2017 first round Corner back

[ravensnation5220]

1 minute ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I'm not sure white is a nickel corner. A lot of successful outside cbs are 5'10" and thags because the lower center of gravity allows them to stick better and also recover quicker. My favorite example is pat pete, hell of a corner and athlete but he's big and tall and often gets caught on double moves and comeback routes because he's got a slower cut than guys that are 2-3 inches shorter. 

I won't argue about king though. I'm torn between the 2 I just happen to think he excels more as a safety than a corner, though I think he's a great fit at either spot.

Has king even played safety though. All the film ive seen from him hes been typically on the outside

[ravensnation5220]

6 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

They had advantages that most teams don't have though so it works for them. If we had an elite pass rush or a clear cut top safety tandem like Denver or seattle, respectively, then we could do that.

Seattle runs almost purely zone with bump and run so it's not like they were just sticking like glue to receivers keeping them hemmed up at the line and their safeties and linebackers all played a huge part in their pass defenses, and Denver can get away with that risky play because their front seven combined with wade Phillips scheming is hell for a qb. Chris Harris is my favorite cb in the league because he's diverse, so he does a fair bit of the kind of stuff I'm talking about, he just also happens to be able to press fairly well.

I get what you're saying though, I just think our personnel is far from being able to do that and were better off with guys who can stick to receivers downfield and jump routes, constant press coverage is very risky with no pass rush.

I think thats the defensive mold were trying to create here. Which is why i strongly beleive well take a pass rusher in the first. Biscotti made that clear last year. We need more young rushers. Well..2017 is the year to do it

[PurpleCity5]

On 10/19/2016 at 5:15 PM, BmoreBird22 said:

There are some scouts who do not like Juju Smith-Schuster because he goes to USC. It's a legit concern until a USC WR succeeds and justifies his draft position. Some schools systems just don't prepare them well. 

I also truly do not like Baylor offensive players and so far they're kinda just average players in the NFL.

Lately they have panned out well. Corey Coleman, Kendall Wright and Josh Gordon(Yes, he has his personal issues, that doesn't take away the fact that on the field, he's a stud) turned out well. I'm fine with a Baylor receiver if the guy is good. 

[BmoreBird22]

8 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Lately they have panned out well. Corey Coleman, Kendall Wright and Josh Gordon(Yes, he has his personal issues, that doesn't take away the fact that on the field, he's a stud) turned out well. I'm fine with a Baylor receiver if the guy is good. 

Way too early to tell on Coleman. He is, however, doing vastly better than I anticipated. He's pretty much a one trick pony, but he's doing it well from those two games.

Kendall Wright had one good season and then fell to third on the depth chart, but it seems like he's fourth on the pecking order for targets. He's regressed majorly.

Josh Gordon is definitely a good one.

[PurpleCity5]

4 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Way too early to tell on Coleman. He is, however, doing vastly better than I anticipated. He's pretty much a one trick pony, but he's doing it well from those two games.

Kendall Wright had one good season and then fell to third on the depth chart, but it seems like he's fourth on the pecking order for targets. He's regressed majorly.

Josh Gordon is definitely a good one.

I don't think you can call him a one trick pony given that his year was derailed from injury. First two games he was doing better than any other WR in his class. I don't think a guy who isn't of Coleman's ability could produce those two games.

Kendall Wright has declined but he is working his way back from injury, with that said I would consider at least one 1,000 yards success for a WR. He's been struggling with health but when he's 100% he's a valuable asset. Consider this, the Ravens have drafted only 1 WR who has hit 1,000 yards(Torrey Smith) and he only did it once.

 

Edited October 21, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I don't think you can call him a one trick pony given that his year was derailed from injury. First two games he was doing better than any other WR in his class. I don't think a guy who isn't of Coleman's ability could produce those two games.

Kendall Wright has declined but he is working his way back from injury, with that said I would consider at least one 1,000 yards success for a WR. He's been struggling with health but when he's 100% he's a valuable asset. Consider this, the Ravens have drafted only 1 WR who has hit 1,000 yards(Torrey Smith) and he only did it once.

 

I say Coleman is a one trick pony because he is pretty much a vertical threat who can outleap defenders or just simply get behind them. Josh Gordon is a lot like that. Those two just know how to get behind a defense and they do it an elite level, so far.

With Wright, if I'm taking him at 20, I don't want him falling to third on the depth chart or regressing statistically for two straight years. Had he not had his big game in his last outing, we probably wouldn't even mention him.

[JoeyFlex5]

On 10/20/2016 at 11:43 PM, ravensnation5220 said:

I think thats the defensive mold were trying to create here. Which is why i strongly beleive well take a pass rusher in the first. Biscotti made that clear last year. We need more young rushers. Well..2017 is the year to do it

the funny thing is... this could actually be another year we dont find a pass rusher simply because the db class is absolutely loaded. best cb class ive seen in a long time, maybe ever.

[JoeyFlex5]

On 10/20/2016 at 11:40 PM, ravensnation5220 said:

Has king even played safety though. All the film ive seen from him hes been typically on the outside

no he doesnt, but his skillset looks like a great ballhawking safety. he would do well at corner, no doubting it, but the way he anticipates the throw and plays the ball is special, in the NFL qbs will just not look his way at cb, but if hes a FS they have no choice but to throw in his area sometimes and he would get his hand on a lot of balls playing there. as a cb he reminds me of chris harris jr who is my favorite cb in the nfl, he isnt the big long press corner but he is still very physical and tough and still plays big while not having that slight clumsiness that the really tall corners tend to have.

[JoeyFlex5]

13 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I say Coleman is a one trick pony because he is pretty much a vertical threat who can outleap defenders or just simply get behind them. Josh Gordon is a lot like that. Those two just know how to get behind a defense and they do it an elite level, so far.

With Wright, if I'm taking him at 20, I don't want him falling to third on the depth chart or regressing statistically for two straight years. Had he not had his big game in his last outing, we probably wouldn't even mention him.

coleman is currently a one trick pony but his skillset suggests he has tons of room to become much more than that. he was my favorite wr in this class because i love small speedy wr's who have ball skills like theyre 6'4", gives you the best of both worlds, i think coleman is gonna give us headaches for years to come. 

ill agree about baylor offensive players though, not a fan. 

[PurpleCity5]

14 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I say Coleman is a one trick pony because he is pretty much a vertical threat who can outleap defenders or just simply get behind them. Josh Gordon is a lot like that. Those two just know how to get behind a defense and they do it an elite level, so far.

With Wright, if I'm taking him at 20, I don't want him falling to third on the depth chart or regressing statistically for two straight years. Had he not had his big game in his last outing, we probably wouldn't even mention him.

Coleman has made pretty good YAC plays too. I do agree that he needs to show a bit more than being a verticle guy, but I really project him as a guy who is going to make a good impact.

I agree on the idea that Wright has not lived up the 1st round bill, but injuries has really played a role in it much more than his skill set. He was banged up last year and the year before he just couldn't see the field. Same story this year. I just don't think you can put that on Baylor's program. 

[BmoreBird22]

7 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

coleman is currently a one trick pony but his skillset suggests he has tons of room to become much more than that. he was my favorite wr in this class because i love small speedy wr's who have ball skills like theyre 6'4", gives you the best of both worlds, i think coleman is gonna give us headaches for years to come. 

ill agree about baylor offensive players though, not a fan. 

 

6 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Coleman has made pretty good YAC plays too. I do agree that he needs to show a bit more than being a verticle guy, but I really project him as a guy who is going to make a good impact.

I agree on the idea that Wright has not lived up the 1st round bill, but injuries has really played a role in it much more than his skill set. He was banged up last year and the year before he just couldn't see the field. Same story this year. I just don't think you can put that on Baylor's program. 

With Coleman, much like Mike Evans, I didn't anticipate his one trick would do well in the NFL. Although, we only really saw it work against the Ravens and really it was against Shareece Wright. 

To this point, he's pretty much a boundary receiver with route running skills that need major refinement and catching technique that needs an overhaul over the middle.

And I do put that on Baylor because they run a spread system that doesn't emphasize route running or the usage of a wide route tree. Oh, you can run really fast? We're gonna use you primarily on vertical routes and smoke screens and nothing else. These kids have played like 17 years by the time they reach the NFL and if they haven't played in a pro style system before the NFL, it's not exactly always an easy transition to start learning to do everything for an offense.

[ravensnation5220]

12 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

no he doesnt, but his skillset looks like a great ballhawking safety. he would do well at corner, no doubting it, but the way he anticipates the throw and plays the ball is special, in the NFL qbs will just not look his way at cb, but if hes a FS they have no choice but to throw in his area sometimes and he would get his hand on a lot of balls playing there. as a cb he reminds me of chris harris jr who is my favorite cb in the nfl, he isnt the big long press corner but he is still very physical and tough and still plays big while not having that slight clumsiness that the really tall corners tend to have.

I dont think being a safety is really all about reading the qbs eyes. In the nfl they always look off the safety and you have to stay disciplined. Just because he can read and react doesnt mean he'll pan out as a free safety. I also dont think he has the speed to go sideline to sideline and cover ground like a safety is supposed to. I think hes a corner all the way. I can see the traits that you would like but i just dont see that ability to cover ground sideline to sideline from king. Maybe because hes never been in that position? Idk i just dont see it

[JoeyFlex5]

12 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I dont think being a safety is really all about reading the qbs eyes. In the nfl they always look off the safety and you have to stay disciplined. Just because he can read and react doesnt mean he'll pan out as a free safety. I also dont think he has the speed to go sideline to sideline and cover ground like a safety is supposed to. I think hes a corner all the way. I can see the traits that you would like but i just dont see that ability to cover ground sideline to sideline from king. Maybe because hes never been in that position? Idk i just dont see it

where did reading the qb's eyes even come from? i said nothing about that. i said he anticipates and plays the ball well. hes an excellent "top-down" player, meaning he is at his best and forces turnovers when he keeps the play in front of him, thats a safety trait because most coverage a safety does is top-down. 

also, a cb almost always needs to be faster than a safety, they need to run step for step with wr's, mirror them, and even have the explosiveness to recover when they give up a little separation on a good cut. 

[Robbyrobbass]

On 10/18/2016 at 8:04 PM, Cillmatic said:

Marlon Humphrey's the best CB of this class, no debate. He's like Jimmy Smith on steroids.

So you're  saying  he won't  pass a Random  urinalysis ?

[JO_75]

On 10/18/2016 at 9:02 PM, BmoreBird22 said:

He might not even be a top 5 CB in this class. It's loaded with corners.

Yeah to me, I feel it's deep enough that we could get someone in the second and don't have to necessarily get one in the first. I'll go even as far as saying third and fourth round as far as how deep CB is this year. 

Some latest news says Florida will lose their top two corners Jalen Tabor and Quincy Wilson who are both expected to enter the 2017 Draft.

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, JO_75 said:

Yeah to me, I feel it's deep enough that we could get someone in the second and don't have to necessarily get one in the first. I'll go even as far as saying third and fourth round as far as how deep CB is this year. 

Some latest news says Florida will lose their top two corners Jalen Tabor and Quincy Wilson who are both expected to enter the 2017 Draft.

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill

Not a surprise both would leave. Both top 20 players.

[ravensnation5220]

I feel like it would be impossible to rank theses corners lol. There are so many who are so close in terms of talent. I guess it all depends on what type of corner youd prefer. Looking at the list though.....jeeze....there are about 10 guys who could be worth of going in the first round. Its unreal

 

[ravensnation5220]

Are there any stats that show completions allowed, yards allowed and the amount of penalties each player has against corners in college?

[DomMcRaven]

14 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I feel like it would be impossible to rank theses corners lol. There are so many who are so close in terms of talent. I guess it all depends on what type of corner youd prefer. Looking at the list though.....jeeze....there are about 10 guys who could be worth of going in the first round. Its unreal

 

If this is the case (which I'm not doubting by the way), I wonder what the Live Draft thread will be if Ozzie decides to not draft a CB in the first round lol. 

[Jacquouille]

2 hours ago, DomMcRaven said:

If this is the case (which I'm not doubting by the way), I wonder what the Live Draft thread will be if Ozzie decides to not draft a CB in the first round lol. 

I wouldn't care. It's so deep there will be 1St round talent on the second. 

[ravensnation5220]

4 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

I wouldn't care. It's so deep there will be 1St round talent on the second. 

Ya thats what im thinking. I wouldnt mind going pass rusher corner in rounds 1 and 2 respectively. Who do you think could fall to the second round? Im thinking gareon conley or tankersly would be solid picks

[Jacquouille]

9 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Ya thats what im thinking. I wouldnt mind going pass rusher corner in rounds 1 and 2 respectively. Who do you think could fall to the second round? Im thinking gareon conley or tankersly would be solid picks

Definitely Tankersley, Cam Sutton, probably Jourdan Lewis and Tre'davious White, Adoree Jackson if he declares, potentially Humphrey as I read that scouts find him too stiff. Probably one of the OSU CB's but I'm not sure, I think it's one of those cases where a player isn't talked about a lot by the media but teams definitely have their eyes on them. There's also some 3rd round guys like Cutrer, Awuzie, Summers that I would take before Artie Burns who ended up 1St round. And there's still a few intriguing guys that I have to watch lol.

[BmoreBird22]

7 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

Definitely Tankersley, Cam Sutton, probably Jourdan Lewis and Tre'davious White, Adoree Jackson if he declares, potentially Humphrey as I read that scouts find him too stiff. Probably one of the OSU CB's but I'm not sure, I think it's one of those cases where a player isn't talked about a lot by the media but teams definitely have their eyes on them. There's also some 3rd round guys like Cutrer, Awuzie, Summers that I would take before Artie Burns who ended up 1St round. And there's still a few intriguing guys that I have to watch lol.

He's probably not in second round consideration.

[Jacquouille]

15 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

He's probably not in second round consideration.

He definitely should be, I already had an early 2nd grade on him last year and according to the draftbreakdown podcast he was absolutely balling before the injury. We'll just have to monitor how he's recovering. If we take him in the second I'd be really really happy, him opposite Jimmy will be a nightmare for opposing offense. I'd take him before Tankersley for example.

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, Jacquouille said:

He definitely should be, I already had an early 2nd grade on him last year and according to the draftbreakdown podcast he was absolutely balling before the injury. We'll just have to monitor how he's recovering. If we take him in the second I'd be really really happy, him opposite Jimmy will be a nightmare for opposing offense. I'd take him before Tankersley for example.

Maybe I haven't paid much attention to him, but I know Matt Miller hasn't said a word about him and I know Ford worked him in the VT-UT game.

[Jacquouille]

59 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Maybe I haven't paid much attention to him, but I know Matt Miller hasn't said a word about him and I know Ford worked him in the VT-UT game.

Yeah they said he had one bad play and it was biting on a double mode against Ford (he still recovered btw).

[Cillmatic]

I've been convinced. Sidney Jones is the best CB of the draft.

[BmoreBird22]

5 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

Yeah they said he had one bad play and it was biting on a double mode against Ford (he still recovered btw).

If it's the play I'm thinking of, he got absolutely smoked and had his ankles broken, but Jerrod Evans put it too far out. Easy 80+ yard touchdown.

I seem to remember it being a rough night for Sutton. Ford had a big game.

[Jacquouille]

10 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

If it's the play I'm thinking of, he got absolutely smoked and had his ankles broken, but Jerrod Evans put it too far out. Easy 80+ yard touchdown.

I seem to remember it being a rough night for Sutton. Ford had a big game.

I read that they didn't go against each other very much in that game, so maybe Ford had a big game but that doesn't mean Sutton had a bad one. 

On the one play, I recall Evans actually didn't loft it enough and it ended up being broken up because Sutton had time to recover but yes it could have gone long. Again, it was apparently the only play of the season where he got handled.

[BmoreBird22]

5 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

I read that they didn't go against each other very much in that game, so maybe Ford had a big game but that doesn't mean Sutton had a bad one. 

On the one play, I recall Evans actually didn't loft it enough and it ended up being broken up because Sutton had time to recover but yes it could have gone long. Again, it was apparently the only play of the season where he got handled.

I'd have to go back and look, but Ford did much of his work off the right side, so unless they were moving Sutton away from Ford to avoid the match up.

I don't exactly remember; it was a bad pass on a play that should have been a score.