not the pick at 16) but the order on the board is what im unsure of - i have every single one of those guys in the top 12 on my board (robinson would drop 3-4 places if we were drafting him solely as a tackle not as a guard - not sure what the likelihood is either way and tim williams would drop obviously if it came out that those failed drugs tests are more recent than we thought or reports come out that he interviewed badly/is immature etc.)

cam is the only lineman id take in the top 16 though

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

40 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

im not sure id even need us to trade back to be happy with cam

i think he's one of 5 players we will pick at 16 (im assuming that at least 1 of them will be there) - barnett, davis, williams, williams, robinson - i think the pick is going to be one of these guys (i guess you could throw in marlon humphrey as a flyer but i feel pretty confident he's not the pick at 16) but the order on the board is what im unsure of - i have every single one of those guys in the top 12 on my board (robinson would drop 3-4 places if we were drafting him solely as a tackle not as a guard - not sure what the likelihood is either way and tim williams would drop obviously if it came out that those failed drugs tests are more recent than we thought or reports come out that he interviewed badly/is immature etc.)

cam is the only lineman id take in the top 16 though

Closer we get to draft I have almost no faith Barnett or either WR is going to be there. 

Would love Tim Williams but again if he's available that might indicate a slide. 

I just think Cam would still be available at 19 or so. I think Philly takes Cook or McCaffery and Wash could have interest in the other... so I could potentially see TB wanting to leap frog Wash to get the other RB.

Or if the Titans don't go WR earlier they could want to leap frog Wash if they both like Ross. 

If either were possibilities and we could pick up a 2nd or 3rd and 4th.... I'd be all over that. On principal it'd make me feel better bc I have a feeling Cam would be available in the 20's. 

[ravensnation5220]

3 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

Not the only area where he improved tremendously though. His speed to power conversion and his array of moves come to mind but I really didn't see the same player in 2015 and 2016.

Maybe not the same player as far as technique but I always saw a violent, high motor guy who just seems to find ways to the qb. It wasn't always pretty early in his career but he got the job done most of the time and that's all I needed to see. He was a consistent 10+ sack guy already and 2016 just cemented him as my favourite prospect for me

[jboy19]

I still need someone to explain to me why Cam Robinson is being considered good. 

[JO_75]

I figured OL would be the pick in the first after Zuttah was traded but trading down to take Lamp unless we were confident in his skills to take him at 16. Robinson wouldn't be bad but much rather wait on a better OT class to find our book end to Stanley. 

Just find a veteran or trade for one that can man down the RT spot until a better class comes along. Like the approach of taking the Dallas route but wait for a better class which I think 2018 is.

[ellicottraven]

There's a lot of chatter that the Ravens are really high on Cam Robinson and may select him at #16. Back to back tackles. I don't think it's a terrible idea actually considering the depth available at other need positions. Here's a link to Walter football rumors.

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill

[JoeyFlex5]

8 hours ago, jboy19 said:

I still need someone to explain to me why Cam Robinson is being considered good. 

Elite guard prospect with room to develop into a RT. His problems in pass pro look fixable, he shows good back pedaling and he has a powerful punch when he engages, and when he gets hands on the rusher it's over. His issues come from his tendency to misfire on his backpedal and fall behind, and it's only an occasional thing, which leads me and other to think that good coaches getting him reps should fix that problem pretty easily. Aside from that, he's the most powerful drive blocker in the class, he fires out of his stance low and strikes upwards with his arms and drives from his hips, he packs a lot of power on his get-off and wins the snap immediately, getting his man off balance and following up by driving his man deep off the line. 

Theres good and bad with cam, the good should outweigh the bad by quite a bit assuming that he develops that consistency he's lacking in his footwork in pass pro. If he's a big dummy like Michael oher and can't progress at all then he is gonna be a liability at RT but should still make a hell of a guard.

[Edgar]

In addition to being a physical grinding run blocker, Cam is very athletic on the move and finding peripheral and second level blocks.

Sounds like an all pro guard but I believe he can more than hold his own at either tackle spot. I prefer him at guard, then RT, then LT.

In any case, many are discounting the value he brings in terms of upside and versatility. The same, to a lesser degree can be said about Alex Lewis.

Lewis, Yanda, Elflein, Robinson, Stanley .....this could be absolutely a dominant, versatile, group for years.

I also like Toth at center and he could be had in the fifth round though he lacks Elfleins versatility.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

9 hours ago, Edgar said:

In addition to being a physical grinding run blocker, Cam is very athletic on the move and finding peripheral and second level blocks.

Sounds like an all pro guard but I believe he can more than hold his own at either tackle spot. I prefer him at guard, then RT, then LT.

In any case, many are discounting the value he brings in terms of upside and versatility. The same, to a lesser degree can be said about Alex Lewis.

Lewis, Yanda, Elflein, Robinson, Stanley .....this could be absolutely a dominant, versatile, group for years.

I also like Toth at center and he could be had in the fifth round though he lacks Elfleins versatility.

Yea I've seen a lot of ppl overlook Toth but I actually like him 2nd in terms of pure C prospects for us. 

I don't know that Pocic would be a good fit here with his height, and he's not a physical run blocker. Could see big DTs getting underneath him and knocking him off balance all day. 

[RaineV1]

If the Ravens go OT in the first round, I'd really prefer Ramczyk over Robinson. He's a far more natural fit at tackle on the NFL level than Cam will be. Granted, I don't want to go OT in the first either way, but if we are I'd rather have the sure prospect over the guy with a lot of "coachable" bad habits.

[rossihunter2]

34 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

If the Ravens go OT in the first round, I'd really prefer Ramczyk over Robinson. He's a far more natural fit at tackle on the NFL level than Cam will be. Granted, I don't want to go OT in the first either way, but if we are I'd rather have the sure prospect over the guy with a lot of "coachable" bad habits.

it depends if you care where on the line they play because i think the upside of cam as an interior olineman is huge whereas i dont see ramczyk as someone who has pro-bowl potential