2017 O line

[purpletide]

2 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Yeah don't get the talk of moving Yanda to RT, I mean Yanda is decent there but he is so much more valuable at Guard.

Plus Lewis is young, he can learn to play T if there's really no other option and stay there in the future.

[rossihunter2]

31 minutes ago, purpletide said:

Plus Lewis is young, he can learn to play T if there's really no other option and stay there in the future.

i think lewis's problem is more that it's a switch of sides than a switch to tackle because he did ok covering for ronnie stanley for those 4 games at left tackle

[purpletide]

4 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i think lewis's problem is more that it's a switch of sides than a switch to tackle because he did ok covering for ronnie stanley for those 4 games at left tackle

True. Nonetheless we'll see how the draft goes and adjust accordingly. I think Lewis can do it given time to adjust.

[jboy19]

2 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

i think the thing here is he doesnt project as a tackle for me - i think he's a guard and i think he could be a pro-bowl type guard

I'd be too worried about his struggles vs inside moves and questionable instincts to play him at guard. 

[ravensnation5220]

2 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

absolutely no way - why move your all-pro guard to tackle - by doing that you make two positions worse rather than just one - and you cant have lamp at right tackle, his footwork isnt good enough and his arms arent long enough

 

2 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

Yeah don't get the talk of moving Yanda to RT, I mean Yanda is decent there but he is so much more valuable at Guard.

True. Good points. I just thought it was an option worth considering especially since there aren't many good tackles in this class

[purpletide]

8 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

 

True. Good points. I just thought it was an option worth considering especially since there aren't many good tackles in this class

I still think Lewis can make the move

[ravensnick]

On 11/20/2016 at 4:46 AM, ALPHA said:

I can't speak on anyone else I just like bouncing ideas around and yes some of them are going to be longshots or unpopular but we're not all going to agree on everything, I got roasted for saying Conklin and Whitehair were the best linemen in the draft (and they are). Anyways no harm, no foul, you're still one of my favorite posters.

Neither one plays LT, so I'm going to have to slightly disagree. Ricky Wagner might be one of the best RTs in the game, but I'd still rank most starting LTs above him.

[ravensnick]

3 hours ago, purpletide said:

Plus Lewis is young, he can learn to play T if there's really no other option and stay there in the future.

Plus Lewis played LT in college

[purpletide]

3 minutes ago, ravensnick said:

Plus Lewis played LT in college

Legit forgot about that while posting. Learning to play RT at a pro level would be more accurate. I think even though we'd like to keep him at guard that's not solid evidence that he's stuck there, as @rossihunter2 said he filled in for Stanley just fine, flipping sides is what we're hesitant to do.

[rossihunter2]

28 minutes ago, purpletide said:

Legit forgot about that while posting. Learning to play RT at a pro level would be more accurate. I think even though we'd like to keep him at guard that's not solid evidence that he's stuck there, as @rossihunter2 said he filled in for Stanley just fine, flipping sides is what we're hesitant to do.

yeah you look at tunsil and ogden and they were protected by playing guard not by playing right tackle - the change of sides is an underrated difficult thing to do for a lineman - that's why what yanda did later in the season this year was so astounding (beyond just the injury)

1 hour ago, jboy19 said:

I'd be too worried about his struggles vs inside moves and questionable instincts to play him at guard. 

from what ive seen his struggles vs inside moves come from how much space he has to cover especially against faster edge rushers - he gives a weak and hard kick step out but essentially over pursues and leaves the inside open but that's not a problem when there isnt any space for him to be beaten with speed and once he gets hands on its over for a rusher (when run blocking i wish he'd finish his blocks more often but hes dominant when he gets his hands on the defender when pass protecting) - put cam in a phonebooth where speed will either be less present or less important and let him run over defenders or manhandle them in pass pro - he'd also have the benefit of playing next to a left tackle who has great feet and covers space well

id be much more worried about cam as a tackle than at guard and i like him probably more than any of the other linemen at this point at guard - early on i was a fan of feeney and lamp (and bolles to a certain extent) but the more film ive watched of cam the more sure i feel that he will be a probowl calibre guard at the next level - i felt that way about zach martin, brandon scherff (although ill admit that was a more obvious conversion), joel bitonio (who surprised me with how quickly he converted)... i just think cam is perfect in small areas where he cant be beaten with speed to the edge which wont be a problem as a guard - most of the times i saw him beat to the inside was when hed been set up by speed rushes to the outside e.g. derek barnett absolutely killed him vs Tennessee but i dont see that as a problem when you limit the space the defender has to beat him in

[raven94]

Has anyone considered taking Cam Robinson and putting him at right tackle? I don't know if that scenario has come up at all yet on this thread (correct me if I'm wrong). I think he has great gaurd ability and can be a KO clone, but I also feel like he can be put at right tackle and do fine. He wouldn't see too many of the great pass rushers over there and he and Yanda would make for a terrific run blocking tandem.

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, raven94 said:

Has anyone considered taking Cam Robinson and putting him at right tackle? I don't know if that scenario has come up at all yet on this thread (correct me if I'm wrong). I think he has great gaurd ability and can be a KO clone, but I also feel like he can be put at right tackle and do fine. He wouldn't see too many of the great pass rushers over there and he and Yanda would make for a terrific run blocking tandem.

he'd probably be ok as a right tackle as long as we dont get too fancy with blocking schemes and maybe help chip with a tight end going down the seam or something - that way he's probably up against more power rushers than speed guys (although tbh once you get to the nfl that doesn really matter) - he'll be functional as a right tackle and probably not a trainwreck - i just think the opportunity cost of not playing him at guard is too big to play him at tackle because of how powerful he is

[raven94]

13 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

he'd probably be ok as a right tackle as long as we dont get too fancy with blocking schemes and maybe help chip with a tight end going down the seam or something - that way he's probably up against more power rushers than speed guys (although tbh once you get to the nfl that doesn really matter) - he'll be functional as a right tackle and probably not a trainwreck - i just think the opportunity cost of not playing him at guard is too big to play him at tackle because of how powerful he is

That's where we differ I guess. I think he can be good in pass protection, I think he can be an upgrade over Wagner in both pass and run at tacckle. But I do concur, he would be a monster at G. KO clone man. Even look at his measurable, eerily similar to KO

[rossihunter2]

10 minutes ago, raven94 said:

That's where we differ I guess. I think he can be good in pass protection, I think he can be an upgrade over Wagner in both pass and run at tacckle. But I do concur, he would be a monster at G. KO clone man. Even look at his measurable, eerily similar to KO

he just has such good technique once he latches on in pass pro that he can be dominant - the problem is the latching on... i really like him in pass protection but in smaller spaces on the interior where his bad kickstep wont cause him that many problems and he can just sink his hips and drive any tackles/guards - ironically he is less dominant as a run blocker but only because he doesnt finish his blocks - if he keeps working his feet through the block he again could be dominant

[raven94]

4 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

he just has such good technique once he latches on in pass pro that he can be dominant - the problem is the latching on... i really like him in pass protection but in smaller spaces on the interior where his bad kickstep wont cause him that many problems and he can just sink his hips and drive any tackles/guards - ironically he is less dominant as a run blocker but only because he doesnt finish his blocks - if he keeps working his feet through the block he again could be dominant

To be honest I feel like Cam's run blocking is great. He does pretty well in space for a big guy, he pulls well (yes a guard trait), yes when he latches on he's the best and I feel like that carries into the run game. From what I've seen when Cam doesn't do well in run blocking it's because he's confused on who or what his assignment is. I could be wrong but it seems to me like he's confused when he does bad. Anyway I think he can be just as good as Rick Wagner at the very least. I also like Cam because the rest of the tackles are so so. I would be happy with Taylor Moton in the 3rd just as well though. 

[ravensnation5220]

17 hours ago, raven94 said:

To be honest I feel like Cam's run blocking is great. He does pretty well in space for a big guy, he pulls well (yes a guard trait), yes when he latches on he's the best and I feel like that carries into the run game. From what I've seen when Cam doesn't do well in run blocking it's because he's confused on who or what his assignment is. I could be wrong but it seems to me like he's confused when he does bad. Anyway I think he can be just as good as Rick Wagner at the very least. I also like Cam because the rest of the tackles are so so. I would be happy with Taylor Moton in the 3rd just as well though. 

Ya I think cam can play right tackle too. Question is how comfortable is he there. Some players dont transition well left to right.

I really like Dion Dawkins. I think he moves much better and would be a perfect fit for us a right tackle. Gotta love those temple tough guys

[purpletide]

38 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Ya I think cam can play right tackle too. Question is how comfortable is he there. Some players dont transition well left to right.

I really like Dion Dawkins. I think he moves much better and would be a perfect fit for us a right tackle. Gotta love those temple tough guys

Yeah that's the problem we have with making Lewis fill in at RT, not going G to T but going left to right. I think Cam would be much better at guard because of his struggles with speed getting around him but that's not as much of a problem once he gets into the NFL.

[rossihunter2]

6 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Ya I think cam can play right tackle too. Question is how comfortable is he there. Some players dont transition well left to right.

I really like Dion Dawkins. I think he moves much better and would be a perfect fit for us a right tackle. Gotta love those temple tough guys

i really like dawkins as a potential right tackle - i just worry that we'd have to spend a 2nd rounder on him to get him when there might be better players available at that spot

[ravensnation5220]

15 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i really like dawkins as a potential right tackle - i just worry that we'd have to spend a 2nd rounder on him to get him when there might be better players available at that spot

Ya. That's the problem with oline this draft. If you want one your probably gonna have to overdraft to get a good one

[rossihunter2]

8 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Ya. That's the problem with oline this draft. If you want one your probably gonna have to overdraft to get a good one

I think there's some value mid-round guys once the draft settles down but going for a lineman on day 1 or 2 might be suicidal

[ravensnation5220]

2 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

I think there's some value mid-round guys once the draft settles down but going for a lineman on day 1 or 2 might be suicidal

There might be value but are there plug and play players???? I don't see any. Maybe at center but not as a right tackle, all those guys are more projects

[rossihunter2]

6 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

There might be value but are there plug and play players???? I don't see any. Maybe at center but not as a right tackle, all those guys are more projects

Honestly I'm not sure there's any true plug and play linemen in this draft apart from maybe feeney - every other lineman I see as needing a lot of coaching to fix significant issues to be a good day 1 starter

and not that we should rely on this but did anyone think Alex Lewis would be a day 1 starter?

Edited March 18 by rossihunter2

[ravensnation5220]

15 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

Honestly I'm not sure there's any true plug and play linemen in this draft apart from maybe feeney - every other lineman I see as needing a lot of coaching to fix significant issues to be a good day 1 starter

and not that we should rely on this but did anyone think Alex Lewis would be a day 1 starter?

I see most of the guys at the top as day 1 starters like lamp, Ellen and feeney 

You also have to remember last year was a much better draft for offensive lineman. There were great players at the top but it was also a very deep class as well so guys got overlooked. I doubt there's anyone like that in this year's class. Heck Lewis might have been a 3rd rounder for lineman this year

[rossihunter2]

4 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I see most of the guys at the top as day 1 starters like lamp, Ellen and feeney 

You also have to remember last year was a much better draft for offensive lineman. There were great players at the top but it was also a very deep class as well so guys got overlooked. I doubt there's anyone like that in this year's class. Heck Lewis might have been a 3rd rounder for lineman this year

i dunno - there's linemen i like throughout the middle rounds - i see a dearth of guys with 2nd round grades but a fair few worthy of 3rd, 4th and 5th round picks some of whom will go in the 2nd of course but others will be where there value dictates: pocic, dawkins, moton, asiata, orlosky, bisnowaty, roderick johnson (not sure about him anymore though), fuller, garcia, davenport, morgan, sharpe, maybe jon toth and jay guillermo - now not all of these guys are going to start but i think theres a decent chance that some of them can be impactful starters based off of their traits - guillermo for instance has many problems but i could see him outperforming his draft status and becoming a starting centre early in his career...

in terms of day 1 starters i wasnt suggesting that guys like lamp, bolles, robinson, feeney wouldnt start day 1 but that they werent as clear cut plug and play as any guys in previous years so the dropoff in terms of development and coaching is not as large as would historically be the case

[ravensnation5220]

13 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i dunno - there's linemen i like throughout the middle rounds - i see a dearth of guys with 2nd round grades but a fair few worthy of 3rd, 4th and 5th round picks some of whom will go in the 2nd of course but others will be where there value dictates: pocic, dawkins, moton, asiata, orlosky, bisnowaty, roderick johnson (not sure about him anymore though), fuller, garcia, davenport, morgan, sharpe, maybe jon toth and jay guillermo - now not all of these guys are going to start but i think theres a decent chance that some of them can be impactful starters based off of their traits - guillermo for instance has many problems but i could see him outperforming his draft status and becoming a starting centre early in his career...

in terms of day 1 starters i wasnt suggesting that guys like lamp, bolles, robinson, feeney wouldnt start day 1 but that they werent as clear cut plug and play as any guys in previous years so the dropoff in terms of development and coaching is not as large as would historically be the case

Ya this is all very true. I honestly think a lot of teams where scared to draft offensive lineman this year so they overpayed in free agency. I agree that there is still some solid guys in the 2nd and 3rd rounds that could be had though

[rossihunter2]

32 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Ya this is all very true. I honestly think a lot of teams where scared to draft offensive lineman this year so they overpayed in free agency. I agree that there is still some solid guys in the 2nd and 3rd rounds that could be had though

it may well be that teams get so scared of not getting one of the edge guys/cbs that they reach on them a little early when the cb /edge rusher runs happen which could leave a lineman or wide receiver to fall into a waiting team's lap - but yeah i think its much more likely that we end up with only a later round lineman

[raven94]

Has anyone thought of taking pocic and putting him at RT? Everyone says he's too long for C (I agree) but he could switch over to tackle where he did play for a season I believe

[Bruce_Almty]

ICYMI.

There's an interesting article over on Ravens Beatdown, Ravens will take an OT with the first pick in the 2017 draft , discussing the financial benefits of drafting a ROT (Ramcyzk, Bolles, Robinson)  in light of the Ricky Wagner // Riley Reiff $10mil/yr FA hauls. He goes on to suggest a Pat Elflein/Ethan Pocic center selection in the 3rd giving the Ravens a dominating, young and inexpensive O-line for the next few years given the Stanley // Lewis selections of last. The other 2 top 100 picks are devoted to edge rusher // CB // WR needs. 

Post your thoughts below.

Edited March 20 by Bruce_Almty

[jboy19]

3 hours ago, Bruce_Almty said:

ICYMI.

There's an interesting article over on Ravens Beatdown, Ravens will take an OT with the first pick in the 2017 draft , discussing the financial benefits of drafting a ROT (Ramcyzk, Bolles, Robinson)  in light of the Ricky Wagner // Riley Reiff $10mil/yr FA hauls. He goes on to suggest a Pat Elflein/Ethan Pocic center selection in the 3rd giving the Ravens a dominating, young and inexpensive O-line for the next few years given the Stanley // Lewis selections of last. The other 2 top 100 picks are devoted to edge rusher // CB // WR needs. 

Post your thoughts below.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Robinson, Ramczyk and Bolles were off the board at 16. Jacksonville really needs OL more than anything else, same with Indy, Cincy and the Chargers (Im sure theres more). OL getting overpaid in FA should probably lead to OL overdrafts. 

But I personally don't think the value is there to take one. On my "board" I have Bolles around 20, Ramczyk around 25, and Robinson around 35. 

[Adreme]

On 3/15/2017 at 8:13 PM, purpletide said:

I still think Lewis can make the move

The Ravens can not possiblydo anymore to show they are not moving Lewis to the right.  They say he does not look comfortable on the right and since they have the benefit of seeing him practice I am going to trust them. So right now it's draft a RT, draft a guard and move Yanda, sign a RT, or trust James Hurst.