Sami84

2017 O line

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I've completley stopped watching college football so to those who have been watching whos impressed you as a C or a Gaurd for instance..I think we should TRIPLE dip

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3 hours ago, Sami84 said:

I've completley stopped watching college football so to those who have been watching whos impressed you as a C or a Gaurd for instance..I think we should TRIPLE dip

We're gonna need a RT too. My favorite Center is Ohio state's Pat Elfein but people seem to put Ethan Pocic over him.

 

 

Edited by Cillmatic
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2 hours ago, Cillmatic said:

We're gonna need a RT too. My favorite Center is Ohio state's Pat Elfein but people seem to put Ethan Pocic over him.

 

 

 

who do each remind you of?

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8 hours ago, Cillmatic said:

We're gonna need a RT too. My favorite Center is Ohio state's Pat Elfein but people seem to put Ethan Pocic over him.

The issue I have with Pocic is he is 6'7". 

He's also a bit up and down.

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I've watched Pocic, Orlosky and Elflein. As far as tape goes, I can't chose between Orlosky and Elflein yet, but I put both of them before Pocic. However Elflein's more versatile, being able to play any spot on the interior. Couterpart is he won't be available with our second pick, while Orlosky may be there in the 3rd.

 

Assuming we resign Wagner, I don't think we should triple or even double dip. An elite C solves so much problems, and even if Lewis isn't perfect, he's holding well and is still a rookie. Give him time, it'll pay down the road.

 

As for now, I'd prefer to take Orlosky with our 2nd or 3rd (not sure yet where he'll go). I think we have three major needs: an EDGE, a DB, a C, so I'd take an EDGE or a CB in the first. 

Edited by Jacquouille
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I really like Ohio State's guard, Billy Price. He's a monster. Really good athlete for his size and considered the strongest player on the team. He could be the perfect replacement for KO. He could actually be a better guard than KO was.

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McGlinchey says he is returning to ND.. bad sign for those looking at the top of the draft for quality tackles. 

Edited by jboy19
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49 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

McGlinchey says he is returning to ND.. bad sign for those looking at the top of the draft for quality tackles. 

If we're considering looking for an OT, there's still a deep class. Bisnowaty, McDermot, Ramsczyk, Banner,... Haven't watched any at all but from what I'm reading there's some quality and depth. I do think Rick stays here however.

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1 hour ago, Jacquouille said:

If we're considering looking for an OT, there's still a deep class. Bisnowaty, McDermot, Ramsczyk, Banner,... Haven't watched any at all but from what I'm reading there's some quality and depth. I do think Rick stays here however.

I haven't looked too much at OL yet, but I'm big on Ramsczyk- think he'll be a late riser if he declares (which he has a weird backstory about wanting to stay close to home and going DII despite big program offers) He's my favorite OT by far and I think he'll test well at combine. As far as the other top guys like Bisnowaty, McDermott and Banner, I haven't checked them out much yet, but from what I've heard from scouts and draftniks, I'm glad we got Stanley last year. 

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On 10/3/2016 at 5:54 AM, Cillmatic said:

We're gonna need a RT too. My favorite Center is Ohio state's Pat Elfein but people seem to put Ethan Pocic over him.

 

 

i was putting pocic over elflein until this year. ive watched some elflein tape and im impressed, hes a hammer. i love watching him drop back in pass pro and anchor down, he sits stationary and knocks DTs backwards with his punch, while keeping his feet churning. the guy is impressive. although id like to see a lot more gap blocking from him, most of the film ive seen has a lot of stretch runs. 

pocic really may be too tall to play the interior in the nfl, same problem as alex lewis.

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On 10/5/2016 at 2:11 PM, Jacquouille said:

If we're considering looking for an OT, there's still a deep class. Bisnowaty, McDermot, Ramsczyk, Banner,... Haven't watched any at all but from what I'm reading there's some quality and depth. I do think Rick stays here however.

i think wagner is gone, hes regressed since the kubiak days. he isnt a gap/inside zone blocker, hes much better in the stretch because he just lacks the maul you want for our current system, hes been solid but inconsistent in pass pro, i think his foot is always gonna be a problem, and i think some team is gonna overpay him based on his pass protection, he may even get a shot at LT on the market from a desperate team. 

alex lewis on the other hand, looks like he could be too tall to play guard, however he does have some mauling ability, he just struggled to show it against DT's who out-leverage him, he will likely do better on the edge, and his nimble feet and solid length and really just natural tackle traits and ability make me think hes gonna take over next year as the RT. 

On 10/4/2016 at 5:07 AM, Jacquouille said:

 

 

Assuming we resign Wagner, I don't think we should triple or even double dip. An elite C solves so much problems, and even if Lewis isn't perfect, he's holding well and is still a rookie. Give him time, it'll pay down the road.

 

As for now, I'd prefer to take Orlosky with our 2nd or 3rd (not sure yet where he'll go). I think we have three major needs: an EDGE, a DB, a C, so I'd take an EDGE or a CB in the first. 

you said it in the first bolded line, an elite center goes a long way for this team, the run game and pass game both would improve tenfold with a guy like elflein and then the run and pass would feed off of eachother, our offense would just be much more consistent and methodical in all aspects. i havent looked into orlosky but im really impressed with elflein, and if were picking in the late teens-early 20s im absolutelely taking him, biggest hole on the team and getting the highest impact player there. id much rather have a blue chip center like elflein than a decent/above average edge rusher like a barnett or harris. you cant pass up on supreme talent just because another position is flashier but has an average selection. 

i may have a hard time picking elflein over tre'davious white, desmond king, jonathan allen or jabrill peppers, but if this year goes as we hope it does then they likely wont be in our range, and the other db's edge rushers that WILL be in our range dont really stand out or appeal like elflein does.

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10 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

you said it in the first bolded line, an elite center goes a long way for this team, the run game and pass game both would improve tenfold with a guy like elflein and then the run and pass would feed off of eachother, our offense would just be much more consistent and methodical in all aspects. i havent looked into orlosky but im really impressed with elflein, and if were picking in the late teens-early 20s im absolutelely taking him, biggest hole on the team and getting the highest impact player there. id much rather have a blue chip center like elflein than a decent/above average edge rusher like a barnett or harris. you cant pass up on supreme talent just because another position is flashier but has an average selection. 

i may have a hard time picking elflein over tre'davious white, desmond king, jonathan allen or jabrill peppers, but if this year goes as we hope it does then they likely wont be in our range, and the other db's edge rushers that WILL be in our range dont really stand out or appeal like elflein does.

Okay, that's where it gets interesting. I'm on the side that says we will be able to get a good edge rusher or CB in the first, and should focus our second on a C.

But as you said, Elflein will not be there for our 2nd pick, so we really must consider him heavily in the first. Now, if we get Smoot/King/Adams and then Orlosky I'm frontflipping. I do like Harris also, although his ceiling is lower than others.

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1 hour ago, Jacquouille said:

Okay, that's where it gets interesting. I'm on the side that says we will be able to get a good edge rusher or CB in the first, and should focus our second on a C.

But as you said, Elflein will not be there for our 2nd pick, so we really must consider him heavily in the first. Now, if we get Smoot/King/Adams and then Orlosky I'm frontflipping. I do like Harris also, although his ceiling is lower than others.

Who is Adams? Drawing a blank here lol.And yeah everyone has different philosophies. I personally prefer getting a flat out stud at a lesser position than a decent player at a flashy position. Thrtes just so many variables in the transition to the NFL and the most talented/hard working player has the best shot to not bust most of the time.

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8 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Who is Adams? Drawing a blank here lol.And yeah everyone has different philosophies. I personally prefer getting a flat out stud at a lesser position than a decent player at a flashy position. Thrtes just so many variables in the transition to the NFL and the most talented/hard working player has the best shot to not bust most of the time.

Jamaal Adams, S, LSU.

 

I just think this class is too good. There's just stud players all over the place, and the C class is deep, so I think it's the best way toward a homerun. 

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On 10/10/2016 at 2:29 AM, Jacquouille said:

Jamaal Adams, S, LSU.

 

I just think this class is too good. There's just stud players all over the place, and the C class is deep, so I think it's the best way toward a homerun. 

ahh gotcha. 

and yeah, like i said, we all got different philosophies. give me a zack martin, a pouncey twin, a CJ mosley, etc. over a guy like bruce irvin or will fuller. even if we can find a solid center or guard in the 2nd or 3rd, id take a bonafide stud over a guys whos just decent. 

i feel like the ravens have really gotten away from that and its part of why this team is on the downslide. lets say this year we went strictly BPA, then stanley is probably still our first pick, then after the 2 trade backs in the 2nd we probably take a michael thomas or nick martin, then in the 3rd we probably take darian thompson or kendall fuller, then the rest of the draft probably stays the same except for keenan reynolds.. 

now if our draft turned out: stanley, thomas/martin, thompson/fuller, young, henry, dixon, judon, _____, and canady, that wouldve been beautiful, and yea this is hindsight, but a lot of people would have said at the time that these guys were much closer to BPA than what we picked. while i like correa and liked him during the draft and im a huge supporter, i think we may have reached a bit and got enamored with his speed and desperately reached for our pass rush with both and him kaufusi(especially kaufusi, did not like the pick one bit, and even before the injury they said he looked like a total nonfactor).

but anyway.. what im getting at, is that we have strayed away from the drafting style that made us great for so long, and now were constantly getting enamored with specific guys and making picks that make us scratch our heads, and we are certainly selling out to try to address certain holes rather than loading up with young star talent and rounding out the roster in free agency, thats the winning formula we used and now we arent using it and our team is hurting because of this whole "we can get this guy later and he should be just fine" stuff instead of "this player sitting right in our laps is a surefire stud but this other guy may have a shot to be decent at a flashier position".

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5 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

ahh gotcha. 

and yeah, like i said, we all got different philosophies. give me a zack martin, a pouncey twin, a CJ mosley, etc. over a guy like bruce irvin or will fuller. even if we can find a solid center or guard in the 2nd or 3rd, id take a bonafide stud over a guys whos just decent. 

i feel like the ravens have really gotten away from that and its part of why this team is on the downslide. lets say this year we went strictly BPA, then stanley is probably still our first pick, then after the 2 trade backs in the 2nd we probably take a michael thomas or nick martin, then in the 3rd we probably take darian thompson or kendall fuller, then the rest of the draft probably stays the same except for keenan reynolds.. 

now if our draft turned out: stanley, thomas/martin, thompson/fuller, young, henry, dixon, judon, _____, and canady, that wouldve been beautiful, and yea this is hindsight, but a lot of people would have said at the time that these guys were much closer to BPA than what we picked. while i like correa and liked him during the draft and im a huge supporter, i think we may have reached a bit and got enamored with his speed and desperately reached for our pass rush with both and him kaufusi(especially kaufusi, did not like the pick one bit, and even before the injury they said he looked like a total nonfactor).

but anyway.. what im getting at, is that we have strayed away from the drafting style that made us great for so long, and now were constantly getting enamored with specific guys and making picks that make us scratch our heads, and we are certainly selling out to try to address certain holes rather than loading up with young star talent and rounding out the roster in free agency, thats the winning formula we used and now we arent using it and our team is hurting because of this whole "we can get this guy later and he should be just fine" stuff instead of "this player sitting right in our laps is a surefire stud but this other guy may have a shot to be decent at a flashier position".

It would be true if I wasn't this excited for the upcoming class, which is light years ahead of the 2016 except on the DL and at the top of the OT class. And while we do need a stud C, we also need a stud OLB and a good CB (I'll put the need for WR as a depth need). And I don't think the difference between Elflein is so great honestly. My ideal draft would have us taking Dawuane Smoot and then Orlosky, and believe me from then on we dominate those freaking trenches.

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13 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

It would be true if I wasn't this excited for the upcoming class, which is light years ahead of the 2016 except on the DL and at the top of the OT class. And while we do need a stud C, we also need a stud OLB and a good CB (I'll put the need for WR as a depth need). And I don't think the difference between Elflein is so great honestly. My ideal draft would have us taking Dawuane Smoot and then Orlosky, and believe me from then on we dominate those freaking trenches.

i think we need to wait and see with judon and correa honestly, now if some absolute monster falls to us then ill change my tune but if not, i really wanna see what happens with these guys. judon has looked like a natural, with some nfl weight training under his belt and some experience i think he could be really special, potentially the biggest steal of the entire draft, and correa's explosiveness and hustle and intensity are just unmatched, unless he is dumb as a box of rocks i dont see how he fails to eventually become a very good player, the biggest question is whether or not he is able to play outside or if he is stuck blitzing from the ILB spot. 

its just that the difference an unquestioned elite center could make for this team, its an exciting thought, to have west and dixon running behind a line that actually plows massive holes for them to run through, because both of them are gonna make guys miss, 20 yard runs would become a regular thing, and our edge blocking looks very promising as long as stanley returns and stays healthy. a solid center is nice, but an absolute monster with supreme IQ could be the difference between best run game in the league and sitting somewhere between 5 and 10. 

and by the way, im not arguing lol. i totally understand where ur coming from, i just think that with positional value we will struggle to find high end guys at those positions while the top guys will get passed up at positions we need and allow us to really strike gold. if were in the mid 20s and land elflein that is a no-question home run pick. 

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11 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i think we need to wait and see with judon and correa honestly, now if some absolute monster falls to us then ill change my tune but if not, i really wanna see what happens with these guys. judon has looked like a natural, with some nfl weight training under his belt and some experience i think he could be really special, potentially the biggest steal of the entire draft, and correa's explosiveness and hustle and intensity are just unmatched, unless he is dumb as a box of rocks i dont see how he fails to eventually become a very good player, the biggest question is whether or not he is able to play outside or if he is stuck blitzing from the ILB spot. 

its just that the difference an unquestioned elite center could make for this team, its an exciting thought, to have west and dixon running behind a line that actually plows massive holes for them to run through, because both of them are gonna make guys miss, 20 yard runs would become a regular thing, and our edge blocking looks very promising as long as stanley returns and stays healthy. a solid center is nice, but an absolute monster with supreme IQ could be the difference between best run game in the league and sitting somewhere between 5 and 10. 

and by the way, im not arguing lol. i totally understand where ur coming from, i just think that with positional value we will struggle to find high end guys at those positions while the top guys will get passed up at positions we need and allow us to really strike gold. if were in the mid 20s and land elflein that is a no-question home run pick. 

Arguing? No, I'm really appreciating that conversation bro.

I'm starting to think a mix of trades to get 3/4 picks in the 30/80 range would be the best combination. Try to get Elflein or Pocic, Jourdan Lewis, Carl Lawson and a WR (Kupp, Rudolph, Davis, Ford...). If we do that we're gone and nobody's catching us.

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How about Parker Collins from Appalachian St., coming from that offense you know he can run block and he's sort of known for being scrappy. I'm honestly not enamored by the top of the class of lineman at the moment. Elflein is the only center I've liked that is slated to go in the first two rounds. 

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The offensive tackle class is terrible. Mike McGlinchey is the only first round graded tackle I have and supposedly he is returning to Notre Dame. Cam Robinson has glaring off the field issues and Roderick Johnson's play has been horrific. Luckily, 2018 OT class is looking pretty good with Mcglinchey, Connor Williams from Texas (very underrated beast), and Mitch Hyatt from Clemson if we need to replace Wagner the year after this one.The center class is nice, with a three piece competition between Pocic, Eiflen, and Orlosky for the title of the best center. This would be the draft to take a center.

Edited by ravensnick
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I suspect we will focus on interior OL in this coming draft for numerous reasons. First, the tackle class is very underwhelming just as @ravensnick said. If we lose Wagner then Lewis likely slides to RT and this may very well be the plan. Second, that will open holes on our interior OL at LG but does it really? I think not because I then only see one hole and that's LG. I think we'll look to improve our center and we'll probably try to get someone as depth behind Yanda as he ages. Jensen will be an RFA after this year so we'll likely keep him around a little longer but both he and Urschel and I think Zuttah will all be free agents in 2018 so we will need guys behind them. I can see Zuttah slide over to LG if we desired, too, since it's a position he is familiar. 

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9 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I suspect we will focus on interior OL in this coming draft for numerous reasons. First, the tackle class is very underwhelming just as @ravensnick said. If we lose Wagner then Lewis likely slides to RT and this may very well be the plan. Second, that will open holes on our interior OL at LG but does it really? I think not because I then only see one hole and that's LG. I think we'll look to improve our center and we'll probably try to get someone as depth behind Yanda as he ages. Jensen will be an RFA after this year so we'll likely keep him around a little longer but both he and Urschel and I think Zuttah will all be free agents in 2018 so we will need guys behind them. I can see Zuttah slide over to LG if we desired, too, since it's a position he is familiar. 

Bad thing is, the upcoming FA center class is very weak. There's literally no one out there. Here's my bet, we probably go out and sign a LG. There are some pretty good guards out there. I think Zuttah is on the outs given that the team would probably want a new Center, this is where I think we will spend our 2nd or 3rd round pick. I think LG and Pass Rusher is where we go hard after. Ron Leary, TJ Lang, or Evan Mathis are guys I can see us signing. 

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21 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Bad thing is, the upcoming FA center class is very weak. There's literally no one out there. Here's my bet, we probably go out and sign a LG. There are some pretty good guards out there. I think Zuttah is on the outs given that the team would probably want a new Center, this is where I think we will spend our 2nd or 3rd round pick. I think LG and Pass Rusher is where we go hard after. Ron Leary, TJ Lang, or Evan Mathis are guys I can see us signing. 

Not sure I agree here but it's possible we sign a free agent center should one be available we like. I personally think we go to the draft for it because Zuttah has looked better lately and he can play LG so if we draft a center Zuttah can slide over and we keep continuity on the OL. That said, maybe we go free agency to fill a need but we'll see. I'm not sure I can agree with that yet. 

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37 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Not sure I agree here but it's possible we sign a free agent center should one be available we like. I personally think we go to the draft for it because Zuttah has looked better lately and he can play LG so if we draft a center Zuttah can slide over and we keep continuity on the OL. That said, maybe we go free agency to fill a need but we'll see. I'm not sure I can agree with that yet. 

I won't say which one of course because I don't know, but I'd be surprised if we don't sign a veteran at LG or C.  I'm convinced Lewis will be taking over the right side, as you said above.  Fill one via FA and one through the draft.  With Zuttah's improvement, it wouldn't shock me to see him stick around for another year though.

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I was actually having some thoughts on getting offensive linemen in the first two rounds, especially a center. A great offensive line would do wonders for the team, maybe more so than a quarterback or a big time wide receiver.

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25 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I won't say which one of course because I don't know, but I'd be surprised if we don't sign a veteran at LG or C.  I'm convinced Lewis will be taking over the right side, as you said above.  Fill one via FA and one through the draft.  With Zuttah's improvement, it wouldn't shock me to see him stick around for another year though.

I think it depends on what happens from here to the end of the year because if guys get healthy it may be hard to justify. If we're talking a cheap veteran like a Ducasse type then yeah but if we're talking an Eric Weddle signing then I doubt it. 

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1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

I won't say which one of course because I don't know, but I'd be surprised if we don't sign a veteran at LG or C.  I'm convinced Lewis will be taking over the right side, as you said above.  Fill one via FA and one through the draft.  With Zuttah's improvement, it wouldn't shock me to see him stick around for another year though.

I think Lewis will be put at RT as well. He's a solid pass blocker and has plenty of potential at run blocking. Rick Wagner broke out his 2nd year and I think the team would be hoping the same for Lewis. He's surely further along the curve than most young OLs. Him and Stanley would give us a good and young tandem of tackles. Reps he's getting now should help. Zuttah has done well but don't you think the team would like to upgrade? I personally think Zuttah sticks it out for the off-season but will have to compete with a draft pick. Just don't know what you're going to get from Zuttah IMO. I think we just flat out would like to throw out a great OL out there. I think we fill in LG via FA. 

1 hour ago, GrimCoconut said:

Not sure I agree here but it's possible we sign a free agent center should one be available we like. I personally think we go to the draft for it because Zuttah has looked better lately and he can play LG so if we draft a center Zuttah can slide over and we keep continuity on the OL. That said, maybe we go free agency to fill a need but we'll see. I'm not sure I can agree with that yet. 

At the moment I just don't see anyone out there worth getting at Center, I think we might be forced to use a draft pick at one of the guard/center spots and center seems very likely.. I think with the young pass rushers we have in Judon, Correa, Smith, that we would prefer to just outright sign a pass rusher. It's a position that I expect we fill in via FA along with drafting one early. Just think one of the G/C spots have to be filled in via the draft, while Zuttah is an option at C, I just think the team would prefer to move on from him overall if he gets beat out by the draft pick. A Center should be there in the 2nd or 3rd round, IMO it just makes sense that we go after one via the draft because FA seems very limited in terms of free agent Centers. 

Edited by PurpleCity5
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